Two questions for theists

[Indeependent]

Is it your belief that unless everything is perfect there can be no God?

No, there could still be a creator. Just not the god your religion describes. The god you say wouldn't have designed us to murder and rape. It would be so easy to make people like you or me. Not sociopathic.

And no kids wouldn't get cancer. A god who cared wouldn't do that.

And the kid across the hall from me so fucked up he blew his brains out. And then some people in your religion say he's burning in hell now for all eternity.

Nothing disproves a creator but common sense disproves any story you tell me

Does death ruin it for you?
If so, would you be happy with immortality?
How many years would you like to live?

More than 2 would be nice

Irrational...everything that happens in our world has infinite implications.
Every time someone sees you smile, frown or look blank, your expression has an infinite ripple effect.
If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

How about 3 years?
Is that better then 2?
Is 4 better then 3?

I used to believe that but someone pointed out that a rock in the ocean dissappates.

The current world is a metaphor...
If a rock didn't dissipate, nobody could return to God.

 

[ding]

Excellent posts, all. What they intended for evil, God is using for good.

 

[Meriweather]

A couple of questions for believers.

1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

1. I teach. Before giving a test I can pretty much tell you how each student will perform. The test is for the student to recognize how well he is doing.

2. Feel the flame forever burn, teaching lessons we must learn to bring us closer to the power of the dream. (Celine Dion)

Many lessons can be learned from goodness. There are other lessons that can be only learn from hardship and/or evil.

 

[BreezeWood]

No, there could still be a creator. Just not the god your religion describes. The god you say wouldn't have designed us to murder and rape. It would be so easy to make people like you or me. Not sociopathic.

And no kids wouldn't get cancer. A god who cared wouldn't do that.

And the kid across the hall from me so fucked up he blew his brains out. And then some people in your religion say he's burning in hell now for all eternity.

Nothing disproves a creator but common sense disproves any story you tell me

Does death ruin it for you?
If so, would you be happy with immortality?
How many years would you like to live?

More than 2 would be nice

Irrational...everything that happens in our world has infinite implications.
Every time someone sees you smile, frown or look blank, your expression has an infinite ripple effect.
If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

How about 3 years?
Is that better then 2?
Is 4 better then 3?

.

I actually started studying Torah

If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

judaism is advanced as a religion were it not for its exclusivity that negates its value entirely ... as well when having to be read.

not a perfect world, a world without evil, a Triumph is the final goal for remission. imperfection is obviously not an issue by simply observing our own solar system.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.

you do not claim to be chosen ... no doubt that more than anything else frames your standing in all regards.

A Noachide gets the Next World.

1. Do not deny God.
2. Do not blaspheme God.
3. Do not murder.
4. Do not engage in illicit sexual relations.
5. Do not steal.
6. Do not eat from a live animal.
7. Establish courts/legal system to ensure obedience to said laws.

no, the Triumph of Good vs Evil is the only admittance to the Everlasting, right person though ...

Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

they all have a chance, we agree on that.

1. 
   
   

 

[Indeependent]

Does death ruin it for you?
If so, would you be happy with immortality?
How many years would you like to live?

More than 2 would be nice

Irrational...everything that happens in our world has infinite implications.
Every time someone sees you smile, frown or look blank, your expression has an infinite ripple effect.
If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

How about 3 years?
Is that better then 2?
Is 4 better then 3?

.

I actually started studying Torah

If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

judaism is advanced as a religion were it not for its exclusivity that negates its value entirely ... as well when having to be read.

not a perfect world, a world without evil, a Triumph is the final goal for remission. imperfection is obviously not an issue by simply observing our own solar system.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.

you do not claim to be chosen ... no doubt that more than anything else frames your standing in all regards.

A Noachide gets the Next World.

1. Do not deny God.
2. Do not blaspheme God.
3. Do not murder.
4. Do not engage in illicit sexual relations.
5. Do not steal.
6. Do not eat from a live animal.
7. Establish courts/legal system to ensure obedience to said laws.

no, the Triumph of Good vs Evil is the only admittance to the Everlasting, right person though ...

Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

they all have a chance, we agree on that.

1. 
   

We were chosen to make everyone else aware of what God expects them to be.
Are you trying to be what God expects you to be?

 

[BreezeWood]

More than 2 would be nice

Irrational...everything that happens in our world has infinite implications.
Every time someone sees you smile, frown or look blank, your expression has an infinite ripple effect.
If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

How about 3 years?
Is that better then 2?
Is 4 better then 3?

.

I actually started studying Torah

If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

judaism is advanced as a religion were it not for its exclusivity that negates its value entirely ... as well when having to be read.

not a perfect world, a world without evil, a Triumph is the final goal for remission. imperfection is obviously not an issue by simply observing our own solar system.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.

you do not claim to be chosen ... no doubt that more than anything else frames your standing in all regards.

