Two more questions for partisans

[Correll]

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

Automation. Not trade policy. And it effects people of all races equally.

Next.

Automation is part of the loss of jobs, poor trade policy is also part of it, a part that can be fixed.

And no, it does NOT effect people of all races equally. Different groups have different economic and social situations so the same situation effects them differently.

You want two Anericas. I'm happy with just one. Core difference between us.

You ridiculed the idea that the largest single ethnic groups has interests or should have their interests represented in national policy.


You are the one that wants two Americas, and for one for of them to be marginalized so that you can advance YOUR agenda without resistance.

I'm a white dude. My agenda includes marginalizing white people? You sure you're not a sociopath?

From above. From my post that you hit the reply button to.


"You ridiculed the idea that the largest single ethnic groups has interests or should have their interests represented in national policy."



Behavior like that shows that you do indeed want to marginalize white people. Which is why I included it in my post before I made my conclusion.

I know that you understood that, and that your choice to instead be sarcastic was an attempt to dodge point.


Thus my conclusion, not only stands, but is more strongly supported by your dishonest avoidance.



You are the one that wants two Americas, and for one for of them to be marginalized so that you can advance YOUR agenda without resistance.

 

[Correll]

Automation is part of the loss of jobs, poor trade policy is also part of it, a part that can be fixed.

It's a bit deeper than that. We Americans are obsessed with low prices. Manufacturers only give us what we want. Reducing labor through automation or outsourcing is the number one way to reduce costs and price of products.

Did you see the WTO Airbus ruling last year? IMO, the mindset revealed by the Europeans shitcanned your theory.


Trump Right on Trade Predators



"Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

This is the voice of economic nationalism. Where is ours?"

Well I work with manufacturing every day. Our customers are always trying to make things cheaper to compete with foreign entities. This is especially true with companies that deal with Walmart. Walmart is always on their asses to make things cheaper. If they don't, Walmart drops their account and goes to a manufacturer that will make products cheaper.

In fact this past year, one of our customers lost an account because of Walmart. They cut their prices as much as they could to keep the account, but to no success. That was about three trailer loads a week we lost because of it.

If we stuck together, we could solve our manufacturing problem, but we collectively won't because price is paramount in our purchases. Now we have a new problem which is brick and mortar stores. Everybody is buying online for convenience and pricing.

How much of the price pressure is from trade policy, our or theirs, or shitty Third World wages?


AND with the mind set revealed by those quotes and those actions, do you think there is any chance the europeans arent' trying to fix the system?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Guy, you are always on here bitching about Obama or the darkies or the government... that sounds pretty unhappy to me.

And I did discuss the issue of property values.

No, you made up some phony theory which I proved wrong, but no real discussion about property values.

Okay, I got to cut you off right here, bud. If you don't know the facts of the case, you really shouldn't comment on them.

Warrants Detail Rush Limbaugh's Drug Use

Limbaugh plead guilty! So what he claims he didn't do is irrelevent. He plead guilty and he got rehab. Which I'm fine with.

The poor people in the ghetto should get the same treatment.

The ongoing fight was taking a lot of Limbaugh's time and money--into the millions. He just pled down to a lesser charge to get it behind him so he could move on in life. They were not going to leave him alone until he did.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Automation is part of the loss of jobs, poor trade policy is also part of it, a part that can be fixed.

It's a bit deeper than that. We Americans are obsessed with low prices. Manufacturers only give us what we want. Reducing labor through automation or outsourcing is the number one way to reduce costs and price of products.

Did you see the WTO Airbus ruling last year? IMO, the mindset revealed by the Europeans shitcanned your theory.


Trump Right on Trade Predators



"Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

This is the voice of economic nationalism. Where is ours?"

Well I work with manufacturing every day. Our customers are always trying to make things cheaper to compete with foreign entities. This is especially true with companies that deal with Walmart. Walmart is always on their asses to make things cheaper. If they don't, Walmart drops their account and goes to a manufacturer that will make products cheaper.

In fact this past year, one of our customers lost an account because of Walmart. They cut their prices as much as they could to keep the account, but to no success. That was about three trailer loads a week we lost because of it.

If we stuck together, we could solve our manufacturing problem, but we collectively won't because price is paramount in our purchases. Now we have a new problem which is brick and mortar stores. Everybody is buying online for convenience and pricing.

How much of the price pressure is from trade policy, our or theirs, or shitty Third World wages?


AND with the mind set revealed by those quotes and those actions, do you think there is any chance the europeans arent' trying to fix the system?

Yes, that's part of it. But if we consumers made an effort to buy American and only American regardless of price, that solves most all of the problem. Stores are only going to sell goods we consumers want. If we want more expensive American products, that's what they are going to carry. Then it wouldn't matter what our (or theirs) trade policies were.

