Two questions for theists

[MaryL]

I believe in the flying spaghetti monster, as the creator of all time and space with out any proof. I like Spaghetti that much . We Pastafarians are like that.

But I have offered you proof, Mary. Your life is like that shrub. You need to be pruned before the new growth can occur. Sure it is painful. Some branches were like twigs and they snapped right off, but others were thick and needed to be sawed off. And sure, right after you were pruned, your life seemed like shit, but after a few months, your life became more full and more vibrant than it was before. You don't need to look any further than yourself for signs of God, Mary. Of course some people don't take to the pruning, Mary. In those cases God will continue to return you to the lesson until it takes.

And don't forget, Mary, laughing leads to crying.

I reserve tears for my mother's grave. The dead live in our dreams. Heaven or Ragnorok or forty virgins for Allah, all just religious delusions.

I always thought that to deny existence itself was the delusion. But putting that aside, you are without excuse as there is no evidence you will accept. The fault lies within you.

There IS NO proof god exists. There is no religious equivalent to 2+2 =4. Not seeing god in math and physics or the basic hard mechanics of the machine we are using NOW, men made that, from hard fought and hard thought out reality, not religious hoodoo.

 

[Czernobog]

A couple of questions for believers.

1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.

I do understand that you are finding fault with God simply for arguments sake. Still, I'll play along.

I see that your problem is with the perception of time which magnifies the relevance and distorts out of proportion your subjective perception of suffering and evil.

What if the most horrible suffering imaginable lasted 20, 30, 50, or even 200 years? What is it really when compared to eternity?

Nothing.


The purpose for all that suffering might be as simple as the purpose for slapping a baby on its ass, so to speak, to encourage life and inspire living, in the grand scheme of things a fleeting moment. Nothing when compared to all the unexplored wonders of living in this realm that awaits it.


In the same way all of your suffering, your trials and tribulations, your pain and sorrow in this realm are only a momentary precursor to a greater awakening. A preparation for the day when you are released from the confinement of this mortal coil and take your first breaths of life into your nostrils as an eternal living being.



Much of what causes people pain and a sense of loss is from attachments to what they can never possess forever.


you might not realize this but the fact that people suffer and die on this planet is evidence of a loving and merciful God.


If you could live forever free of pain on this planet you would be praying for death before you turned 200 years old. After an eon has passed, you would have gone completely insane epochs ago, literally burning alive in sulfurous flames.

You do get that the entirety of your response can be summed up, pretty much, by, "Oh, get over yourself, you whiners! You got a little booboo. Shrug it off. Things are going to be okay after you get to the Good Place! So, suck it up!"

Really?!?! You really believe that to be a sufficient response to grieving family, or traumatized victims? Really???

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

Are we grown ups here or not?

Would you prefer I told you a nice bedtime story and gave you a glass of warm milk?

You realize you are not offering a "loving" God. You're presenting an authoritarian God who, knowingly created this shithole of a reality, populated with sociopaths, monsters, and killers. Then expects us to just "deal with it", and say "Thank you, Sir. May I have another," with some vague promise that, after this, there is an eternity of "better" on the other side. You get that, right?

Fuck! Your version of theism is less appealing than the fairy tales the mainstream Christians want to feed us! I absolutely want to tell your God to fuck off!

 

[ding]

I do understand that you are finding fault with God simply for arguments sake. Still, I'll play along.

I see that your problem is with the perception of time which magnifies the relevance and distorts out of proportion your subjective perception of suffering and evil.

What if the most horrible suffering imaginable lasted 20, 30, 50, or even 200 years? What is it really when compared to eternity?

Nothing.


The purpose for all that suffering might be as simple as the purpose for slapping a baby on its ass, so to speak, to encourage life and inspire living, in the grand scheme of things a fleeting moment. Nothing when compared to all the unexplored wonders of living in this realm that awaits it.


