UN-Privatize Baseball Now. PLEEEASE!!

[dblack]

Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.

Then it will belong to the fans. Until then......

I have started to do just that, by calling my County commisioners, and suggesting that 3 countys together buy the team. Hopefully they'll know how to get the fans going on this, but it really is up to the county guys. And this has already been done in MLB. Cleveland I think it was.

We could have sports as a fourth branch of government.

 

[protectionist]

Once again the headcase has fabricated his own reality and is demanding that everyone accept it as a given. The nut should be quarantined in the Conspiracy Forum where he can only affect the already infected.

Oh God! Who left the cage door open ? Sorry, Winterborn. You'll have to be demoted. You're not USMB TROLL # 1. Not now that Uncletard has shown up. He is, without a doubt USMB TROLL, Loon, Loose Wire # 1. You'll have to settle for # 2, now.

As usual, crazy Uncletard, having escaped from the attic where his relatives had him chained up, now creates straw men ripe for attack. No, tard, I didn't demand anything more than legislators demand acceptance of laws they pass. Or doctors' orders prescribed for people to follow. So tired of his immigration loonieness, the crazy uncle will enjoy his time of freedom out of the attic to rummage through other threads. Pheeeew!!

Sorry, your attempts to label me a troll have failed, yet again.

Once again, I have tried to engage you in a debate and you refuse.

But then, anyone who thinks being disappointed by a sports team constitutes "major harm" can't be playing with a full deck.

Too soon for judgement. As for you being a troll, that's the mods call, not yours, so stop trying to promote yourself. You don't get to do that around here.

And stop lying. You've been debated, and I would say that you've been trounced except you never said anything worthy of being called a "debate". You never started.

 

[dblack]

Also, how does "un-privatize" differ from "socialize"?

 

[protectionist]

Here are some quotes of agreement with the OP from another forum, that the same OP is posted in >>

1. "It is no longer about the game. It's all about the money."

2. "Baseball sucks. Thug athletes suck, baseball unions suck, juice boxing sucks, TV markets suck, slow gameplay sucks, fascist building of ballparks against taxpayer/voter's demands suck. Every single fucking thing about baseball sucks. Everything."

3. "I don't watch baseball anyway. It seems like a painful endeavor for a non big market fan anyhow, with no salary cap and all. Don't some small market teams go 15+ years sometimes without even making the playoffs?"

4. "Born and raised in Pittsburgh, tell me about it."

5. "It's not worth the money to try to watch anymore. Tickets are so outrageous, no one can afford to go to the games, and now you can't even watch many teams play on TV without paying extra to get the channel. High paid salaries and greediness has doomed National sports. and just think, all to become a used car salesman ala John Elway...."

6. "Being a Pirates fan seems like a masochistic endeavor."
"We call them The Irates."

7. " Basically all professional sports have become big business and they are all suffering for the same reason. Meh, I don't watch except during the Olympics when players are acting out of pride rather than for money."

8. "I played almost daily sandlot sports as a youngster and had some of the best times of my life. As a lifelong sports fan I have come to realize that the sandlot is the only pure form of sports , where they are played for pure and simple love of the game.
Two things ruin sports
1) Adults
2) Money and the more money the more the ruin"

I hate to say it, but often I find a distinct lower level of intelligence in this forum. Sometimes we have to go to another forum just to get even a modicum of intelligent posting. Then we also have whiny boys like Uncletard and Wintergreen who have had their asses handed to them by me so many times that they feel compelled to troll-harass me, just to save face, or muster up some self-respect. Sad. So sad. Bwa ha ha ha ha.

 

[protectionist]

Hundreds of posts online against almost 75 million fans buying tickets and attending a game. lol

Now back to this "major harm" claim. I can see being disappointed. I can see not wanting to find a new hobby or new teams to watch. But neither of those two things are "major harm" by any stretch of the imagination.

Care to define the "major harm" the citizenry is experiencing? (I'm guessing you won't)

You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".

1. Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.

2. For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.

3. You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it. Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.

Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?

What the hell is that goofy question supposed to mean ?

