Unions in the US

[manifold]

Are Unions Necessary?

No!!!

And neither is a middle class I suppose.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

With the laws and regulations we now have on the books about compensation and safety in the workplace unions are no longer necessary.

Thats the answer in a nutshell.

maybe where you work.....

You're place of employment is exempt from OSHA, EEOC rules, etc.?

Unions are unnecessary... hence their dwindling ranks. Good riddance to bad rubbish I say.

I am curious on this too H.D..

What do workers specifically need a union to protect them from in our current state? Maybe you know or see something I'm overlooking. I'm not asking to be a dick...I truly want to know.

 

[rightwinger]

maybe where you work.....

You're place of employment is exempt from OSHA, EEOC rules, etc.?

Unions are unnecessary... hence their dwindling ranks. Good riddance to bad rubbish I say.

I am curious on this too H.D..

What do workers specifically need a union to protect them from in our current state? Maybe you know or see something I'm overlooking. I'm not asking to be a dick...I truly want to know.

Working conditions, benefits, punative actions, worker rights...same as always

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Back at some time in the long past unions were used to assure there was equitable power between owners and workers. That time is long past, of course.
Today there is not an industry traditionally dominated by unions that has not experienced stagnation and shrinkage. But even more, the need for unions to engage in collective bargaining is moribund, as workers are better educated and better informed.
Unions exist basically through a waiver in anti trust law. Is it not now time to repeal that waiver and outlaw unions as they have traditionally been constituted? This is especially so with public-sector unions, which seem to pose a direct financial threat to the entities they serve.

Really Rabbi, tell the truth. What experience do you have with unions and union negotiations? And have you ever taken and passed U.S. History?
You're such a troll it's hard to believe you're as ignorant as your posts suggest (though I do not dismiss the possibility).

I have experience, first hand with unions.... in both NY & MI. Case in point, client in Livonia, MI, union shop... builds lightweight building panels. Average worker (1989) are making roughly $85,000 in pay and benefits. Company's going under. Union (Teamsters) won't budge, matter of fact, want more.

Move the company to Augusta, GA, non-union... company flourishes. Company CEO has life threatened... yep, unions are awesome.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

You're place of employment is exempt from OSHA, EEOC rules, etc.?

Unions are unnecessary... hence their dwindling ranks. Good riddance to bad rubbish I say.

I am curious on this too H.D..

What do workers specifically need a union to protect them from in our current state? Maybe you know or see something I'm overlooking. I'm not asking to be a dick...I truly want to know.

Working conditions, benefits, punative actions, worker rights...same as always

Sounds like somebody needs a better job, not a union.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Punative actions?

Hillarious...

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

You're place of employment is exempt from OSHA, EEOC rules, etc.?

Unions are unnecessary... hence their dwindling ranks. Good riddance to bad rubbish I say.

I am curious on this too H.D..

What do workers specifically need a union to protect them from in our current state? Maybe you know or see something I'm overlooking. I'm not asking to be a dick...I truly want to know.

Working conditions, benefits, punative actions, worker rights...same as always

But we have laws to protect workers from bad conditions, uncalled for punative actions, other workers rights including wages/compensation.

I want something that a union is needed to protect us from that isn't already covered by the law. When unions arose there were no labor laws.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I am curious on this too H.D..

What do workers specifically need a union to protect them from in our current state? Maybe you know or see something I'm overlooking. I'm not asking to be a dick...I truly want to know.

Working conditions, benefits, punative actions, worker rights...same as always

But we have laws to protect workers from bad conditions, uncalled for punative actions, other workers rights including wages/compensation.

I want something that a union is needed to protect us from that isn't already covered by the law. When unions arose there were no labor laws.

Punative actions pretty much tells you where he's coming from.

 

[jillian]

I am curious on this too H.D..

What do workers specifically need a union to protect them from in our current state? Maybe you know or see something I'm overlooking. I'm not asking to be a dick...I truly want to know.

Working conditions, benefits, punative actions, worker rights...same as always

But we have laws to protect workers from bad conditions, uncalled for punative actions, other workers rights including wages/compensation.

I want something that a union is needed to protect us from that isn't already covered by the law. When unions arose there were no labor laws.

wages are only protected at the minimum wage subsistence level.

no benefits are protected.... except if you break the law as to an already existing benefit, say, under ERISA.

and collective bargaining only exists with unions.

and do you have any idea how difficult it is to sue for 'uncalled for punitive actions', as you put it and 'other workers rights?

you only get damages for retaliation and discrimination claims when you are fired if the ONLY reason you could have been fired was an illegal one.

Go prove it... using the employers records. and see how easy it is to a) get those records and b) win in court.

