Tugging on Superman's Cape

[konradv]

How many Muslims have you seen condemning the Paris attacks?

#NotInMyName: Muslims condemn attacks in Paris - CNN.com

 

[Mac1958]

So the question that is presented to a more advanced civilization is, how you defeat an enemy that is both modern/tech savvy and absolutely unafraid to die?

You don't do it by providing them with more allies.

Nor do you do it by fighting among yourselves.
.

 

[Sallow]

Don't forget they just killed a Chinese hostage.

I accept correction. They're not just trying to piss off the West. My central point stands, however. Over-reaction like we're seeing from Trump et al. is counter-productive.

It also clouds the root cause, which is essentially western imperialism.

 

[konradv]

So the question that is presented to a more advanced civilization is, how you defeat an enemy that is both modern/tech savvy and absolutely unafraid to die?

You don't do it by providing them with more allies.

Nor do you do it by fighting among yourselves.

Something Trump et al. need to learn before they lead us into WW III.

 

[konradv]

Don't forget they just killed a Chinese hostage.

I accept correction. They're not just trying to piss off the West. My central point stands, however. Over-reaction like we're seeing from Trump et al. is counter-productive.

It also clouds the root cause, which is essentially western imperialism.

Not the point of the OP at all. Regardless of the root cause, we need to avoid the creation of new enemies.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

When you consider the recent actions of ISIL, it makes one wonder what their strategy/endgame is. They've bombed a Russian airliner, attacked the French in Paris and the threatened to extend their terrorist campaign to D.C. What possible sense does it make for an organization with a tenuous hold on a piece of ME desert to make enemies of the world's largest militaries? The easy answer is that they're crazy and we need to kill them all. While both of those options may be true the question remains, "what possible upside do they see?"

IMO, they know their following in the Muslim world is very small. Most Muslims are like you and your neighbors, they just want to go about their lives in peace. Turning this situation around is the only way they have of establishing the caliphate, given their numbers and relative weakness in a conventional military sense. To accomplish this they have to provoke an over-reaction in the non-Muslim world that makes suspects of all the followers of Islam.

In recent days we've seen people falling all over themselves to provide them with what they need. Presidential candidates and governors of some states are labeling refugees as terrorist plants, talking about shutting down mosques and not allowing them to settle in the states. It plays into the hands of the terrorists. It allows them to say that Muslims will never be accepted and that jihad is the only answer. It aids in the radicalization of Muslim youth, already marginalized, poverty-stricken and poorly educated, both in their home countries and in many places in the diaspora.

This isn't a plea to "be nice" to terrorists in the hope that they'll think better of us. This is a warning that lumping all Muslims together will only increase the radical tendencies of what is right now a very small proportion of the Islamic world. ISIL and Al Qaeda realize this this and, therefore, are going out of their way to "tug on Superman's cape" in hopes of a backlash from the West that galvanizes Muslims around the world into starting Armageddon and hastening the creation of a new caliphate. Don't fall for the rhetoric. It's what they want. The danger isn't that we'll be letting terrorists in, but that we'll be creating more among the Muslims already here.

I've been finding ISIS especially worrisome because unlike classical terrorists fighting for a cause and attacking those who seem at least casually their enemies, ISIS' targetting is so haphazard you could fairly call it schitzophrenic. Makes them extra dangerous because all our training was developed to predict conventional enemies, not crazy ones.

With threats against NYC and DC I hope law enforcement and intelligence are reaching out to organized crime ala the Mafia in WWII and making deals they'll turn a blind eye to comparatively minor criminal ops in exchange for actionable intelligence on any terrorist operations. Then there's all the gangs and general underworld. Vast resources to tap for street-level intelligence. 'Tell us about some suspicious new arrivals in your territory and we'll look the other way to drug dealing, rackets, prostitution for x length of time. Absolutely worth doing.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

When you consider the recent actions of ISIL, it makes one wonder what their strategy/endgame is. They've bombed a Russian airliner, attacked the French in Paris and the threatened to extend their terrorist campaign to D.C. What possible sense does it make for an organization with a tenuous hold on a piece of ME desert to make enemies of the world's largest militaries? The easy answer is that they're crazy and we need to kill them all. While both of those options may be true the question remains, "what possible upside do they see?"