 

[WinterBorn]

Oh God! Who left the cage door open ? Sorry, Winterborn. You'll have to be demoted. You're not USMB TROLL # 1. Not now that Uncletard has shown up. He is, without a doubt USMB TROLL, Loon, Loose Wire # 1. You'll have to settle for # 2, now.

As usual, crazy Uncletard, having escaped from the attic where his relatives had him chained up, now creates straw men ripe for attack. No, tard, I didn't demand anything more than legislators demand acceptance of laws they pass. Or doctors' orders prescribed for people to follow. So tired of his immigration loonieness, the crazy uncle will enjoy his time of freedom out of the attic to rummage through other threads. Pheeeew!!

Sorry, your attempts to label me a troll have failed, yet again.

Once again, I have tried to engage you in a debate and you refuse.

But then, anyone who thinks being disappointed by a sports team constitutes "major harm" can't be playing with a full deck.

Too soon for judgement. As for you being a troll, that's the mods call, not yours, so stop trying to promote yourself. You don't get to do that around here.

And stop lying. You've been debated, and I would say that you've been trounced except you never said anything worthy of being called a "debate". You never started.

LMAO!!! I kept pressing for what "major harm" was done, and you stayed with the fact that you are disappointed in the way MLB has changed.

YOu have done nothing but demand that your disappointment result in the gov't taking over a private enterprise and steal billions of dollars worth of private property.

You have denied that baseball teams have a financial worth.

You have claimed the gov't should take over MLB in the interest of the safety of the citizens. (and refused to say why it was unsafe now)

You have claimed that cheating the owners and the players out of billions of dollars was justified because hundreds of fans were writing angry posts online.

And whenever you started getting pressed for an answer, you went back to claiming to report me for harassment, and making snide remarks about the cigar in my pic. (I think you claim to report people in the hopes thatthey will then be afraid to continue. Sorry, doesn't work)

You haven't trounced anyone. And despite the large variety of posters who join in this thread, not one agreed with your plan to rob the rightful owners of the teams.

You poor, poor man. That disappointment is so great that you call it "major harm".

So tell us what is unsafe about MLB? You want the gov't to take it over for the safety of the people. What is unsafe??? (and don't try that tired old "I've already answered this, because that is a lie you've told once too often)

 

[WinterBorn]

You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".

1. Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.

2. For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.

3. You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it. Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.

Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?

What the hell is that goofy question supposed to mean ?

Because one of the things you are pissed off at MLB about is players moving from one team to another and free agency. You keep ranting about players playing their entire career on one team, as if that means anything. You buy a few tickets and watch some games on tv and think you should have a say in whether a player can move to another team or not???

lol Talk about delusions of grandeur.

 

[WinterBorn]

Here are some quotes of agreement with the OP from another forum, that the same OP is posted in >>

1. "It is no longer about the game. It's all about the money."

2. "Baseball sucks. Thug athletes suck, baseball unions suck, juice boxing sucks, TV markets suck, slow gameplay sucks, fascist building of ballparks against taxpayer/voter's demands suck. Every single fucking thing about baseball sucks. Everything."

3. "I don't watch baseball anyway. It seems like a painful endeavor for a non big market fan anyhow, with no salary cap and all. Don't some small market teams go 15+ years sometimes without even making the playoffs?"

4. "Born and raised in Pittsburgh, tell me about it."

5. "It's not worth the money to try to watch anymore. Tickets are so outrageous, no one can afford to go to the games, and now you can't even watch many teams play on TV without paying extra to get the channel. High paid salaries and greediness has doomed National sports. and just think, all to become a used car salesman ala John Elway...."

6. "Being a Pirates fan seems like a masochistic endeavor."
"We call them The Irates."

7. " Basically all professional sports have become big business and they are all suffering for the same reason. Meh, I don't watch except during the Olympics when players are acting out of pride rather than for money."

