Unqualfied white man admitted into Harvard over more qualfied blacks

[MizMolly]

I am not playing the race card. I am playing what is called historically documented fact. For 189 years minimum. whites wee given preferences relative to constitutional rights, and all other opportunities by written law. So then whites did not just make it because they earned anything. They were given a whole lot of help from the government. That is a fact, no cards have been played but the fake ignorant of history white boy card.

Intellectual laziness is you ignoring this history.

Great post...I just wanted to add to the list of FREE STUFF whites had access to that blacks never had...READY...here is the big one:

FREE LAND AND FREE FRESH WATER.

past tense

No it isn't. A significant nexus between present day wealth and free land still exists. That's just plain common sense.

I nor anyone I know has free land or water today.

What happened to all that prime land that was given to white people for free?
The majority of them passed it on to their descendants as well as the mineral rights, water rights any other resources on that land. Some sold some of it to make way for railroads etc and made fortunes that way. But Blacks weren't included because most were slaves. White men were privileged, almost exclusively, to put stakes in the ground and say this land is MINE. After more than 100 years, that free land is still contributing to wealth in white communities around the nation. Newly freed Blacks had limited access to obtaining free land due to rampant discrimination... Now do you understand?
Homestead Acts - Wikipedia
"The first of the acts, the Homestead Act of 1862, opened up millions of acres. Any adult who had never taken up arms against the U.S. government could apply. Women and immigrants who had applied for citizenship were eligible. The 1866 Act explicitly included black Americans and encouraged them to participate, but rampant discrimination slowed black gains."

And what does this have to do with whites today, the ones who had NOTHING handed down to them?

 

[Oldstyle]

You want to know my problem with Affirmative Action? It undermines the accomplishments of minorities that do succeed.

No it doesn't. The very fact that affirmative action was necessary in the first place showed that the average white person never cared about blacks at all. So who cares if some idiot thinks AA undermines black success when they didn't care that the LACK of AA undermined Black success?

Is it really "success" when people whisper behind your back that you're only where you are because you were placed there ahead of people who rightfully deserved the position? Succeeding without things like AA might be far harder...but when you did succeed...nobody could claim that your success wasn't earned.

So you like it when black people succeed despite the rampant racism that they have to deal with when looking for a job?

Yes, I can imagine they feel a great sense of accomplishment when they succeed despite all that.

And does it bother you that you got your job because your daddy owns or runs the business? I never hear white complain because they got a job not because of what they know but who they know.

Ask Donald Trump if he is successful even though we whisper behind his back that the only reason he's rich is because he was born rich. Same with GW Bush. Do they care that we whisper?

My "daddy" was a firefighter with eight children. I got into the restaurant business as a teenager...something that he knew nothing about nor helped me get my first job. I started out as a prep cook in the kitchen and worked my way up to line cook in that restaurant. I put myself through college working five nights a week as a bartender. For some thirty five years I ran some of the larger bars and clubs in the country...once again in a field that my family had ZERO to do with! Would I have liked to have had a rich father who paid my way through school and set me up in a business? Sure...that would have been much easier. Did I whine about my lot in life and demand that someone "owed" me a living wage and a free college education? That never crossed my mind to be honest.

As for Donald Trump's success? He took a relatively modest family fortune and turned it into a business empire and he did it by working hard his entire adult life. Donald Trump's "daddy" didn't make him a billionaire. Donald Trump made himself a billionaire.

 

[Oldstyle]

Is it really "success" when people whisper behind your back that you're only where you are because you were placed there ahead of people who rightfully deserved the position?

To be blunt, the crux of your complaint turns on the notion that a higher test score insures success or better performance than a lower one. If that's the case then the universities and colleges ought to be filled to capa...city with Asians and Nigerians. They also ought to have all the good high paying jobs. Why isn't anyone whispering about that? Well, actually some Asians did more than whisper about it back in 2015:
The Uncomfortable Truth About Affirmative Action and Asian-Americans
a 2015 complaint against Harvard filed with the Education and Justice Departments by sixty-four Asian-American groups, making the same claim as the current court case: that Harvard intentionally discriminates against Asians in admissions, giving whites an advantage. (The complaint had previously been dismissed in light of the already-pending lawsuit.) The combination of the lawsuit and the potential federal civil-rights inquiry signals that the treatment of Asians will frame the next phase of the legal debate over race-conscious admissions programs.

