Two more questions for partisans

[LoneLaugher]

Sweet reply. Tell me more about how us whites can keep power. Careful though. Mac might accuse you of employing identity politics. Silly me! He'd never do that.

Keep power?

I said nothing about keeping power. I see no evidence that we HAVE power.


I want policy that protects and advances our interests.

As opposed to the policies of the modern era that has been mostly, actively AGAINST them.

Aww. Poor thing.

Being white is such a struggle. If only we could vote in unison like the negroes do. We'd have a chance to finally drive policy!

Fairly standard response from the Left, ie to ridicule the very idea that whites have interests or needs to have their interest protected or advanced though/by national policy.


This represents a very serious hostility towards white people.

And as it represents the propaganda driven Conventional Wisdom, it shows that part of the problem is that even discussing white interests is Taboo.

And that is quite a problem, for whites, for society , for the nation.


How can you have a stable or just society when it is taboo for the largest single ethnic group to even talk about their interests?

Wow, have to admit this argument is a new stretch on the "white racist" theme. I guess I must be a self hating white then

Wtf ARE "white interests" ?

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

Automation. Not trade policy. And it effects people of all races equally.

Next.

 

[Correll]

I can see the topic of the thread has been successfully derailed and deflected to the "yeah, but YOU'RE a RACIST" meme.

The regressives are GOOD!


.

Your pal opened up the discussion on white people vs black people. Are you calling him a regressive?

It is clear that that is not what he posted.


Why are you being dishonest?

If you hadn't posted your 1-2 on how to get whites to drive policy, we would not be talking about race now. It is part and parcel of every thread you join. It always boils down to the white struggle with you. Do you even realize that?

I asked you why you pretended to misunderstand what Mac posted.

Nothing in your post is connected in any fashion to my post that you hist the reply button to.

I understood him fine. He complIned that I made this thread about race. That is something you did. Get it?

I referenced race in my response to his question. YOu are the one that changed the thread from a discussion on what various individual partisans want to your opinion on me.

That was what his post was obviously about. You know that, but pretended to be too stupid to know that.

 

[jillian]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

I know it somehow makes you feel better to not pick a "side"... but there are sides... there's the side that wants to destroy working class people so they have a never ending supply of cheap labor and an unending supply of wealth...

and the side that is fighting against those things and wants equality for all people.. or at least tries.

but let's pretend that we have to address the level of "discourse" in this country.... you can blame the disgusting tenor of discussion in this country on 60 years of the southern strategy and 30 years of rightwingnut talk radio and faux news.

or you can pretend that those things are somehow equaled by what the "other side" does. but let me tell you, I wish the Dems knew how to slime like the right. we wouldn't have an internet troll for president.

 

[jillian]

Keep power?

I said nothing about keeping power. I see no evidence that we HAVE power.


I want policy that protects and advances our interests.

As opposed to the policies of the modern era that has been mostly, actively AGAINST them.

Aww. Poor thing.

Being white is such a struggle. If only we could vote in unison like the negroes do. We'd have a chance to finally drive policy!

Fairly standard response from the Left, ie to ridicule the very idea that whites have interests or needs to have their interest protected or advanced though/by national policy.


This represents a very serious hostility towards white people.

And as it represents the propaganda driven Conventional Wisdom, it shows that part of the problem is that even discussing white interests is Taboo.

And that is quite a problem, for whites, for society , for the nation.


How can you have a stable or just society when it is taboo for the largest single ethnic group to even talk about their interests?

Wow, have to admit this argument is a new stretch on the "white racist" theme. I guess I must be a self hating white then

Wtf ARE "white interests" ?

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

Automation. Not trade policy. And it effects people of all races equally.

Next.

to understand that, he'd have to not be parroting rightwingnut dogma.... and he'd have to be informed... .neither of those things is ever going to happen

and we might also mention the fact that his orange sociopath and his complicit daughter, the focus of his lust, manufacture their goods overseas.

they're such dupes

 

[Correll]

Keep power?

I said nothing about keeping power. I see no evidence that we HAVE power.


I want policy that protects and advances our interests.

As opposed to the policies of the modern era that has been mostly, actively AGAINST them.

Aww. Poor thing.

Being white is such a struggle. If only we could vote in unison like the negroes do. We'd have a chance to finally drive policy!