8. "I played almost daily sandlot sports as a youngster and had some of the best times of my life. As a lifelong sports fan I have come to realize that the sandlot is the only pure form of sports , where they are played for pure and simple love of the game.
Two things ruin sports
1) Adults
2) Money and the more money the more the ruin"

I hate to say it, but often I find a distinct lower level of intelligence in this forum. Sometimes we have to go to another forum just to get even a modicum of intelligent posting. Then we also have whiny boys like Uncletard and Wintergreen who have had their asses handed to them by me so many times that they feel compelled to troll-harass me, just to save face, or muster up some self-respect. Sad. So sad. Bwa ha ha ha ha.

You have run from me in every thread we were in together.

And your posting quotes from another forum may make you feel better. But finding more childish rants and temper tantrums does not change the facts.

Tell us what is unsafe about MLB??

 

[Unkotare]

Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years.

Aw, I was hoping you'd say "breathing." Ah well. As for your little socialist rant - too fucking bad. The owners of professional baseball teams are OWNERS. Go start up your own little communist league if you want. See how well you and your workers of the world unite on the diamond. Not too fucking well, I'd imagine.

Not too well ? HA HA. Why not?

Because empty-headed little socialist dreamers like you couldn't make a nose run, let alone a business of any kind. If capitalism bothers you so much, North Korea is thataway...

 

[dblack]

You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".

1. Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.

2. For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.

3. You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it. Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.

Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?

What the hell is that goofy question supposed to mean ?

Should they be 'allowed' to make money on their own? Or should they be required to get permission from their owners first?

 

[HUGGY]

Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years. I ceased to be a major league baseball fan. I started out as a kid rooting for the New York Yankees in the 1950s. After I moved to California in the late 70s, I became an Oakland As fan, and in the late 90s, I became a Tampa Bay Rays fan. But yesterday the private owners of the Rays caused me to drop the game of baseball from my life entirely, when they cut loose the Rays star pitcher, David Price, and his big salary, to Detroit, and pretended it was a trade. They got really nothing in return. In fact the 2 active players they got are more likely to hurt the Rays than help them.

The bottom line of this is that these guys (owners) are wrecking the game of baseball, that we fans have known and love and followed all our lives. And why ? Simple. Because to them, it isn't a game of baseball. It's a stock market. It's a profit and loss statement. A balance sheet, etc. These guys couldn't care less what happens to the team. They are looking at this from a MONEY perspective, period.

Older fans like myself remember the days back when it wasn't anything like this. There was no free agency for the players. Some of the greatest players ever to perform on a field (Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Mickey Mantle, etc.) played for one team only for 20 years. Teams were not revolving doors, where each year, fans wonder who their teams' players are.

In the case of the Rays, they are in a significant year. On June 10th, the team was 18 games under .500. Now they are right up in contention once again , and have the best record in baseball since June. Things are going great, and the fans are excited. And what happens ? Mr. Moneybags steps in and starts dismantling the foundations of the team (just to save money).

OK. He is a capitalist trying to make a profit. But the baseball team is much more than just his PROPERTY. It is a cultural entity in the area. The Rays are an institution in the Tampa bay area, and I'm sure it's the same with other teams in other places. What New York baseball fan my age will ever forget when the Giants and Dodgers left New York and went to the west coast ?.....leaving millions of fans heartbroken.

It is time to get baseball out of the hands of the moneychangers, and into the hands of the FANS, who care about baseball and its welfare. For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee, and that the Rays play 1/3 of their home games in each of those counties. It is critical to get baseball out of the hands of these dollar sharks, who probably don't know a curve ball, from a balk, from a sacrifice fly, ans are wrecking the game of professional baseball.

You start out claiming you are no longer a fan then reel off all this blah...blah blah that a TRUE non fan would rather jam white hot ice picks in his eyes than endure...

A TRUE non-fan does not care what happens to baseball...

Your only real hope is that being old you will die soon and this stupidity will all be over...thankfully.

 

[protectionist]

Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?

What the hell is that goofy question supposed to mean ?

Should they be 'allowed' to make money on their own? Or should they be required to get permission from their owners first?

HA HA. I don't know what THAT is supposed to mean either. Maybe it would help if you would get more to the point,and use a few more words. Your questions don't seem to make any sense. Also, did you read the OP ?

