Universal Healthcare - will not work in the US

[Thinker101]

I disagree.

1. Essentially no one had health insurance until the 1960s. And I don't think anyone likes buying health care through insurance companies. Way too expensive, complex paperwork, stuck to your employer, policies only good in limited states, poor quality, limited options, etc.

2. Doctors working for the government get paid as much or more than those working for private health insurance companies.

3. Private health care is about the worst in the world, with the US rated at 29th. Over 100,000 US patients a years are murdered by medical malpractice. Some European companies have supplementary health care programs, but it is still single payer so there is group bargaining power.

4. It clearly is wrong to think private health insurance is a good way to do anything. It is terrible care and over twice the cost. It is the dumbest system in the whole world.

Prove #2

The easiest way to prove #2 is to remind you that VA and Medicare already hires doctors, and pays them competitive ways.
The current system does not pay doctors any more, but it pays more to the health care corporations that hire the doctors.
What public health care does is eliminate layers of corporations skimming off profits, not by paying doctors less.

Competitive doesn’t equal more. Many doctors go into plastic surgery and LASIK because it’s private pay and they can make way more.

MOST doctors do NOT go into plastic surgery or LASIK because they are not just in it for the money, but want to help people. Public health care pays very good incomes to doctors. Same as most get now after the corporations take all their cuts.

You don’t think most doctors want to make money? LOL. It costs approximately $400k to become a doctor so why would they want to limit their earnings? It doesn’t make logical sense.

Cmon, there's got to be a few of those illegals coming into this country that have a PHD and only want to help people.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Is Medical School Worth it Financially? - BestMedicalDegrees.com

Becoming a doctor is super expensive so they should be able to charge as much as they want to.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

 

[Polishprince]

MOST doctors do NOT go into plastic surgery or LASIK because they are not just in it for the money, but want to help people. Public health care pays very good incomes to doctors. Same as most get now after the corporations take all their cuts.

LASIK definitely helps people. Those who have had it have their vision improved immeasurably.

My aunt had a couple of face lifts in the 1960's and 1970's and she felt better with it. She died at age 82 in 1984

 

[francoHFW]

Every state has Medicaid 4 the indigent. Only a few scumbag red states don't have expanded medicaid with Obamacare for those who make less than about $1,400 a month.
.

Not every state is wealthy enough to encourage freeloading through expanded medicaid. Nothing to do with "scumbag".

What would you suggest Texas cut to do this?

WV, KY, AR, and LA are very poor states...they all expanded medicaid.

Now other states are poorer.

Great job !!!

You dont think folks should have healthcare?

Sure, if they work and pay for it, they should have whatever they are willing to work for.

If you are saying I should give up my money to pay for your health care, no.

Why should I work like a slave, for your benefit? When I went to the hospital, I paid for it. Because that's what a man does. You pay for what you want. That's normal.

And states don't get poorer really, federal government pays 90% of expanded medicaid.

 

[francoHFW]

There is no question it is cheaper. Our healthcare is the most expensive in the world.

It is the best in the world. I agree that our system is broken because of numerous administrator costs and such.

Our health care system is one of the worst in the world.
It not only costs over twice as much, but is rated 29th in the world, and it murders over 100,000 people a year in the US, due to medical malpractice.

Yep, wait til it's free, then you'll know how bad it can really get.

The whole rest of the world does free health care, and almost all of them are better than ours.

If they were better they would not come here when they are really sick. We have the best hospitals and universities in the world.

And our health care costs are twice as much as anywhere else with worse results...

 

[francoHFW]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

Have just seen this.


My daughter is pm-ing me from the emergency room (A&E in England) of an NHS hospital. And describing how ghastly it is.

US ERs are just as bad.

Not at all. I did not wait long when I broke my arm 2 1/2 years ago. While I was in the ER, the staff excused themselves to take care of an unresponsive OD victim who came in after me. They really revived him in a hurry, almost instantly he was up giving people a hard time.

The NHS is underfunded because of the Tories. Just like the GOP will try and under fund any health care here. two worst parties in the modern world easily

 

[francoHFW]

There is no question it is cheaper. Our healthcare is the most expensive in the world.

It is the best in the world. I agree that our system is broken because of numerous administrator costs and such.

