Two questions for theists

[Thunderbird]

see, I don't. I prefer order, and reason, and logic.

This is the sort of statement that makes atheists look arrogant and silly. Many theists value reason and some atheists are intolerant and unfamiliar with logic.

 

[hobelim]

A couple of questions for believers.

1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.

I do understand that you are finding fault with God simply for arguments sake. Still, I'll play along.

I see that your problem is with the perception of time which magnifies the relevance and distorts out of proportion your subjective perception of suffering and evil.

What if the most horrible suffering imaginable lasted 20, 30, 50, or even 200 years? What is it really when compared to eternity?

Nothing.


The purpose for all that suffering might be as simple as the purpose for slapping a baby on its ass, so to speak, to encourage life and inspire living, in the grand scheme of things a fleeting moment. Nothing when compared to all the unexplored wonders of living in this realm that awaits it.


In the same way all of your suffering, your trials and tribulations, your pain and sorrow in this realm are only a momentary precursor to a greater awakening. A preparation for the day when you are released from the confinement of this mortal coil and take your first breaths of life into your nostrils as an eternal living being.



Much of what causes people pain and a sense of loss is from attachments to what they can never possess forever.


you might not realize this but the fact that people suffer and die on this planet is evidence of a loving and merciful God.


If you could live forever free of pain on this planet you would be praying for death before you turned 200 years old. After an eon has passed, you would have gone completely insane epochs ago, literally burning alive in sulfurous flames.

 

[ding]

I believe in the flying spaghetti monster, as the creator of all time and space with out any proof. I like Spaghetti that much . We Pastafarians are like that.

But I have offered you proof, Mary. Your life is like that shrub. You need to be pruned before the new growth can occur. Sure it is painful. Some branches were like twigs and they snapped right off, but others were thick and needed to be sawed off. And sure, right after you were pruned, your life seemed like shit, but after a few months, your life became more full and more vibrant than it was before. You don't need to look any further than yourself for signs of God, Mary. Of course some people don't take to the pruning, Mary. In those cases God will continue to return you to the lesson until it takes.

And don't forget, Mary, laughing leads to crying.

 

[Czernobog]

So, basically, you are saying that the, supposedly, benevolent God, plopped us here, left us to our own devices, and whatever we do we do, it's not his problem. His attitude is, Not my circus, not my monkeys". That's the extent of it. And you still maintain that this is a benevolent God?

.

So, basically, you are saying that the, supposedly, benevolent God, plopped us here, left us to our own devices, and whatever we do we do, it's not his problem. His attitude is, Not my circus, not my monkeys". That's the extent of it. And you still maintain that this is a benevolent God?

the discussion would have to begin somewhere - and is inclusive for all beings, both Flora and Fauna.

as well the Apex of Knowledge would be necessary to accomplish for a Spirit to be set free.

the Genome of Life gave us our beginning and is somewhere a Free Spirit is able to return to in time.


so you believe you exist as a physiology that is "aware" but has no other destiny possible but extinction. no aspirations are possible.

[SIC] pagan theists

I suggest you stop associating with pagan theists.

I prefer to not associate with theists of any flavour, thanks...

You sure like to associate with theists here on this board, either that or you are an insincere troll.

Ya know, my first reaction was to respond in kind, but, the reality is I asked two valid questions. I'm sorry that you are incapable of providing rational answers. Perhaps the problem isn't my being a troll, but you having an irrational belief system. I've found that when irrational people have their beliefs challenged in ways they can't defend, their first reaction is to lash out, like you have.

 

[Czernobog]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

I actually did answer your question. I actually pointed out the irrationality of both of your points. You just didn't like my answers.

 

[Czernobog]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

If what you are stating is factually true, the last century would have eliminated all religions.

You underestimate the effectiveness of indoctrinating children at an early enough age in keeping religion alive.

 

[Czernobog]

[SIC] pagan theists

I suggest you stop associating with pagan theists.

I prefer to not associate with theists of any flavour, thanks...

Then why start this thread?

I just figured one smartass non-response deserved another.

It's obvious you started this thread simply to express your point of view.

I started this thread to offer an opportunity to explain a position that seems to be irrational.

 

[Czernobog]

I prefer to not associate with theists of any flavour, thanks...

Then why start this thread?

I just figured one smartass non-response deserved another.

It's obvious you started this thread simply to express your point of view.

.

It's obvious you started this thread simply to express your point of view.

is there something wrong with that ...

When one starts off a discussion with an insult?
Not at all...

how were the questions insults? So, any challenge to your belief is an insult? That's rather telling...

 

[Czernobog]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

If what you are stating is factually true, the last century would have eliminated all religions.