 

[protectionist]

yesterday, i quit doing something that i have been doing for 60 years. I ceased to be a major league baseball fan. I started out as a kid rooting for the new york yankees in the 1950s. After i moved to california in the late 70s, i became an oakland as fan, and in the late 90s, i became a tampa bay rays fan. But yesterday the private owners of the rays caused me to drop the game of baseball from my life entirely, when they cut loose the rays star pitcher, david price, and his big salary, to detroit, and pretended it was a trade. They got really nothing in return. In fact the 2 active players they got are more likely to hurt the rays than help them.

The bottom line of this is that these guys (owners) are wrecking the game of baseball, that we fans have known and love and followed all our lives. And why ? Simple. Because to them, it isn't a game of baseball. It's a stock market. It's a profit and loss statement. A balance sheet, etc. These guys couldn't care less what happens to the team. They are looking at this from a money perspective, period.

Older fans like myself remember the days back when it wasn't anything like this. There was no free agency for the players. Some of the greatest players ever to perform on a field (ted williams, stan musial, mickey mantle, etc.) played for one team only for 20 years. Teams were not revolving doors, where each year, fans wonder who their teams' players are.

In the case of the rays, they are in a significant year. On june 10th, the team was 18 games under .500. Now they are right up in contention once again , and have the best record in baseball since june. Things are going great, and the fans are excited. And what happens ? Mr. Moneybags steps in and starts dismantling the foundations of the team (just to save money).

Ok. He is a capitalist trying to make a profit. But the baseball team is much more than just his property. It is a cultural entity in the area. The rays are an institution in the tampa bay area, and i'm sure it's the same with other teams in other places. What new york baseball fan my age will ever forget when the giants and dodgers left new york and went to the west coast ?.....leaving millions of fans heartbroken.

It is time to get baseball out of the hands of the moneychangers, and into the hands of the fans, who care about baseball and its welfare. For the rays (similar scenario for other teams), i suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of pinellas, hillsborough, and manatee, and that the rays play 1/3 of their home games in each of those counties. It is critical to get baseball out of the hands of these dollar sharks, who probably don't know a curve ball, from a balk, from a sacrifice fly, ans are wrecking the game of professional baseball.

you start out claiming you are no longer a fan then reel off all this blah...blah blah that a true non fan would rather jam white hot ice picks in his eyes than endure...

A true non-fan does not care what happens to baseball...

Your only real hope is that being old you will die soon and this stupidity will all be over...thankfully.

go fuck yourself, scumbag/imbecile. :d

 

[protectionist]

Aw, I was hoping you'd say "breathing." Ah well. As for your little socialist rant - too fucking bad. The owners of professional baseball teams are OWNERS. Go start up your own little communist league if you want. See how well you and your workers of the world unite on the diamond. Not too fucking well, I'd imagine.

Not too well ? HA HA. Why not?

Because empty-headed little socialist dreamers like you couldn't make a nose run, let alone a business of any kind. If capitalism bothers you so much, North Korea is thataway...

I owned my own business for 12 years, after starting it on $50, and expanded it to 3 branch offices in 3 counties. It was successful up to the time I chose to sell it. You're an IDIOT, as always.

 

[Pogo]

Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.

Then it will belong to the fans. Until then......

Hey, the Packers did it.

 

[Pogo]

So you want the gov't to step in and steal major league basebal teams from their rightful owners and give them to some sort of halfassed citizen consortium??

You want to cheat the team owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars, and take their property, against their will and by force, all because you don't like the way they are playing the game now??

I have seen some suggestions for temper tantrums, but this one takes the cake.

No, I'd like to see govt step in and TAKE BACK what MLB owners have stolen from the fans. The game of pro baseball. And where do you get off calling a citizen consortium "half-assed" ? What is "half-assed" is this whole mish-mash that baseball has turned into, by being run by baseball ignorant greed freaks.

Yes, I want to nationalize the leagues, I think you heard me right, but it's not because I "don't like the way they are playing the game now". YOU KNOW why. It's because they've made a shambles out of it, and everyone knows it.
And it's not a temper tantrum. It is form following function (as they used to tell us in college, remember ? )

Owners stole baseball from the fans?
?
Really? When did the fans own and bankroll the teams that the owners stole?