Our health care system is one of the worst in the world.
It not only costs over twice as much, but is rated 29th in the world, and it murders over 100,000 people a year in the US, due to medical malpractice.

Yep, wait til it's free, then you'll know how bad it can really get.

The whole rest of the world does free health care, and almost all of them are better than ours.

If they were better they would not come here when they are really sick. We have the best hospitals and universities in the world.

They don't come here unless they are super rich and want private hospitals basically. Another GOP myth

 

[francoHFW]

Not every state is wealthy enough to encourage freeloading through expanded medicaid. Nothing to do with "scumbag".

What would you suggest Texas cut to do this?

WV, KY, AR, and LA are very poor states...they all expanded medicaid.

Now other states are poorer.

Great job !!!

You dont think folks should have healthcare?

Sure, if they work and pay for it, they should have whatever they are willing to work for.

If you are saying I should give up my money to pay for your health care, no.

Why should I work like a slave, for your benefit? When I went to the hospital, I paid for it. Because that's what a man does. You pay for what you want. That's normal.

The actual cost of health care is very low because most people do not need it unless there is an emergency.
So there is no reason to exclude the poor from the common risk pool for health care, even if they can't pay in.
They are such a small percentage, that is costs you essentially nothing to cover them as well.
No one pays for what you want in a normal society.
Do the firemen give you a quote before you decide you can afford for them to put out the fire in your home?

Actually our Healthcare system costs about twice as much as other modern countries who have better results.

 

[francoHFW]

US ERs are just as bad.

No. That is incorrect. Public hospital ERs, and VA ERs are just as bad, yes. But private hospital? No, not bad. Not at all.

I have been to ERs in the US and had to wait an hour and a half, dripping blood on the carpet, before they would stitch up a bad cut.
I have been to ERs in other countries and they are faster, more careful, and no paperwork at all.
I have never seen anyone get US ER service faster than an hour or so.

I was in Hyannis MA with my 10-yr old. Arm infection and cut. We were in and out in less than 30 minutes. It depends where you go and how severe your condition is. Many times people go to the ER when they don’t have to. My friend just had a heart scare. He was seen in literally seconds. You lie, Rigby.

Nope, you are the one lying.
The only way you can get through the paperwork that quickly is if you already are a patient with a particular private doctor or clinic. You did not just to into a strange hospital off the street and get that fast of care.
And what is the average income leval of Hyannis, MA?

We were on vacation. No idea. Google it. In terms of my friend he said he was having chest pains. We did the paper work afterwards. The paperwork for my daughter took less than five minutes. We have these things called computers now.

Also thanks to Obamacare in great part.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Not every state is wealthy enough to encourage freeloading through expanded medicaid. Nothing to do with "scumbag".

What would you suggest Texas cut to do this?

WV, KY, AR, and LA are very poor states...they all expanded medicaid.

Now other states are poorer.

Great job !!!

You dont think folks should have healthcare?

Sure, congress gets a Cadillac plan, everyone else gets Medicaid....happy? Dumbass.

Not every state is wealthy enough to encourage freeloading through expanded medicaid. Nothing to do with "scumbag".

What would you suggest Texas cut to do this?

WV, KY, AR, and LA are very poor states...they all expanded medicaid.

Now other states are poorer.

Great job !!!

You dont think folks should have healthcare?

Sure, congress gets a Cadillac plan, everyone else gets Medicaid....happy? Dumbass.

I am not calling for medicaid only. Try using your brain instead of your ass "thinker".

We'd be happy if you used just that much.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Every state has Medicaid 4 the indigent. Only a few scumbag red states don't have expanded medicaid with Obamacare for those who make less than about $1,400 a month.
.

Not every state is wealthy enough to encourage freeloading through expanded medicaid. Nothing to do with "scumbag".

What would you suggest Texas cut to do this?

WV, KY, AR, and LA are very poor states...they all expanded medicaid.

Now other states are poorer.

Great job !!!

You dont think folks should have healthcare?

How the fuck did you pull that out of your ass ?

Please share ?

 

[Mindful]

NHS Waiting List over 4 million Long.
12th August 2019 by Healys

In 2018, official figures showed the waiting list for an NHS operation was over 4.3 million patients long. To put this into context, if we were to print this off, assuming an average of 50 patients per page, and laid end to end, the list would be 23 kilometres long (or 14 miles) – enough to stretch from our office in Brighton to Worthing (via the A27).