Succeeding without things like AA might be far harder...but when you did succeed...nobody could claim that your success wasn't earned.

Meanwhile, amidst a storm of " whispering" and snide remarks about black success being tainted by AA...thousands of high scoring Asians and Africans are saying the same thing about YOU.

Actually, I've never claimed that high test scores indicate future success. It only indicates the ability to take and pass tests. I know a large number of people who don't "test" well yet are very successful in what they do. Success has more to do with drive and ambition than it does with book smarts.

What I have an issue with is setting standards for one group based on skin pigmentation that doesn't apply to other groups. When you do so it's simply common sense that the group that has to be "graded on the curve" isn't as deserving of their position as those who don't. Since I don't view blacks as intellectually inferior to whites or Asians I find it insulting to them that people like you have decided that they need help to succeed.

 

[sealybobo]

You want to know my problem with Affirmative Action? It undermines the accomplishments of minorities that do succeed.

No it doesn't. The very fact that affirmative action was necessary in the first place showed that the average white person never cared about blacks at all. So who cares if some idiot thinks AA undermines black success when they didn't care that the LACK of AA undermined Black success?

Is it really "success" when people whisper behind your back that you're only where you are because you were placed there ahead of people who rightfully deserved the position? Succeeding without things like AA might be far harder...but when you did succeed...nobody could claim that your success wasn't earned.

So you like it when black people succeed despite the rampant racism that they have to deal with when looking for a job?

Yes, I can imagine they feel a great sense of accomplishment when they succeed despite all that.

And does it bother you that you got your job because your daddy owns or runs the business? I never hear white complain because they got a job not because of what they know but who they know.

Ask Donald Trump if he is successful even though we whisper behind his back that the only reason he's rich is because he was born rich. Same with GW Bush. Do they care that we whisper?

My "daddy" was a firefighter with eight children. I got into the restaurant business as a teenager...something that he knew nothing about nor helped me get my first job. I started out as a prep cook in the kitchen and worked my way up to line cook in that restaurant. I put myself through college working five nights a week as a bartender. For some thirty five years I ran some of the larger bars and clubs in the country...once again in a field that my family had ZERO to do with! Would I have liked to have had a rich father who paid my way through school and set me up in a business? Sure...that would have been much easier. Did I whine about my lot in life and demand that someone "owed" me a living wage and a free college education? That never crossed my mind to be honest.

As for Donald Trump's success? He took a relatively modest family fortune and turned it into a business empire and he did it by working hard his entire adult life. Donald Trump's "daddy" didn't make him a billionaire. Donald Trump made himself a billionaire.

Well I predict the deregulations that are coming for guys like Trump will widen the gap between the rich and poor.

I have two privileged nephew's. Should they apologize my brother gives them every advantage he can? No. So I won't begrudge trump

 

[JQPublic1]

it's simply common sense that the group that has to be "graded on the curve" isn't as deserving of their position as those who don't.

Then where do you stand on the lawsuit brought by 64 Asian groups claiming discrimination in admissions to Harvard because they have to score140 points more than Whites to get in?

Since I don't view blacks as intellectually inferior to whites or Asians I find it insulting to them that people like you have decided that they need help to succeed.

I have to break it to you since you apparently dont know...Black applicants don't give a damn what you think. I find it insulting that whites like you didn't work harder to remove the obstacles that caused AA TO be necessary in the first place. And with most states. rejecting AA a while back...why are you still clinging to the notion that it is making an impact on society as a whole at all?

And I don't believe for a moment you don't believe blacks are cognitively inferior to Whites and Asians. You haven't shown where your sentiments originated. All I've seen you do is complain about AA rather then addressing the reasons it came to be.

 

[JQPublic1]

189 years of white affirmative action? What are you talking about?

You label me a "racist" because I point out that social programs instituted by liberals to help blacks may have in fact harmed them? Playing the race card as a knee jerk reaction to criticism of your beliefs is intellectually lazy, IM2. That's what hasn't changed here!

I am not playing the race card. I am playing what is called historically documented fact. For 189 years minimum. whites wee given preferences relative to constitutional rights, and all other opportunities by written law. So then whites did not just make it because they earned anything. They were given a whole lot of help from the government. That is a fact, no cards have been played but the fake ignorant of history white boy card.

Intellectual laziness is you ignoring this history.

Great post...I just wanted to add to the list of FREE STUFF whites had access to that blacks never had...READY...here is the big one:

FREE LAND AND FREE FRESH WATER.

past tense

No it isn't. A significant nexus between present day wealth and free land still exists. That's just plain common sense.

