Ukraine proxy war?

I have a feeling that leading Western strategists had plan A which included giving up Ukraine and allowing Russia to have their sphere of influence in some post-Soviet states. Crazy Russian demands and more crazy expectations in Moscow that they would be implemented in full led to switching of strategy. Maybe what we see now is something like plan C.
The I in CIA Can't Seriously Stand for Intelligence, So It Stands for Ego

I should have said so, but I believed that the Russian war games leading up to Feb. 24 were to get the Russian troops all excited, so that not invading would have been a letdown. Putin wouldn't have treated them like that; he wanted them raring to go.
 
Which is why I said this is not a NATO proxy war.

NATO wasn't giving Ukraine any odds of success. 72 to 96 hours was the expectation.

If NATO's intent was to use Ukraine to fight a war with Russia, there would have been some preparation.
Crooks Cripple the Crusade

The war against Serbia, Russia's ally, in 1995 was the first shot in NATO's war in the Ukraine. Moslem Bosnia was an Al Qaida outpost, so was Chechnya. Then NYETO and the filthy Eurine Union let millions of Moslem sleeper cells into Europe. Osama bin Laden is celebrating in hell about the decadent European infidels' cowardly and ignorant refusal to unite with Holy Russia against the jihad.
 
This is a good thread about how Ukraine is fighting a 21st Century war.

They didn't get this from NATO.

 
...The Black Sea isn't the Atlantic Ocean. If it's afloat, the shipspotters will find it.
Reported today Makarov is ID'ed just NW of Sevastopol. (This is SAR imagery so it's "likely but not confirmed").

The Russian fleet is hugging the shoreline between Sevastopol and Donuzlav, except for one Dyugon class landing craft at Snake Is. and one unidentified barge to the east of the island.
 
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1) The Russian ABD will defend Moscow region.
I just happened across an interesting article that says Moscow's ballistic missile defenses will only protect against a maximum of two US ballistic missiles:

And that is how they would perform before a counterforce strike degrades them.

It's kind of like the situation with the US missile defense system. It is only able to intercept a small attack, and is completely useless against a large attack.
 
I just happened across an interesting article that says Moscow's ballistic missile defenses will only protect against a maximum of two US ballistic missiles:

And that is how they would perform before a counterforce strike degrades them.

It's kind of like the situation with the US missile defense system. It is only able to intercept a small attack, and is completely useless against a large attack.
Back in 1985, yes, it was thought, that with relatively poor Soviet computers and relatively new American warheads, their new A-135 ABD system needs 5 counter-missiles to hit one real incoming warhead and, less than 100 missiles (allowed by ABD-treaty) can hit say, twenty warheads, delivered by two LGM-118 Peacekeepers (up to twelve Mk21 reentry vehicles each).
But, the things had changed dramatically since 1985. Right now, Moscow is defended by fully operational (since 2021) A-235 system, which has unknown (because ABD-treaty was cancelled) number (but definitely more than one hundred) of counter-missiles of three echelons - long range A-925 missiles, medium range - 58R6 missiles, short-range - 45T6 missiles, much better radars, computers, optical systems to distinguish real and fake targets and be able to work even with nuclear bursts in atmosphere and outside it.

Also, their air-defense, from S-300V4 and higher, can intercept ballistic targets moving with velocity lesser than 4,8 km/sec - incoming RVs in atmosphere.

What is even more important, American nuclear forces were effectively degraded by the American nucleophobic (and/or corrupted) politicians. Right now the USA don't have Peacekeepers at all, and Minutemen have only one Mk-12A/Mk-21 reentry vehicle per missile without any modern counter-ABD measures.
And that means, that the Russians (if they won initiative) can more or less successfully defend Moscow region against at least 100 Minutemen and, if they are lucky - against all 400 of them or against full salvo of one or even two Ohios (20 missiles each).
And this means, that their even moderately successful first counter-force strike can make impossible American "Moscow-flattering" retaliation strike.

What is even more important, American all-out retaliation strike could make the USA defenseless against Chinese nuclear strike or Latino-American military invasion.

That means, that right now the USA don't have Deterrence Type III (ability to fight a limited regional nuclear war) at all, don't have Deterrence Type II (ability to answer by a nuclear strike against extremely provocative behavior other than a direct nuclear attack against the USA), and relatively weak Deterrence Type I (ability to answer on direct nuclear attack against the USA itself) - under some circumstances the Russians can decide that the direct counter-force attack against the US nuclear forces is more safe for them, than alternatives.
 
