Ultrasemitism

[Sherlock Holmes]

Posters like Sherlock Holmes, who several posts back advocated for a Third Reich treatment of the entirety of Israel, is the very PROOF of why Jews need Israel to survive. Should antisemites as virrulent as he, who suggests another Final Solution, become more powerful and allow antisemitism to skyrocket even more than it has, then Jews worldwide have a safe harbor. This is what is meant by Jews right to self-determination.

I'm still waiting, in which post did you read me saying "advocated for a Third Reich treatment of the entirety of Israel"? there is no such post, you are a liar and a rabid ultrasemite.

 

[Lisa558]

In my personal opinion, there should never be any comparison between current events/peoples and the Holocaust/Nazis. Any such comparison will be inherently inaccurate. Any such comparison, by its nature, trivializes the Holocaust.

…..the same way the Democrats trivialized the Holocaust by calling the detention centers for illegals “concentration camps.” I can guarantee you that in Auschwitz or Buchenwald, the children were not given free classes, medical care, and food - they were killed within hours of arrival - nor were the adult prisoners provided three meals a day, medical service - unless you count Dr. Mengele - and had their rooms cleaned and laundry done by government officials.

Such comparisons are beyond insulting to Holocaust survivors, but then again, Dems are not overly concerned with insulting Jews. You notice she didn’t dare compare the detention centers to slave quarters, and for the same reason - it would be trivializing slave conditions.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

If Israel had existed at the time of the Holocaust, Hitler would not have achieved 2/3rds of his goal of wiping out all of European Jewry.

Many are not aware that Hitler wiped out such a large percentage of the world’s Jews (about half) that we are JUST NOW back at pre-WWII levels. It took three generations to recover.

And now we have antisemites like Sherlock advocating for the Third Reich treatment again - and then he claims he hasn’t said anything antisemitic.

You are the one who advocated that Gaza should be bombed with chemical weapons.

 

[rosends]

I asked you:

"Very well, let me ask then what if the state became a racist endeavor? How could one state that without being labelled antisemitic?"

and that's the "answer" I get?

Your answer is that it is impossible for Israel to ever be a racist endeavor, this is the end of our conversation in this thread, you epitomize the perverted reasoning of the ultrasemite, you are a perfect example of why we need such a term when dealing with the militant Zionists.

my answer is that the issue is the underlying premise of the entire state. As that is already implemented and is not a racist endeavor, you are asking "what if israel wasn't Israel" and you somehow think that that is a valid question.

You haven't provided a useful definition, have dismissed a definition offered and then asked hypotheticals that are illogical in order to make some imagined point. It isn't working.

 

[Lisa558]

You are the one who advocated that Gaza should be bombed with chemical weapons.

Liar.

Now stop addressing me, or referring to me. I don’t converse with people as disgustingly antisemitic as you.

 

[Shusha]

Very well, let me ask then what if the state became a racist endeavor? How could one state that without being labelled antisemitic?

The problem here is in using generalities and assigning broad and undefined labels. Reading a term such as "racist endeavor" paints the state (as we are discussing in this example) as inherently evil. It doesn't describe what the state does; it defines the state as.

This isn't criticism. Valid criticism wouldn't be reduced to these vague, evil-implicating language terms. Valid criticism would discuss criteria for determining policies, legal frameworks, institutional and systemic discrimination, and social inequities. It would be able to compare those policies, etc on an international scale to create a standard by which all states should be judged.

Insisting that the self-determination of the Jewish people is inherently and uniquely evil (racist) IS antisemitic.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Liar.

Now stop addressing me, or referring to me. I don’t converse with people as disgustingly antisemitic as you.

Good.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The problem here is in using generalities and assigning broad and undefined labels. Reading a term such as "racist endeavor" paints the state (as we are discussing in this example) as inherently evil. It doesn't describe what the state does; it defines the state as.

This isn't criticism. Valid criticism wouldn't be reduced to these vague, evil-implicating language terms. Valid criticism would discuss criteria for determining policies, legal frameworks, institutional and systemic discrimination, and social inequities. It would be able to compare those policies, etc on an international scale to create a standard by which all states should be judged.

Insisting that the self-determination of the Jewish people is inherently and uniquely evil (racist) IS antisemitic.

I do not submit to a definition of antisemitism that is inequitable, it expects people to restrict their speech with respect to the state of Israel, a person cannot compare Israeli policies to Nazi policies yet Jews are permitted to compare whatever they want with Nazi Germany.

All racist states have rules that punish criticism of the state, you've adopted racism and bigotry to even argue as you do without bursting into laughter.

This is insanity, Kafkaesque and for this reason we need a term like "ultrasemitism"

Israel was and is a racist endeavor.

 

[The Duke]

You are the one who advocated that Gaza should be bombed with chemical weapons.

I said they should use white phosphorous, and they did! So?

 

[Shusha]

Israel was and is a racist endeavor.

If you insist on using vague, undefined, and evil-implicating labels for Israel and are not capable of or interested in defining terms, making specific claims, providing evidence, drawing comparisons, and addressing counterarguments, then you are simply proving my point.

