Two more questions for partisans

[Correll]

How much of the price pressure is from trade policy, our or theirs, or shitty Third World wages?


AND with the mind set revealed by those quotes and those actions, do you think there is any chance the europeans arent' trying to fix the system?

Yes, that's part of it. But if we consumers made an effort to buy American and only American regardless of price, that solves most all of the problem. Stores are only going to sell goods we consumers want. If we want more expensive American products, that's what they are going to carry. Then it wouldn't matter what our (or theirs) trade policies were.

I don't know how we can change this mindset of ours, but if we don't, we will continue to create our own problems. I can't tell you how much work our company lost because of companies packing their bags and moving out of state or out of the country to compete with overseas products. The ones that moved out of state were trying to get away from the unions, and the ones that moved out of the country had to in order to compete globally.

Trade policy is not something that is the individual's personal responsibility, it is the job of the national government.


THe voters elected the American First guy, and now we need to see policy to reflect that.

Yeah. He's America first alright.

If he gives his platform a good faith attempt, he certainly will be.

Obama was America first. Won't you agree?

NO, I don't. I can't think of any major policies of his that put America First.

 

[Redfish]

It would look a lot like the last election.

So having your candidate receive 46.4% of the vote qualifies as a vast majority?.

we use the electoral college to select presidents. the win there was substantial.

Of course. But that doesn't mean that the majority of country agrees with ANYTHING.
.

The majority of the country agrees on quite a lot.

The latest polling shows no one, not even a plurality of republicans want anything to do with the republicans health bill.

There are no economic issues with which a plurality of Republicans are in sync with the agenda that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell have proposed.

Ask how that can be....find the honest answer...and understand how we got where we are.

its simple, Ryan and McConnell are rinos who are out of sync with the rest of the GOP and a majority of americans.

 

[LoneLaugher]

So having your candidate receive 46.4% of the vote qualifies as a vast majority?.

we use the electoral college to select presidents. the win there was substantial.

Of course. But that doesn't mean that the majority of country agrees with ANYTHING.
.

The majority of the country agrees on quite a lot.

The latest polling shows no one, not even a plurality of republicans want anything to do with the republicans health bill.

There are no economic issues with which a plurality of Republicans are in sync with the agenda that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell have proposed.

Ask how that can be....find the honest answer...and understand how we got where we are.

its simple, Ryan and McConnell are rinos who are out of sync with the rest of the GOP and a majority of americans.

You agree. Great. Now why did you vote for them?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Yes, that's part of it. But if we consumers made an effort to buy American and only American regardless of price, that solves most all of the problem. Stores are only going to sell goods we consumers want. If we want more expensive American products, that's what they are going to carry. Then it wouldn't matter what our (or theirs) trade policies were.

I don't know how we can change this mindset of ours, but if we don't, we will continue to create our own problems. I can't tell you how much work our company lost because of companies packing their bags and moving out of state or out of the country to compete with overseas products. The ones that moved out of state were trying to get away from the unions, and the ones that moved out of the country had to in order to compete globally.

Trade policy is not something that is the individual's personal responsibility, it is the job of the national government.


THe voters elected the American First guy, and now we need to see policy to reflect that.

Yeah. He's America first alright.

If he gives his platform a good faith attempt, he certainly will be.

Obama was America first. Won't you agree?

NO, I don't. I can't think of any major policies of his that put America First.

No even one? Are you sure you tried?

 

[Redfish]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

1. impossible
2. What does that even mean, "beat the other side?" Isn't that kinda what everyone does when there are two sides?

I actually got that from people like Limbaugh and Levin, who often say liberalism must be defeated, and their influence is pretty clear. I'd just like to know what that would look like. I don't think I've received a specific response to that so far.

And there are NOT "two sides", as in Left and Right. Wingers remain the minority, and the rest of us are asking them to get over themselves, extricate themselves from their ideological bubbles, and behave like adults.

Hence my sig. The "two sides" are the wingers on each end, vs. the rest of us, the majority.
.

you are correct that the wingers on both sides are the problem. However, the far left wing encompasses most of the democrat party and most of the media, while the far right is a tiny minority of idiots.

The issue becomes the size and scope of the "wings". Fortunately, at present those of us in the middle are still the numeric majority, and I do sense that our numbers are growing.

Yeah. Be in the middle. Like Redfish. He's in the middle.

Yes, I am. So are the majority of americans. The elections of 2016 and 2017 prove that.

 

[Redfish]

we use the electoral college to select presidents. the win there was substantial.

Of course. But that doesn't mean that the majority of country agrees with ANYTHING.
.

The majority of the country agrees on quite a lot.

The latest polling shows no one, not even a plurality of republicans want anything to do with the republicans health bill.

There are no economic issues with which a plurality of Republicans are in sync with the agenda that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell have proposed.

Ask how that can be....find the honest answer...and understand how we got where we are.

its simple, Ryan and McConnell are rinos who are out of sync with the rest of the GOP and a majority of americans.

You agree. Great. Now why did you vote for them?

I don't live in KY or Wis. Didn't vote for either of them. Ask someone who lives in those states. The answer is probably pork.

