Unequal distribution of wealth

[georgephillip]

JFK?
RFK??
MLK???

Maybe it's only a coincidence how each felt about the military/industrial/congressional complex and its affects on Democracy and the motives of the cowards who ordered their murders?

 

[Too Tall]

In other words, confiscation of wealth government deems excessive to do with as government dictates.

And here we have a case study in wingnuttery. Notice how the wingnut does not take issue with anything that was actually said. Notice how he attempts to fit what was said into his spoon fed dogma. Now, one could take his strawman at face value, that I am advocating economy by governemnt dictate or one could actually think a little.

How about some examples of this eeeeevil spending done by "dictate of government. A road. I mean, what could possibly be more evil than a road? I've got it! Clearly sewer systems are more evil than roads. Even more evil still? How about schools. OOOOooo, eeeevil.

But, the wingnut would just retreat in to secondary dogma regarding the relative eeeevilness of national as opposed to local government. Again, one could take the dogma at face value or one could actually think a little.

What monstrous eeeeevil does the federal government do by dictate? Hmmm, they form a military. They make things like rural electrification and the interstate highway system. They provide wildly popular social programs like Social Security and Medicare.

EEEeeeeevil.

So, not only does the wingnuts strawman not address the real world problems with the mal distribution of wealth, the rhetoric isn't even remotely reminiscent of the real world.

I guess that's why we call them wingnuts.

Interesting choice of words.

They provide wildly popular social programs like Social Security and Medicare.

The government made it mandatory for the wage earners to pay into these INSURANCE programs, and of course some of the folks collecting their benefits after paying the premiums are satisfied.

The fact that the government provided an unsustainable ponzi scheme will eventually get through to the liberalnuts.

Is eeeeeeevil supposed to be clever?

 

[MikeK]

Wealth is like Respect, it isn't given by the gov, it is earned. Only a lib would think otherwise.

"Earned?"

How does one "earn" a hundred milliion dollars? Can you tell us? How about a billion dollars? Ten billion. Twenty billion.

Can you even conceive of yourself " earning" a million dollars? If so, how? Specifics, please. No broad suppositions.

Key question: Do you consider scheming and manipulating altruistic rules to be "earning" in the same sense as is honest, hard work? Or do you think of "earning" in the same sense as Tony Soprano did?

 

[georgephillip]

Wealth is like Respect, it isn't given by the gov, it is earned. Only a lib would think otherwise.

"Earned?"

How does one "earn" a hundred milliion dollars? Can you tell us? How about a billion dollars? Ten billion. Twenty billion.

Can you even conceive of yourself " earning" a million dollars? If so, how? Specifics, please. No broad suppositions.

Key question: Do you consider scheming and manipulating altruistic rules to be "earning" in the same sense as is honest, hard work? Or do you think of "earning" in the same sense as Tony Soprano did?

Or even "earning" in the same sense the Treasury Department did between 2009-2011:

"The Treasury Department approved pay packages worth $5 million or more for 49 executives at a handful of firms that received the biggest taxpayer bailouts between 2009 and 2011."

Massive Pay Packages for Execs Who Got Taxpayer Bailout Money | Common Dreams

 

[Katzndogz]

Equality can only exist in a totalitarian oppressive society. Freedom and equality cannot exist together.
There can be no equality without an overriding power to force equality. Freedom means the ability to succeed or fail on one's own merit and abilities.

 

[Katzndogz]

Wealth is like Respect, it isn't given by the gov, it is earned. Only a lib would think otherwise.

"Earned?"

How does one "earn" a hundred milliion dollars? Can you tell us? How about a billion dollars? Ten billion. Twenty billion.

Can you even conceive of yourself " earning" a million dollars? If so, how? Specifics, please. No broad suppositions.

Key question: Do you consider scheming and manipulating altruistic rules to be "earning" in the same sense as is honest, hard work? Or do you think of "earning" in the same sense as Tony Soprano did?

To celebrities earnings of a million dollars is paltry. Successful sports stars and movie stars earn more than that for a single movie or game.