Nah, he's right. Baseball Inc. has stolen the spirit of the game. I literally cannot watch so much as an individual play highlight without being forced to sit through a commercial. And as far as buying a ticket, forget it -- I could buy a set of tires for less. It's become all about greed, and that's not what the Game is.

 

[protectionist]

Sorry, your attempts to label me a troll have failed, yet again.

Once again, I have tried to engage you in a debate and you refuse.

But then, anyone who thinks being disappointed by a sports team constitutes "major harm" can't be playing with a full deck.

Too soon for judgement. As for you being a troll, that's the mods call, not yours, so stop trying to promote yourself. You don't get to do that around here.

And stop lying. You've been debated, and I would say that you've been trounced except you never said anything worthy of being called a "debate". You never started.

LMAO!!! I kept pressing for what "major harm" was done, and you stayed with the fact that you are disappointed in the way MLB has changed.

YOu have done nothing but demand that your disappointment result in the gov't taking over a private enterprise and steal billions of dollars worth of private property.

You have denied that baseball teams have a financial worth.

You have claimed the gov't should take over MLB in the interest of the safety of the citizens. (and refused to say why it was unsafe now)

You have claimed that cheating the owners and the players out of billions of dollars was justified because hundreds of fans were writing angry posts online.

And whenever you started getting pressed for an answer, you went back to claiming to report me for harassment, and making snide remarks about the cigar in my pic. (I think you claim to report people in the hopes thatthey will then be afraid to continue. Sorry, doesn't work)

You haven't trounced anyone. And despite the large variety of posters who join in this thread, not one agreed with your plan to rob the rightful owners of the teams.

You poor, poor man. That disappointment is so great that you call it "major harm".

So tell us what is unsafe about MLB? You want the gov't to take it over for the safety of the people. What is unsafe??? (and don't try that tired old "I've already answered this, because that is a lie you've told once too often)

I know what I've said, and your false proclamations don't change anything. I need not say anything more than what I said in the OP, and you haven't said ANYTHING.

Now what's all this drivel about safety ? I haven't said anything about safety. That's your latest troll tactic ? Changing the subject ?

And you know damn well what the major harm is so don't try that tired old "you haven't answerd my question" bullshit, because that is a lie you've told once too often.

You see any harm here, huh ? HA HA HA. Oh no, a Cy Young award-winning all-star is traded for 2 LOSERS, and you see no harm. You don't lie very well.

 

[protectionist]

Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.

Then it will belong to the fans. Until then......

Hey, the Packers did it.

That's what I've been suggesting to him. Then he suggests it back to me (as in your quote), and then complains that I don't have a good idea. This is what trolling looks like.

 

[protectionist]

Here are some quotes of agreement with the OP from another forum, that the same OP is posted in >>

1. "It is no longer about the game. It's all about the money."

2. "Baseball sucks. Thug athletes suck, baseball unions suck, juice boxing sucks, TV markets suck, slow gameplay sucks, fascist building of ballparks against taxpayer/voter's demands suck. Every single fucking thing about baseball sucks. Everything."

3. "I don't watch baseball anyway. It seems like a painful endeavor for a non big market fan anyhow, with no salary cap and all. Don't some small market teams go 15+ years sometimes without even making the playoffs?"

4. "Born and raised in Pittsburgh, tell me about it."

5. "It's not worth the money to try to watch anymore. Tickets are so outrageous, no one can afford to go to the games, and now you can't even watch many teams play on TV without paying extra to get the channel. High paid salaries and greediness has doomed National sports. and just think, all to become a used car salesman ala John Elway...."

6. "Being a Pirates fan seems like a masochistic endeavor."
"We call them The Irates."

7. " Basically all professional sports have become big business and they are all suffering for the same reason. Meh, I don't watch except during the Olympics when players are acting out of pride rather than for money."