I don't know how we can change this mindset of ours, but if we don't, we will continue to create our own problems. I can't tell you how much work our company lost because of companies packing their bags and moving out of state or out of the country to compete with overseas products. The ones that moved out of state were trying to get away from the unions, and the ones that moved out of the country had to in order to compete globally.

 

[JoeB131]

I know it somehow makes you feel better to not pick a "side"... but there are sides... there's the side that wants to destroy working class people so they have a never ending supply of cheap labor and an unending supply of wealth...

and the side that is fighting against those things and wants equality for all people.. or at least tries.

but let's pretend that we have to address the level of "discourse" in this country.... you can blame the disgusting tenor of discussion in this country on 60 years of the southern strategy and 30 years of rightwingnut talk radio and faux news.

or you can pretend that those things are somehow equaled by what the "other side" does. but let me tell you, I wish the Dems knew how to slime like the right. we wouldn't have an internet troll for president.

Well said!

 

[JoeB131]

The ongoing fight was taking a lot of Limbaugh's time and money--into the millions. He just pled down to a lesser charge to get it behind him so he could move on in life. They were not going to leave him alone until he did.

Guy, he is a multi-millionaire.. Please don't tell me this one percenter was worried about money.

He knew that if he ever got in front of a jury of 12 working folks, he was going down because he was as guilty as a cat in a canary cage

 

[Correll]

Automation is part of the loss of jobs, poor trade policy is also part of it, a part that can be fixed.

It's a bit deeper than that. We Americans are obsessed with low prices. Manufacturers only give us what we want. Reducing labor through automation or outsourcing is the number one way to reduce costs and price of products.

Did you see the WTO Airbus ruling last year? IMO, the mindset revealed by the Europeans shitcanned your theory.


Trump Right on Trade Predators



"Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

This is the voice of economic nationalism. Where is ours?"

Well I work with manufacturing every day. Our customers are always trying to make things cheaper to compete with foreign entities. This is especially true with companies that deal with Walmart. Walmart is always on their asses to make things cheaper. If they don't, Walmart drops their account and goes to a manufacturer that will make products cheaper.

In fact this past year, one of our customers lost an account because of Walmart. They cut their prices as much as they could to keep the account, but to no success. That was about three trailer loads a week we lost because of it.

If we stuck together, we could solve our manufacturing problem, but we collectively won't because price is paramount in our purchases. Now we have a new problem which is brick and mortar stores. Everybody is buying online for convenience and pricing.

How much of the price pressure is from trade policy, our or theirs, or shitty Third World wages?


AND with the mind set revealed by those quotes and those actions, do you think there is any chance the europeans arent' trying to fix the system?

Yes, that's part of it. But if we consumers made an effort to buy American and only American regardless of price, that solves most all of the problem. Stores are only going to sell goods we consumers want. If we want more expensive American products, that's what they are going to carry. Then it wouldn't matter what our (or theirs) trade policies were.

I don't know how we can change this mindset of ours, but if we don't, we will continue to create our own problems. I can't tell you how much work our company lost because of companies packing their bags and moving out of state or out of the country to compete with overseas products. The ones that moved out of state were trying to get away from the unions, and the ones that moved out of the country had to in order to compete globally.

Trade policy is not something that is the individual's personal responsibility, it is the job of the national government.


THe voters elected the American First guy, and now we need to see policy to reflect that.

 

[Toro]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Partisans have no interest at all in hearing the other side.

 

[Correll]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Partisans have no interest at all in hearing the other side.

I'm a partisan and if the other side has something to say beyond, "You evul for not agreeing with me" I'm happy to listen and respond seriously and honestly.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's a bit deeper than that. We Americans are obsessed with low prices. Manufacturers only give us what we want. Reducing labor through automation or outsourcing is the number one way to reduce costs and price of products.

Did you see the WTO Airbus ruling last year? IMO, the mindset revealed by the Europeans shitcanned your theory.


Trump Right on Trade Predators



"Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

This is the voice of economic nationalism. Where is ours?"

Well I work with manufacturing every day. Our customers are always trying to make things cheaper to compete with foreign entities. This is especially true with companies that deal with Walmart. Walmart is always on their asses to make things cheaper. If they don't, Walmart drops their account and goes to a manufacturer that will make products cheaper.

In fact this past year, one of our customers lost an account because of Walmart. They cut their prices as much as they could to keep the account, but to no success. That was about three trailer loads a week we lost because of it.

If we stuck together, we could solve our manufacturing problem, but we collectively won't because price is paramount in our purchases. Now we have a new problem which is brick and mortar stores. Everybody is buying online for convenience and pricing.