I nor anyone I know has free land or water today.

You are looking in the wrong places.

 

[JQPublic1]

Great post...I just wanted to add to the list of FREE STUFF whites had access to that blacks never had...READY...here is the big one:

FREE LAND AND FREE FRESH WATER.

past tense

No it isn't. A significant nexus between present day wealth and free land still exists. That's just plain common sense.

I nor anyone I know has free land or water today.

What happened to all that prime land that was given to white people for free?
The majority of them passed it on to their descendants as well as the mineral rights, water rights any other resources on that land. Some sold some of it to make way for railroads etc and made fortunes that way. But Blacks weren't included because most were slaves. White men were privileged, almost exclusively, to put stakes in the ground and say this land is MINE. After more than 100 years, that free land is still contributing to wealth in white communities around the nation. Newly freed Blacks had limited access to obtaining free land due to rampant discrimination... Now do you understand?
Homestead Acts - Wikipedia
"The first of the acts, the Homestead Act of 1862, opened up millions of acres. Any adult who had never taken up arms against the U.S. government could apply. Women and immigrants who had applied for citizenship were eligible. The 1866 Act explicitly included black Americans and encouraged them to participate, but rampant discrimination slowed black gains."

And what does this have to do with whites today, the ones who had NOTHING handed down to them?

Everything! Just as all Blacks are judged by whites on the whole for the evils of a few, whites are judged. By Blacks the same way.

 

[Oldstyle]

You want to know my problem with Affirmative Action? It undermines the accomplishments of minorities that do succeed.

No it doesn't. The very fact that affirmative action was necessary in the first place showed that the average white person never cared about blacks at all. So who cares if some idiot thinks AA undermines black success when they didn't care that the LACK of AA undermined Black success?

Is it really "success" when people whisper behind your back that you're only where you are because you were placed there ahead of people who rightfully deserved the position? Succeeding without things like AA might be far harder...but when you did succeed...nobody could claim that your success wasn't earned.

So you like it when black people succeed despite the rampant racism that they have to deal with when looking for a job?

Yes, I can imagine they feel a great sense of accomplishment when they succeed despite all that.

And does it bother you that you got your job because your daddy owns or runs the business? I never hear white complain because they got a job not because of what they know but who they know.

Ask Donald Trump if he is successful even though we whisper behind his back that the only reason he's rich is because he was born rich. Same with GW Bush. Do they care that we whisper?

My "daddy" was a firefighter with eight children. I got into the restaurant business as a teenager...something that he knew nothing about nor helped me get my first job. I started out as a prep cook in the kitchen and worked my way up to line cook in that restaurant. I put myself through college working five nights a week as a bartender. For some thirty five years I ran some of the larger bars and clubs in the country...once again in a field that my family had ZERO to do with! Would I have liked to have had a rich father who paid my way through school and set me up in a business? Sure...that would have been much easier. Did I whine about my lot in life and demand that someone "owed" me a living wage and a free college education? That never crossed my mind to be honest.

As for Donald Trump's success? He took a relatively modest family fortune and turned it into a business empire and he did it by working hard his entire adult life. Donald Trump's "daddy" didn't make him a billionaire. Donald Trump made himself a billionaire.

Well I predict the deregulations that are coming for guys like Trump will widen the gap between the rich and poor.

I have two privileged nephew's. Should they apologize my brother gives them every advantage he can? No. So I won't begrudge trump

Since the gap between the rich and the poor increased more under Barack Obama than any other President...it's hard to envision anything that Trump could possibly do to widen it more than it's been widened! Trump actually grasps what makes business men invest money and create jobs. It's an anticipation of profit...something that Barry could never quite figure out.

 

[Oldstyle]

it's simply common sense that the group that has to be "graded on the curve" isn't as deserving of their position as those who don't.

Then where do you stand on the lawsuit brought by 64 Asian groups claiming discrimination in admissions to Harvard because they have to score140 points more than Whites to get in?

Since I don't view blacks as intellectually inferior to whites or Asians I find it insulting to them that people like you have decided that they need help to succeed.

I have to break it to you since you apparently dont know...Black applicants don't give a damn what you think. I find it insulting that whites like you didn't work harder to remove the obstacles that caused AA TO be necessary in the first place. And with most states. rejecting AA a while back...why are you still clinging to the notion that it is making an impact on society as a whole at all?