In the same way all of your suffering, your trials and tribulations, your pain and sorrow in this realm are only a momentary precursor to a greater awakening. A preparation for the day when you are released from the confinement of this mortal coil and take your first breaths of life into your nostrils as an eternal living being.



Much of what causes people pain and a sense of loss is from attachments to what they can never possess forever.


you might not realize this but the fact that people suffer and die on this planet is evidence of a loving and merciful God.


If you could live forever free of pain on this planet you would be praying for death before you turned 200 years old. After an eon has passed, you would have gone completely insane epochs ago, literally burning alive in sulfurous flames.

You do get that the entirety of your response can be summed up, pretty much, by, "Oh, get over yourself, you whiners! You got a little booboo. Shrug it off. Things are going to be okay after you get to the Good Place! So, suck it up!"

Really?!?! You really believe that to be a sufficient response to grieving family, or traumatized victims? Really???

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

Are we grown ups here or not?

Would you prefer I told you a nice bedtime story and gave you a glass of warm milk?

You realize you are not offering a "loving" God. You're presenting an authoritarian God who, knowingly created this shithole of a reality, populated with sociopaths, monsters, and killers. Then expects us to just "deal with it", and say "Thank you, Sir. May I have another," with some vague promise that, after this, there is an eternity of "better" on the other side. You get that, right?

Fuck! Your version of theism is less appealing than the fairy tales the mainstream Christians want to feed us!

 

[ding]

I believe in the flying spaghetti monster, as the creator of all time and space with out any proof. I like Spaghetti that much . We Pastafarians are like that.

But I have offered you proof, Mary. Your life is like that shrub. You need to be pruned before the new growth can occur. Sure it is painful. Some branches were like twigs and they snapped right off, but others were thick and needed to be sawed off. And sure, right after you were pruned, your life seemed like shit, but after a few months, your life became more full and more vibrant than it was before. You don't need to look any further than yourself for signs of God, Mary. Of course some people don't take to the pruning, Mary. In those cases God will continue to return you to the lesson until it takes.

And don't forget, Mary, laughing leads to crying.

I reserve tears for my mother's grave. The dead live in our dreams. Heaven or Ragnorok or forty virgins for Allah, all just religious delusions.

I always thought that to deny existence itself was the delusion. But putting that aside, you are without excuse as there is no evidence you will accept. The fault lies within you.

There IS NO proof god exists. There is no religious equivalent to 2+2 =4. Not seeing god in math and physics or the basic hard mechanics of the machine we are using NOW, men made that, from hard fought and hard thought out reality, not religious hoodoo.

Then why are you asking for proof, sweetheart?

 

[hobelim]

I do understand that you are finding fault with God simply for arguments sake. Still, I'll play along.

I see that your problem is with the perception of time which magnifies the relevance and distorts out of proportion your subjective perception of suffering and evil.

What if the most horrible suffering imaginable lasted 20, 30, 50, or even 200 years? What is it really when compared to eternity?

Nothing.


The purpose for all that suffering might be as simple as the purpose for slapping a baby on its ass, so to speak, to encourage life and inspire living, in the grand scheme of things a fleeting moment. Nothing when compared to all the unexplored wonders of living in this realm that awaits it.


In the same way all of your suffering, your trials and tribulations, your pain and sorrow in this realm are only a momentary precursor to a greater awakening. A preparation for the day when you are released from the confinement of this mortal coil and take your first breaths of life into your nostrils as an eternal living being.



Much of what causes people pain and a sense of loss is from attachments to what they can never possess forever.


you might not realize this but the fact that people suffer and die on this planet is evidence of a loving and merciful God.


If you could live forever free of pain on this planet you would be praying for death before you turned 200 years old. After an eon has passed, you would have gone completely insane epochs ago, literally burning alive in sulfurous flames.

You do get that the entirety of your response can be summed up, pretty much, by, "Oh, get over yourself, you whiners! You got a little booboo. Shrug it off. Things are going to be okay after you get to the Good Place! So, suck it up!"

Really?!?! You really believe that to be a sufficient response to grieving family, or traumatized victims? Really???