How much of the price pressure is from trade policy, our or theirs, or shitty Third World wages?


AND with the mind set revealed by those quotes and those actions, do you think there is any chance the europeans arent' trying to fix the system?

Yes, that's part of it. But if we consumers made an effort to buy American and only American regardless of price, that solves most all of the problem. Stores are only going to sell goods we consumers want. If we want more expensive American products, that's what they are going to carry. Then it wouldn't matter what our (or theirs) trade policies were.

I don't know how we can change this mindset of ours, but if we don't, we will continue to create our own problems. I can't tell you how much work our company lost because of companies packing their bags and moving out of state or out of the country to compete with overseas products. The ones that moved out of state were trying to get away from the unions, and the ones that moved out of the country had to in order to compete globally.

Trade policy is not something that is the individual's personal responsibility, it is the job of the national government.


THe voters elected the American First guy, and now we need to see policy to reflect that.

I'm not saying trade policy is a personal responsibility, but purchasing products is. When we purchase cheap products, we put Americans and American companies out of work.

I'm old enough to remember the conversion of full service gasoline stations to self-serve.

Some genius(s) came up with the idea that if he could keep their mechanics repairing cars instead of stopping all the time to pump gasoline, they could increase profits. So at first, they made one pump self-serve. The lure was cheaper gasoline. Before you know it, people were lining up at the self-serve pump to save money, and that prompted business owners to make two pumps self-serve, then three, and then it eventually went to all self-serve.

We got cheaper gasoline, but eliminated jobs in the process. Now automation is hitting our fast food restaurants, and if we buy products there instead of going to all human labor restaurants, we are putting Americans out of work.

 

[Mac1958]

Partisans have no interest at all in hearing the other side.

And that's absolutely fascinating to me, the tribal nature of partisanship, and it has been SO exacerbated by the internet, which provides safe spaces for each "side" to get its "news" and general talking points. One of the things I wonder about is whether they are afraid to honestly and openly expose themselves to contrary thought because they want so much to belong to their tribe, or whether ideology is powerful enough to create an intellectual vacuum that essentially blinds them. Or both.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Partisans have no interest at all in hearing the other side.

I'm a partisan and if the other side has something to say beyond, "You evul for not agreeing with me" I'm happy to listen and respond seriously and honestly.

Well, from my perspective, that makes you not a very GOOD partisan.
.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The ongoing fight was taking a lot of Limbaugh's time and money--into the millions. He just pled down to a lesser charge to get it behind him so he could move on in life. They were not going to leave him alone until he did.

Guy, he is a multi-millionaire.. Please don't tell me this one percenter was worried about money.

He knew that if he ever got in front of a jury of 12 working folks, he was going down because he was as guilty as a cat in a canary cage

Then why did it take over three years before he finally gave in if they had the ability to do anything to him? Nobody wants to fight with the law that long. If there is a way to get them out of your ass, then you do so in order to move on with your life.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm a partisan and if the other side has something to say beyond, "You evul for not agreeing with me" I'm happy to listen and respond seriously and honestly.

Except people do that all the time. Just because you are incapable of understanding an argument doesn't meant he argument wasn't made.

 

[JoeB131]

Then why did it take over three years before he finally gave in if they had the ability to do anything to him? Nobody want to fight with the law that long. If there is a way to get them out of your ass, then you do so in order to move on with your life.

again, guy, money and privilege.

Next you'll be telling me OJ was innocent.

 

[Correll]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Partisans have no interest at all in hearing the other side.

I'm a partisan and if the other side has something to say beyond, "You evul for not agreeing with me" I'm happy to listen and respond seriously and honestly.

Well, from my perspective, that makes you not a very GOOD partisan.
.

I'm a strong support of the GOP, in my pursuit of what I see as the best policies for the interests of Americans and America.

Nothing in that statement requires me to be an ass to people who disagree with me.

 

[jillian]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Partisans have no interest at all in hearing the other side.

I know that when someone spews BS like its "trade policy" that killed jobs, there is nothing to "hear". sorry, my friend.

 

[LoneLaugher]

It's a bit deeper than that. We Americans are obsessed with low prices. Manufacturers only give us what we want. Reducing labor through automation or outsourcing is the number one way to reduce costs and price of products.

Did you see the WTO Airbus ruling last year? IMO, the mindset revealed by the Europeans shitcanned your theory.


Trump Right on Trade Predators



"Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

This is the voice of economic nationalism. Where is ours?"

Well I work with manufacturing every day. Our customers are always trying to make things cheaper to compete with foreign entities. This is especially true with companies that deal with Walmart. Walmart is always on their asses to make things cheaper. If they don't, Walmart drops their account and goes to a manufacturer that will make products cheaper.

