Ukraine wants in to NATO

[g5000]

Proof? Of what? Ukraine ISN'T in NATO, they only apply NOW . And Why is Russia so paranoid of NATO? If they have the best of intensions, what difference does it make?

In 2013, the EU solicited Ukraine to enter into a joint political and economic agreement. This was the first step toward Ukraine joining NATO.

Putin exerted a great deal of economic pressure on his Ukrainian puppet, Victor Yanukovych, to turn down the offer. Yanukovytch submitted to Putin's wishes, and this led to his ouster by the Ukrainian people.

Yanukovych is who Putin now wants to re-install as his puppet in Kyiv. He has been living in Russia since his ouster and is probably packing his bags.

European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ding]

Some amazing things have resulted from KGB Putin's invasion.

Ukraine has applied to join the EU.

Belarus has become a nuclear state.

Germany has chosen to re-arm.

Finland and Sweden have indicated they are interested in joining NATO, which would bring about Putin's greatest fear of NATO bineg right on Russia's doorstep, his whole excuse for invading Ukraine!

It's a good thing that Europe is finally waking up to the reality that they better have a properly funded military.

 

[Lesh]

In October 2014, the new government made joining NATO a priority.

At the June 2021 Brussels Summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine would become a member of the Alliance with the Membership Action Plan (MAP) as an integral part of the process and Ukraine's right to determine its future and foreign policy, of course without outside interference.

Ukraine–NATO relations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On 12 June 2020, Ukraine joined NATO's enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program.[nb 4][91] According to an official NATO statement, the new status "does not prejudge any decisions on NATO membership."[91]

 

[g5000]

It's a good thing that Europe is finally waking up to the reality that they better have a properly funded military.

I've been saying for many, many years that Europe has depended on our military for their defense, and used the savings to create their social safety nets. And then they have the gall to mock us for not having as good social programs as they do.

 

[g5000]

How ironic it would be if Finland and Sweden joined NATO because of all this.

Right there on Russia's border.

Awesome.

 

[Colin norris]

If you want a nuclear war....sure let them into NATO


If you don't want a nuclear war .....don't. As simple as that.

How do you arrive at that ignorant assumption.

 

[g5000]

Neutral Finland, Sweden warm to idea of NATO membership

Through the Cold War and the decades since, nothing could persuade Finns and Swedes that they would be better off joining NATO — until now.

apnews.com

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has profoundly changed Europe’s security outlook, including for Nordic neutrals Finland and Sweden, where support for joining NATO has surged to record levels.

A poll commissioned by Finnish broadcaster YLE this week showed that, for the first time, more than 50% of Finns support joining the Western military alliance. In neighboring Sweden, a similar poll showed those in favor of NATO membership outnumber those against.

“The unthinkable might start to become thinkable,” tweeted former Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt, a proponent of NATO membership.

 

[ding]

In 2013, the EU solicited Ukraine to enter into a joint political and economic agreement. This was the first step toward Ukraine joining NATO.

Are you certain you aren't confusing NATO with the EU?

The EU Association Agreement (AA) was initialed on 30 March 2012 in Brussels;[34] The treatment and sentencing (considered by EU leaders as a politically motivated trial[35]) of former Prime Minister of Ukraine Yulia Tymoshenko had strained the relations between the EU and Ukraine.[35][36] The European Union and several of its member states, notably Germany, had pressured Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich and his Azarov Government to halt the detention of Tymoshenko in fear of her degrading health.[37] Several meetings with Yanukovich had been deserted by EU leaders, including the German president Joachim Gauck.[38][39]

At the request of opposition politicians in Ukraine, EU government officials boycotted the UEFA Euro 2012 championship in Ukraine.[38][40][41] EU leaders suggested that the AA, and the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Area, could not be ratified unless Ukraine addressed concerns over a "stark deterioration of democracy and the rule of law", including the imprisonment of Tymoshenko and Yuriy Lutsenko in 2011 and 2012.[42][43][44]

A 10 December 2012 statement by the EU Foreign Affairs Council "reaffirms its commitment to the signing of the already initialed Association Agreement, including a Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Area, as soon as the Ukrainian authorities demonstrate determined action and tangible progress in the three areas mentioned above, possibly by the time of the Eastern Partnership Summit in Vilnius in November 2013". These three areas are: "Electoral, judiciary and constitutional reforms (in line with international standards are integral parts of it and commonly agreed priorities)".[45]

Kostiantyn Yelisieiev, Ukraine's Ambassador to the EU, responded in February 2013 by rejecting any preconditions by the EU for signing the AA.[46] However, on 22 February 2013, a resolution was approved by 315 of the 349 registered members of the Verkhovna Rada stating that "within its powers" the parliament would ensure that the 10 December 2012 EU Foreign Affairs Council "recommendations" are implemented.[47] At the 16th EU-Ukraine summit of 25 February 2013,[48] The President of the European Council, Herman Van Rompuy, followed up on the December 2012 EU Foreign Affairs Council statement by reiterating the EU's "call for determined action and tangible progress in these areas – at the latest by May, this year".[49] The same day President Yanukovych stated Ukraine will "do its best" to satisfy the EU's requirements.[49] At the time President Yanukovych was also in negotiations with Russia to "find the right model" for cooperation with the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia.[49] But also on 25 February 2013 President of the European Commission José Manuel Barroso made it clear that "one country cannot at the same time be a member of a customs union and be in a deep common free-trade area with the European Union".[49]