And I don't believe for a moment you don't believe blacks are cognitively inferior to Whites and Asians. You haven't shown where your sentiments originated. All I've seen you do is complain about AA rather then addressing the reasons it came to be.

How do I stand? I don't believe in quotas. If you want to go to Harvard be the better candidate.

Why would I believe that blacks are cognitively inferior to whites and Asians? Science doesn't back up that racist notion. As to where my sentiments on that originated? I grew up in a liberal college town in Massachusetts. Most of my minority childhood friends were the sons and daughters of college professors or administrators. I actually thought blacks were really smart because most of the ones I knew were very good in school. They weren't given preferential treatment for grades because they didn't NEED that kind of treatment! If you'd tried to explain to me that they DID need special treatment back then I would have thought you were out of your mind!

 

[Oldstyle]

it's simply common sense that the group that has to be "graded on the curve" isn't as deserving of their position as those who don't.

Then where do you stand on the lawsuit brought by 64 Asian groups claiming discrimination in admissions to Harvard because they have to score140 points more than Whites to get in?

Since I don't view blacks as intellectually inferior to whites or Asians I find it insulting to them that people like you have decided that they need help to succeed.

I have to break it to you since you apparently dont know...Black applicants don't give a damn what you think. I find it insulting that whites like you didn't work harder to remove the obstacles that caused AA TO be necessary in the first place. And with most states. rejecting AA a while back...why are you still clinging to the notion that it is making an impact on society as a whole at all?

And I don't believe for a moment you don't believe blacks are cognitively inferior to Whites and Asians. You haven't shown where your sentiments originated. All I've seen you do is complain about AA rather then addressing the reasons it came to be.

As for your complaint that "whites like you" didn't work harder to remove obstacles to blacks? It's an interesting narrative. It might even hold water if one of my ancestors hadn't given an arm leading black troops into battle in the Civil War...or if my grandfather wasn't the first Fire Chief in town history to hire a black man as a firefighter. I know that in "Lib Land" all conservatives are assumed to be racist, misogynist, knuckle draggers, JQ but I'm afraid I don't match your stereotypes. I'm not racist. I'm not sexist. I don't have a problem with same sex marriage. I'm in favor of sensible gun control laws. I'm even pro choice.

 

[ninja007]

As Trump takes aim at affirmative action, let’s remember how Jared Kushner got into Harvard.

In 1998, according to sources familiar with the gift, the New York University alumnus [Charles Kushner] pledged $2.5 million to Harvard, to be paid in annual installments of $250,000. ... At the time of the pledge, Kushner’s older son, Jared, was starting the college admissions process at the Frisch School, a Jewish high school in Paramus, New Jersey. A senior in 1998-99, Jared was not in the school’s highest academic track in all courses, and his test scores were below Ivy League standards. Frisch officials were surprised when he applied to Harvard — and dismayed when he was admitted.

“There was no way anybody in the administrative office of the school thought he would on the merits get into Harvard,” a former school official told me. “His GPA did not warrant it, his SAT scores did not warrant it. We thought for sure, there was no way this was going to happen. Then, lo and behold, Jared was accepted. It was a little bit disappointing because there were at the time other kids we thought should really get in on the merits, and they did not” ...

... Margot Krebs, who was director of Frisch’s college preparatory program at the time, said, “Jared was certainly not anywhere near the top of his class. He had some very strong personal qualities. He’s a very charming young man with a great deal of poise, the sort of kid you would look at him and say, ‘This is a future politician.’ It was an unusual choice for Harvard to make.”

As Trump takes aim at affirmative action, let’s remember how Jared Kushner got into Harvard

Kushner is not the only example of someone white getting into a college they were not qualified to enter.

“His GPA did not warrant it, his SAT scores did not warrant it.

That's awful!!
How do his SATs and GPA compare to the typical black student who is accepted?

Does it matter? He's a Jew. Work harder, blacks. Find us someone who's really white. Everyone knows Jews get special treatment by the US government.

It doesn't get much whiter than this .

We blacks work hard enough. And we blacks know it's been whites who get the special treatment from the government.

i think you meant blacks get special treatment- its called welfare. generational welfare your big gubmint checks replace daddy.

 

[JQPublic1]

How do I stand? I don't believe in quotas. If you want to go to Harvard be the better candidate.