NHS Waiting List Now Over 4 Million Patients Long - Healys LLP

Does anyone here know how the NHS is funded?

 

[Andylusion]

Not every state is wealthy enough to encourage freeloading through expanded medicaid. Nothing to do with "scumbag".

What would you suggest Texas cut to do this?

WV, KY, AR, and LA are very poor states...they all expanded medicaid.

Now other states are poorer.

Great job !!!

You dont think folks should have healthcare?

Sure, if they work and pay for it, they should have whatever they are willing to work for.

If you are saying I should give up my money to pay for your health care, no.

Why should I work like a slave, for your benefit? When I went to the hospital, I paid for it. Because that's what a man does. You pay for what you want. That's normal.

The actual cost of health care is very low because most people do not need it unless there is an emergency.
So there is no reason to exclude the poor from the common risk pool for health care, even if they can't pay in.
They are such a small percentage, that is costs you essentially nothing to cover them as well.
No one pays for what you want in a normal society.
Do the firemen give you a quote before you decide you can afford for them to put out the fire in your home?

But that is not what we have seen in states that have tried universal health care. What we saw in Massachusetts, is that when care was offered for free, people swarmed into the system. People even canceled their insurance, to go get 'free' care, resulting in the system being over burdened with people, and massively long wait times for the simplest of things. People were showing up with coughs, and sprained ankles. And of course if it's free, why not?

In fact, in France they had a massive problem with specifically older people, going to the doctor for no other reason than because they were lonely and wanted someone to talk to. And again... why not if it is free?

Here in Ohio, after the state caved into pressure from the Feds to expand the Medicaid program, the cost doubled from even the predicted increase. They estimated that costs would range near $200 Billion. The reality was, expanding medicaid increased $400 Billion.

Gov-care systems have never resulted in the small increases in cost that you claim. Instead the increases in cost have always been massive.

So there is no reason to exclude the poor from the common risk pool for health care, even if they can't pay in.

And the result of that, will be to drastically increase the cost on everyone. Take myself for example. The cost of Obama care has made getting insurance really expensive, thus... I have none.

When I get sick, I'll apply for insurance. Without pre-existing condition clauses, insurance companies can't refuse me. I'll get care, and then cancel my insurance.

So who is going to pay for that? Everyone who has insurance. That's why insurance premiums are drastically increasing.

No one pays for what you want in a normal society.
Do the firemen give you a quote before you decide you can afford for them to put out the fire in your home?

You have one exception, to a universal reality.

Fireman are an understandable exception.

To claim that the fire department, is an example that disproves all of capitalism is ridiculous. We accept that you need a fire department, because otherwise, a single fire could wipe out a city.

It is not the same, to suggest that all services we want in life, should be socialized. The relative costs on society to provide fire protection, or police protection, is insignificant to the costs of taking over a massive portion of the US economy.

Additionally, the government is extremely wasteful and inefficient at everything it does. Police departments are routinely wasteful. We understand that it will be difficult to privatize the police force.... so we accept this wasteful behavior. But it is not even remotely efficient.

Tesla police vehicle ran out of power during a car chase

Same is true of the fire department. Extremely expensive relative to what services it provides.

To put the health care system under that level of incompetence, is a very bad idea. All you have to do is go to the BMV, or the USPS, and see 7 cash stations, 3 workers, and only one person actually working, to see that having government in charge of health care would be a terrible idea.

And again, if you doubt that, go to your local government run clinic or hospital, or a VA clinic, and see what it's like. I have. It's terrible. Absolutely terrible.

 

[Andylusion]

NHS Waiting List over 4 million Long.
12th August 2019 by Healys

In 2018, official figures showed the waiting list for an NHS operation was over 4.3 million patients long. To put this into context, if we were to print this off, assuming an average of 50 patients per page, and laid end to end, the list would be 23 kilometres long (or 14 miles) – enough to stretch from our office in Brighton to Worthing (via the A27).

NHS Waiting List Now Over 4 Million Patients Long - Healys LLP

Does anyone here know how the NHS is funded?

I do.

I've looked this up before.

The National Insurance Tax, is 12% on income over $10,000. So the poorest of people, lose 12% of their income in just the National insurance tax.