To coordinate preparation of Ukraine for European integration, the Government of Ukraine adopted a Plan on Priority Measures for European Integration of Ukraine for 2013. Successful implementation of the plan was assumed to be one of the conditions necessary for signing of the Association Agreement, planned for 29 November 2013 during the Eastern Partnership Summit in Vilnius.[50][51]

In March 2013, Stefan Fuele, the EU's Commissioner for Enlargement, informed the European Parliament that while Ukrainian authorities had given their "unequivocal commitment" to address the issues raised by the EU, several "disturbing" recent incidents, including the annulment of Tymoshenko's lawyer Serhiy Vlasenko's mandate in the Verkhovna Rada (Ukraine's parliament), could delay the signing of the agreements. However, the next day the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed its optimism that they would still be signed in November.[52] On 7 April 2013 a decree by President Yanukovych freed Lutsenko from prison and exempted him, and his fellow Minister in the second Tymoshenko Government Heorhiy Filipchuk, from further punishment.[53] On 3 September 2013, at the opening session of the Verkhovna Rada after the summer recess, President Yanukovych urged his parliament to adopt laws so that Ukraine would meet the EU criteria and be able to sign the Association Agreement in November 2013.[54] On 18 September, the Ukrainian cabinet unanimously approved the draft association agreement.[55] On 25 September 2013 Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada Volodymyr Rybak stated that he was sure that his parliament would pass all the laws needed to fit the EU criteria for the Association Agreement since, except for the Communist Party of Ukraine, "the Verkhovna Rada has united around these bills".[a][56] On 20 November 2013, the EU's Commissioner for Enlargement, Stefan Fuele, stated he expected that the Verkhovna Rada would the next day[50] consider and adopt the remaining bills necessary for the signing of the association agreement, planned for 29 November 2013.

European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ding]

I've been saying for many, many years that Europe has depended on our military for their defense, and used the savings to create their social safety nets. And then they have the gall to mock us for not having as good social programs as they do.

And you would have been correct for saying so.

 

[Colin norris]

The irony here is, NATO was supposed to fight Russian aggression. And then Russia opposes it, because they can't be aggressive.

They fight aggression in nato countries only.
Get some facts.

 

[bendog]

Neutral Finland, Sweden warm to idea of NATO membership

Through the Cold War and the decades since, nothing could persuade Finns and Swedes that they would be better off joining NATO — until now.

apnews.com

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has profoundly changed Europe’s security outlook, including for Nordic neutrals Finland and Sweden, where support for joining NATO has surged to record levels.

A poll commissioned by Finnish broadcaster YLE this week showed that, for the first time, more than 50% of Finns support joining the Western military alliance. In neighboring Sweden, a similar poll showed those in favor of NATO membership outnumber those against.

“The unthinkable might start to become thinkable,” tweeted former Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt, a proponent of NATO membership.

All joking aside, isn't this the answer to the selective-libertarians who say "what Russia does in the Ukraine is none of our business"?

Is Germany deciding to re-arm, after possibly of tiring of explaining it's status and it's financial contribution to Nato, putting another nato country on Russia's border for 800 miles, even Hungary reassessing whether Russia is a threat, both France and the UK with nuclear arsenals reassessing Russia (maybe the UK already had)

 

[bendog]

I've been saying for many, many years that Europe has depended on our military for their defense, and used the savings to create their social safety nets. And then they have the gall to mock us for not having as good social programs as they do.

Yeah, I agree to an extent. I met a lady from Czech here around 1991 or 95, and she was aghast at the inner city poverty. But her family's pre WWII property was confiscated by the communists. And I can't say the western europeans don't pay taxes.

List of sovereign states by tax revenue to GDP ratio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ding]

Awesome.

Maybe. Maybe not. Russian mentality isn't like yours or mine. You never know what might make him go all in. He probably figures his people are better at enduring hardship.

 

[colfax_m]

They fight aggression in nato countries only.
Get some facts.

That’s not actually true. Starting in the 90s with Bosnia, using some pretty thin pretext, NATO has gotten involved in a number of conflicts well outside NATO countries.

 

[Colin norris]

That’s not actually true. Starting in the 90s with Bosnia, using some pretty thin pretext, NATO has gotten involved in a number of conflicts well outside NATO countries.

Bosnia was genocide. Not an invasion by a neighbouring country.

 

[Flopper]

I missed where NATO was making plans for admission in 2021

In fact Article 5 makes that virtually impossible considering the fact that Ukraine was engaged with a war with Russia (in Donbas) all that time and it would require a military response immediately

See my Post #73 above. Back in June 2021, there was no war with Russia. They were fighting against separatist as they had been for a number of years.

 

[colfax_m]

Bosnia was genocide. Not an invasion by a neighbouring country.

That’s true. It was a genocide.

In a country that is not in NATO.

I’m not saying it was right or wrong. I’m just saying it was a NATO action that didn’t have much if anything to do with a NATO country.

 

[Colin norris]

That’s true. It was a genocide.

In a country that is not in NATO.

I’m not saying it was right or wrong. I’m just saying it was a NATO action that didn’t have much if anything to do with a NATO

Well who do you think should have done it?
Maybe the USA should have barged in like vietnam.
NATO did what was right.

 

[Lesh]

Back in June 2021, there was no war with Russia

In the Donabas there was

They were fighting against separatist as they had been for a number of years.

Those "little green men" were Russians with their patches removed

 

[HappyJoy]

It's 840 mile border with Russia and tiny military of about 19,000, mostly reservists would not make them a good candidate for NATO. They would immediately be put in the crosshairs of the Russian military who previous has had little interest in Finland.

They would? We already have a cluster of NATO countries up against Russia and Putin picked the larger Ukraine to go after.