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

Are we grown ups here or not?

Would you prefer I told you a nice bedtime story and gave you a glass of warm milk?

You realize you are not offering a "loving" God. You're presenting an authoritarian God who, knowingly created this shithole of a reality, populated with sociopaths, monsters, and killers. Then expects us to just "deal with it", and say "Thank you, Sir. May I have another," with some vague promise that, after this, there is an eternity of "better" on the other side. You get that, right?

Fuck! Your version of theism is less appealing than the fairy tales the mainstream Christians want to feed us!

I am not a theist.


Try to see this planet as a maximum security prison for reprobate souls from another dimension. If God was not loving you would live here forever.

You think you have nothing to be saved from, no need for salvation?

the truth is, everyone is born mad; many remain that way.

 

[ding]

You do get that the entirety of your response can be summed up, pretty much, by, "Oh, get over yourself, you whiners! You got a little booboo. Shrug it off. Things are going to be okay after you get to the Good Place! So, suck it up!"

Really?!?! You really believe that to be a sufficient response to grieving family, or traumatized victims? Really???

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

Are we grown ups here or not?

Would you prefer I told you a nice bedtime story and gave you a glass of warm milk?

You realize you are not offering a "loving" God. You're presenting an authoritarian God who, knowingly created this shithole of a reality, populated with sociopaths, monsters, and killers. Then expects us to just "deal with it", and say "Thank you, Sir. May I have another," with some vague promise that, after this, there is an eternity of "better" on the other side. You get that, right?

Fuck! Your version of theism is less appealing than the fairy tales the mainstream Christians want to feed us!

I am not a theist.


Try to see this planet as a maximum security prison for reprobate souls from another dimension. If God was not loving you would live here forever.

You think you have nothing to be saved from, no need for salvation?

the truth is, everyone is born mad; many remain that way.

That's the ticket, buddy up to him. That way he won't defrock you any harder than he needs to. Smart move. Did you know he claims he has a PhD in Psychiatry and went to seminary school too? Maybe you should show him more respect.

 

[ding]

 

[Czernobog]

You do get that the entirety of your response can be summed up, pretty much, by, "Oh, get over yourself, you whiners! You got a little booboo. Shrug it off. Things are going to be okay after you get to the Good Place! So, suck it up!"

Really?!?! You really believe that to be a sufficient response to grieving family, or traumatized victims? Really???

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

Are we grown ups here or not?

Would you prefer I told you a nice bedtime story and gave you a glass of warm milk?

You realize you are not offering a "loving" God. You're presenting an authoritarian God who, knowingly created this shithole of a reality, populated with sociopaths, monsters, and killers. Then expects us to just "deal with it", and say "Thank you, Sir. May I have another," with some vague promise that, after this, there is an eternity of "better" on the other side. You get that, right?

Fuck! Your version of theism is less appealing than the fairy tales the mainstream Christians want to feed us!

I am not a theist.


Try to see this planet as a maximum security prison for reprobate souls from another dimension. If God was not loving you would live here forever.

You think you have nothing to be saved from, no need for salvation?

the truth is, everyone is born mad; many remain that way.

Wow. I say again. Your God is worse that the fairy tales Christians try to feed us. I freely, and gleefully tell your God to go fuck himself with a cattle prod wrapped in barbed wire. Your god is an authoritarian sociopath. Yes, I have something to be saved from: YOUR. GOD.

 

[ding]

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

Are we grown ups here or not?

Would you prefer I told you a nice bedtime story and gave you a glass of warm milk?

You realize you are not offering a "loving" God. You're presenting an authoritarian God who, knowingly created this shithole of a reality, populated with sociopaths, monsters, and killers. Then expects us to just "deal with it", and say "Thank you, Sir. May I have another," with some vague promise that, after this, there is an eternity of "better" on the other side. You get that, right?

Fuck! Your version of theism is less appealing than the fairy tales the mainstream Christians want to feed us!

I am not a theist.


