Unions: The New 'Dinosaurs'?

[The Rabbi]

[ I am just saying that as I feel pushed into a corner by talk radio style bully tactics and it makes me want to argue with you.

this is why you appear to be so stupid. You argue not because you have better more logical arguments, but becuase your weak psychology forces you too.

Keep it up you make all liberals look stupid with your stupid arguments!!

I dont have anything to add to Ed's comments but felt they were so good they should be posted again.

 

[Rshermr]

You dont really hold a job, do you?

I am so humbled. I did not know that you cared about my personal situation.
No, rabbi, I retired recently after working for 44 years.
Question is, rabbi, how do you manage to be around this post all day every day?? You get paid to post dogma?? Or do you just do it for free cause you are light on the grey matter?

You must not have done much or paid attention. Typically people who work understand that employers are chronically short of valuable employees and seek them out. This obviates the need for unions. So unions exist only to protect people who otherwise wouldn't be protected,i.e. the lazy shiftless and worthless.

Yea, Right. Why am I so surprised you would take that stance. A con tool like you? Who would have thought. That would be true if this were 1850 and the companies were small. But with monopoly power, it does not work that way in general. Yes, for specific jobs. No in general. So, if you believe in monopoly power for companies, you are hypocritical to not believe in offsetting monopoly power for workers.

Here, read this and see if it is ok by you. I suspect it is. But you may wonder how things got this way. Or maybe you just don't care.
Top 1% Got 93% of Income Growth as Rich-Poor Gap Widened - Bloomberg

 

[Toronado3800]

[ I am just saying that as I feel pushed into a corner by talk radio style bully tactics and it makes me want to argue with you.

this is why you appear to be so stupid. You argue not because you have better more logical arguments, but becuase your weak psychology forces you too.

Keep it up you make all liberals look stupid with your stupid arguments!!

I dont have anything to add to Ed's comments but felt they were so good they should be posted again.

So let me get this straight, you and Ed are so proud of your Al Gore style ability to make ppl just WANT to disagree with you, you reposted it?

Whatever you do don't start talking about model railroading or horticulture, you'll turn folks agains it them.

 

[Toronado3800]

Don't misunderstand. I am not saying union fellows don't deserve the credit the get for intimidation of picket line crossers. And I was soo rooting for the Feds to take down Tony Soprano in that last episode. I am no friend of organized crime.

I just like popping up the historical perspective on what monsters our nation guard and corporations have been AS WELL. There are TERRIBLE union guys too.

Except you miss the point that corporate intimidation of workers is 100 years old while union thuggery goes on today. There is no equivalence here.

BTW, what did I say that you actually disagreed with?

 

[Rshermr]

[ I am just saying that as I feel pushed into a corner by talk radio style bully tactics and it makes me want to argue with you.

this is why you appear to be so stupid. You argue not because you have better more logical arguments, but becuase your weak psychology forces you too.

Keep it up you make all liberals look stupid with your stupid arguments!!

I dont have anything to add to Ed's comments but felt they were so good they should be posted again.

What a pair. IQ of 110. Combined IQ.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

But with monopoly power, it does not work that way in general.

I had thought mono meant one??? Where is "one" when there are millions of companies competing with each other all over the world????

Does mono now mean millions???????

 

[HUGGY]

1. “Multinational corporations have a new ally in their battles with organized labor: unionized workers," reports Crain's Chicago Business. "Some workers are becoming so disillusioned by what their unions can, or rather can't, do for them that they want out."

a. A case in point is the Caterpillar Inc. plant in Joliet, Ill., where "dozens of machinists . . . crossed the picket line during a strike last summer and are planning unfair labor practices complaints" against the International Association of Machinists.

b. When an agreement was reached in mid-August, the contract provided less than the one before it…. management compared compensation to factory hands across Illinois and around the world and concluded that to be "market competitive," Caterpillar had to insist on the concessions.

2. The trouble for private-sector unions is that the global economy vastly increases the supply of labor, diminishing their bargaining power.

3. … an IAM official at the Joliet Caterpillar plant, "says he understood that workers need to provide for their families, which meant crossing the picket line," Crain's reports. "But he adds: 'We don't negotiate for individuals; we negotiate for the benefit of the group.' " The trouble is, you can't have a group without individuals.