Ledbetter already showed you what happens when you are discriminated against because of your gender....


nada.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

When's the last time you met a lefty that wasn't screeching about punishing somebody or something for every ill real or imagined?

It's a way of life for these nut jobs.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Working conditions, benefits, punative actions, worker rights...same as always

But we have laws to protect workers from bad conditions, uncalled for punative actions, other workers rights including wages/compensation.

I want something that a union is needed to protect us from that isn't already covered by the law. When unions arose there were no labor laws.

wages are only protected at the minimum wage subsistence level.

no benefits are protected.

and collective bargaining only exists with unions.

and do you have any idea how difficult it is to sue for 'uncalled for punitive actions', as you put it and 'other workers rights?

you only get damages for retaliation and discrimination claims when you are fired if the ONLY reason you could have been fired was an illegal one.

Go prove it... using the employers records. and see how easy it is to a) get those records and b) win in court.

Ledbetter already showed you what happens when you are discriminated against because of your gender....


nada.

So? You want guarantees?

 

[jillian]

Working conditions, benefits, punative actions, worker rights...same as always

But we have laws to protect workers from bad conditions, uncalled for punative actions, other workers rights including wages/compensation.

I want something that a union is needed to protect us from that isn't already covered by the law. When unions arose there were no labor laws.

Punative actions pretty much tells you where he's coming from.

you think whistle blowers should be fired?

THAT is what he's talking about.

or if you sue your employer for discrimination or wage issues...

and they fire your butt.

I know this isn't your thing, but really... you look silly going after someone who DOES know what he's talking about.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Sounds like "I want to do the same thing for the rest of my working life, which BTW, should only be 20 years, at great pay, a 10% raise every year, never ending benefits, and then 100% retirement for the rest of my days"

Yeah... mkay.

 

[The Rabbi]

Wrong. The constitution set up the environment and culture of rights we enjoy. It did it's job. If we do away with it, those rights should simply continue on since it is a part of our culture now. That is the argument you make for getting rid of unions. They served their purpose, things are good now, so we don't need them anymore. Do away with them....just like the consitution......and see what happens.

No, that is not my argument.
My argument is that the Constitution plays the role of referee among different parties with competing interests. That is as true today as it was in 1800.
Unions play a role that has been easily superceded by different social and economic conditions. This is probably why union membership as a percentage of the workforce has dropped to all time lows recently.

It was the unions who brought about those social and economic conditions in the work place. Remove them and you will slip backwards over time. I'm conservative. I'm not a union member and never have been. But just like the constitution, I understand what it would be like if we didn't have unions. Are there problems? Sure. Do they overreach? Of course they do. If they didn't exist, would the corporations overreach like they did in the past? You damn bet you.

Why should conditions go back to what they were in the 1890s? There is no logical reason for it, given the reasons I've already cited.
Further, plenty of industries have sprung up that are not unionized and conditions in those industries are not what they were generally pre-union era.
As for corporations, they are not fat greedy entities looking to screw people, as some here would have you believe. Instead they compete for workers like everyone else. If they were to screw over workers they would find themselves without workers pretty quickly.

 

[jillian]

But we have laws to protect workers from bad conditions, uncalled for punative actions, other workers rights including wages/compensation.

I want something that a union is needed to protect us from that isn't already covered by the law. When unions arose there were no labor laws.

wages are only protected at the minimum wage subsistence level.

no benefits are protected.

and collective bargaining only exists with unions.

and do you have any idea how difficult it is to sue for 'uncalled for punitive actions', as you put it and 'other workers rights?

you only get damages for retaliation and discrimination claims when you are fired if the ONLY reason you could have been fired was an illegal one.

Go prove it... using the employers records. and see how easy it is to a) get those records and b) win in court.

Ledbetter already showed you what happens when you are discriminated against because of your gender....


nada.

So? You want guarantees?

you can make with the stupid laughter all you want.

but what *I* want is for employers not to pay slave wages to people so we compete with mexico for jobs.

what *I* want is for us not to turn into a third world country with no middle class, despite the best efforts of the rightwingnuts and 'randists'.

and i want our laws enforced.

maybe if you actually get a job, you'll understand.

 

[rightwinger]

Working conditions, benefits, punative actions, worker rights...same as always

But we have laws to protect workers from bad conditions, uncalled for punative actions, other workers rights including wages/compensation.

I want something that a union is needed to protect us from that isn't already covered by the law. When unions arose there were no labor laws.

wages are only protected at the minimum wage subsistence level.

no benefits are protected.... except if you break the law as to an already existing benefit, say, under ERISA.

and collective bargaining only exists with unions.

and do you have any idea how difficult it is to sue for 'uncalled for punitive actions', as you put it and 'other workers rights?

you only get damages for retaliation and discrimination claims when you are fired if the ONLY reason you could have been fired was an illegal one.

