Universal Healthcare - will not work in the US

[JoeB131]

NHS Waiting List over 4 million Long.
12th August 2019 by Healys

In 2018, official figures showed the waiting list for an NHS operation was over 4.3 million patients long. To put this into context, if we were to print this off, assuming an average of 50 patients per page, and laid end to end, the list would be 23 kilometres long (or 14 miles) – enough to stretch from our office in Brighton to Worthing (via the A27).

That's nice. Let's compare the NHS to the system we have.

First, let's look at health care spending as a percentage of GDP.

We're spending 18 compare to their less than 10%.

They and other single payer countries have a longer life expectency

A lower chance of dying from a circulatory disease

Lower infant mortality rates.

Higher Patient satisfaction rates.

Oh, yeah, and people don't go bankrupt for getting sick.... unlike 62% of US Bankruptcies are being related to illness, and 75% of them had insurance when the illness started.

 

[Votto]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

Our system sucks and repubs have nothing to offer. We will likely get universal healthcare eventually. Other countries have shown it can be much cheaper.

Indeed. Venezuela and North Korea really keep those costs down.

Amazing I know. How do they do it?

 

[TRFjr]

NHS Waiting List over 4 million Long.
12th August 2019 by Healys

In 2018, official figures showed the waiting list for an NHS operation was over 4.3 million patients long. To put this into context, if we were to print this off, assuming an average of 50 patients per page, and laid end to end, the list would be 23 kilometres long (or 14 miles) – enough to stretch from our office in Brighton to Worthing (via the A27).

That's nice. Let's compare the NHS to the system we have.

First, let's look at health care spending as a percentage of GDP.

View attachment 285520
We're spending 18 compare to their less than 10%.

They and other single payer countries have a longer life expectency

A lower chance of dying from a circulatory disease

Lower infant mortality rates.

Higher Patient satisfaction rates.

Oh, yeah, and people don't go bankrupt for getting sick.... unlike 62% of US Bankruptcies are being related to illness, and 75% of them had insurance when the illness started.

want to know the leading driver of those statistics ? car accidents many more Americans drive then any other countries population there for many more Americans get into deadly car accidents and the other leading cause is our very poor eating habits the wealth of our population allows us to eat way to much meat and junk food compared to other countries
so it has nothing to do with our quality of health care and more to do with our culture
now the best way to determine quality health care is to determine out come of the health care the US is a leader when it comes to survival rates of diseases such as cancer and many other health issues

 

[JoeB131]

want to know the leading driver of those statistics ? car accidents many more Americans drive then any other countries population there for many more Americans get into deadly car accidents and the other leading cause is our very poor eating

I'm going to cut you off right here. The British have just as bad of diets as we do, and they have just as many traffic accidents.

Now, I know that this is hard for you to grasp, but when you have 1/4 of your population with either NO insurance or inadequate insurance, you are less likely to see a doctor and less likely to catch something serious early enough to treat it.

THAT'S WHY we have higher infant mortality rates and lower life expectencies than ANY other country in the industrialized world, and even trail some third world countries.

 

[Mindful]

want to know the leading driver of those statistics ? car accidents many more Americans drive then any other countries population there for many more Americans get into deadly car accidents and the other leading cause is our very poor eating

I'm going to cut you off right here. The British have just as bad of diets as we do, and they have just as many traffic accidents.

Now, I know that this is hard for you to grasp, but when you have 1/4 of your population with either NO insurance or inadequate insurance, you are less likely to see a doctor and less likely to catch something serious early enough to treat it.

THAT'S WHY we have higher infant mortality rates and lower life expectencies than ANY other country in the industrialized world, and even trail some third world countries.

And the downside of your spreadsheet is:

People visit the doctor when there is nothing wrong with them..

 

[JoeB131]

And the downside of your spreadsheet is:

People visit the doctor when there is nothing wrong with them..

Nobody visits the doctor when nothing is wrong with them...

Nobody really likes going to the doctor... I know this is hard for you to grasp.

 

[Mindful]

And the downside of your spreadsheet is:

People visit the doctor when there is nothing wrong with them..

Nobody visits the doctor when nothing is wrong with them...

Nobody really likes going to the doctor... I know this is hard for you to grasp.

All I can say to that is: lol.


You haven't lived.

 

[TRFjr]

want to know the leading driver of those statistics ? car accidents many more Americans drive then any other countries population there for many more Americans get into deadly car accidents and the other leading cause is our very poor eating

I'm going to cut you off right here. The British have just as bad of diets as we do, and they have just as many traffic accidents.