4. Meanwhile the Puffington Host reports that "there was an employee walkout at a Walmart Supercenter in St. Cloud, Fla., on Wednesday morning." That is to say, anemployee, Vanessa Ferreira, walked off her job decorating cakes. "The other employees watched her walk out of the store, then went back to doing their jobs."

a. As Reuters reported, the OUR Walmart effort, spurred by the United Food and Commercial Workers, which is seeking to unionize the retail giant's employees, didn't amount to much: "OUR Walmart said it counted 1,000 protests in 46 U.S. states, including strikes in 100 cities--figures that Walmart said were 'grossly exaggerated.' " Whatever the number of strikes, Reuters reports, "there was no evidence they disrupted operations for the start of the crucial holiday shopping season."

5. The Atlantic's Jordan Weissmann blames consumers for low wages at Wal-Mart and other big retailers: "We are the ones who choose where to take our business. And for the most part, Americans have chosen cheap."

a. All workers are consumers, and most consumers are workers--a point on which Weissmann seemingly inadvertently stumbles …

b. Absent globalization, labor would command higher prices, but then so would everything else.” The Power of One - WSJ.com





From the article: “A union is superfluous at best unless it can deliver a better deal for most of its members than they could get on their own.”





Results of a recent Rasmussen poll found that 9% of nonunion workers were interested in joining a union. For public school grads, that means that 91% have no such interest. In fact, maybe that means that 9% are public school grads who didn’t learn to read on their own. (Just 9% of Non-Union Workers Want to Join Union - Rasmussen Reports™)


Rasmussen found that even workers in companies who were in danger of losing their jobs, it was still only 9%. What do the 91% know about union membership that the 9% don’t? One can only conjecture.


In the 1950s some 1/3 of all private-sector workers belonged to a union. Now only 7.6% of nongovernment workers belong to one. From 1997 to 2004, private sector employment grew from 66.1 to 103.6 million, but union membership declined from 14.3 to 8.2 million. (http://www.aeaweb.org/annual_mtg_papers/2006papers.html)


At the same time, unionization of government jobs is five times higher (Union Members Summary) .

Could it be that the concern of private companies for profits, and maximizing shareholder value, and workers choosing opportunity over job security explain the disparity?




Or, in more loaded terminology, choosing capitalism over socialism.

No. Nothing so "political". Nothing so politically philisophical. What has dug deep into the ranks of the unions has mostly been taking many of our manufacturing jobs offshore.

Unions were formed to fight for workers rights. They were not formed to recruit communists. That is a stupid assumption but not out of the rhelm of republican thinking.

Also things have changed with the coming of the internet. The need to organize for this or that is radically easier nowadays. One doesn't have to "pay dues" to form a coalition on the internet. I see this hit and miss form of protest evolving into a useful tool for workers. When eveyrone at a company strikes it does not matter if they are a union or not. All that is required is organization and action in unison. Facebook already makes companies stand up and take notice. It is the future.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

What has dug deep into the ranks of the unions has mostly been taking many of our manufacturing jobs offshore.

yes absolutely brain dead liberal unions have driven 30 million jobs off shore. Unions should be made illegal again!! Imagine if a very very stupid Republican policy had led to the loss of 30 million jobs??

Unions were formed to fight for workers rights.

of course you don't fight for rights by stealing from other people or raising their prices with your high wages. Most of the hunger in America has been caused by unions; this was especially true 100 years ago when so many were poor and hungry. Unions are pure evil!

They were not formed to recruit communists.

wrong wrong wrong!! Marx was all about class warfare. Unions created the Anti american idea that there must be a permanent loser worker class who can never get ahead. Thats where his army came from!! Workers of the world unite!!!!If people know the can get ahead they have no need for unions or the psychological destruction that comes from being told you are too stupid to get ahead and your fate is to put a bolt on a car for your entire career.

All that is required is organization and action in unison. Facebook already makes companies stand up and take notice. It is the future.

why not have the government put all of us in a union and make $100/ hour the basic wage in America??

As an illiterate liberal you will have no idea how to answer that question

 

[Desperado]

The sooner unions go extinct the better off mankind will be.

 

[HUGGY]

What has dug deep into the ranks of the unions has mostly been taking many of our manufacturing jobs offshore.

yes absolutely brain dead liberal unions have driven 30 million jobs off shore. Unions should be made illegal again!! Imagine if a very very stupid Republican policy had led to the loss of 30 million jobs??