We are still a very young species just figuring things out. Still very superstitious.
Ask how many people believe in ghosts for example.

.

We are still a very young species just figuring things out. Still very superstitious.
Ask how many people believe in ghosts for example.

a period where the desert religions are dismissed would more likely lead to a better understanding for the goals set out for life and where those goals are leading humanity - than letting those corrupt religions cause our untimely demise.

According to Sealy, Islam and The Roman Catholic Church should have eliminated religion.
Such has not occurred,

I don't believe he, at any time, said that...

 

[Czernobog]

I am doing science and I am still alive. God, no proof what so ever.

I'm not concerned without a reply.

I am still here, the magic Winnie dog pig from the purple beyond hasn't smited me yet

I am doing science and I am still alive. God, no proof what so ever.

There is plenty of proof. You just don't accept it. Have you ever created anything? Can what you created be used as evidence? Can we learn something about you from what you created? Can't we use science to examine what you created? Can I learn how you did it? Can I learn how many steps it took? Can I learn your level of intelligence from it? Can I learn your level of craftsmanship from it? Can I know that what you created was the realization of your intention? And finally, can I learn why you created it? What it's purpose was?

So you see, there is plenty of evidence. I haven't even touched on the part about how you can know God from your own experiences. You seem to be avoiding that conversation. It makes me wonder if you really are interested in doing what you say.

All the evidence of god's existence is purely existential, er I mean purely subjective. Same thing.

What evidence would you accept for a supernatural being who created existence?

No supernatural event in Scripture ever had a long lasting effect.

You sure about that?

 

[MaryL]

I believe in the flying spaghetti monster, as the creator of all time and space with out any proof. I like Spaghetti that much . We Pastafarians are like that.

But I have offered you proof, Mary. Your life is like that shrub. You need to be pruned before the new growth can occur. Sure it is painful. Some branches were like twigs and they snapped right off, but others were thick and needed to be sawed off. And sure, right after you were pruned, your life seemed like shit, but after a few months, your life became more full and more vibrant than it was before. You don't need to look any further than yourself for signs of God, Mary. Of course some people don't take to the pruning, Mary. In those cases God will continue to return you to the lesson until it takes.

And don't forget, Mary, laughing leads to crying.

I reserve tears for my mother's grave. The dead live in our dreams. Heaven or Ragnorok or forty virgins for Allah, all just religious delusions.

 

[Czernobog]

A couple of questions for believers.

1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.

I do understand that you are finding fault with God simply for arguments sake. Still, I'll play along.

I see that your problem is with the perception of time which magnifies the relevance and distorts out of proportion your subjective perception of suffering and evil.

What if the most horrible suffering imaginable lasted 20, 30, 50, or even 200 years? What is it really when compared to eternity?

Nothing.


The purpose for all that suffering might be as simple as the purpose for slapping a baby on its ass, so to speak, to encourage life and inspire living, in the grand scheme of things a fleeting moment. Nothing when compared to all the unexplored wonders of living in this realm that awaits it.


In the same way all of your suffering, your trials and tribulations, your pain and sorrow in this realm are only a momentary precursor to a greater awakening. A preparation for the day when you are released from the confinement of this mortal coil and take your first breaths of life into your nostrils as an eternal living being.



Much of what causes people pain and a sense of loss is from attachments to what they can never possess forever.


you might not realize this but the fact that people suffer and die on this planet is evidence of a loving and merciful God.


If you could live forever free of pain on this planet you would be praying for death before you turned 200 years old. After an eon has passed, you would have gone completely insane epochs ago, literally burning alive in sulfurous flames.

You do get that the entirety of your response can be summed up, pretty much, by, "Oh, get over yourself, you whiners! You got a little booboo. Shrug it off. Things are going to be okay after you get to the Good Place! So, suck it up!"

Really?!?! You really believe that to be a sufficient response to grieving family, or traumatized victims? Really???

 

[ding]

I believe in the flying spaghetti monster, as the creator of all time and space with out any proof. I like Spaghetti that much . We Pastafarians are like that.

But I have offered you proof, Mary. Your life is like that shrub. You need to be pruned before the new growth can occur. Sure it is painful. Some branches were like twigs and they snapped right off, but others were thick and needed to be sawed off. And sure, right after you were pruned, your life seemed like shit, but after a few months, your life became more full and more vibrant than it was before. You don't need to look any further than yourself for signs of God, Mary. Of course some people don't take to the pruning, Mary. In those cases God will continue to return you to the lesson until it takes.

And don't forget, Mary, laughing leads to crying.

I reserve tears for my mother's grave. The dead live in our dreams. Heaven or Ragnorok or forty virgins for Allah, all just religious delusions.

