Two questions for theists

[Czernobog]

So, basically, you are saying that the, supposedly, benevolent God, plopped us here, left us to our own devices, and whatever we do we do, it's not his problem. His attitude is, Not my circus, not my monkeys". That's the extent of it. And you still maintain that this is a benevolent God?

.

So, basically, you are saying that the, supposedly, benevolent God, plopped us here, left us to our own devices, and whatever we do we do, it's not his problem. His attitude is, Not my circus, not my monkeys". That's the extent of it. And you still maintain that this is a benevolent God?

the discussion would have to begin somewhere - and is inclusive for all beings, both Flora and Fauna.

as well the Apex of Knowledge would be necessary to accomplish for a Spirit to be set free.

the Genome of Life gave us our beginning and is somewhere a Free Spirit is able to return to in time.


so you believe you exist as a physiology that is "aware" but has no other destiny possible but extinction. no aspirations are possible.

[SIC] pagan theists

I suggest you stop associating with pagan theists.

I prefer to not associate with theists of any flavour, thanks...

Then why start this thread?

I just figured one smartass non-response deserved another.

 

[Indeependent]

.
the discussion would have to begin somewhere - and is inclusive for all beings, both Flora and Fauna.

as well the Apex of Knowledge would be necessary to accomplish for a Spirit to be set free.

the Genome of Life gave us our beginning and is somewhere a Free Spirit is able to return to in time.


so you believe you exist as a physiology that is "aware" but has no other destiny possible but extinction. no aspirations are possible.

[SIC] pagan theists

I suggest you stop associating with pagan theists.

I prefer to not associate with theists of any flavour, thanks...

Then why start this thread?

I just figured one smartass non-response deserved another.

It's obvious you started this thread simply to express your point of view.

 

[BreezeWood]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

If what you are stating is factually true, the last century would have eliminated all religions.

We are still a very young species just figuring things out. Still very superstitious.
Ask how many people believe in ghosts for example.

.

We are still a very young species just figuring things out. Still very superstitious.
Ask how many people believe in ghosts for example.

a period where the desert religions are dismissed would more likely lead to a better understanding for the goals set out for life and where those goals are leading humanity - than letting those corrupt religions cause our untimely demise.

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

Is it your belief that unless everything is perfect there can be no God?

No, there could still be a creator. Just not the god your religion describes. The god you say wouldn't have designed us to murder and rape. It would be so easy to make people like you or me. Not sociopathic.

And no kids wouldn't get cancer. A god who cared wouldn't do that.

And the kid across the hall from me so fucked up he blew his brains out. And then some people in your religion say he's burning in hell now for all eternity.

Nothing disproves a creator but common sense disproves any story you tell me

 

[ding]

.
the discussion would have to begin somewhere - and is inclusive for all beings, both Flora and Fauna.

as well the Apex of Knowledge would be necessary to accomplish for a Spirit to be set free.

the Genome of Life gave us our beginning and is somewhere a Free Spirit is able to return to in time.


so you believe you exist as a physiology that is "aware" but has no other destiny possible but extinction. no aspirations are possible.

[SIC] pagan theists

I suggest you stop associating with pagan theists.

I prefer to not associate with theists of any flavour, thanks...

Then why start this thread?

I just figured one smartass non-response deserved another.

Given that you condemn respect for people of faith, I think we all believe you spoke the truth.

 

[Indeependent]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

If what you are stating is factually true, the last century would have eliminated all religions.

We are still a very young species just figuring things out. Still very superstitious.
Ask how many people believe in ghosts for example.

.

We are still a very young species just figuring things out. Still very superstitious.
Ask how many people believe in ghosts for example.

a period where the desert religions are dismissed would more likely lead to a better understanding for the goals set out for life and where those goals are leading humanity - than letting those corrupt religions cause our untimely demise.

According to Sealy, Islam and The Roman Catholic Church should have eliminated religion.
Such has not occurred,

 

[ding]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

Is it your belief that unless everything is perfect there can be no God?

No, there could still be a creator. Just not the god your religion describes. The god you say wouldn't have designed us to murder and rape. It would be so easy to make people like you or me. Not sociopathic.