Unions were formed to fight for workers rights.

of course you don't fight for rights by stealing from other people or raising their prices with your high wages. Most of the hunger in America has been caused by unions; this was especially true 100 years ago when so many were poor and hungry. Unions are pure evil!

They were not formed to recruit communists.

wrong wrong wrong!! Marx was all about class warfare. Unions created the Anti american idea that there must be a permanent loser worker class who can never get ahead. Thats where his army came from!! Workers of the world unite!!!!If people know the can get ahead they have no need for unions or the psychological destruction that comes from being told you are too stupid to get ahead and your fate is to put a bolt on a car for your entire career.

All that is required is organization and action in unison. Facebook already makes companies stand up and take notice. It is the future.

why not have the government put all of us in a union and make $100/ hour the basic wage in America??

As an illiterate liberal you will have no idea how to answer that question

I hope you are a fithy rich off shored company owner! I would hate to think someone with nothing but adoration of filthy rich wealth would prostrate himself like you do.

You are a good trick prostitute but I've seen the girls out here on Aurora North in Seattle do better!

 

[The Rabbi]

I am so humbled. I did not know that you cared about my personal situation.
No, rabbi, I retired recently after working for 44 years.
Question is, rabbi, how do you manage to be around this post all day every day?? You get paid to post dogma?? Or do you just do it for free cause you are light on the grey matter?

You must not have done much or paid attention. Typically people who work understand that employers are chronically short of valuable employees and seek them out. This obviates the need for unions. So unions exist only to protect people who otherwise wouldn't be protected,i.e. the lazy shiftless and worthless.

Yea, Right. Why am I so surprised you would take that stance. A con tool like you? Who would have thought. That would be true if this were 1850 and the companies were small. But with monopoly power, it does not work that way in general. Yes, for specific jobs. No in general. So, if you believe in monopoly power for companies, you are hypocritical to not believe in offsetting monopoly power for workers.

Here, read this and see if it is ok by you. I suspect it is. But you may wonder how things got this way. Or maybe you just don't care.
Top 1% Got 93% of Income Growth as Rich-Poor Gap Widened - Bloomberg

Please name the US companies that are monopolies.

 

[HUGGY]

You must not have done much or paid attention. Typically people who work understand that employers are chronically short of valuable employees and seek them out. This obviates the need for unions. So unions exist only to protect people who otherwise wouldn't be protected,i.e. the lazy shiftless and worthless.

Yea, Right. Why am I so surprised you would take that stance. A con tool like you? Who would have thought. That would be true if this were 1850 and the companies were small. But with monopoly power, it does not work that way in general. Yes, for specific jobs. No in general. So, if you believe in monopoly power for companies, you are hypocritical to not believe in offsetting monopoly power for workers.

Here, read this and see if it is ok by you. I suspect it is. But you may wonder how things got this way. Or maybe you just don't care.
Top 1% Got 93% of Income Growth as Rich-Poor Gap Widened - Bloomberg

Please name the US companies that are monopolies.

Montsano is doing a pretty good job monopolizing the agricultural sector.

 

[Toronado3800]

You must not have done much or paid attention. Typically people who work understand that employers are chronically short of valuable employees and seek them out. This obviates the need for unions. So unions exist only to protect people who otherwise wouldn't be protected,i.e. the lazy shiftless and worthless.

Yea, Right. Why am I so surprised you would take that stance. A con tool like you? Who would have thought. That would be true if this were 1850 and the companies were small. But with monopoly power, it does not work that way in general. Yes, for specific jobs. No in general. So, if you believe in monopoly power for companies, you are hypocritical to not believe in offsetting monopoly power for workers.

Here, read this and see if it is ok by you. I suspect it is. But you may wonder how things got this way. Or maybe you just don't care.
Top 1% Got 93% of Income Growth as Rich-Poor Gap Widened - Bloomberg

Please name the US companies that are monopolies.

There aren't many pure monopolies you are right. We more or less still have regulations against that type of thing.

I suppose in medium and small size communities a monopoly on good jobs can exist, when the xxx plant shuts down there goes the neighborhood type of a place.

 

[Toronado3800]

What has dug deep into the ranks of the unions has mostly been taking many of our manufacturing jobs offshore.

yes absolutely brain dead liberal unions have driven 30 million jobs off shore. Unions should be made illegal again!! Imagine if a very very stupid Republican policy had led to the loss of 30 million jobs??