IMO, they know their following in the Muslim world is very small. Most Muslims are like you and your neighbors, they just want to go about their lives in peace. Turning this situation around is the only way they have of establishing the caliphate, given their numbers and relative weakness in a conventional military sense. To accomplish this they have to provoke an over-reaction in the non-Muslim world that makes suspects of all the followers of Islam.

In recent days we've seen people falling all over themselves to provide them with what they need. Presidential candidates and governors of some states are labeling refugees as terrorist plants, talking about shutting down mosques and not allowing them to settle in the states. It plays into the hands of the terrorists. It allows them to say that Muslims will never be accepted and that jihad is the only answer. It aids in the radicalization of Muslim youth, already marginalized, poverty-stricken and poorly educated, both in their home countries and in many places in the diaspora.

This isn't a plea to "be nice" to terrorists in the hope that they'll think better of us. This is a warning that lumping all Muslims together will only increase the radical tendencies of what is right now a very small proportion of the Islamic world. ISIL and Al Qaeda realize this this and, therefore, are going out of their way to "tug on Superman's cape" in hopes of a backlash from the West that galvanizes Muslims around the world into starting Armageddon and hastening the creation of a new caliphate. Don't fall for the rhetoric. It's what they want. The danger isn't that we'll be letting terrorists in, but that we'll be creating more among the Muslims already here.

When you consider the recent actions of ISIL, it makes one wonder what their strategy/endgame is. They've bombed a Russian airliner, attacked the French in Paris and the threatened to extend their terrorist campaign to D.C. What possible sense does it make for an organization with a tenuous hold on a piece of ME desert to make enemies of the world's largest militaries? The easy answer is that they're crazy and we need to kill them all. While both of those options may be true the question remains, "what possible upside do they see?"

IMO, they know their following in the Muslim world is very small. Most Muslims are like you and your neighbors, they just want to go about their lives in peace. Turning this situation around is the only way they have of establishing the caliphate, given their numbers and relative weakness in a conventional military sense. To accomplish this they have to provoke an over-reaction in the non-Muslim world that makes suspects of all the followers of Islam.

In recent days we've seen people falling all over themselves to provide them with what they need. Presidential candidates and governors of some states are labeling refugees as terrorist plants, talking about shutting down mosques and not allowing them to settle in the states. It plays into the hands of the terrorists. It allows them to say that Muslims will never be accepted and that jihad is the only answer. It aids in the radicalization of Muslim youth, already marginalized, poverty-stricken and poorly educated, both in their home countries and in many places in the diaspora.

This isn't a plea to "be nice" to terrorists in the hope that they'll think better of us. This is a warning that lumping all Muslims together will only increase the radical tendencies of what is right now a very small proportion of the Islamic world. ISIL and Al Qaeda realize this this and, therefore, are going out of their way to "tug on Superman's cape" in hopes of a backlash from the West that galvanizes Muslims around the world into starting Armageddon and hastening the creation of a new caliphate. Don't fall for the rhetoric. It's what they want. The danger isn't that we'll be letting terrorists in, but that we'll be creating more among the Muslims already here.

Correct.

Most on the right are responding exactly as the terrorists wish.

 

[BlindBoo]

How many Muslims have you seen condemning the Paris attacks?

Leaders of several Muslim-majority nationsalso spoke out. Iranian president Hassan Rouhani called the attacks a “crime against humanity,” Qatari foreign minister Khaled al-Attiyah described them as “heinous,” and Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister declared they were “in violation and contravention of all ethics, morals and religions.” Saudi Arabia’s highest religious body also spoke out, saying“terrorists are not sanctioned by Islam and these acts are contrary to values of mercy it brought to the world.”