A Noachide gets the Next World.

1. Do not deny God.
2. Do not blaspheme God.
3. Do not murder.
4. Do not engage in illicit sexual relations.
5. Do not steal.
6. Do not eat from a live animal.
7. Establish courts/legal system to ensure obedience to said laws.

no, the Triumph of Good vs Evil is the only admittance to the Everlasting, right person though ...

Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

they all have a chance, we agree on that.

We were chosen to make everyone else aware of what God expects them to be.
Are you trying to be what God expects you to be?

.

We were chosen to make everyone else aware of what God expects them to be.
Are you trying to be what God expects you to be?

what is expected is the Triumph, no book required ... I have grown to believe of those religions I would accept Judea without their book so what's the difference.

Are you trying to be what God expects you to be?

the Almighty is the gatekeeper, keeping out what does not belong, expectations have nothing to do with it.

the Apex of Knowledge also would be required to Triumph and both are my goals.

 

[sealybobo]

No, there could still be a creator. Just not the god your religion describes. The god you say wouldn't have designed us to murder and rape. It would be so easy to make people like you or me. Not sociopathic.

And no kids wouldn't get cancer. A god who cared wouldn't do that.

And the kid across the hall from me so fucked up he blew his brains out. And then some people in your religion say he's burning in hell now for all eternity.

Nothing disproves a creator but common sense disproves any story you tell me

Does death ruin it for you?
If so, would you be happy with immortality?
How many years would you like to live?

More than 2 would be nice

Irrational...everything that happens in our world has infinite implications.
Every time someone sees you smile, frown or look blank, your expression has an infinite ripple effect.
If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

How about 3 years?
Is that better then 2?
Is 4 better then 3?

.

I actually started studying Torah

If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

judaism is advanced as a religion were it not for its exclusivity that negates its value entirely ... as well when having to be read.

not a perfect world, a world without evil, a Triumph is the final goal for remission. imperfection is obviously not an issue by simply observing our own solar system.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

Jews tell me if a gentile says they want to convert their job is to talk them out of it. If they are unsuccessful they're supposed to refer them to someone more convincing. If they still want to join they let them pledge.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

 

[sealybobo]

A couple of questions for believers.

1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

1. I teach. Before giving a test I can pretty much tell you how each student will perform. The test is for the student to recognize how well he is doing.

2. Feel the flame forever burn, teaching lessons we must learn to bring us closer to the power of the dream. (Celine Dion)

Many lessons can be learned from goodness. There are other lessons that can be only learn from hardship and/or evil.

Yes that's bullshit. You decide ahead of time this student is a c student and that student is a b student and you impose your prejudgment on those kids. I've had teachers do that to me. I put a lot of time into one project and got the same grade as when I put a little effort in. Did she even read my work? Probably not

 

[BreezeWood]

Does death ruin it for you?
If so, would you be happy with immortality?
How many years would you like to live?

More than 2 would be nice

Irrational...everything that happens in our world has infinite implications.
Every time someone sees you smile, frown or look blank, your expression has an infinite ripple effect.
If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

How about 3 years?
Is that better then 2?
Is 4 better then 3?

.

I actually started studying Torah

If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

judaism is advanced as a religion were it not for its exclusivity that negates its value entirely ... as well when having to be read.

not a perfect world, a world without evil, a Triumph is the final goal for remission. imperfection is obviously not an issue by simply observing our own solar system.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

Jews tell me if a gentile says they want to convert their job is to talk them out of it. If they are unsuccessful they're supposed to refer them to someone more convincing. If they still want to join they let them pledge.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

isn't that what happened after WW1 in Germany, the jews did not fight but took all the jobs of those who did and after the war refused to understand the resentment - sortof their entire history ...

 

[Meriweather]

Yes that's bullshit. You decide ahead of time this student is a c student and that student is a b student and you impose your prejudgment on those kids. I've had teachers do that to me. I put a lot of time into one project and got the same grade as when I put a little effort in. Did she even read my work? Probably not

I am sorry you had such a hard time. You see, I am a substitute teacher, so I decide nothing--not even the tests. What I can do is observe the students I am supervising for that period of time. Did you ask the teacher about the grade that you put a lot of time into? I work for some excellent teachers, who do take time to respond their students. I understand there are others who do not.

 

[Indeependent]

Does death ruin it for you?
If so, would you be happy with immortality?
How many years would you like to live?

More than 2 would be nice

Irrational...everything that happens in our world has infinite implications.
Every time someone sees you smile, frown or look blank, your expression has an infinite ripple effect.
If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

How about 3 years?
Is that better then 2?
Is 4 better then 3?