Try to see this planet as a maximum security prison for reprobate souls from another dimension. If God was not loving you would live here forever.

You think you have nothing to be saved from, no need for salvation?

the truth is, everyone is born mad; many remain that way.

Wow. I say again. Your God is worse that the fairy tales Christians try to feed us. I freely, and gleefully tell your God to go fuck himself with a cattle prod wrapped in barbed wire. Your god is an authoritarian sociopath. Yes, I have something to be saved from: YOUR. GOD.

 

[hobelim]

No, you are the one who added the flavor of crude.

Seriously, no one who dies young or old is missing out on anything except everything that you are whining about.

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

Are we grown ups here or not?

Would you prefer I told you a nice bedtime story and gave you a glass of warm milk?

You realize you are not offering a "loving" God. You're presenting an authoritarian God who, knowingly created this shithole of a reality, populated with sociopaths, monsters, and killers. Then expects us to just "deal with it", and say "Thank you, Sir. May I have another," with some vague promise that, after this, there is an eternity of "better" on the other side. You get that, right?

Fuck! Your version of theism is less appealing than the fairy tales the mainstream Christians want to feed us!

I am not a theist.


Try to see this planet as a maximum security prison for reprobate souls from another dimension. If God was not loving you would live here forever.

You think you have nothing to be saved from, no need for salvation?

the truth is, everyone is born mad; many remain that way.

Wow. I say again. Your God is worse that the fairy tales Christians try to feed us. I freely, and gleefully tell your God to go fuck himself with a cattle prod wrapped in barbed wire. Your god is an authoritarian sociopath. Yes, I have something to be saved from: YOUR. GOD.

lol.... You know if you applied the same amount of intelligence required to strike a match and the same amount of energy that you just wasted having an emotional hissy fit into thinking a little more deeply about it than you are accustomed to doing you will discover that MY GOD isn't such a meanie after all.

 

[ding]

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

Are we grown ups here or not?

Would you prefer I told you a nice bedtime story and gave you a glass of warm milk?

You realize you are not offering a "loving" God. You're presenting an authoritarian God who, knowingly created this shithole of a reality, populated with sociopaths, monsters, and killers. Then expects us to just "deal with it", and say "Thank you, Sir. May I have another," with some vague promise that, after this, there is an eternity of "better" on the other side. You get that, right?

Fuck! Your version of theism is less appealing than the fairy tales the mainstream Christians want to feed us!

I am not a theist.


Try to see this planet as a maximum security prison for reprobate souls from another dimension. If God was not loving you would live here forever.

You think you have nothing to be saved from, no need for salvation?

the truth is, everyone is born mad; many remain that way.

Wow. I say again. Your God is worse that the fairy tales Christians try to feed us. I freely, and gleefully tell your God to go fuck himself with a cattle prod wrapped in barbed wire. Your god is an authoritarian sociopath. Yes, I have something to be saved from: YOUR. GOD.

lol.... You know if you applied the least amount of the intelligence required to strike a match into thinking a little more deeply than you are comfortable doing you will discover that MY GOD isn't such a meanie after all.

I don't think that will do it for him. You need to bow more deeply.

 

[ding]

You'll notice that you are not deny7ing that my paraphrase of your argument is wrong - just that it was "crude". Seriously. That seems like it should be a comforting argument to you? Really?!?!?

Are we grown ups here or not?

Would you prefer I told you a nice bedtime story and gave you a glass of warm milk?

You realize you are not offering a "loving" God. You're presenting an authoritarian God who, knowingly created this shithole of a reality, populated with sociopaths, monsters, and killers. Then expects us to just "deal with it", and say "Thank you, Sir. May I have another," with some vague promise that, after this, there is an eternity of "better" on the other side. You get that, right?

Fuck! Your version of theism is less appealing than the fairy tales the mainstream Christians want to feed us!

I am not a theist.


Try to see this planet as a maximum security prison for reprobate souls from another dimension. If God was not loving you would live here forever.