In fact this past year, one of our customers lost an account because of Walmart. They cut their prices as much as they could to keep the account, but to no success. That was about three trailer loads a week we lost because of it.

If we stuck together, we could solve our manufacturing problem, but we collectively won't because price is paramount in our purchases. Now we have a new problem which is brick and mortar stores. Everybody is buying online for convenience and pricing.

How much of the price pressure is from trade policy, our or theirs, or shitty Third World wages?


AND with the mind set revealed by those quotes and those actions, do you think there is any chance the europeans arent' trying to fix the system?

Yes, that's part of it. But if we consumers made an effort to buy American and only American regardless of price, that solves most all of the problem. Stores are only going to sell goods we consumers want. If we want more expensive American products, that's what they are going to carry. Then it wouldn't matter what our (or theirs) trade policies were.

I don't know how we can change this mindset of ours, but if we don't, we will continue to create our own problems. I can't tell you how much work our company lost because of companies packing their bags and moving out of state or out of the country to compete with overseas products. The ones that moved out of state were trying to get away from the unions, and the ones that moved out of the country had to in order to compete globally.

Trade policy is not something that is the individual's personal responsibility, it is the job of the national government.


THe voters elected the American First guy, and now we need to see policy to reflect that.

Yeah. He's America first alright.

 

[Correll]

Did you see the WTO Airbus ruling last year? IMO, the mindset revealed by the Europeans shitcanned your theory.


Trump Right on Trade Predators



"Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

This is the voice of economic nationalism. Where is ours?"

Well I work with manufacturing every day. Our customers are always trying to make things cheaper to compete with foreign entities. This is especially true with companies that deal with Walmart. Walmart is always on their asses to make things cheaper. If they don't, Walmart drops their account and goes to a manufacturer that will make products cheaper.

In fact this past year, one of our customers lost an account because of Walmart. They cut their prices as much as they could to keep the account, but to no success. That was about three trailer loads a week we lost because of it.

If we stuck together, we could solve our manufacturing problem, but we collectively won't because price is paramount in our purchases. Now we have a new problem which is brick and mortar stores. Everybody is buying online for convenience and pricing.

How much of the price pressure is from trade policy, our or theirs, or shitty Third World wages?


AND with the mind set revealed by those quotes and those actions, do you think there is any chance the europeans arent' trying to fix the system?

Yes, that's part of it. But if we consumers made an effort to buy American and only American regardless of price, that solves most all of the problem. Stores are only going to sell goods we consumers want. If we want more expensive American products, that's what they are going to carry. Then it wouldn't matter what our (or theirs) trade policies were.

I don't know how we can change this mindset of ours, but if we don't, we will continue to create our own problems. I can't tell you how much work our company lost because of companies packing their bags and moving out of state or out of the country to compete with overseas products. The ones that moved out of state were trying to get away from the unions, and the ones that moved out of the country had to in order to compete globally.

Trade policy is not something that is the individual's personal responsibility, it is the job of the national government.


THe voters elected the American First guy, and now we need to see policy to reflect that.

Yeah. He's America first alright.

If he gives his platform a good faith attempt, he certainly will be.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Well I work with manufacturing every day. Our customers are always trying to make things cheaper to compete with foreign entities. This is especially true with companies that deal with Walmart. Walmart is always on their asses to make things cheaper. If they don't, Walmart drops their account and goes to a manufacturer that will make products cheaper.

In fact this past year, one of our customers lost an account because of Walmart. They cut their prices as much as they could to keep the account, but to no success. That was about three trailer loads a week we lost because of it.

If we stuck together, we could solve our manufacturing problem, but we collectively won't because price is paramount in our purchases. Now we have a new problem which is brick and mortar stores. Everybody is buying online for convenience and pricing.

How much of the price pressure is from trade policy, our or theirs, or shitty Third World wages?


AND with the mind set revealed by those quotes and those actions, do you think there is any chance the europeans arent' trying to fix the system?

Yes, that's part of it. But if we consumers made an effort to buy American and only American regardless of price, that solves most all of the problem. Stores are only going to sell goods we consumers want. If we want more expensive American products, that's what they are going to carry. Then it wouldn't matter what our (or theirs) trade policies were.

I don't know how we can change this mindset of ours, but if we don't, we will continue to create our own problems. I can't tell you how much work our company lost because of companies packing their bags and moving out of state or out of the country to compete with overseas products. The ones that moved out of state were trying to get away from the unions, and the ones that moved out of the country had to in order to compete globally.

Trade policy is not something that is the individual's personal responsibility, it is the job of the national government.


THe voters elected the American First guy, and now we need to see policy to reflect that.

Yeah. He's America first alright.

If he gives his platform a good faith attempt, he certainly will be.

Obama was America first. Won't you agree?