I always thought that to deny existence itself was the delusion. But putting that aside, you are without excuse as there is no evidence you will accept. The fault lies within you.

 

[hobelim]

A couple of questions for believers.

1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.

I do understand that you are finding fault with God simply for arguments sake. Still, I'll play along.

I see that your problem is with the perception of time which magnifies the relevance and distorts out of proportion your subjective perception of suffering and evil.

What if the most horrible suffering imaginable lasted 20, 30, 50, or even 200 years? What is it really when compared to eternity?

Nothing.


The purpose for all that suffering might be as simple as the purpose for slapping a baby on its ass, so to speak, to encourage life and inspire living, in the grand scheme of things a fleeting moment. Nothing when compared to all the unexplored wonders of living in this realm that awaits it.


In the same way all of your suffering, your trials and tribulations, your pain and sorrow in this realm are only a momentary precursor to a greater awakening. A preparation for the day when you are released from the confinement of this mortal coil and take your first breaths of life into your nostrils as an eternal living being.



Much of what causes people pain and a sense of loss is from attachments to what they can never possess forever.


you might not realize this but the fact that people suffer and die on this planet is evidence of a loving and merciful God.


If you could live forever free of pain on this planet you would be praying for death before you turned 200 years old. After an eon has passed, you would have gone completely insane epochs ago, literally burning alive in sulfurous flames.

You do get that the entirety of your response can be summed up, pretty much, by, "Oh, get over yourself, you whiners! You got a little booboo. Shrug it off. Things are going to be okay after you get to the Good Place! So, suck it up!"

Really?!?! You really believe that to be a sufficient response to grieving family, or traumatized victims? Really???

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

 

[Czernobog]

Except that theists insist that it wasn't. Theists insist that the entire universe was created for the sole purpose of us - that we are the pinnacle of that creative process.

You don't seem to understand the fine-tuning argument at all. The fine-tuning argument says the universe was designed to produce life, not just humans.

That wasn't meant to be in reference to, specifically, the fine-tuning argument in defence of divinity. That was meant as a general position of theists - particularly Christian theists. Are you seriously telling me that Christians do not teach that humanity is, in fact, the culmination, and purpose of all creation? Really?

if the earth were one mile closer, or one mile further from the sun...", "...if the earth had two moons, instead of one...",

This is not part of the argument presented in the site I linked to. Maybe that's the source of your confusion.

Those are examples of exactly the fine-tuning argument: The fine-tuned Universe is the proposition that the conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur when certain universal dimensionless physical constants lie within a very narrow range, so that if any of several fundamental constants were only slightly different, the Universe would be unlikely to be conducive to the establishment and development of matter, astronomical structures, elemental diversity, or life as it is understood.
The bottom line is that nothing in the fine-tuned theory precludes a designer.

 

[ding]

"If, as claimed by humanism, man were born only to be happy, he would not be born to die. Since his body is doomed to death, his task on earth evidently must be more spiritual: not a total engrossment in everyday life, not the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then their carefree consumption. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become above all an experience of moral growth: to leave life a better human being than one started it." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

 

[Czernobog]

A couple of questions for believers.

1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.

I do understand that you are finding fault with God simply for arguments sake. Still, I'll play along.

I see that your problem is with the perception of time which magnifies the relevance and distorts out of proportion your subjective perception of suffering and evil.

What if the most horrible suffering imaginable lasted 20, 30, 50, or even 200 years? What is it really when compared to eternity?

Nothing.


The purpose for all that suffering might be as simple as the purpose for slapping a baby on its ass, so to speak, to encourage life and inspire living, in the grand scheme of things a fleeting moment. Nothing when compared to all the unexplored wonders of living in this realm that awaits it.


In the same way all of your suffering, your trials and tribulations, your pain and sorrow in this realm are only a momentary precursor to a greater awakening. A preparation for the day when you are released from the confinement of this mortal coil and take your first breaths of life into your nostrils as an eternal living being.



Much of what causes people pain and a sense of loss is from attachments to what they can never possess forever.


you might not realize this but the fact that people suffer and die on this planet is evidence of a loving and merciful God.


If you could live forever free of pain on this planet you would be praying for death before you turned 200 years old. After an eon has passed, you would have gone completely insane epochs ago, literally burning alive in sulfurous flames.

You do get that the entirety of your response can be summed up, pretty much, by, "Oh, get over yourself, you whiners! You got a little booboo. Shrug it off. Things are going to be okay after you get to the Good Place! So, suck it up!"

Really?!?! You really believe that to be a sufficient response to grieving family, or traumatized victims? Really???

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

 

[ding]

A couple of questions for believers.

1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.

I do understand that you are finding fault with God simply for arguments sake. Still, I'll play along.