Joko Widodo, president of Indonesia — the largest Muslim nation population-wise — said “Indonesia condemns the violence that took place in Paris.”

In the United States, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a Muslim social justice group, quickly issued a press release rejecting terrorism —

Muslims Around The World Condemn Paris Attacks Claimed By ISIS

 

[BlindBoo]

Silence is approval. And the silence by Muslims about what is being done in the name of their religion is deafening.

A. Not all Muslims are silent.

B. You're falling for ISIS' trap.

Just like the silence from the far left drones on Obama's illegal wars..

 

[easyt65]

'They're small, insignificant, don't have a large following'
'Our responses will only antagonize them and create further hatred and violence'
'etc....

'SMALL / MINORITY'
- Hitler / Nazi Germany was small, had a small following, and they nearly successfully conquered all of Europe, murdered MILLIONS, and - if not for over-reaching - may have been able to make a real run at conquering the world.
- Afghanis were a bunch of poppy-growing, rock-hut living camel jockeys who kicked Russia's ass and drove them out of Afghanistan
- ISIS just 'announced its presence with authority', proving Obama doesn't know what the hell he is talking about ('JV Team' / 'Contained') by inflicting the biggest attack on France since WWII.

Everything Liberals THINK or THOUGHT they knew should go out the window! Obama used this same mentality and ended up thinking they are not a threat, are a JV team, and we have them 'contained'. Ummmm, NO, You DON'T!

'PC' is one of the BIGGEST threats to this nation and has been eating us away like cancer! The ide that ANYTHING WE ARE DOING is causing Islamic Extremists to want to kill us, is in any way JUSTIFICATION for them to do what they are doing is MORONIC!
We went from being victimized, pissed off Americans the day after 9/11/01 to the point today that we are being told to walk on eggshells so as not to 'offend the Islamic Extremists'! F* That!

Our embrace of 'PC' and teaching our kids we have to walk around like wusses so as not to offend the world has also resulted in bringing up little 'BI@TCHES' like the protestors at Mizzou...who demanded the dean of the college resign because someone OFF CAMPUS hurled a racist slur at a student (never proved) and other B$ that could not be proved! These kids are so freakin' TWISTED and self-centered that they actually COMPLAINED that their 'limelight' had been stolen by the 150+ Parisians who had the NERVE to die and the other 130+ that had the NERVE to be seriously wounded in a terrorist attack while they were trying to have their wuss-fest protest! These kids were calling others 'racist' and demanding 'safe zones' while segregating their own movement, demanding ALL BLACK safe zones. WTF?!
- Kids, grow the F* UP! In life, not everyone gets a trophy, life is hard, it is not fair, and you do not have the right NOT to be offended. And if you were one of my kids and complained about the events in Paris being an unfair inconvenience' for you I would drag you out of college, beat your ass, and put you to work!

You can not CONTAIN EVIL...I'm not sure it can even be defeated, but I do know it must constantly be BEATEN BACK! It does not care about 'PC', if you are nice to it or not, and isn't just happy to SHARE what you have - it wants you DEAD and wants what you have!

The same Liberals who are saying we aren't the nation's policemen are now demanding we be the world's patsy...refuge...even if it costs us our national security and American lives. Syrians - military age males - are coming to the US and demanding WE go to their home and fight for them...and Liberals are suddenly happy with that! F* THAT!

Obama is an ignorant LOSER who has sought to contain the 'evil' and refuses to change course. He is intent on Importing terror, ignoring the threats and facts. According to reports he is ignoring the FBI, CIA, and DHS about terrorist threats and He is ignoring his military leaders. He has the United States slowly committing suicide...or worse. We are the proverbial frogs in the pot of hot water, and Obama is continually turning up the heat.

 

[konradv]

'They're small, insignificant, don't have a large following'
'Our responses will only antagonize them and create further hatred and violence'
'etc....