You think you have nothing to be saved from, no need for salvation?

the truth is, everyone is born mad; many remain that way.

Wow. I say again. Your God is worse that the fairy tales Christians try to feed us. I freely, and gleefully tell your God to go fuck himself with a cattle prod wrapped in barbed wire. Your god is an authoritarian sociopath. Yes, I have something to be saved from: YOUR. GOD.

lol.... You know if you applied the same amount of intelligence required to strike a match into thinking a little more deeply than you are comfortable doing you will discover that MY GOD isn't such a meanie after all.

 

[Boss]

Yes, and the dogma of the religion, based on several doctrinal points, is that it is incumbent upon the adherents of the religion to convince as many people as possible to "accept" that "gift". Thus it very much is a religion of conversion. Now, are Christians aggressive about it as they used to be? No. But, just because they have foregone the rack, and the heretic's fork, do not suppose that they have become any less enthusiastic about conversion.

Look... it's like I said, I am a spiritualist. I don't have a religion to sell you. It doesn't matter to me personally what you do. However, knowing what I know, I naturally would like for you to experience the benefits of being spiritually connected as a human being. It's like, if you read a good book or watched a good movie, you want others to know so they can share your experience. What's so wrong about that?

I've met these "on fire" Christians, I know they can be annoying with it.... but it's like I said, no matter how much they may want to "convert" you, it's impossible to force someone to accept what they don't believe. Christianity is a religion of acceptance.

 

[hobelim]

You realize you are not offering a "loving" God. You're presenting an authoritarian God who, knowingly created this shithole of a reality, populated with sociopaths, monsters, and killers. Then expects us to just "deal with it", and say "Thank you, Sir. May I have another," with some vague promise that, after this, there is an eternity of "better" on the other side. You get that, right?

I think your problem has become clear. You are not a very happy person who is very disappointed with their own life.

I've been though some hard times and have met some very unpleasant backstabbing and duplicitous people along the way just like you and everyone else has, but for my entire life I never once thought of this reality as a shithole whether this is the only planet with life in the entire universe or the most fuck up one in existence.

You do have my condolences.



I heard that some people actually love life in spite of the many troubles and hardships of living.


Without your frail connection to existence here, you would know nothing about life at all.

Stop being such a curmudgeon.

There is no God in existence that created this reality a shithole. If this reality has become one for you, you made it that way by degenerating into a turd.

If you want to become a happier person, start clearing out the shit that has accumulated in your own mind.

Its extremely odoriferous in case you didn't know.

 

[ding]

You realize you are not offering a "loving" God. You're presenting an authoritarian God who, knowingly created this shithole of a reality, populated with sociopaths, monsters, and killers. Then expects us to just "deal with it", and say "Thank you, Sir. May I have another," with some vague promise that, after this, there is an eternity of "better" on the other side. You get that, right?

I think your problem has become clear. You are not a very happy person who is very disappointed with their own life.

I've been though some hard times and have met some very unpleasant backstabbing and duplicitous people along the way but for my entire life I never once thought of this reality as a shithole whether this is the only planet with life in the entire universe or the most fuck up one in existence.

You do have my condolences.



I heard that some people actually love life in spite of the many troubles and hardships of living.


Without your frail connection to existence here, you would know nothing about life at all.

Stop being such a curmudgeon.

Wow that was really gentle. I guess you reserve your hate for people who believe in edible god's.

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

Is it your belief that unless everything is perfect there can be no God?

No, there could still be a creator. Just not the god your religion describes. The god you say wouldn't have designed us to murder and rape. It would be so easy to make people like you or me. Not sociopathic.

And no kids wouldn't get cancer. A god who cared wouldn't do that.

And the kid across the hall from me so fucked up he blew his brains out. And then some people in your religion say he's burning in hell now for all eternity.

Nothing disproves a creator but common sense disproves any story you tell me

So because cancer exists there can be no God. Do I understand you correctly?