What the heck does that statemement have to do with this?
"where do you stand on the lawsuit brought by 64 Asian groups claiming discrimination in admissions to Harvard because they have to score140 points more than Whites to get in?" You have been braying about how AA taints the success of Blacks... Now be consistent and condemn all those whites getting preferential treatment over the higher scoring Asians...and guess what...there are millions more where they came from. Heh heh heh...I am embarrased by your hypocrisy

actually thought blacks were really smart because most of the ones I knew were very good in school. They weren't given preferential treatment for grades because they didn't NEED that kind of treatment!

I don't think blacks need preferential treatment today either in many places. But there was a time preference was necessary. Here is why. Before 1954 the facilities for educating Black children were abysmal and the teachers were hardly equipped to deliver an A+ education to their students. Kids of all ages would be crammed into a single class room...if they weren't frequently absent because
the family needed their help at home...or, to get the sharecrop in.

Suddenly, segregation was abolished ... at least on paper... in the white teachers who knew the blacks were coming to their schools lost no time in networking to marginalize them from the very beginning. From city governments all the way up. They quickly capitalized on the poor quality of education black children had been recieving for 60 years after the 1896 plessy vs Ferguson decision. Already Prejudiced, biased and hateful, rather than making efforts to bridge the gap created by segregation, many white educators opted for a social construct that black children were not mentally capable of competing with white kids.

 

[sealybobo]

No it doesn't. The very fact that affirmative action was necessary in the first place showed that the average white person never cared about blacks at all. So who cares if some idiot thinks AA undermines black success when they didn't care that the LACK of AA undermined Black success?

Is it really "success" when people whisper behind your back that you're only where you are because you were placed there ahead of people who rightfully deserved the position? Succeeding without things like AA might be far harder...but when you did succeed...nobody could claim that your success wasn't earned.

So you like it when black people succeed despite the rampant racism that they have to deal with when looking for a job?

Yes, I can imagine they feel a great sense of accomplishment when they succeed despite all that.

And does it bother you that you got your job because your daddy owns or runs the business? I never hear white complain because they got a job not because of what they know but who they know.

Ask Donald Trump if he is successful even though we whisper behind his back that the only reason he's rich is because he was born rich. Same with GW Bush. Do they care that we whisper?

My "daddy" was a firefighter with eight children. I got into the restaurant business as a teenager...something that he knew nothing about nor helped me get my first job. I started out as a prep cook in the kitchen and worked my way up to line cook in that restaurant. I put myself through college working five nights a week as a bartender. For some thirty five years I ran some of the larger bars and clubs in the country...once again in a field that my family had ZERO to do with! Would I have liked to have had a rich father who paid my way through school and set me up in a business? Sure...that would have been much easier. Did I whine about my lot in life and demand that someone "owed" me a living wage and a free college education? That never crossed my mind to be honest.

As for Donald Trump's success? He took a relatively modest family fortune and turned it into a business empire and he did it by working hard his entire adult life. Donald Trump's "daddy" didn't make him a billionaire. Donald Trump made himself a billionaire.

Well I predict the deregulations that are coming for guys like Trump will widen the gap between the rich and poor.

I have two privileged nephew's. Should they apologize my brother gives them every advantage he can? No. So I won't begrudge trump

Since the gap between the rich and the poor increased more under Barack Obama than any other President...it's hard to envision anything that Trump could possibly do to widen it more than it's been widened! Trump actually grasps what makes business men invest money and create jobs. It's an anticipation of profit...something that Barry could never quite figure out.

You must not have a good imagination then because it was all the GOP Bush policies that widened that gap. And Trump is going to double down on all that stuff. Lets see what were the things that caused the widened gap???

CEO pay went up while wages for workers stagnated
They raised co pays and deductables for workers which means less take home.
Cuts to social security and medicare
Hiring illegals so the business owner makes more but workers take the hit
Tax breaks to the rich
Corporate tax breaks

Its hard for me to see how the gap isn't going to get bigger.

 

[Oldstyle]

Is it really "success" when people whisper behind your back that you're only where you are because you were placed there ahead of people who rightfully deserved the position? Succeeding without things like AA might be far harder...but when you did succeed...nobody could claim that your success wasn't earned.

So you like it when black people succeed despite the rampant racism that they have to deal with when looking for a job?

Yes, I can imagine they feel a great sense of accomplishment when they succeed despite all that.

And does it bother you that you got your job because your daddy owns or runs the business? I never hear white complain because they got a job not because of what they know but who they know.