And no kids wouldn't get cancer. A god who cared wouldn't do that.

And the kid across the hall from me so fucked up he blew his brains out. And then some people in your religion say he's burning in hell now for all eternity.

Nothing disproves a creator but common sense disproves any story you tell me

So because cancer exists there can be no God. Do I understand you correctly?

 

[BreezeWood]

[SIC] pagan theists

I suggest you stop associating with pagan theists.

I prefer to not associate with theists of any flavour, thanks...

Then why start this thread?

I just figured one smartass non-response deserved another.

It's obvious you started this thread simply to express your point of view.

.

It's obvious you started this thread simply to express your point of view.

is there something wrong with that ...

 

[Indeependent]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

Is it your belief that unless everything is perfect there can be no God?

No, there could still be a creator. Just not the god your religion describes. The god you say wouldn't have designed us to murder and rape. It would be so easy to make people like you or me. Not sociopathic.

And no kids wouldn't get cancer. A god who cared wouldn't do that.

And the kid across the hall from me so fucked up he blew his brains out. And then some people in your religion say he's burning in hell now for all eternity.

Nothing disproves a creator but common sense disproves any story you tell me

Does death ruin it for you?
If so, would you be happy with immortality?
How many years would you like to live?

 

[Indeependent]

I suggest you stop associating with pagan theists.

I prefer to not associate with theists of any flavour, thanks...

Then why start this thread?

I just figured one smartass non-response deserved another.

It's obvious you started this thread simply to express your point of view.

.

It's obvious you started this thread simply to express your point of view.

is there something wrong with that ...

When one starts off a discussion with an insult?
Not at all...

 

[MaryL]

I am doing science and I am still alive. God, no proof what so ever.

I'm not concerned without a reply.

I am still here, the magic Winnie dog pig from the purple beyond hasn't smited me yet

I am doing science and I am still alive. God, no proof what so ever.

There is plenty of proof. You just don't accept it. Have you ever created anything? Can what you created be used as evidence? Can we learn something about you from what you created? Can't we use science to examine what you created? Can I learn how you did it? Can I learn how many steps it took? Can I learn your level of intelligence from it? Can I learn your level of craftsmanship from it? Can I know that what you created was the realization of your intention? And finally, can I learn why you created it? What it's purpose was?

So you see, there is plenty of evidence. I haven't even touched on the part about how you can know God from your own experiences. You seem to be avoiding that conversation. It makes me wonder if you really are interested in doing what you say.

All the evidence of god's existence is purely existential, er I mean purely subjective. Same thing.

 

[Indeependent]

I am doing science and I am still alive. God, no proof what so ever.

I'm not concerned without a reply.

I am still here, the magic Winnie dog pig from the purple beyond hasn't smited me yet

I am doing science and I am still alive. God, no proof what so ever.

There is plenty of proof. You just don't accept it. Have you ever created anything? Can what you created be used as evidence? Can we learn something about you from what you created? Can't we use science to examine what you created? Can I learn how you did it? Can I learn how many steps it took? Can I learn your level of intelligence from it? Can I learn your level of craftsmanship from it? Can I know that what you created was the realization of your intention? And finally, can I learn why you created it? What it's purpose was?

So you see, there is plenty of evidence. I haven't even touched on the part about how you can know God from your own experiences. You seem to be avoiding that conversation. It makes me wonder if you really are interested in doing what you say.

All the evidence of god's existence is purely existential, er I mean purely subjective. Same thing.

We are subjective life forms.

 

[ding]

I am doing science and I am still alive. God, no proof what so ever.

I'm not concerned without a reply.

I am still here, the magic Winnie dog pig from the purple beyond hasn't smited me yet

I am doing science and I am still alive. God, no proof what so ever.

There is plenty of proof. You just don't accept it. Have you ever created anything? Can what you created be used as evidence? Can we learn something about you from what you created? Can't we use science to examine what you created? Can I learn how you did it? Can I learn how many steps it took? Can I learn your level of intelligence from it? Can I learn your level of craftsmanship from it? Can I know that what you created was the realization of your intention? And finally, can I learn why you created it? What it's purpose was?