To others, they earned their money because they had a good idea or made a wise decision. They didn't steal the idea, nor did they someone rob someone else of a wise decision.

Still others earn their money by creating something that others want. They paint a picture, design a gown, write a book. They did not strong arm someone else out of their talent and seize it for themselves.

All these things are earning their million or hundred million or trillion.

 

[P@triot]

I'd like to know why the unequal distribution of wealth is a bad thing. This seems to be a major premise from those on the left, but it's like you just assume it's a bad thing without every really providing evidence or justifying the premise.

First of all, there is no "distribution" of wealth at all. There are those who are brilliant, hard working, driven, etc. who EARN wealth, and then there are liberals who smoke pot, are too lazy to get a job, and cry that others "owe" them.

There is no, nor has there ever been, distribution of anything in America. It's just the term the pot smoking idiots use to justify why others owe them.

 

[P@triot]

Wealth is like Respect, it isn't given by the gov, it is earned. Only a lib would think otherwise.

"Earned?"

How does one "earn" a hundred milliion dollars? Can you tell us? How about a billion dollars? Ten billion. Twenty billion.

Can you even conceive of yourself " earning" a million dollars? If so, how? Specifics, please. No broad suppositions.

Key question: Do you consider scheming and manipulating altruistic rules to be "earning" in the same sense as is honest, hard work? Or do you think of "earning" in the same sense as Tony Soprano did?

Seriously? Are you that stupid? How did Bill Gates earn $50 billion? Did he extort and murder? No you idiot. He was a lot smarter than you and created a product that people needed. How did Steve Jobs become a bilionaire? Did he rob banks? No you idiot. He created a bunch of products that people absolutely love.

You liberals are so freaking ignorant and lazy. Stop feeling so fucking sorry for your sorry ass selves and go create something!!! Create a business, create a product, create a service, and you too will be wealthy. God Almighty, what a bunch of self-pity cry babies you people are.

 

[MikeK]

Equality can only exist in a totalitarian oppressive society. Freedom and equality cannot exist together.
There can be no equality without an overriding power to force equality. Freedom means the ability to succeed or fail on one's own merit and abilities.

The point you (and others) overlook is no one has advocated "equality" with regard to income or assets. No one!

Right wing propagandists, however, have executed a tricky little paso doble by substituting the word "equal" for the word equitable, which means fair. Socialists are not communists. We are not opposed to wealth. But we understand the destructive potential of excessive wealth, such as we are witnessing today.

You may rest assured if the Framers of the Constitution, most of whom were themselves wealthy men, could have foreseen the Industrial Revolution and the consequent potential of the modern United States to generate massive revenues they would have included appropriate controls in the Document to preclude excessive accumulation (hoarding) and to ensure equitable distribution of that revenue -- all of which is generated by exploiting the Nation's material, administrative and human resources.

 

[Darkwind]

Fail. What my worldview cannot do is say THIS:

is okay.

That, is not about us, it is about the Totalitarian Regimes that have no respect for the lives of their own citizens.

We all live in the same world, my friend.

Some would argue that they who do nothing stand beside those who do evil.

That argument would be false.

You'll note that you will not find that kind of thing here in the developed world. Why is that?

Because in the countries where that kind of thing happens, the governments are so totalitarian and confiscatory, that the people at the bottom cannot survive. A closed, and centralized government is responsible for your attempted emotional blackmail, not a wealth gap.

Now, if you say that your world view cannot tolerate such happenstances, why is it that you are not screaming at the top of your lungs for the western world to step in and overthrow governments that allow this to happen, and then institute free markets where the poor are thousands of times richer than those in the countries you claim to not be able to bear.

Taking the wealth from this nation will NOT alleviate or prevent the horror in that country.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Wealth is like Respect, it isn't given by the gov, it is earned. Only a lib would think otherwise.

"Earned?"

How does one "earn" a hundred milliion dollars? Can you tell us? How about a billion dollars? Ten billion. Twenty billion.

Can you even conceive of yourself " earning" a million dollars? If so, how? Specifics, please. No broad suppositions.