Unions were formed to fight for workers rights.

of course you don't fight for rights by stealing from other people or raising their prices with your high wages. Most of the hunger in America has been caused by unions; this was especially true 100 years ago when so many were poor and hungry. Unions are pure evil!

They were not formed to recruit communists.

wrong wrong wrong!! Marx was all about class warfare. Unions created the Anti american idea that there must be a permanent loser worker class who can never get ahead. Thats where his army came from!! Workers of the world unite!!!!If people know the can get ahead they have no need for unions or the psychological destruction that comes from being told you are too stupid to get ahead and your fate is to put a bolt on a car for your entire career.

All that is required is organization and action in unison. Facebook already makes companies stand up and take notice. It is the future.

why not have the government put all of us in a union and make $100/ hour the basic wage in America??

As an illiterate liberal you will have no idea how to answer that question

Edward, don't be mean to others. It turns society off to anything you are saying.

 

[HUGGY]

What has dug deep into the ranks of the unions has mostly been taking many of our manufacturing jobs offshore.

yes absolutely brain dead liberal unions have driven 30 million jobs off shore. Unions should be made illegal again!! Imagine if a very very stupid Republican policy had led to the loss of 30 million jobs??



of course you don't fight for rights by stealing from other people or raising their prices with your high wages. Most of the hunger in America has been caused by unions; this was especially true 100 years ago when so many were poor and hungry. Unions are pure evil!




wrong wrong wrong!! Marx was all about class warfare. Unions created the Anti american idea that there must be a permanent loser worker class who can never get ahead. Thats where his army came from!! Workers of the world unite!!!!If people know the can get ahead they have no need for unions or the psychological destruction that comes from being told you are too stupid to get ahead and your fate is to put a bolt on a car for your entire career.

All that is required is organization and action in unison. Facebook already makes companies stand up and take notice. It is the future.

why not have the government put all of us in a union and make $100/ hour the basic wage in America??

As an illiterate liberal you will have no idea how to answer that question

Edward, don't be mean to others. It turns society off to anything you are saying.

That is his intention. The venom some spew towards unions smacks of paid trolls. They DO exist. Comments like "why don't we just make the minimum wage $100" show he has no desire to discuss...just dismiss.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yea, Right. Why am I so surprised you would take that stance. A con tool like you? Who would have thought. That would be true if this were 1850 and the companies were small. But with monopoly power, it does not work that way in general. Yes, for specific jobs. No in general. So, if you believe in monopoly power for companies, you are hypocritical to not believe in offsetting monopoly power for workers.

Here, read this and see if it is ok by you. I suspect it is. But you may wonder how things got this way. Or maybe you just don't care.
Top 1% Got 93% of Income Growth as Rich-Poor Gap Widened - Bloomberg

Please name the US companies that are monopolies.

There aren't many pure monopolies you are right. We more or less still have regulations against that type of thing.

I suppose in medium and small size communities a monopoly on good jobs can exist, when the xxx plant shuts down there goes the neighborhood type of a place.

And people can and do move for better jobs.
Another claim debunked.

 

[Toronado3800]

Please name the US companies that are monopolies.

There aren't many pure monopolies you are right. We more or less still have regulations against that type of thing.

I suppose in medium and small size communities a monopoly on good jobs can exist, when the xxx plant shuts down there goes the neighborhood type of a place.

And people can and do move for better jobs.
Another claim debunked.

Rabbi, would you settle down if I insert the word NEAR in there? I type alot from the phone so I am brief. Or you can think of it as a monopoly in that location. Folks sure can move. Personally it is a big deal for me to move my kids far enough from the extended family that grandma is barely in their lives. So IF I lived in a small town with one modern industry it would be a near monopoly. Lord forbid Israelis or Palestinians had only one employer in any town. Them folks are even more attached to their ancestral lands and would consider it a monopoly.

 

[The Rabbi]

Please define "near monopoly." Something either is a monopoly or it isn't.
You have about zero credibility at this point. I'd quit while I was behind.

 

[thanatos144]

Please define "near monopoly." Something either is a monopoly or it isn't.
You have about zero credibility at this point. I'd quit while I was behind.

(Oh but there is a monopoly in this country.....Education.

 

[thanatos144]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yzEm9ZnYb3g]Union Intimidation at Michigan Capitol - YouTube[/ame]

LOL This is unions ....Screaming that right to work has to go. You see that? only THEY get to work.....Tyrant assholes.