Fairly standard response from the Left, ie to ridicule the very idea that whites have interests or needs to have their interest protected or advanced though/by national policy.


This represents a very serious hostility towards white people.

And as it represents the propaganda driven Conventional Wisdom, it shows that part of the problem is that even discussing white interests is Taboo.

And that is quite a problem, for whites, for society , for the nation.


How can you have a stable or just society when it is taboo for the largest single ethnic group to even talk about their interests?

Wow, have to admit this argument is a new stretch on the "white racist" theme. I guess I must be a self hating white then

Wtf ARE "white interests" ?

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

Automation. Not trade policy. And it effects people of all races equally.

Next.

Automation is part of the loss of jobs, poor trade policy is also part of it, a part that can be fixed.

And no, it does NOT effect people of all races equally. Different groups have different economic and social situations so the same situation effects them differently.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Your pal opened up the discussion on white people vs black people. Are you calling him a regressive?

ever notice that Mac rarely mentions the pretty open racism of Ray and Correll, but he'll go on and on about how "regressive liberals" use identity politics?

Ever notice that 80% of your replies on any thread is about race???

 

[Mac1958]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

I know it somehow makes you feel better to not pick a "side"... but there are sides... there's the side that wants to destroy working class people so they have a never ending supply of cheap labor and an unending supply of wealth...

and the side that is fighting against those things and wants equality for all people.. or at least tries.

but let's pretend that we have to address the level of "discourse" in this country.... you can blame the disgusting tenor of discussion in this country on 60 years of the southern strategy and 30 years of rightwingnut talk radio and faux news.

or you can pretend that those things are somehow equaled by what the "other side" does. but let me tell you, I wish the Dems knew how to slime like the right. we wouldn't have an internet troll for president.

My "side" is laid out clearly in my sig. I realize it doesn't fit the current simplistic, binary template, but it is definitely a side.
.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Aww. Poor thing.

Being white is such a struggle. If only we could vote in unison like the negroes do. We'd have a chance to finally drive policy!

Fairly standard response from the Left, ie to ridicule the very idea that whites have interests or needs to have their interest protected or advanced though/by national policy.


This represents a very serious hostility towards white people.

And as it represents the propaganda driven Conventional Wisdom, it shows that part of the problem is that even discussing white interests is Taboo.

And that is quite a problem, for whites, for society , for the nation.


How can you have a stable or just society when it is taboo for the largest single ethnic group to even talk about their interests?

Wow, have to admit this argument is a new stretch on the "white racist" theme. I guess I must be a self hating white then

Wtf ARE "white interests" ?

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

Automation. Not trade policy. And it effects people of all races equally.

Next.

Automation is part of the loss of jobs, poor trade policy is also part of it, a part that can be fixed.

And no, it does NOT effect people of all races equally. Different groups have different economic and social situations so the same situation effects them differently.

You want two Anericas. I'm happy with just one. Core difference between us.

 

[Correll]

Aww. Poor thing.

Being white is such a struggle. If only we could vote in unison like the negroes do. We'd have a chance to finally drive policy!

Fairly standard response from the Left, ie to ridicule the very idea that whites have interests or needs to have their interest protected or advanced though/by national policy.


This represents a very serious hostility towards white people.

And as it represents the propaganda driven Conventional Wisdom, it shows that part of the problem is that even discussing white interests is Taboo.

And that is quite a problem, for whites, for society , for the nation.


How can you have a stable or just society when it is taboo for the largest single ethnic group to even talk about their interests?

Wow, have to admit this argument is a new stretch on the "white racist" theme. I guess I must be a self hating white then

Wtf ARE "white interests" ?

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

Automation. Not trade policy. And it effects people of all races equally.

Next.

to understand that, he'd have to not be parroting rightwingnut dogma.... and he'd have to be informed... .neither of those things is ever going to happen

and we might also mention the fact that his orange sociopath and his complicit daughter, the focus of his lust, manufacture their goods overseas.

they're such dupes

I very much understand the effect automation has had on manufacturing employment and I understand that it is not the same in the US as it is in say, Germany.

Are the germans kicking ass because they use old school manual labor intensive manufacturing techniques?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Automation is part of the loss of jobs, poor trade policy is also part of it, a part that can be fixed.