.

I actually started studying Torah

If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

judaism is advanced as a religion were it not for its exclusivity that negates its value entirely ... as well when having to be read.

not a perfect world, a world without evil, a Triumph is the final goal for remission. imperfection is obviously not an issue by simply observing our own solar system.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

Jews tell me if a gentile says they want to convert their job is to talk them out of it. If they are unsuccessful they're supposed to refer them to someone more convincing. If they still want to join they let them pledge.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

Would you have become a Jew in Germany during Hitler?
Once you're a Jew there are severe consequences for subverting God's will.

 

[Indeependent]

More than 2 would be nice

Irrational...everything that happens in our world has infinite implications.
Every time someone sees you smile, frown or look blank, your expression has an infinite ripple effect.
If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

How about 3 years?
Is that better then 2?
Is 4 better then 3?

.

I actually started studying Torah

If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

judaism is advanced as a religion were it not for its exclusivity that negates its value entirely ... as well when having to be read.

not a perfect world, a world without evil, a Triumph is the final goal for remission. imperfection is obviously not an issue by simply observing our own solar system.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

Jews tell me if a gentile says they want to convert their job is to talk them out of it. If they are unsuccessful they're supposed to refer them to someone more convincing. If they still want to join they let them pledge.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

isn't that what happened after WW1 in Germany, the jews did not fight but took all the jobs of those who did and after the war refused to understand the resentment - sortof their entire history ...

I hate Jews and their edgeucashuns.

 

[onefour1]

A couple of questions for believers.

1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.

1. God does not test us for his own profit and learning. He does it for us. We need the test to grow. Its a growing process that takes patients and forgiveness. Realization of the test makes it a reality and not just God's knowledge. If he stopped the test, then the knowledge would not have been knowledge since it never would happen due to the test being stopped. To be fair God has to go through with the test. How else could it be a fair judgement?

2. For God to allow us to become more like himself He must give us free will and allow us to exercise it. God is a being of free will who chooses good continually. Nobody tells God what to do. He does what he does of his own volition. He wants us to also be good in and of ourselves. For us to be like this, we must be given free will. As imperfect beings we needed an environment where choices between evil and good exist. So that we can learn to choose good over evil. If God did away with all evil in this world, we would not have choice between good and evil and our character could not grow strong against evil and we would not really have free will. This life is temporary. It is given for our profit and learning. If we are to truly be happy beings in eternity, we need to have free will. We also need to learn to choose good over evil in and of ourselves. Much of the evil in the world is caused by the bad choices that man makes with his free will. But taking that away would deprive man from learning to choose good of his own volition and developing a God like character. It is God's will that we learn to choose good over evil but he knows that we cannot do this unless our free will is held inviolate. In the end we will all have immortality and we will all be resurrected so death and destruction in this world are only a temporary state. This life is a test to see if we will choose in and of ourselves goodness. God is giving us the opportunity to become more like him. He wants us to have the opportunity to become more than what we are. Unfortunately this all takes free will and with free will also comes evil choices. To take away the evil is to take away the free will. To take away the free will is to take away opportunity for mankind to grow into a happier state of being. Free will is an eternal principle with God. He loves us and wants us to become like him just as you would want your own children to have the opportunity to be all that they can be. In the end the rapists, murders, pedophiles, etc will find themselves in misery because of their own choices. God will bless those who were murdered, raped, tortured, etc. He is fair and just but must give us this temporal mortal life to learn to choose the good over the evil so that we can have the opportunity to be more like him. This life is a school of hard knocks for us but can be extremely rewarding if we learn to value goodness over evil. The great blessings of God await those who are faithful.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes that's bullshit. You decide ahead of time this student is a c student and that student is a b student and you impose your prejudgment on those kids. I've had teachers do that to me. I put a lot of time into one project and got the same grade as when I put a little effort in. Did she even read my work? Probably not

I am sorry you had such a hard time. You see, I am a substitute teacher, so I decide nothing--not even the tests. What I can do is observe the students I am supervising for that period of time. Did you ask the teacher about the grade that you put a lot of time into? I work for some excellent teachers, who do take time to respond their students. I understand there are others who do not.

I saw your comment about being able to tell who the smart ones were and it brought up that memory.

 

[sealybobo]

Irrational...everything that happens in our world has infinite implications.
Every time someone sees you smile, frown or look blank, your expression has an infinite ripple effect.
If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

How about 3 years?
Is that better then 2?
Is 4 better then 3?

.