Baby cancer proves if there is a creator he doesn't care and he's not perfect because there's a flaw in his design

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

Is it your belief that unless everything is perfect there can be no God?

No, there could still be a creator. Just not the god your religion describes. The god you say wouldn't have designed us to murder and rape. It would be so easy to make people like you or me. Not sociopathic.

And no kids wouldn't get cancer. A god who cared wouldn't do that.

And the kid across the hall from me so fucked up he blew his brains out. And then some people in your religion say he's burning in hell now for all eternity.

Nothing disproves a creator but common sense disproves any story you tell me

Does death ruin it for you?
If so, would you be happy with immortality?
How many years would you like to live?

More than 2 would be nice

 

[hobelim]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

Is it your belief that unless everything is perfect there can be no God?

No, there could still be a creator. Just not the god your religion describes. The god you say wouldn't have designed us to murder and rape. It would be so easy to make people like you or me. Not sociopathic.

And no kids wouldn't get cancer. A god who cared wouldn't do that.

And the kid across the hall from me so fucked up he blew his brains out. And then some people in your religion say he's burning in hell now for all eternity.

Nothing disproves a creator but common sense disproves any story you tell me

So because cancer exists there can be no God. Do I understand you correctly?

Baby cancer proves if there is a creator he doesn't care and he's not perfect because there's a flaw in his design

Thats your proof? lol..

You think God doesn't care and there is a flaw in his design because babies die?

You think of yourself as a scientist?


lolololol

 

[ding]

Maybe God has given mankind the power of reason and knowledge but also the responsibility for whatever happens when we use it. Is man's inhumanity to man his/her fault or ours? Do you really want a life with no pain, no suffering, and no death? What would be the point of having the ability to reason and learn if we have no problems to solve?

Actually, that is no better than the parent analogy. That answer would be perfectly understandable, if our lives had difficulties, and challenges. It does. But, what? God decided my life wasn't challenging enough, so he decided my son needed to contract a fatal disease, and die, while I could do nothing? God decided that my life was not difficult enough, so, he sat back, and did nothing as a rapist violated my daughter? Really? And just what made me so special? Why were the normal difficulties, and challenges that life presents to...well...everyone, allowing them to grow, and develop their reason, and intellect simply not enough, that I required such special, particular attack from outside, that I did nothing to incur? And this is your benevolent God? Really?

You didn't answer my questions. Why?

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

Is it your belief that unless everything is perfect there can be no God?

No, there could still be a creator. Just not the god your religion describes. The god you say wouldn't have designed us to murder and rape. It would be so easy to make people like you or me. Not sociopathic.

And no kids wouldn't get cancer. A god who cared wouldn't do that.

And the kid across the hall from me so fucked up he blew his brains out. And then some people in your religion say he's burning in hell now for all eternity.

Nothing disproves a creator but common sense disproves any story you tell me

So because cancer exists there can be no God. Do I understand you correctly?

Baby cancer proves if there is a creator he doesn't care and he's not perfect because there's a flaw in his design

Thus proving that you cannot believe in God unless everything is perfect. Do you really believe that is a logical argument?

 

[sealybobo]

If your child is murdered right in front of you are you going to see it this way? Or your two year old dies of cancer? No way. You will realize if there is a creator he doesn't care. If someone breaks in and rapes your wife right in front of you then you would realize there isn't any all knowing perfect and caring God that's looking out for you.

In other words the god in all the holy books is made up by man

If what you are stating is factually true, the last century would have eliminated all religions.

We are still a very young species just figuring things out. Still very superstitious.
Ask how many people believe in ghosts for example.

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We are still a very young species just figuring things out. Still very superstitious.
Ask how many people believe in ghosts for example.

a period where the desert religions are dismissed would more likely lead to a better understanding for the goals set out for life and where those goals are leading humanity - than letting those corrupt religions cause our untimely demise.

According to Sealy, Islam and The Roman Catholic Church should have eliminated religion.
Such has not occurred,

I don't believe he, at any time, said that...

Yes I too miss his point.