8. "I played almost daily sandlot sports as a youngster and had some of the best times of my life. As a lifelong sports fan I have come to realize that the sandlot is the only pure form of sports , where they are played for pure and simple love of the game.
Two things ruin sports
1) Adults
2) Money and the more money the more the ruin"

I hate to say it, but often I find a distinct lower level of intelligence in this forum. Sometimes we have to go to another forum just to get even a modicum of intelligent posting. Then we also have whiny boys like Uncletard and Wintergreen who have had their asses handed to them by me so many times that they feel compelled to troll-harass me, just to save face, or muster up some self-respect. Sad. So sad. Bwa ha ha ha ha.

You have run from me in every thread we were in together.

And your posting quotes from another forum may make you feel better. But finding more childish rants and temper tantrums does not change the facts.

Tell us what is unsafe about MLB??

I have run from you, huh ? HA HA HA. I rub from you, cigar face, like I run from a ladybug. My posting quotes from another forum does make me feel a little better. But it also shows what an idiot you are, and a few of your pitiful cheerleaders who showed up here, who have even less of a clue that you.

And what should I tell you what is unsafe about MLB? That's off topic. I don't go around posting off topic. Mostly just trolls like you do that.

 

[WinterBorn]

Too soon for judgement. As for you being a troll, that's the mods call, not yours, so stop trying to promote yourself. You don't get to do that around here.

And stop lying. You've been debated, and I would say that you've been trounced except you never said anything worthy of being called a "debate". You never started.

LMAO!!! I kept pressing for what "major harm" was done, and you stayed with the fact that you are disappointed in the way MLB has changed.

YOu have done nothing but demand that your disappointment result in the gov't taking over a private enterprise and steal billions of dollars worth of private property.

You have denied that baseball teams have a financial worth.

You have claimed the gov't should take over MLB in the interest of the safety of the citizens. (and refused to say why it was unsafe now)

You have claimed that cheating the owners and the players out of billions of dollars was justified because hundreds of fans were writing angry posts online.

And whenever you started getting pressed for an answer, you went back to claiming to report me for harassment, and making snide remarks about the cigar in my pic. (I think you claim to report people in the hopes thatthey will then be afraid to continue. Sorry, doesn't work)

You haven't trounced anyone. And despite the large variety of posters who join in this thread, not one agreed with your plan to rob the rightful owners of the teams.

You poor, poor man. That disappointment is so great that you call it "major harm".

So tell us what is unsafe about MLB? You want the gov't to take it over for the safety of the people. What is unsafe??? (and don't try that tired old "I've already answered this, because that is a lie you've told once too often)

I know what I've said, and your false proclamations don't change anything. I need not say anything more than what I said in the OP, and you haven't said ANYTHING.

Now what's all this drivel about safety ? I haven't said anything about safety. That's your latest troll tactic ? Changing the subject ?

And you know damn well what the major harm is so don't try that tired old "you haven't answerd my question" bullshit, because that is a lie you've told once too often.

You see any harm here, huh ? HA HA HA. Oh no, a Cy Young award-winning all-star is traded for 2 LOSERS, and you see no harm. You don't lie very well.

Oh no! A Cy Young award winner traded for 2 losers??? Oh the pain you must be suffering!!

Bullshit. It is NOT major harm. Your team sucks and you are pissed off about it. Fine. But don't lie and say it is "major harm" to anyone in any real way. That is simply a lie.

And your idea that players not get free agency? How is that a plus?? You want players to be forced to play for one team for as long as they play? Or only get to move to a new team when they get traded?? Yeah, that is taking away the freedoms of the players. Now THEY would have a claim of major harm.

You want players to play for between $100k and $300k a year. That is, at the best, $200k less than the minimum pay for players now. Costing someone (at the absolute LEAST) $200k a year is Major harm.

Owners have invested millions of dollars of their money into these teams. You want to steal them. Losses like that would be considered Major harm.

But you have not suffered major harm. And if you think being mad because you are a fan of a team that did stupid shit constitutes major harm, you are even more delusional than I thought. (and you saying you would take my cigar away and put it out in my drink showed you to be seriously delusional)