Go prove it... using the employers records. and see how easy it is to a) get those records and b) win in court.

Ledbetter already showed you what happens when you are discriminated against because of your gender....


nada.

Unions will no longer be needed when workers say they don't need them anymore...that is the way we do things in America

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

But we have laws to protect workers from bad conditions, uncalled for punative actions, other workers rights including wages/compensation.

I want something that a union is needed to protect us from that isn't already covered by the law. When unions arose there were no labor laws.

Punative actions pretty much tells you where he's coming from.

you think whistle blowers should be fired?

THAT is what he's talking about.

or if you sue your employer for discrimination or wage issues...

and they fire your butt.

I know this isn't your thing, but really... you look silly going after someone who DOES know what he's talking about.

I do know what I am talking about. Its called reality.... most people move on from jobs they don't like, not sit around and whine about the place. Believe me, no employer has a vested interest in miserable employees.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

wages are only protected at the minimum wage subsistence level.

no benefits are protected.

and collective bargaining only exists with unions.

and do you have any idea how difficult it is to sue for 'uncalled for punitive actions', as you put it and 'other workers rights?

you only get damages for retaliation and discrimination claims when you are fired if the ONLY reason you could have been fired was an illegal one.

Go prove it... using the employers records. and see how easy it is to a) get those records and b) win in court.

Ledbetter already showed you what happens when you are discriminated against because of your gender....


nada.

So? You want guarantees?

you can make with the stupid laughter all you want.

but what *I* want is for employers not to pay slave wages to people so we compete with mexico for jobs.

what *I* want is for us not to turn into a third world country with no middle class, despite the best efforts of the rightwingnuts and 'randists'.

and i want our laws enforced.

maybe if you actually get a job, you'll understand.

Then get a better job, or probably more to the point, a skill set beyond that of your average Mexican...

What crummy world do you live in where you have to join a club so as not to be constantly violated by employers?

I'm happily and gainfully self-employed... thanks!

 

[rightwinger]

No, that is not my argument.
My argument is that the Constitution plays the role of referee among different parties with competing interests. That is as true today as it was in 1800.
Unions play a role that has been easily superceded by different social and economic conditions. This is probably why union membership as a percentage of the workforce has dropped to all time lows recently.

It was the unions who brought about those social and economic conditions in the work place. Remove them and you will slip backwards over time. I'm conservative. I'm not a union member and never have been. But just like the constitution, I understand what it would be like if we didn't have unions. Are there problems? Sure. Do they overreach? Of course they do. If they didn't exist, would the corporations overreach like they did in the past? You damn bet you.

Why should conditions go back to what they were in the 1890s? There is no logical reason for it, given the reasons I've already cited.
Further, plenty of industries have sprung up that are not unionized and conditions in those industries are not what they were generally pre-union era.
As for corporations, they are not fat greedy entities looking to screw people, as some here would have you believe. Instead they compete for workers like everyone else. If they were to screw over workers they would find themselves without workers pretty quickly.

Yes, there are many non union industries and their conditions are often as good or better than union shops.

That is because of the threat of unionization. They offer benefits not out of the goodness of their heart, but because they do not want their employees to form a union.

 

[The Rabbi]

wages are only protected at the minimum wage subsistence level.

no benefits are protected.

and collective bargaining only exists with unions.

and do you have any idea how difficult it is to sue for 'uncalled for punitive actions', as you put it and 'other workers rights?

you only get damages for retaliation and discrimination claims when you are fired if the ONLY reason you could have been fired was an illegal one.

Go prove it... using the employers records. and see how easy it is to a) get those records and b) win in court.

Ledbetter already showed you what happens when you are discriminated against because of your gender....


nada.

So? You want guarantees?

you can make with the stupid laughter all you want.

but what *I* want is for employers not to pay slave wages to people so we compete with mexico for jobs.

what *I* want is for us not to turn into a third world country with no middle class, despite the best efforts of the rightwingnuts and 'randists'.

and i want our laws enforced.

maybe if you actually get a job, you'll understand.

Look who's talking. The poseur lawyeur.

Corporations will pay what they need to to attract qualified workers. If they cannot then they will outsource those jobs to Mexico and the opportunity for work here will be lost.
Third World countries have no middle class because they are governed by kleptocratic bureaucracies that enforce myriads of bizarre rules all in the name of "public interest" while actually enriching the status quo. IOW, exactly what so-called liberals want in this country.

Maybe if you actually had a responsible job for a company rather than cleaning floors in lawyers' offices you would understand this.