 

[Correll]

Trade policy is not something that is the individual's personal responsibility, it is the job of the national government.


THe voters elected the American First guy, and now we need to see policy to reflect that.

Yeah. He's America first alright.

If he gives his platform a good faith attempt, he certainly will be.

Obama was America first. Won't you agree?

NO, I don't. I can't think of any major policies of his that put America First.

No even one? Are you sure you tried?

I tried some. I lost any hope I had for him long ago.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How much of the price pressure is from trade policy, our or theirs, or shitty Third World wages?


AND with the mind set revealed by those quotes and those actions, do you think there is any chance the europeans arent' trying to fix the system?

Yes, that's part of it. But if we consumers made an effort to buy American and only American regardless of price, that solves most all of the problem. Stores are only going to sell goods we consumers want. If we want more expensive American products, that's what they are going to carry. Then it wouldn't matter what our (or theirs) trade policies were.

I don't know how we can change this mindset of ours, but if we don't, we will continue to create our own problems. I can't tell you how much work our company lost because of companies packing their bags and moving out of state or out of the country to compete with overseas products. The ones that moved out of state were trying to get away from the unions, and the ones that moved out of the country had to in order to compete globally.

Trade policy is not something that is the individual's personal responsibility, it is the job of the national government.


THe voters elected the American First guy, and now we need to see policy to reflect that.

Yeah. He's America first alright.

If he gives his platform a good faith attempt, he certainly will be.

Obama was America first. Won't you agree?

How in hell can anybody agree to that?

 

[Toro]

I'm a partisan and if the other side has something to say beyond, "You evul for not agreeing with me" I'm happy to listen and respond seriously and honestly.

That makes you better than the other 99% of partisans, then.

 

[Coyote]

Sweet reply. Tell me more about how us whites can keep power. Careful though. Mac might accuse you of employing identity politics. Silly me! He'd never do that.

Keep power?

I said nothing about keeping power. I see no evidence that we HAVE power.


I want policy that protects and advances our interests.

As opposed to the policies of the modern era that has been mostly, actively AGAINST them.

Aww. Poor thing.

Being white is such a struggle. If only we could vote in unison like the negroes do. We'd have a chance to finally drive policy!

Fairly standard response from the Left, ie to ridicule the very idea that whites have interests or needs to have their interest protected or advanced though/by national policy.


This represents a very serious hostility towards white people.

And as it represents the propaganda driven Conventional Wisdom, it shows that part of the problem is that even discussing white interests is Taboo.

And that is quite a problem, for whites, for society , for the nation.


How can you have a stable or just society when it is taboo for the largest single ethnic group to even talk about their interests?

Wow, have to admit this argument is a new stretch on the "white racist" theme. I guess I must be a self hating white then

Wtf ARE "white interests" ?

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

That effects e erroneous not just whites. How is it a white interest?
The biggest cause of job loss on those areas is automation...how will you combat that?

 

[Faun]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Anyone who thinks they can either change anyones' mind on the other side; or beat them (no one ever concedes even when beaten) is only fooling themselves. Forums like this exist purely for entertainment purposes.

 

[Mac1958]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

Anyone who thinks they can either change anyones' mind on the other side; or beat them (no one ever concedes even when beaten) is only fooling themselves. Forums like this exist purely for entertainment purposes.

I get that in general, but I'm talking about far more than this forum. This behavior is clearly spreading.

Also, I probably shouldn't have used the term "change a person's mind" - this behavior is so noxious that the "sides" can't even bring themselves to find the tiniest common ground on which to build. A reasonable adult doesn't have to "change their mind" to work with others to improve things. They just need to open their mind and submerge their ego a bit. That's virtually non-existent at this point. And the nastiness is just cementing that.
.

 

[JoeB131]

That effects e erroneous not just whites. How is it a white interest?
The biggest cause of job loss on those areas is automation...how will you combat that?

Correll finds it easier to hate on brown people than machines.

 

[JoeB131]

Also, I probably shouldn't have used the term "change a person's mind" - this behavior is so noxious that the "sides" can't even bring themselves to find the tiniest common ground on which to build. A reasonable adult doesn't have to "change their mind" to work with others to improve things. They just need to open their mind and submerge their ego a bit. That's virtually non-existent at this point. And the nastiness is just cementing that

Again, when the other side would rather burn down the country than let our side win, there's really not a lot to talk about.

When they reject their own health care reform proposal because "The Black Guy Did It", how do you reason with that, exactly?

Having a rational conversation with someone actually works on the assumption they are rational.

Trump is the result of 40 years of the GOP using racial, sexual and religious fears to get working class whites to vote against their own economic interests.

 

[Correll]

Keep power?

I said nothing about keeping power. I see no evidence that we HAVE power.


I want policy that protects and advances our interests.

As opposed to the policies of the modern era that has been mostly, actively AGAINST them.

Aww. Poor thing.

Being white is such a struggle. If only we could vote in unison like the negroes do. We'd have a chance to finally drive policy!

Fairly standard response from the Left, ie to ridicule the very idea that whites have interests or needs to have their interest protected or advanced though/by national policy.