Ask Donald Trump if he is successful even though we whisper behind his back that the only reason he's rich is because he was born rich. Same with GW Bush. Do they care that we whisper?

My "daddy" was a firefighter with eight children. I got into the restaurant business as a teenager...something that he knew nothing about nor helped me get my first job. I started out as a prep cook in the kitchen and worked my way up to line cook in that restaurant. I put myself through college working five nights a week as a bartender. For some thirty five years I ran some of the larger bars and clubs in the country...once again in a field that my family had ZERO to do with! Would I have liked to have had a rich father who paid my way through school and set me up in a business? Sure...that would have been much easier. Did I whine about my lot in life and demand that someone "owed" me a living wage and a free college education? That never crossed my mind to be honest.

As for Donald Trump's success? He took a relatively modest family fortune and turned it into a business empire and he did it by working hard his entire adult life. Donald Trump's "daddy" didn't make him a billionaire. Donald Trump made himself a billionaire.

Well I predict the deregulations that are coming for guys like Trump will widen the gap between the rich and poor.

I have two privileged nephew's. Should they apologize my brother gives them every advantage he can? No. So I won't begrudge trump

Since the gap between the rich and the poor increased more under Barack Obama than any other President...it's hard to envision anything that Trump could possibly do to widen it more than it's been widened! Trump actually grasps what makes business men invest money and create jobs. It's an anticipation of profit...something that Barry could never quite figure out.

You must not have a good imagination then because it was all the GOP Bush policies that widened that gap. And Trump is going to double down on all that stuff. Lets see what were the things that caused the widened gap???

CEO pay went up while wages for workers stagnated
They raised co pays and deductables for workers which means less take home.
Cuts to social security and medicare
Hiring illegals so the business owner makes more but workers take the hit
Tax breaks to the rich
Corporate tax breaks

Its hard for me to see how the gap isn't going to get bigger.

Barack Obama was in office for two terms, Sealy! That's eight long years! During that time the gap between the rich and the poor got wider than any other President. What's laughable is that you on the left can't admit that happened...so you've decided that you'll blame Obama's failure on George W. Bush despite the fact that Democrats controlled the House, the Senate and the Oval Office when Obama took office and could have done a complete overhaul of the tax system. What did Barack Obama do to address ANY of the problems that you just named? Are you claiming that he was such an impotent President that he powerless to pass any legislation to address those issues? Interesting narrative when he WAS able to pass the Affordable Care Act!

 

[Oldstyle]

How do I stand? I don't believe in quotas. If you want to go to Harvard be the better candidate.

What the heck does that statemement have to do with this?
"where do you stand on the lawsuit brought by 64 Asian groups claiming discrimination in admissions to Harvard because they have to score140 points more than Whites to get in?" You have been braying about how AA taints the success of Blacks... Now be consistent and condemn all those whites getting preferential treatment over the higher scoring Asians...and guess what...there are millions more where they came from. Heh heh heh...I am embarrased by your hypocrisy

actually thought blacks were really smart because most of the ones I knew were very good in school. They weren't given preferential treatment for grades because they didn't NEED that kind of treatment!

I don't think blacks need preferential treatment today either in many places. But there was a time preference was necessary. Here is why. Before 1954 the facilities for educating Black children were abysmal and the teachers were hardly equipped to deliver an A+ education to their students. Kids of all ages would be crammed into a single class room...if they weren't frequently absent because
the family needed their help at home...or, to get the sharecrop in.

Suddenly, segregation was abolished ... at least on paper... in the white teachers who knew the blacks were coming to their schools lost no time in networking to marginalize them from the very beginning. From city governments all the way up. They quickly capitalized on the poor quality of education black children had been recieving for 60 years after the 1896 plessy vs Ferguson decision. Already Prejudiced, biased and hateful, rather than making efforts to bridge the gap created by segregation, many white educators opted for a social construct that black children were not mentally capable of competing with white kids.

How blunt do I have to be for you to understand my view on this? I don't believe in quotas! If you've got the best grades and the best test scores then you deserve your place at a college. I think it's unfair that deserving Asian students can't go to Harvard. I think it's unfair that anyone gets something they haven't EARNED because of a quota system. That goes for whites, blacks, Hispanics or any other group.

 

[sealybobo]

So you like it when black people succeed despite the rampant racism that they have to deal with when looking for a job?

Yes, I can imagine they feel a great sense of accomplishment when they succeed despite all that.