You only want Israel to be seen as evil. That would fall into a definition of antisemitism by any reasonable person.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

If you insist on using vague, undefined, and evil-implicating labels for Israel and are not capable of or interested in defining terms, making specific claims, providing evidence, drawing comparisons, and addressing counterarguments, then you are simply proving my point.

You only want Israel to be seen as evil. That would fall into a definition of antisemitism by any reasonable person.

Spoken like a true ultrasemite, always seeking to play the victim, frankly it's sickening, truly disgusting and more and more people are waking up to the truth that Israel is a racist monstrosity that's pretended to be a victim ever since the Balfour declaration.

 

[Shusha]

Spoken like a true ultrasemite, always seeking to play the victim, frankly it's sickening, truly disgusting ...

Hey, if requiring terms to be defined, facts to be presented, evidence to be provided and arguments to be addressed competently and accurately rather than just throwing down a, "but they are inherently evil" card on the table, then I will happily take on that label.

 

[rosends]

Meanwhile, the OP started with "I'm propose use of the term "ultrasemitism" to denote the unjustified abuse of falsely labelling a non-Jewish person of being an antisemite."

But I reject that definition of the word as it is dependent on subjective terms like "unjustified" and "falsely" and the fact that it is inherently unfair, being applied only to labelling a non-Jew and not a Jew.

So if I can blithely dismiss the term as proposed, I can use it however I want and it will be an equally valid use of the word. I propose that it means "someone with 3 or more Jewish parents."

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

So if I can blithely dismiss the term as proposed, I can use it however I want and it will be an equally valid use of the word. I propose that it means "someone with 3 or more Jewish parents."

Zionists are throwing "antisemite" around as they see fit, they can accuse anyone they want of that without formal proof, they can just say it and be done. It happens all the time in this forum, on TV, in interviews.

Well I want to be able to do that too, accuse a person of something whenever I feel it's appropriate, you say whatever you want so I will do that too.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

That Jew-hater just said upthread that he would want to see another Holocaust applied to the entire state of Israel - and then gets indignant when he’s called out for what he is. He’s actually worse than your run-of-the mill antisemite: He approves of what the Nazis did and wants it done again.

Can’t get much worse than that. I also believe he’s a sock for George Philip. Same Jew-hating venom; same false British type name. He’s probably a Muslim immigrant.

It is attempting an Orwellian control of language. The idea behind the machinations is that if it can eliminate the worf antisemitism, it can eliminate the ability to address the subhuman hatred involved.

 

[rosends]

Zionists are throwing "antisemite" around as they see fit,

"they" are? I guess all the Zionists I know are doing it wrong. But surely, you know better about what we Zionists do.

they can accuse anyone they want of that without formal proof, they can just say it and be done. It happens all the time in this forum, on TV, in interviews.

all the time. Right now, also! Keep insisting!

Well I want to be able to do that too, accuse a person of something whenever I feel it's appropriate, you say whatever you want so I will do that too.

you already do that. Congratulations -- you are living the dream.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Hey, if requiring terms to be defined, facts to be presented, evidence to be provided and arguments to be addressed competently and accurately rather than just throwing down a, "but they are inherently evil" card on the table, then I will happily take on that label.

Ultrasemite

Is a person who strives to suppress political dissent against the state or government of Israel by making the accusation that one is merely an antisemite and hence speaking on the basis of prejudice rather than morality and justice. Such people strive to thwart free expression and instead seek to impose self censorship that makes it impossible to accurately characterize some Israeli policies and institutions and thus further the ability of a possibly unjust system to maintain an appearance of legitimacy.

 

[Shusha]

Ultrasemite

Is a person who strives to suppress political dissent against the state or government of Israel by making the accusation that one is an antisemite and hence speaking on the basis of prejudice rather than morality. Such people strive to thwart free expression and instead seek to impose self censorship that makes it impossible to accurately characterize Israeli policies and institutions and thus further the ability of a possibly unjust system to maintain an appearance of legitimacy.

Well, hold on a minute. Pick a definition and stick to it. I earned the label of "ultrasemite" by rejecting vague, undefined and evil-implicating terminology and requesting instead definitions, facts, evidence, and solid arguments.

 

[Shusha]

Also, to be absolutely clear, my requests are the opposite of suppression of speech. I am seeking MORE discussion, not less. I want those resorting to vague labels and soundbytes to present their arguments with vigorous, robust, and educated discussion.

 

[Lisa558]

It is attempting an Orwellian control of language. The idea behind the machinations is that if it can eliminate the worf antisemitism, it can eliminate the ability to address the subhuman hatred involved.

Yes, it’s a chilling way to force people to accept that the horrific words used in connection with Jews are not antisemitic, thus normalizing antisemitic attitudes.

It’s a necessary step in getting people to accept Jew-hate, and brainwashing them into thinking that certain actions - be they spitting on Jews, threatening them with death, or being relegated to walking in the curb or blocked from entering stores, is normal behavior when dealing with this “inferior” minority.

(Hitler was a master of this. He started “normalizing” antisemitism a good 10 years before the first cattle car rolled into the ghetto.)

And these are the SAME people who scream non-stop about systemic racism. As I’ve said before, when blacks or Muslims are not allowed to attend their own campuses, or yanked out of their dorm rooms, and assaulted, I’ll be right up front condemning it.

But right now, it’s happening only with Jews.