This represents a very serious hostility towards white people.

And as it represents the propaganda driven Conventional Wisdom, it shows that part of the problem is that even discussing white interests is Taboo.

And that is quite a problem, for whites, for society , for the nation.


How can you have a stable or just society when it is taboo for the largest single ethnic group to even talk about their interests?

Wow, have to admit this argument is a new stretch on the "white racist" theme. I guess I must be a self hating white then

Wtf ARE "white interests" ?

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

That effects e erroneous not just whites. How is it a white interest?
The biggest cause of job loss on those areas is automation...how will you combat that?

1. It effects tens of millions of whites, who have an interest in that effect being reverse or at least the effects addressed.

How is that NOT, thus a white interest?

2. I know that automation AND bad trade policy has led to massive loss of manufacturing jobs. Automation is an issue that, imo, cannot be fought without losing competitiveness vs our trade rivals. Bad Trade policy CAN BE. Germany has twice the level of manufacturing employment we do. That is not because they are luddites who refuse to use automation. It is not because they have slave labor wages.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Aww. Poor thing.

Being white is such a struggle. If only we could vote in unison like the negroes do. We'd have a chance to finally drive policy!

Fairly standard response from the Left, ie to ridicule the very idea that whites have interests or needs to have their interest protected or advanced though/by national policy.


This represents a very serious hostility towards white people.

And as it represents the propaganda driven Conventional Wisdom, it shows that part of the problem is that even discussing white interests is Taboo.

And that is quite a problem, for whites, for society , for the nation.


How can you have a stable or just society when it is taboo for the largest single ethnic group to even talk about their interests?

Wow, have to admit this argument is a new stretch on the "white racist" theme. I guess I must be a self hating white then

Wtf ARE "white interests" ?

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

That effects e erroneous not just whites. How is it a white interest?
The biggest cause of job loss on those areas is automation...how will you combat that?

1. It effects tens of millions of whites, who have an interest in that effect being reverse or at least the effects addressed.

How is that NOT, thus a white interest?

2. I know that automation AND bad trade policy has led to massive loss of manufacturing jobs. Automation is an issue that, imo, cannot be fought without losing competitiveness vs our trade rivals. Bad Trade policy CAN BE. Germany has twice the level of manufacturing employment we do. That is not because they are luddites who refuse to use automation. It is not because they have slave labor wages.

Germany has twice the level of manufacturing employment we do?

Please cite your source for that. Thanks.

 

[Correll]

Fairly standard response from the Left, ie to ridicule the very idea that whites have interests or needs to have their interest protected or advanced though/by national policy.


This represents a very serious hostility towards white people.

And as it represents the propaganda driven Conventional Wisdom, it shows that part of the problem is that even discussing white interests is Taboo.

And that is quite a problem, for whites, for society , for the nation.


How can you have a stable or just society when it is taboo for the largest single ethnic group to even talk about their interests?

Wow, have to admit this argument is a new stretch on the "white racist" theme. I guess I must be a self hating white then

Wtf ARE "white interests" ?

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

That effects e erroneous not just whites. How is it a white interest?
The biggest cause of job loss on those areas is automation...how will you combat that?

1. It effects tens of millions of whites, who have an interest in that effect being reverse or at least the effects addressed.

How is that NOT, thus a white interest?

2. I know that automation AND bad trade policy has led to massive loss of manufacturing jobs. Automation is an issue that, imo, cannot be fought without losing competitiveness vs our trade rivals. Bad Trade policy CAN BE. Germany has twice the level of manufacturing employment we do. That is not because they are luddites who refuse to use automation. It is not because they have slave labor wages.

Germany has twice the level of manufacturing employment we do?

Please cite your source for that. Thanks.

THe us,

Percent of Employment in Manufacturing in the United States (DISCONTINUED)


10.1 % as of 2010.

germany


Percent of Employment in Manufacturing in Germany (DISCONTINUED)

20.1% as of 2010.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Ahh.... You were talking percentages. Did you see this chart while you were picking those cherries?

Percent of Employment in Manufacturing in the United States (DISCONTINUED)


Percent of Employment in Manufacturing in Germany (DISCONTINUED)

 

[LoneLaugher]

Let's establish the reasons behind the percentages
listed.

Then, explain what this has to do with the subject at hand.

Thanks.

 

[Correll]

Let's establish the reasons behind the percentages
listed.

Then, explain what this has to do with the subject at hand.

Thanks.

YOu jumped into this thread with a request for me to support a claim I made. I did that.

If you have something to say, say it.

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

That effects e erroneous not just whites. How is it a white interest?
The biggest cause of job loss on those areas is automation...how will you combat that?

1. It effects tens of millions of whites, who have an interest in that effect being reverse or at least the effects addressed.

How is that NOT, thus a white interest?

2. I know that automation AND bad trade policy has led to massive loss of manufacturing jobs. Automation is an issue that, imo, cannot be fought without losing competitiveness vs our trade rivals. Bad Trade policy CAN BE. Germany has twice the level of manufacturing employment we do. That is not because they are luddites who refuse to use automation. It is not because they have slave labor wages.