Key question: Do you consider scheming and manipulating altruistic rules to be "earning" in the same sense as is honest, hard work? Or do you think of "earning" in the same sense as Tony Soprano did?

Brilliant minds coupled with ideas to start new industries( Gates/ Jobs) or those who came up with a better idea of running an existing business( Wayne Huizenga Waste Management/Blockbuster Video)...EARNED every penny they collected.
People who design and engineer things....The guy that invented those big blue tarps....Or the people that designed the electronics for the automatic irrigation systems. The people that invent and design the machines that those blue collar workers use to earn their living.
Is it your contention that these people never earned a dime of their income?
If so, you are indeed a closed minded individual.
Work is not just production with the hands of blue collar labor.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Three questions for Uncle Sucker:

How many immigrants pushed for the 1999 Financial Services Modernization Act which effectively repealed Glass-Steagal?

What percentage of immigrants currently profit from 13 years of legislation allowing Credit Ratings Agencies to change their business models from Investor pays to Underwriter pays?

Did Alan Greenspan have his Green Card between 2001-2004 when he dropped Fed fund rates to 1%, "...set)ing) off an inflationary spiral in housing, commodities, and in most assets priced in dollars or credit."

Do shit-for-brains conservatives never tire of sucking up to rich parasites?

Dear Uncle Sucker . . . | The Big Picture

Non Sequitur.
Those questions are irrelevant.
The fact that there are over 20 million( that's a US govt guess) than there were in 2000.
90% of them are poor. most of those are on public assistance.
Their mere presence in the workforce has dragged down average wages and thus skewed the average net worth of each household downward.
Add that to the fact that home values overall are down since 2008. Some MSA's are seeing home values down 50%. Las Vegas is the "champ" at nearly 60%.
The nation has lost 10 years of real estate value equity.
The class warfare argument no longer works. It's crap and has been dismissed.

"Non sequitur (Latin for 'it does not follow'), in formal logic, is an argument in which its conclusion does not follow from its premises."

So you're confused about the logical connection between Greenspan's manipulation of the Fed's funds rate between 2001-2004 and "the fact that home values overall are down since (the Greenspan Bubble burst) in 2008?

Which economic class has found the most ways to profit from our lost decade of real estate equity value?

The immigrants?

Immigrants have ZERO to do with this. Nada Zip Zero.....
BTW Bernanke is manipulating the US Dollar and keeping interest rates artificially low.
So go and find another clever response.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Equality can only exist in a totalitarian oppressive society. Freedom and equality cannot exist together.
There can be no equality without an overriding power to force equality. Freedom means the ability to succeed or fail on one's own merit and abilities.

The point you (and others) overlook is no one has advocated "equality" with regard to income or assets. No one!

Right wing propagandists, however, have executed a tricky little paso doble by substituting the word "equal" for the word equitable, which means fair. Socialists are not communists. We are not opposed to wealth. But we understand the destructive potential of excessive wealth, such as we are witnessing today.

You may rest assured if the Framers of the Constitution, most of whom were themselves wealthy men, could have foreseen the Industrial Revolution and the consequent potential of the modern United States to generate massive revenues they would have included appropriate controls in the Document to preclude excessive accumulation (hoarding) and to ensure equitable distribution of that revenue -- all of which is generated by exploiting the Nation's material, administrative and human resources.

Here is where the left's argument fails. You use descriptive words such as "equitable" "excessive", etc. You use these words in such a manner that it presupposes the need for some one or some authority to DECIDE how much is "NOT excessive" is "equitable".
Ok WHO gets to decide? In who's idea of a comfort level do we place pour trust to make that determination?
What amount is the limit that will be set by those who get to decide?
Your premise falls into the area of an income or wealth cap. Good luck with that.
Oh let's say it becomes law tomorrow..The first people to bitch will be those Hollywood liberal elites like George Clooney. How do you think that will work out for ya?
Hoarding? HUH?!!!! Who the hell are you to decide or even consider what another private individual does with HIS property?

 

[MikeK]

To celebrities earnings of a million dollars is paltry. Successful sports stars and movie stars earn more than that for a single movie or game.