And does it bother you that you got your job because your daddy owns or runs the business? I never hear white complain because they got a job not because of what they know but who they know.

Ask Donald Trump if he is successful even though we whisper behind his back that the only reason he's rich is because he was born rich. Same with GW Bush. Do they care that we whisper?

My "daddy" was a firefighter with eight children. I got into the restaurant business as a teenager...something that he knew nothing about nor helped me get my first job. I started out as a prep cook in the kitchen and worked my way up to line cook in that restaurant. I put myself through college working five nights a week as a bartender. For some thirty five years I ran some of the larger bars and clubs in the country...once again in a field that my family had ZERO to do with! Would I have liked to have had a rich father who paid my way through school and set me up in a business? Sure...that would have been much easier. Did I whine about my lot in life and demand that someone "owed" me a living wage and a free college education? That never crossed my mind to be honest.

As for Donald Trump's success? He took a relatively modest family fortune and turned it into a business empire and he did it by working hard his entire adult life. Donald Trump's "daddy" didn't make him a billionaire. Donald Trump made himself a billionaire.

Well I predict the deregulations that are coming for guys like Trump will widen the gap between the rich and poor.

I have two privileged nephew's. Should they apologize my brother gives them every advantage he can? No. So I won't begrudge trump

Since the gap between the rich and the poor increased more under Barack Obama than any other President...it's hard to envision anything that Trump could possibly do to widen it more than it's been widened! Trump actually grasps what makes business men invest money and create jobs. It's an anticipation of profit...something that Barry could never quite figure out.

You must not have a good imagination then because it was all the GOP Bush policies that widened that gap. And Trump is going to double down on all that stuff. Lets see what were the things that caused the widened gap???

CEO pay went up while wages for workers stagnated
They raised co pays and deductables for workers which means less take home.
Cuts to social security and medicare
Hiring illegals so the business owner makes more but workers take the hit
Tax breaks to the rich
Corporate tax breaks

Its hard for me to see how the gap isn't going to get bigger.

Barack Obama was in office for two terms, Sealy! That's eight long years! During that time the gap between the rich and the poor got wider than any other President. What's laughable is that you on the left can't admit that happened...so you've decided that you'll blame Obama's failure on George W. Bush despite the fact that Democrats controlled the House, the Senate and the Oval Office when Obama took office and could have done a complete overhaul of the tax system. What did Barack Obama do to address ANY of the problems that you just named? Are you claiming that he was such an impotent President that he powerless to pass any legislation to address those issues? Interesting narrative when he WAS able to pass the Affordable Care Act!

No we know it happened. You refuse to admit why it happened. What did Obama do to widen the gap?

 

[sealybobo]

So you like it when black people succeed despite the rampant racism that they have to deal with when looking for a job?

Yes, I can imagine they feel a great sense of accomplishment when they succeed despite all that.

And does it bother you that you got your job because your daddy owns or runs the business? I never hear white complain because they got a job not because of what they know but who they know.

Ask Donald Trump if he is successful even though we whisper behind his back that the only reason he's rich is because he was born rich. Same with GW Bush. Do they care that we whisper?

My "daddy" was a firefighter with eight children. I got into the restaurant business as a teenager...something that he knew nothing about nor helped me get my first job. I started out as a prep cook in the kitchen and worked my way up to line cook in that restaurant. I put myself through college working five nights a week as a bartender. For some thirty five years I ran some of the larger bars and clubs in the country...once again in a field that my family had ZERO to do with! Would I have liked to have had a rich father who paid my way through school and set me up in a business? Sure...that would have been much easier. Did I whine about my lot in life and demand that someone "owed" me a living wage and a free college education? That never crossed my mind to be honest.

As for Donald Trump's success? He took a relatively modest family fortune and turned it into a business empire and he did it by working hard his entire adult life. Donald Trump's "daddy" didn't make him a billionaire. Donald Trump made himself a billionaire.

Well I predict the deregulations that are coming for guys like Trump will widen the gap between the rich and poor.

I have two privileged nephew's. Should they apologize my brother gives them every advantage he can? No. So I won't begrudge trump

Since the gap between the rich and the poor increased more under Barack Obama than any other President...it's hard to envision anything that Trump could possibly do to widen it more than it's been widened! Trump actually grasps what makes business men invest money and create jobs. It's an anticipation of profit...something that Barry could never quite figure out.