Now, I know that this is hard for you to grasp, but when you have 1/4 of your population with either NO insurance or inadequate insurance, you are less likely to see a doctor and less likely to catch something serious early enough to treat it.

THAT'S WHY we have higher infant mortality rates and lower life expectencies than ANY other country in the industrialized world, and even trail some third world countries.

there are almost twice as many cars per thousand in the US as the are in the UK
there are 838 cars per thousand in the US there are only 471 in the UK The US is ranked forth in the word the UK is ranked 34th
List of countries by vehicles per capita - Wikipedia

what is a better car a Rolls Royce or the classic VW bug
according to your logic it would be the VW bug because it was owned by many more and more accessible

quality health care isnt measured by accessibility or price put by outcome

and lastly the leading cause of infant mortality in the US by far is Congenital Defects
which hasn't a dam thing to do with lack of health care prenatal or otherwise but genetics

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

LMaO then be your own boss otherwise STFu and work for the employer. Duh.

Actually, I run my own business now.. The main thing that held me back was that health insurance was so ridiculously expensive for individuals....

You see, funny thing, as much as you worship at the altar of business, the best thing that could happen to business would be single payer.

Of course, the insurance companies couldn't cheat the policy holders out of their payments like they do now... so that would be horrible to you, but not decent people.

Here is the thing. I agree that our insurance system is whacked and terrible. But I do not believe UH would be any better. Anything and everything run by bureaucrats sucks.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

Our system sucks and repubs have nothing to offer. We will likely get universal healthcare eventually. Other countries have shown it can be much cheaper.

Indeed. Venezuela and North Korea really keep those costs down.

Amazing I know. How do they do it?

Look at Russia. Costs are low too but the wealthy go to private and cash pay only hospitals.

 

[Thinker101]

If for some reason you feel giving everyone healthcare, including free healthcare to illegals, will result is something better than Medicaid your the one thinking with your ass...idiot.

No, the idiocy is our current system.

The problem is our current system if rife with inefficiencies, from every doctor's office having to employ three people to figure out all the different insurance plans, to the uninsured showing up at emergency rooms for treatment at ten times the cost, to Nine Figure Salaries for insurance executives....

It's not an issue of enough money being spent... it's how it's being spent.

The UK spends half of what we do as a percentage of GDP on health care... and yes, the rich don't get private hospital rooms. But they live longer, have a lower infant mortality rate, and beat us on nearly every health metric.

Yep, get the government involved and it'll take care of the money like a well oiled machine. You've got to be the stupidest person on earth to buy that BS.

 

[Rigby5]

I disagree.

1. Essentially no one had health insurance until the 1960s. And I don't think anyone likes buying health care through insurance companies. Way too expensive, complex paperwork, stuck to your employer, policies only good in limited states, poor quality, limited options, etc.

2. Doctors working for the government get paid as much or more than those working for private health insurance companies.

3. Private health care is about the worst in the world, with the US rated at 29th. Over 100,000 US patients a years are murdered by medical malpractice. Some European companies have supplementary health care programs, but it is still single payer so there is group bargaining power.

4. It clearly is wrong to think private health insurance is a good way to do anything. It is terrible care and over twice the cost. It is the dumbest system in the whole world.

Prove #2

The easiest way to prove #2 is to remind you that VA and Medicare already hires doctors, and pays them competitive ways.
The current system does not pay doctors any more, but it pays more to the health care corporations that hire the doctors.
What public health care does is eliminate layers of corporations skimming off profits, not by paying doctors less.

Competitive doesn’t equal more. Many doctors go into plastic surgery and LASIK because it’s private pay and they can make way more.

MOST doctors do NOT go into plastic surgery or LASIK because they are not just in it for the money, but want to help people. Public health care pays very good incomes to doctors. Same as most get now after the corporations take all their cuts.

Because they want to help people? Wow, someone has been watching way too much television.

Almost no one works for money.
Once you make over $100k/year, money really does not matter any more.
What people want then is recognition, respect, outlet for creativity, legacy, impact, gratitude, etc.
Money is fairly insignificant once you get past the stage where you don't have enough to be comfortable.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Prove #2

The easiest way to prove #2 is to remind you that VA and Medicare already hires doctors, and pays them competitive ways.
The current system does not pay doctors any more, but it pays more to the health care corporations that hire the doctors.
What public health care does is eliminate layers of corporations skimming off profits, not by paying doctors less.

Competitive doesn’t equal more. Many doctors go into plastic surgery and LASIK because it’s private pay and they can make way more.

MOST doctors do NOT go into plastic surgery or LASIK because they are not just in it for the money, but want to help people. Public health care pays very good incomes to doctors. Same as most get now after the corporations take all their cuts.