So you see, there is plenty of evidence. I haven't even touched on the part about how you can know God from your own experiences. You seem to be avoiding that conversation. It makes me wonder if you really are interested in doing what you say.

All the evidence of god's existence is purely existential, er I mean purely subjective. Same thing.

What evidence would you accept for a supernatural being who created existence?

 

[Indeependent]

I am doing science and I am still alive. God, no proof what so ever.

I'm not concerned without a reply.

I am still here, the magic Winnie dog pig from the purple beyond hasn't smited me yet

I am doing science and I am still alive. God, no proof what so ever.

There is plenty of proof. You just don't accept it. Have you ever created anything? Can what you created be used as evidence? Can we learn something about you from what you created? Can't we use science to examine what you created? Can I learn how you did it? Can I learn how many steps it took? Can I learn your level of intelligence from it? Can I learn your level of craftsmanship from it? Can I know that what you created was the realization of your intention? And finally, can I learn why you created it? What it's purpose was?

So you see, there is plenty of evidence. I haven't even touched on the part about how you can know God from your own experiences. You seem to be avoiding that conversation. It makes me wonder if you really are interested in doing what you say.

All the evidence of god's existence is purely existential, er I mean purely subjective. Same thing.

What evidence would you accept for a supernatural being who created existence?

No supernatural event in Scripture ever had a long lasting effect.

 

[BreezeWood]

I prefer to not associate with theists of any flavour, thanks...

Then why start this thread?

I just figured one smartass non-response deserved another.

It's obvious you started this thread simply to express your point of view.

.

It's obvious you started this thread simply to express your point of view.

is there something wrong with that ...

When one starts off a discussion with an insult?
Not at all...

.

When one starts off a discussion with an insult?
Not at all...

A couple of questions for believers.

I'm not sure you are being honest with your assessment ... other than having a predetermined dialogue the goal is to find the answers and hopefully repute what are nothing more than antisocial morays disguised as religions.

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

If what you are stating is factually true, the last century would have eliminated all religions.

We are still a very young species just figuring things out. Still very superstitious.
Ask how many people believe in ghosts for example.

You don't get to skip around without answering your own prior statement.

I don't think anything will eliminate religions. They are the perfect business. They offer a great service to people and I don't see that going away. I think Muslims and Mormons are here to stay

 

[Thunderbird]

Except that theists insist that it wasn't. Theists insist that the entire universe was created for the sole purpose of us - that we are the pinnacle of that creative process.

You don't seem to understand the fine-tuning argument at all. The fine-tuning argument says the universe was designed to produce life, not just humans.

if the earth were one mile closer, or one mile further from the sun...", "...if the earth had two moons, instead of one...",

This is not part of the argument presented in the site I linked to. Maybe that's the source of your confusion.

 

[Indeependent]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

If what you are stating is factually true, the last century would have eliminated all religions.

We are still a very young species just figuring things out. Still very superstitious.
Ask how many people believe in ghosts for example.

You don't get to skip around without answering your own prior statement.

I don't think anything will eliminate religions. They are the perfect business. They offer a great service to people and I don't see that going away. I think Muslims and Mormons are here to stay

You just contradicted your statement that horrendous events will cause people to reject the existence of God.
Take a step back and redefine what you really mean.

 

[MaryL]

I believe in the flying spaghetti monster, as the creator of all time and space with out any proof. I like Spaghetti that much . We Pastafarians are like that.

 

[BreezeWood]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

If what you are stating is factually true, the last century would have eliminated all religions.

We are still a very young species just figuring things out. Still very superstitious.
Ask how many people believe in ghosts for example.

You don't get to skip around without answering your own prior statement.

I don't think anything will eliminate religions. They are the perfect business. They offer a great service to people and I don't see that going away. I think Muslims and Mormons are here to stay

.

I don't think anything will eliminate religions. They are the perfect business. They offer a great service to people and I don't see that going away. I think Muslims and Mormons are here to stay

you are probably correct especially when they are more negative than positive it makes them that much harder to get rid of.