'SMALL / MINORITY'
- Hitler / Nazi Germany was small, had a small following, and they nearly successfully conquered all of Europe, murdered MILLIONS, and - if not for over-reaching - may have been able to make a real run at conquering the world.
- Afghanis were a bunch of poppy-growing, rock-hut living camel jockeys who kicked Russia's ass and drove them out of Afghanistan
- ISIS just 'announced its presence with authority', proving Obama doesn't know what the hell he is talking about ('JV Team' / 'Contained') by inflicting the biggest attack on France since WWII.

Everything Liberals THINK or THOUGHT they knew should go out the window! Obama used this same mentality and ended up thinking they are not a threat, are a JV team, and we have them 'contained'. Ummmm, NO, You DON'T!

'PC' is one of the BIGGEST threats to this nation and has been eating us away like cancer! The ide that ANYTHING WE ARE DOING is causing Islamic Extremists to want to kill us, is in any way JUSTIFICATION for them to do what they are doing is MORONIC!
We went from being victimized, pissed off Americans the day after 9/11/01 to the point today that we are being told to walk on eggshells so as not to 'offend the Islamic Extremists'! F* That!

Our embrace of 'PC' and teaching our kids we have to walk around like wusses so as not to offend the world has also resulted in bringing up little 'BI@TCHES' like the protestors at Mizzou...who demanded the dean of the college resign because someone OFF CAMPUS hurled a racist slur at a student (never proved) and other B$ that could not be proved! These kids are so freakin' TWISTED and self-centered that they actually COMPLAINED that their 'limelight' had been stolen by the 150+ Parisians who had the NERVE to die and the other 130+ that had the NERVE to be seriously wounded in a terrorist attack while they were trying to have their wuss-fest protest! These kids were calling others 'racist' and demanding 'safe zones' while segregating their own movement, demanding ALL BLACK safe zones. WTF?!
- Kids, grow the F* UP! In life, not everyone gets a trophy, life is hard, it is not fair, and you do not have the right NOT to be offended. And if you were one of my kids and complained about the events in Paris being an unfair inconvenience' for you I would drag you out of college, beat your ass, and put you to work!

You can not CONTAIN EVIL...I'm not sure it can even be defeated, but I do know it must constantly be BEATEN BACK! It does not care about 'PC', if you are nice to it or not, and isn't just happy to SHARE what you have - it wants you DEAD and wants what you have!

The same Liberals who are saying we aren't the nation's policemen are now demanding we be the world's patsy...refuge...even if it costs us our national security and American lives. Syrians - military age males - are coming to the US and demanding WE go to their home and fight for them...and Liberals are suddenly happy with that! F* THAT!

Obama is an ignorant LOSER who has sought to contain the 'evil' and refuses to change course. He is intent on Importing terror, ignoring the threats and facts. According to reports he is ignoring the FBI, CIA, and DHS about terrorist threats and He is ignoring his military leaders. He has the United States slowly committing suicide...or worse. We are the proverbial frogs in the pot of hot water, and Obama is continually turning up the heat.

You missed the point of the OP. It wasn't about not offending Muslim extremists. It was about how to avoid creating new extremists by not treating all Muslims as if they were terrorists.

 

[easyt65]

You missed the point of the OP. It wasn't about not offending Muslim extremists. It was about how to avoid creating new extremists by not treating all Muslims as if they were terrorists.

No, I got that. He seems to be saying we should not treat the REAL Syrian Refugees like terrorists just because there are a few 'bad apples' in the bunch.

UNFORTUNATELY out of the 10 'apples' on the table, 3 have the potential to have enough poison in them to kill you. Knowing that, you wouldn't simply say, "I am not going to treat all the apples as if they may contain poison, I will treat the ones that don't differently'. The problem is you don't know which ones are good and which ones are bad. If it was any sane person they would not start handing them out to their friends and family to eat. They would do whatever it took to ensure 100% - not just try to test the best we can and then hope for the best - that the apples they eat will not kill them.

If there is a chance that we compromise our national security and Americans could potentially die in attacks like there were in Paris, sorry, but you're not coming in...not right away. We can keep you out of the US, provide you with housing, close, food, & protection until we are SURE none of them are terrorists or terrorist supporters. It's called common sense.