I see that your problem is with the perception of time which magnifies the relevance and distorts out of proportion your subjective perception of suffering and evil.

What if the most horrible suffering imaginable lasted 20, 30, 50, or even 200 years? What is it really when compared to eternity?

Nothing.


The purpose for all that suffering might be as simple as the purpose for slapping a baby on its ass, so to speak, to encourage life and inspire living, in the grand scheme of things a fleeting moment. Nothing when compared to all the unexplored wonders of living in this realm that awaits it.


In the same way all of your suffering, your trials and tribulations, your pain and sorrow in this realm are only a momentary precursor to a greater awakening. A preparation for the day when you are released from the confinement of this mortal coil and take your first breaths of life into your nostrils as an eternal living being.



Much of what causes people pain and a sense of loss is from attachments to what they can never possess forever.


you might not realize this but the fact that people suffer and die on this planet is evidence of a loving and merciful God.


If you could live forever free of pain on this planet you would be praying for death before you turned 200 years old. After an eon has passed, you would have gone completely insane epochs ago, literally burning alive in sulfurous flames.

You do get that the entirety of your response can be summed up, pretty much, by, "Oh, get over yourself, you whiners! You got a little booboo. Shrug it off. Things are going to be okay after you get to the Good Place! So, suck it up!"

Really?!?! You really believe that to be a sufficient response to grieving family, or traumatized victims? Really???

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

 

[hobelim]

A couple of questions for believers.

1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.

I do understand that you are finding fault with God simply for arguments sake. Still, I'll play along.

I see that your problem is with the perception of time which magnifies the relevance and distorts out of proportion your subjective perception of suffering and evil.

What if the most horrible suffering imaginable lasted 20, 30, 50, or even 200 years? What is it really when compared to eternity?

Nothing.


The purpose for all that suffering might be as simple as the purpose for slapping a baby on its ass, so to speak, to encourage life and inspire living, in the grand scheme of things a fleeting moment. Nothing when compared to all the unexplored wonders of living in this realm that awaits it.


In the same way all of your suffering, your trials and tribulations, your pain and sorrow in this realm are only a momentary precursor to a greater awakening. A preparation for the day when you are released from the confinement of this mortal coil and take your first breaths of life into your nostrils as an eternal living being.



Much of what causes people pain and a sense of loss is from attachments to what they can never possess forever.


you might not realize this but the fact that people suffer and die on this planet is evidence of a loving and merciful God.


If you could live forever free of pain on this planet you would be praying for death before you turned 200 years old. After an eon has passed, you would have gone completely insane epochs ago, literally burning alive in sulfurous flames.

You do get that the entirety of your response can be summed up, pretty much, by, "Oh, get over yourself, you whiners! You got a little booboo. Shrug it off. Things are going to be okay after you get to the Good Place! So, suck it up!"

Really?!?! You really believe that to be a sufficient response to grieving family, or traumatized victims? Really???

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

Are we grown ups here or not?

Would you prefer I told you a nice bedtime story and gave you a glass of warm milk?

 

[ding]

A couple of questions for believers.

1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.

I do understand that you are finding fault with God simply for arguments sake. Still, I'll play along.

I see that your problem is with the perception of time which magnifies the relevance and distorts out of proportion your subjective perception of suffering and evil.

What if the most horrible suffering imaginable lasted 20, 30, 50, or even 200 years? What is it really when compared to eternity?

Nothing.


The purpose for all that suffering might be as simple as the purpose for slapping a baby on its ass, so to speak, to encourage life and inspire living, in the grand scheme of things a fleeting moment. Nothing when compared to all the unexplored wonders of living in this realm that awaits it.


In the same way all of your suffering, your trials and tribulations, your pain and sorrow in this realm are only a momentary precursor to a greater awakening. A preparation for the day when you are released from the confinement of this mortal coil and take your first breaths of life into your nostrils as an eternal living being.



Much of what causes people pain and a sense of loss is from attachments to what they can never possess forever.


you might not realize this but the fact that people suffer and die on this planet is evidence of a loving and merciful God.


If you could live forever free of pain on this planet you would be praying for death before you turned 200 years old. After an eon has passed, you would have gone completely insane epochs ago, literally burning alive in sulfurous flames.

You do get that the entirety of your response can be summed up, pretty much, by, "Oh, get over yourself, you whiners! You got a little booboo. Shrug it off. Things are going to be okay after you get to the Good Place! So, suck it up!"

Really?!?! You really believe that to be a sufficient response to grieving family, or traumatized victims? Really???

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

Are we grown ups here or not?

Would you prefer I told you a nice bedtime story and gave you a glass of warm milk?