It's a bit deeper than that. We Americans are obsessed with low prices. Manufacturers only give us what we want. Reducing labor through automation or outsourcing is the number one way to reduce costs and price of products.

 

[JoeB131]

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.

Except, of course, the reason why 87% of the manufacturing jobs vanished was because of process improvement and automation.

Also- white people don't really want to do manufacturing jobs. Last company I worked for was manufacturing, and half the employees were Hispanic, the other half were Indian. White people didn't want to work those kinds of hours for what they were paying to essentially do a job that that was sort of repetitive.

My guess, though, is that you don't go into WalMart and only buy the things that say, "Made in the USA" on them.

 

[Correll]

Fairly standard response from the Left, ie to ridicule the very idea that whites have interests or needs to have their interest protected or advanced though/by national policy.


This represents a very serious hostility towards white people.

And as it represents the propaganda driven Conventional Wisdom, it shows that part of the problem is that even discussing white interests is Taboo.

And that is quite a problem, for whites, for society , for the nation.


How can you have a stable or just society when it is taboo for the largest single ethnic group to even talk about their interests?

Wow, have to admit this argument is a new stretch on the "white racist" theme. I guess I must be a self hating white then

Wtf ARE "white interests" ?

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

Automation. Not trade policy. And it effects people of all races equally.

Next.

Automation is part of the loss of jobs, poor trade policy is also part of it, a part that can be fixed.

And no, it does NOT effect people of all races equally. Different groups have different economic and social situations so the same situation effects them differently.

You want two Anericas. I'm happy with just one. Core difference between us.

You ridiculed the idea that the largest single ethnic groups has interests or should have their interests represented in national policy.


You are the one that wants two Americas, and for one for of them to be marginalized so that you can advance YOUR agenda without resistance.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I know it somehow makes you feel better to not pick a "side"... but there are sides... there's the side that wants to destroy working class people so they have a never ending supply of cheap labor and an unending supply of wealth...

Yep, and that's what a near open borders policy promotes.

 

[Correll]

Automation is part of the loss of jobs, poor trade policy is also part of it, a part that can be fixed.

It's a bit deeper than that. We Americans are obsessed with low prices. Manufacturers only give us what we want. Reducing labor through automation or outsourcing is the number one way to reduce costs and price of products.

Did you see the WTO Airbus ruling last year? IMO, the mindset revealed by the Europeans shitcanned your theory.


Trump Right on Trade Predators



"Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

This is the voice of economic nationalism. Where is ours?"

 

[LoneLaugher]

Wow, have to admit this argument is a new stretch on the "white racist" theme. I guess I must be a self hating white then

Wtf ARE "white interests" ?

Thanks for asking.

One that has been on my mind a lot recently, has been manufacturing jobs. IMO, the artificial loss of manufacturing jobs due to poor trade policy has been devastating to large segments of the white working poor and middle class.


I regularly visit family who live in an area of the Rust Belt that is very much suffering.

Automation. Not trade policy. And it effects people of all races equally.

Next.

Automation is part of the loss of jobs, poor trade policy is also part of it, a part that can be fixed.

And no, it does NOT effect people of all races equally. Different groups have different economic and social situations so the same situation effects them differently.

You want two Anericas. I'm happy with just one. Core difference between us.

You ridiculed the idea that the largest single ethnic groups has interests or should have their interests represented in national policy.


You are the one that wants two Americas, and for one for of them to be marginalized so that you can advance YOUR agenda without resistance.

I'm a white dude. My agenda includes marginalizing white people? You sure you're not a sociopath?

 

[JoeB131]

You're the one who keeps telling me my life is unhappy, not me.

Ii was talking about property values--not happiness. But of course you don't want to get into that discussion now do you?

Guy, you are always on here bitching about Obama or the darkies or the government... that sounds pretty unhappy to me.

And I did discuss the issue of property values.

We don't have a lot of Hispanics here, but if they do devalue property, it's not nearly as much as blacks do. But to be quite honest, I've never seen a neighborhood go downhill because of Hispanics. Most of the Hispanics here are Puerto Rican, and they are not any trouble at all. You don't see any gang fights with Puerto Ricans, you don't see many murders, you don't see much in the way of violent crime like store and pedestrian armed robberies.