That said, the National Insurance Contribution (NIC) (I love how they call it a contribution, to make you feel like they are not just steal 12% of your income).... that NIC does not cover the cost of NHS. Not even close.

The NIC barely covers 20% of NHS costs. A little less than 5% is covered by patients paying. One of the ironies of the UK NHS system, is that contrary to the equality minded people where supposedly the poor are not left behind, is that people with money can, and often, pay to get quality service in the NHS. For a fee, you can skip the year long wait lists that the poor are doomed to.

However, despite that 12% tax on the poor.... 80% of the cost of health care, comes from general tax revenue.

This is why someone who earns just $16K, you are subjected to a 20% tax. If you earn over $64K (a married couple earning just $32K each), you are subjected to a 40% tax.

When I said the lower and middle class lose almost half their income, that wasn't a joke.

This is how NHS is funded.

This is why when idiots like Bernie Sanders says that we can have Medicare for all, and only have an increase in taxes of 6%... . he is freaking insane. There is no possible way to make that math work.

Same thing for people who claim we'll just have the rich pay for it. People that say that are completely bonkers. No country with national health care has gotten the rich to pay for it. If they did, why are the poor in the UK paying 32% in taxes to cover health care?

 

[Mindful]

NHS is not funded by insurance schemes, and the choices contained therein.

Deductions are taken out of your salary, whether you like it or not. Even should you choose to take the private route, you will still be paying those contributions into the system.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

It is the best in the world. I agree that our system is broken because of numerous administrator costs and such.

Our health care system is one of the worst in the world.
It not only costs over twice as much, but is rated 29th in the world, and it murders over 100,000 people a year in the US, due to medical malpractice.

Yep, wait til it's free, then you'll know how bad it can really get.

The whole rest of the world does free health care, and almost all of them are better than ours.

If they were better they would not come here when they are really sick. We have the best hospitals and universities in the world.

And our health care costs are twice as much as anywhere else with worse results...

The results aren’t worse. The costs are high but taxes are lower. It’s a wash.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

No. That is incorrect. Public hospital ERs, and VA ERs are just as bad, yes. But private hospital? No, not bad. Not at all.

I have been to ERs in the US and had to wait an hour and a half, dripping blood on the carpet, before they would stitch up a bad cut.
I have been to ERs in other countries and they are faster, more careful, and no paperwork at all.
I have never seen anyone get US ER service faster than an hour or so.

I was in Hyannis MA with my 10-yr old. Arm infection and cut. We were in and out in less than 30 minutes. It depends where you go and how severe your condition is. Many times people go to the ER when they don’t have to. My friend just had a heart scare. He was seen in literally seconds. You lie, Rigby.

Nope, you are the one lying.
The only way you can get through the paperwork that quickly is if you already are a patient with a particular private doctor or clinic. You did not just to into a strange hospital off the street and get that fast of care.
And what is the average income leval of Hyannis, MA?

We were on vacation. No idea. Google it. In terms of my friend he said he was having chest pains. We did the paper work afterwards. The paperwork for my daughter took less than five minutes. We have these things called computers now.

Also thanks to Obamacare in great part.

Zero to do with the ACA. I have private insurance.

 

[JoeB131]

LMaO then be your own boss otherwise STFu and work for the employer. Duh.

Actually, I run my own business now.. The main thing that held me back was that health insurance was so ridiculously expensive for individuals....

You see, funny thing, as much as you worship at the altar of business, the best thing that could happen to business would be single payer.

Of course, the insurance companies couldn't cheat the policy holders out of their payments like they do now... so that would be horrible to you, but not decent people.

 

[JoeB131]

If for some reason you feel giving everyone healthcare, including free healthcare to illegals, will result is something better than Medicaid your the one thinking with your ass...idiot.

No, the idiocy is our current system.

The problem is our current system if rife with inefficiencies, from every doctor's office having to employ three people to figure out all the different insurance plans, to the uninsured showing up at emergency rooms for treatment at ten times the cost, to Nine Figure Salaries for insurance executives....

It's not an issue of enough money being spent... it's how it's being spent.

The UK spends half of what we do as a percentage of GDP on health care... and yes, the rich don't get private hospital rooms. But they live longer, have a lower infant mortality rate, and beat us on nearly every health metric.