I actually started studying Torah

If you want a perfect world, be perfect and try to encourage everyone else to be perfect and maybe God will respond.

judaism is advanced as a religion were it not for its exclusivity that negates its value entirely ... as well when having to be read.

not a perfect world, a world without evil, a Triumph is the final goal for remission. imperfection is obviously not an issue by simply observing our own solar system.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

Jews tell me if a gentile says they want to convert their job is to talk them out of it. If they are unsuccessful they're supposed to refer them to someone more convincing. If they still want to join they let them pledge.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

isn't that what happened after WW1 in Germany, the jews did not fight but took all the jobs of those who did and after the war refused to understand the resentment - sortof their entire history ...

I hate Jews and their edgeucashuns.

Are you a Christian? Interesting a Christian hates Jews but me an atheist doesn't.

But that's the beauty of Christianity. Even ones that hate go to heaven.

 

[task0778]

.
judaism is advanced as a religion were it not for its exclusivity that negates its value entirely ... as well when having to be read.

not a perfect world, a world without evil, a Triumph is the final goal for remission. imperfection is obviously not an issue by simply observing our own solar system.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

Jews tell me if a gentile says they want to convert their job is to talk them out of it. If they are unsuccessful they're supposed to refer them to someone more convincing. If they still want to join they let them pledge.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

isn't that what happened after WW1 in Germany, the jews did not fight but took all the jobs of those who did and after the war refused to understand the resentment - sortof their entire history ...

I hate Jews and their edgeucashuns.

Are you a Christian? Interesting a Christian hates Jews but me an atheist doesn't.

But that's the beauty of Christianity. Even ones that hate go to heaven.

I don't think so, people who have hate in their hearts may profess to be Christians but in reality are not.

 

[Indeependent]

.
judaism is advanced as a religion were it not for its exclusivity that negates its value entirely ... as well when having to be read.

not a perfect world, a world without evil, a Triumph is the final goal for remission. imperfection is obviously not an issue by simply observing our own solar system.

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

Jews tell me if a gentile says they want to convert their job is to talk them out of it. If they are unsuccessful they're supposed to refer them to someone more convincing. If they still want to join they let them pledge.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

isn't that what happened after WW1 in Germany, the jews did not fight but took all the jobs of those who did and after the war refused to understand the resentment - sortof their entire history ...

I hate Jews and their edgeucashuns.

Are you a Christian? Interesting a Christian hates Jews but me an atheist doesn't.

But that's the beauty of Christianity. Even ones that hate go to heaven.

I'm what you refer to as a Modern Orthodox Jew.

 

[Indeependent]

Judaism is not exclusive at all.
A Noachide gets the Next World.
Godly people of all faiths get the Next World.

Jews tell me if a gentile says they want to convert their job is to talk them out of it. If they are unsuccessful they're supposed to refer them to someone more convincing. If they still want to join they let them pledge.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

.

Like if a white guy wanted to join a black fraternity

isn't that what happened after WW1 in Germany, the jews did not fight but took all the jobs of those who did and after the war refused to understand the resentment - sortof their entire history ...

I hate Jews and their edgeucashuns.

Are you a Christian? Interesting a Christian hates Jews but me an atheist doesn't.

But that's the beauty of Christianity. Even ones that hate go to heaven.

I don't think so, people who have hate in their hearts may profess to be Christians but in reality are not.

And Jews who believe in Communism are not acting Jewish.
These flippant statements are meaningless to millions of people who don't know better.

 

[Meriweather]

I saw your comment about being able to tell who the smart ones were and it brought up that memory.

Well, to be clear (or clearer) being able to tell who will do well on a test and who won't has little to do with being able to tell who the smart ones are, and more about noticing who takes the work seriously. I cannot walk into a classroom and identify who is smart at a glance. But, if I am there by the time a test rolls around, I know who has been working and who has not; who pays attention and who doesn't.

 

[hobelim]

Purify and refine your own mind and then, when you die, you will be received into an eternal abode whether you believe in God or not..

And you know this how? Like, do you have any serious proof?

Proof of what? That you don't have to believe, just do it?

Ahem, thats up to you....

Proof that "Purify and refine your own mind and then, when you die, you will be received into an eternal abode ". You must have a solid reason for believing that.

I do. I have already been intimately acquainted with my new ride waiting for me in the sky and have even had the opportunity to take it out for a test drive. The very next day in the paper there were many eyewitness reports of a UFO seen in the night sky . lol...

You really have no idea what can be accomplished in the fraction of a second when you are not bound by space or time.

And it was about as difficult to attain as cleaning house.

You should give it a try. Go on a search and destroy mission into the depths of your rancid mind, if you dare, to extirpate every unclean thing that causes your mind to stumble in thought and perception.

What have you got to lose?

If you ever hope to find a place in a better world with bigger motor cars, start saving up for a new and improved vehicle worthy of a space cadet..lol...

You got a job now so go to work already you lazy bastard.

Do you need proof that your current jalopy has an expiration date?