Because they want to help people? Wow, someone has been watching way too much television.

Almost no one works for money.
Once you make over $100k/year, money really does not matter any more.
What people want then is recognition, respect, outlet for creativity, legacy, impact, gratitude, etc.
Money is fairly insignificant once you get past the stage where you don't have enough to be comfortable.

You're kidding, right? I make 3x and that is still not enough for daily living expenses and tuition costs for my kids. My wife is going back to work next year so we can afford college. Living in Boston is PRICEY!!!!!!!!!!!!! $100k is NOTHING.

 

[Polishprince]

Prove #2

The easiest way to prove #2 is to remind you that VA and Medicare already hires doctors, and pays them competitive ways.
The current system does not pay doctors any more, but it pays more to the health care corporations that hire the doctors.
What public health care does is eliminate layers of corporations skimming off profits, not by paying doctors less.

Competitive doesn’t equal more. Many doctors go into plastic surgery and LASIK because it’s private pay and they can make way more.

MOST doctors do NOT go into plastic surgery or LASIK because they are not just in it for the money, but want to help people. Public health care pays very good incomes to doctors. Same as most get now after the corporations take all their cuts.

Because they want to help people? Wow, someone has been watching way too much television.

Almost no one works for money.
Once you make over $100k/year, money really does not matter any more.
What people want then is recognition, respect, outlet for creativity, legacy, impact, gratitude, etc.
Money is fairly insignificant once you get past the stage where you don't have enough to be comfortable.

That's really not true. If you live in a decent area, own decent vehicles, have tuition and orthodontist bills to pay for the kids, 100k really isn't that terribly much.

 

[Rigby5]

I disagree.

1. Essentially no one had health insurance until the 1960s. And I don't think anyone likes buying health care through insurance companies. Way too expensive, complex paperwork, stuck to your employer, policies only good in limited states, poor quality, limited options, etc.

2. Doctors working for the government get paid as much or more than those working for private health insurance companies.

3. Private health care is about the worst in the world, with the US rated at 29th. Over 100,000 US patients a years are murdered by medical malpractice. Some European companies have supplementary health care programs, but it is still single payer so there is group bargaining power.

4. It clearly is wrong to think private health insurance is a good way to do anything. It is terrible care and over twice the cost. It is the dumbest system in the whole world.

Prove #2

The easiest way to prove #2 is to remind you that VA and Medicare already hires doctors, and pays them competitive ways.
The current system does not pay doctors any more, but it pays more to the health care corporations that hire the doctors.
What public health care does is eliminate layers of corporations skimming off profits, not by paying doctors less.

Competitive doesn’t equal more. Many doctors go into plastic surgery and LASIK because it’s private pay and they can make way more.

MOST doctors do NOT go into plastic surgery or LASIK because they are not just in it for the money, but want to help people. Public health care pays very good incomes to doctors. Same as most get now after the corporations take all their cuts.

You don’t think most doctors want to make money? LOL. It costs approximately $400k to become a doctor so why would they want to limit their earnings? It doesn’t make logical sense.

First of all, it should not cost anything to become a doctor in a sane society, but it does not cost $400k.
I know a lot of people who became doctors for free by being willing to work X number of years at locations determined by the government. Such as Puerto Rico, Indian reservations, territories, etc. There was a show about that called, "Northern Exposure".

Second is that after making $100k/year, money means almost nothing.
Sure you can find things to spend it on if you work at it, but it is hardly necessary.
It is not a motivating factor like something real, like gratitude, respect, etc.

Third is that no one ever suggested doctor's income would be limited or reduced at all by public health care.
What the doctor gets paid is less than 10% of what you currently are paying. It is not a significant factor.
You can reduce the cost of health care by over 60%, without any change in what the actual income to the doctors are.

 

[Rigby5]

US ERs are just as bad.

No. That is incorrect. Public hospital ERs, and VA ERs are just as bad, yes. But private hospital? No, not bad. Not at all.

I have been to ERs in the US and had to wait an hour and a half, dripping blood on the carpet, before they would stitch up a bad cut.
I have been to ERs in other countries and they are faster, more careful, and no paperwork at all.
I have never seen anyone get US ER service faster than an hour or so.

I was in Hyannis MA with my 10-yr old. Arm infection and cut. We were in and out in less than 30 minutes. It depends where you go and how severe your condition is. Many times people go to the ER when they don’t have to. My friend just had a heart scare. He was seen in literally seconds. You lie, Rigby.