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optical systems to distinguish real and fake targets
Fantasy.


Also, their air-defense, from S-300V4 and higher, can intercept ballistic targets moving with velocity lesser than 4,8 km/sec - incoming RVs in atmosphere.
They'll be distracted by the penetration aids.

Besides, how fast do Trident II warheads travel?


What is even more important, American nuclear forces were effectively degraded by the American nucleophobic (and/or corrupted) politicians. Right now the USA don't have Peacekeepers at all, and Minutemen have only one Mk-12A/Mk-21 reentry vehicle per missile
Those reductions are due to the arms treaty with Russia.

Russian missiles are equally degraded by the same treaty.


without any modern counter-ABD measures.
Don't count on it. US warheads will be protected by advanced penetration aids.


And that means, that the Russians (if they won initiative) can more or less successfully defend Moscow region against at least 100 Minutemen and, if they are lucky - against all 400 of them or against full salvo of one or even two Ohios (20 missiles each).
There is no chance of that. Russia's missile defenses are like the US's missile defenses. They are only protection against small attacks.


And this means, that their even moderately successful first counter-force strike can make impossible American "Moscow-flattering" retaliation strike.
There is no chance of that. All of Russia's missile defense silos will be wiped out in the US counterforce strike.


What is even more important, American all-out retaliation strike could make the USA defenseless against Chinese nuclear strike or Latino-American military invasion.
It won't matter. An all-out retaliation strike will still destroy Russia's 300 largest cities.

It also probably won't be a problem. China and Mexico will be too busy dealing with the radiation and nuclear winter to worry about us.

Besides, we would not take out Russian cities except for retaliation if Russia nuked American cities. So if this is a scenario where the US and Russia have destroyed each others' cities, then China and Mexico might not have much reason to invade the US even if they had the ability to do so.


That means, that right now the USA don't have Deterrence Type III (ability to fight a limited regional nuclear war) at all, don't have Deterrence Type II (ability to answer by a nuclear strike against extremely provocative behavior other than a direct nuclear attack against the USA),
16 B2 bombers with 16 bombs apiece can nuke up to 256 targets. Then they can fly home, reload, and do it all again.

That should be more than enough to fight any limited nuclear war. Also more than enough to proportionately retaliate against any nuclear attack against our NATO allies.

But if we need more force than that, 44 B52s with 12 ALCMs apiece can shower Russian targets with a wave of 528 nuclear-tipped ALCMs.


and relatively weak Deterrence Type I (ability to answer on direct nuclear attack against the USA itself)
The four Ohios that are on a countervalue mission have the ability to destroy Russia's 300 largest cities.


under some circumstances the Russians can decide that the direct counter-force attack against the US nuclear forces is more safe for them, than alternatives.
A rather foolish decision. The result would be a massive counterforce attack against Russia.
 
Back in 1985, yes, it was thought, that with relatively poor Soviet computers and relatively new American warheads,
You didn't mention "Poseidon" torpedoes, that could destroy the entire east coast of the USA
 
You didn't mention "Poseidon" torpedoes, that could destroy the entire east coast of the USA
Probably because Putin's tiny little midget torpedoes are so embarrassingly pathetic. Who in their right mind would ever want to remind people of such a failure?

Proper tsunami torpedoes have a gigaton yield. Putin's tiny little torpedoes can't even top 100 megatons.

And Russia can't even do 100 megatons properly. A proper 100 megaton device would be pure fusion. Except Russia doesn't even know how to do that.
 
It seems Putin sees this as a proxy war with America and NATO. How far could it go? Could it get to the point America gets directly involved?

Every so called war the US has fought since WWII has been a proxy war.
 
And Russia can't even do 100 megatons properly. A proper 100 megaton device would be pure fusion. Except Russia doesn't even know how to do that.
You should go for political career. The country needs idiots like you.
 
Good. Keep thinking this.
It's a fact that Russia can't even top 100 megatons in their tiny little midget torpedo.

It's a fact that Russia can't even make a proper 100% fusion design at 100 megatons.

Given their inability to go over 100 megatons, it is likely that Russia can't even make a proper 100% fusion design at any yield.

I'm just helping you to face reality: Russia is a joke.
 
i
 

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