 

[The Rabbi]

How many Muslims have you seen condemning the Paris attacks?

#NotInMyName: Muslims condemn attacks in Paris - CNN.com

Thats like what one? Two?

 

[Decus]

If what has been reported is true, the end-game for ISIS is to bring about the apocalypse. Those swayed by that kind of message are fanatics and little can be done to reason with them.

According to Islam, a little town in Syria called Dabiq is where the final battle will begin.

"Expanding the conflict may seem like a self-destructive move. But to some analysts, it is squarely in keeping with what the group advertises as its overriding, apocalyptic mission: to lure the world’s unbelievers into Syria for a final, Armageddon-like battle."

For the Islamic State, paroxysms of violence portend apocalypse

.

 

[Decus]

How important is Dabiq to ISIS?

"Now that it has taken Dabiq, the Islamic State awaits the arrival of an enemy army there, whose defeat will initiate the countdown to the apocalypse. Western media frequently miss references to Dabiq in the Islamic State’s videos, and focus instead on lurid scenes of beheading."

......

"It would be facile, even exculpatory, to call the problem of the Islamic State “a problem with Islam.” The religion allows many interpretations, and Islamic State supporters are morally on the hook for the one they choose. And yet simply denouncing the Islamic State as un-Islamic can be counterproductive, especially if those who hear the message have read the holy texts and seen the endorsement of many of the caliphate’s practices written plainly within them."

"Muslims can say that slavery is not legitimate now, and that crucifixion is wrong at this historical juncture. Many say precisely this. But they cannot condemn slavery or crucifixion outright without contradicting the Koran and the example of the Prophet. “The only principled ground that the Islamic State’s opponents could take is to say that certain core texts and traditional teachings of Islam are no longer valid,” Bernard Haykel says. That really would be an act of apostasy."

What ISIS Really Wants

There seems to be little doubt that ISIS wants and needs the fight in order to remain relevant to their believers.

.

 

[easyt65]

Thats like what one? Two?

Nah, it was more like 34.

Some big Muslim in America representative was on Bill O'Reilly the other night, and he was asked why non-violent Muslims out in force protesting the Paris attacks and violence.

He said they had to wait from the direction / approval from their top Muslim Cleric before they could/would do that.

SERIOUSLY? So they can't condemn such acts of violence without the ok to do so? Hmmmm....

 

[Coyote]

How many Muslims have you seen condemning the Paris attacks? How many have you seen signing up to fight ISIS?
The truth is all Muslims share varying degrees of support for ISIS because they all believe the basic tenet that the world is divided between the dar al harb and the dar al salaam.

Most of the people fighting ISIS are Muslims.

 

[easyt65]

Most of the people fighting ISIS are Muslims.

In the ME, and only because their choices are to join them, fight them, or flee....Muslims in the US...Paris...they aren't lining up to defend Parisians or Americans, to fight ISIS...or even condemn the attacks.

 

[The Rabbi]

How many Muslims have you seen condemning the Paris attacks? How many have you seen signing up to fight ISIS?
The truth is all Muslims share varying degrees of support for ISIS because they all believe the basic tenet that the world is divided between the dar al harb and the dar al salaam.

Most of the people fighting ISIS are Muslims.

idiot. That's because most of the people in the region are Muslims period.
How many Muslims from outside of the region are volunteering to go fight with the Kurds? And how many are volunteering to fight with ISIS?

 

[Coyote]

How many Muslims have you seen condemning the Paris attacks? How many have you seen signing up to fight ISIS?
The truth is all Muslims share varying degrees of support for ISIS because they all believe the basic tenet that the world is divided between the dar al harb and the dar al salaam.

Most of the people fighting ISIS are Muslims.

idiot. That's because most of the people in the region are Muslims period.
How many Muslims from outside of the region are volunteering to go fight with the Kurds? And how many are volunteering to fight with ISIS?

Ya, and they're fighting ISIS.