To others, they earned their money because they had a good idea or made a wise decision. They didn't steal the idea, nor did they someone rob someone else of a wise decision.

Still others earn their money by creating something that others want. They paint a picture, design a gown, write a book. They did not strong arm someone else out of their talent and seize it for themselves.

All these things are earning their million or hundred million or trillion.

There was a time in America when producing something of value was the way to acquire a fortune but the present situation is substantially different. The way most fortunes have been accumulated in recent years is by exploiting deviously conceived manipulations of the Nation's financial mechanisms. The most successful of these financial manipulations been facilitated by lobbying (bribing) our legislators to eliminate regulations (E.g. the Glass/Steagall act, for one) which for decades had protected the working class and ensured the equitable distribution of the Nation's wealth resources.

Prior to the Reagan Presidency the average corporate CEO was paid about ten times as much as the highest paid employee. Today the percentage has increased tenfold.

Schemes like "Credit Default Swaps" and "Collateralized Debt Obligations," which once were prevented by regulations, have enabled bankers and Wall Street sharks to accumulate immense fortunes by nearly collapsing the Economy and creating the worst financial catastrophe since the Great Depression.

Greedy corporatists have created huge fortunes by moving jobs overseas and putting millions of Americans out of work.

Those are just a few of the ways fortunes are made today. The days of Horatio Alger style initiative and "hard work" are over.

Anyone who wishes to see a clear picture of how the Nation's wealth has been looted by just 4% of the population need only Google "Wealth Distribution In America" for access to dozens of authoritative articles and charts.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I'd like to know why the unequal distribution of wealth is a bad thing. This seems to be a major premise from those on the left, but it's like you just assume it's a bad thing without every really providing evidence or justifying the premise.

Unequal distribution of wealth isn't a bad thing. The question is whether or not it leads to the betterment of everyone willing to work an honest day - or to the betterment of only a select few.

I wouldn't want to bother you with the complications, as I understand the right wing likes to label everything as either "good", "bad", or "communist" and leave it at that.

 

[Avatar4321]

I started a thread that's still going 2 years later. And yet, I still havent seen a good answer.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I started a thread that's still going 2 years later. And yet, I still havent seen a good answer.

Unequal distribution of wealth is an attribute of almost every society ever - those with good systems and those with bad ones.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Wealth is like Respect, it isn't given by the gov, it is earned. Only a lib would think otherwise.

"Earned?"

How does one "earn" a hundred milliion dollars? Can you tell us? How about a billion dollars? Ten billion. Twenty billion.

Can you even conceive of yourself " earning" a million dollars? If so, how? Specifics, please. No broad suppositions.

Key question: Do you consider scheming and manipulating altruistic rules to be "earning" in the same sense as is honest, hard work? Or do you think of "earning" in the same sense as Tony Soprano did?

Seriously? Are you that stupid? How did Bill Gates earn $50 billion? Did he extort and murder? No you idiot. He was a lot smarter than you and created a product that people needed. How did Steve Jobs become a bilionaire? Did he rob banks? No you idiot. He created a bunch of products that people absolutely love.

You liberals are so freaking ignorant and lazy. Stop feeling so fucking sorry for your sorry ass selves and go create something!!! Create a business, create a product, create a service, and you too will be wealthy. God Almighty, what a bunch of self-pity cry babies you people are.

He also happened to be one of the few 13 year olds of his day with access to a PC.

 

[Reptilian]

There more redistribution of wealth coming from the Republicans.

 

[Chris]

I'd like to know why the unequal distribution of wealth is a bad thing. This seems to be a major premise from those on the left, but it's like you just assume it's a bad thing without every really providing evidence or justifying the premise.

To Republicans "job creation" is code for tax cuts for the rich. We tried that for the last 30 years, and it has not worked. Why? Because 70% of the economy is consumer demand. Putting more and more money in fewer and fewer hands reduces demand. Raise taxes on the rich, cut defense, and balance the budget the way Clinton did. George Bush almost destroyed America. Let's bring it back.