Nope, you are the one lying.
The only way you can get through the paperwork that quickly is if you already are a patient with a particular private doctor or clinic. You did not just to into a strange hospital off the street and get that fast of care.
And what is the average income leval of Hyannis, MA?

We were on vacation. No idea. Google it. In terms of my friend he said he was having chest pains. We did the paper work afterwards. The paperwork for my daughter took less than five minutes. We have these things called computers now.

You were treated differently than most cases.
That was probably due to you being on an expensive vacation, in an expensive area, that led them to believe you were wealthy.
Try wearing old clothes, go to a poor area, and see how you are treated.
The paperwork is mostly financial, like a credit check.
So they usually do NOT allow any procedure before the paperwork is all done.
And computers do NOT speed up the paperwork, but increase the time it takes for all the information to be verbally communicated and then manually typed into the complex, generic, computerized forms.

 

[Rigby5]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

Our system sucks and repubs have nothing to offer. We will likely get universal healthcare eventually. Other countries have shown it can be much cheaper.

Indeed. Venezuela and North Korea really keep those costs down.

Amazing I know. How do they do it?

Look at Russia. Costs are low too but the wealthy go to private and cash pay only hospitals.

And how is that relevant?
Clearly cash pay only hospitals still cost far less than we pay in the US because we add the overhead of prepaying insurance premiums that we will never need.
Already in my life, I have paid in over half a million dollars in health insurance, and not gotten a single cent out of it.
My deductible has always been higher than the cost of any stitches or shots I have ever needed.

 

[sartre play]

AM willing to compromise, The richest nation should not have its people putting off needed health care or prescriptions because of the expense.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Prove #2

The easiest way to prove #2 is to remind you that VA and Medicare already hires doctors, and pays them competitive ways.
The current system does not pay doctors any more, but it pays more to the health care corporations that hire the doctors.
What public health care does is eliminate layers of corporations skimming off profits, not by paying doctors less.

Competitive doesn’t equal more. Many doctors go into plastic surgery and LASIK because it’s private pay and they can make way more.

MOST doctors do NOT go into plastic surgery or LASIK because they are not just in it for the money, but want to help people. Public health care pays very good incomes to doctors. Same as most get now after the corporations take all their cuts.

You don’t think most doctors want to make money? LOL. It costs approximately $400k to become a doctor so why would they want to limit their earnings? It doesn’t make logical sense.

First of all, it should not cost anything to become a doctor in a sane society, but it does not cost $400k.
I know a lot of people who became doctors for free by being willing to work X number of years at locations determined by the government. Such as Puerto Rico, Indian reservations, territories, etc. There was a show about that called, "Northern Exposure".

Second is that after making $100k/year, money means almost nothing.
Sure you can find things to spend it on if you work at it, but it is hardly necessary.
It is not a motivating factor like something real, like gratitude, respect, etc.

Third is that no one ever suggested doctor's income would be limited or reduced at all by public health care.
What the doctor gets paid is less than 10% of what you currently are paying. It is not a significant factor.
You can reduce the cost of health care by over 60%, without any change in what the actual income to the doctors are.

You sir, are insane. Honestly.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

No. That is incorrect. Public hospital ERs, and VA ERs are just as bad, yes. But private hospital? No, not bad. Not at all.

I have been to ERs in the US and had to wait an hour and a half, dripping blood on the carpet, before they would stitch up a bad cut.
I have been to ERs in other countries and they are faster, more careful, and no paperwork at all.
I have never seen anyone get US ER service faster than an hour or so.

I was in Hyannis MA with my 10-yr old. Arm infection and cut. We were in and out in less than 30 minutes. It depends where you go and how severe your condition is. Many times people go to the ER when they don’t have to. My friend just had a heart scare. He was seen in literally seconds. You lie, Rigby.

Nope, you are the one lying.
The only way you can get through the paperwork that quickly is if you already are a patient with a particular private doctor or clinic. You did not just to into a strange hospital off the street and get that fast of care.
And what is the average income leval of Hyannis, MA?

We were on vacation. No idea. Google it. In terms of my friend he said he was having chest pains. We did the paper work afterwards. The paperwork for my daughter took less than five minutes. We have these things called computers now.

You were treated differently than most cases.
That was probably due to you being on an expensive vacation, in an expensive area, that led them to believe you were wealthy.
Try wearing old clothes, go to a poor area, and see how you are treated.
The paperwork is mostly financial, like a credit check.
So they usually do NOT allow any procedure before the paperwork is all done.
And computers do NOT speed up the paperwork, but increase the time it takes for all the information to be verbally communicated and then manually typed into the complex, generic, computerized forms.

Cape Cod is not all that expensive. LOL.