Hey, Ray, keep telling us how totally not racist you are... because that shit never gets old.

For one, I've never heard of any email Limbaugh sent to his maid. If he did, that would have been the stupidest thing he did in his life. But even if what you said was true, asking somebody to buy you illegal narcotics is not against the law. In fact, the state of Florida tried to break the law by having all his medical records confiscated because they had nothing else on him.

Okay, I got to cut you off right here, bud. If you don't know the facts of the case, you really shouldn't comment on them.

Warrants Detail Rush Limbaugh's Drug Use

Limbaugh plead guilty! So what he claims he didn't do is irrelevent. He plead guilty and he got rehab. Which I'm fine with.

The poor people in the ghetto should get the same treatment.

 

[JoeB131]

Did you see the WTO Airbus ruling last year? IMO, the mindset revealed by the Europeans shitcanned your theory.

Again, Boeing gets more subsidies from the government than Airbus does.

 

[JoeB131]

I very much understand the effect automation has had on manufacturing employment and I understand that it is not the same in the US as it is in say, Germany.

Are the germans kicking ass because they use old school manual labor intensive manufacturing techniques?

NO, Germans are kicking ass because while we were teaching our kids about talking snakes, they were teaching their kids math and science.

 

[Mac1958]

Fortunately, at present those of us in the middle are still the numeric majority, and I do sense that our numbers are growing.

Well, that would be wonderful, but I'm not so sure.

I'm seeing partisan politics - and its associated behaviors - infecting our society, our culture, on virtually every level. You can't escape it. And (just anecdotally) I'm seeing friends, associates and clients being more and more likely to just lose their shit and start ranting about political stuff at the tiniest opportunity. Holy crap.

I dunno, I hope you're right.
.

I agree that it is very troubling watching what is going on in our country, it appears that the hate mongers are winning at times. The constant demonizing of a duly elected president has never happened to this extent.

There are parallels in history, the rise of the third reich, Mao's rise to power, Stalin and Mussolini, Pol Pot, the Iranian ayatollahs. In every case the would-be rulers controlled the media and the message and engaged in wide spread indoctrination of the masses.

The question is whether the majority of americans will see through and reject it.

At this point I see zero (0) reason to believe that we'll rise en masse and reject this, because of the very nature of the problem.

The crazed wings have all the passion & energy (due to the fact that they're crazed), and therefore will most likely retain control of the conversation. And if I'm right that more and more people are becoming radicalized, that will only feed on itself.

It's bad enough that the problem has gotten this bad. But worse, when something becomes this deeply cultural, fixing it becomes much tougher.
.

I am hopeful that the recent congressional votes are an indicator that the radicals are losing influence and that sanity is returning. If I am wrong, this country is headed to another civil war, secessions, break up, or worse.

If something violent or historic were to happen, though, I would still argue that it happened by choice, and that it had been instigated by people who chose to push and push and push until something finally broke.

It doesn't have to happen, it is not inevitable. It will be up to us to decide whether ego & ideology are more important than an intact, properly-functioning country, the most successful and prosperous country in the history of the freakin' planet.
.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Automation is part of the loss of jobs, poor trade policy is also part of it, a part that can be fixed.

It's a bit deeper than that. We Americans are obsessed with low prices. Manufacturers only give us what we want. Reducing labor through automation or outsourcing is the number one way to reduce costs and price of products.

Did you see the WTO Airbus ruling last year? IMO, the mindset revealed by the Europeans shitcanned your theory.


Trump Right on Trade Predators



"Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

This is the voice of economic nationalism. Where is ours?"

Well I work with manufacturing every day. Our customers are always trying to make things cheaper to compete with foreign entities. This is especially true with companies that deal with Walmart. Walmart is always on their asses to make things cheaper. If they don't, Walmart drops their account and goes to a manufacturer that will make products cheaper.

In fact this past year, one of our customers lost an account because of Walmart. They cut their prices as much as they could to keep the account, but to no success. That was about three trailer loads a week we lost because of it.

If we stuck together, we could solve our manufacturing problem, but we collectively won't because price is paramount in our purchases. Now we have a new problem which is brick and mortar stores. Everybody is buying online for convenience and pricing.