You must not have a good imagination then because it was all the GOP Bush policies that widened that gap. And Trump is going to double down on all that stuff. Lets see what were the things that caused the widened gap???

CEO pay went up while wages for workers stagnated
They raised co pays and deductables for workers which means less take home.
Cuts to social security and medicare
Hiring illegals so the business owner makes more but workers take the hit
Tax breaks to the rich
Corporate tax breaks

Its hard for me to see how the gap isn't going to get bigger.

Barack Obama was in office for two terms, Sealy! That's eight long years! During that time the gap between the rich and the poor got wider than any other President. What's laughable is that you on the left can't admit that happened...so you've decided that you'll blame Obama's failure on George W. Bush despite the fact that Democrats controlled the House, the Senate and the Oval Office when Obama took office and could have done a complete overhaul of the tax system. What did Barack Obama do to address ANY of the problems that you just named? Are you claiming that he was such an impotent President that he powerless to pass any legislation to address those issues? Interesting narrative when he WAS able to pass the Affordable Care Act!

Yes and the ACA did shrink the gap between the rich and poor. Think about it. If the poor didn't have healthcare before, that's another great example of the gap. But Obama gave the poor insurance. That means he shrunk the gap whether you like to admit it or not.

globalization and technological change have made most people less competitive, while making the best educated more competitive.

the increasing concentration of political power in a corporate and financial elite that has been able to influence the rules by which the economy runs.

this transformation has amounted to a pre-distribution upward.

Intellectual property rights—patents, trademarks and copyrights—have been enlarged and extended, for example, creating windfalls for pharmaceutical companies. Americans now pay the highest pharmaceutical costs of any advanced nation.

At the same time, antitrust laws have been relaxed for corporations with significant market power, such as big food companies, cable companies facing little or no broadband competition, big airlines and the largest Wall Street banks. As a result, Americans pay more for broadband Internet, food, airline tickets and banking services than the citizens of any other advanced nation.

Bankruptcy laws have been loosened for large corporations—airlines, automobile manufacturers, even casino magnates like Donald Trump—allowing them to leave workers and communities stranded. But bankruptcy has not been extended to homeowners burdened by mortgage debt or to graduates laden with student debt. Their debts won’t be forgiven.

The largest banks and auto manufacturers were bailed out in 2008, shifting the risks of economic failure onto the backs of average working people and taxpayers.

Contract laws have been altered to require mandatory arbitration before private judges selected by big corporations. Securities laws have been relaxed to allow insider trading of confidential information. CEOs now use stock buybacks to boost share prices when they cash in their own stock options.

Tax laws have special loopholes for the partners of hedge funds and private-equity funds, special favors for the oil and gas industry, lower marginal income-tax rates on the highest incomes and reduced estate taxes on great wealth.

Meanwhile, so-called “free trade” agreements, such as the pending Trans Pacific Partnership, give stronger protection to intellectual property and financial assets but less protection to the labor of average working Americans.

Today, nearly one out of every three working Americans is in a part-time job. Many are consultants, freelancers and independent contractors. Two-thirds are living paycheck to paycheck.

And employment benefits have shriveled. The portion of workers with any pension connected to their job has fallen from just over half in 1979 to under 35 percent today.

Labor unions have been eviscerated. Fifty years ago, when General Motors was the largest employer in America, the typical GM worker, backed by a strong union, earned $35 an hour in today’s dollars.

Now America’s largest employer is Wal-Mart, and the typical entry-level Wal-Mart worker, without a union, earns about $9 an hour.

More states have adopted so-called “right-to-work” laws, designed to bust unions. The National Labor Relations Board, understaffed and overburdened, has barely enforced collective bargaining.

All of these changes have resulted in higher corporate profits, higher returns for shareholders and higher pay for top corporate executives and Wall Street bankers – and lower pay and higher prices for most other Americans.

They amount to a giant pre-distribution upward to the rich. But we’re not aware of them because they’re hidden inside the market.

The underlying problem, then, is not just globalization and technological changes that have made most American workers less competitive. Nor is it that they lack enough education to be sufficiently productive.

The more basic problem is that the market itself has become tilted ever more in the direction of moneyed interests that have exerted disproportionate influence over it, while average workers have steadily lost bargaining power—both economic and political—to receive as large a portion of the economy’s gains as they commanded in the first three decades after World War II.

Reversing the scourge of widening inequality requires reversing the upward pre-distributions within the rules of the market, and giving average people the bargaining power they need to get a larger share of the gains from growth.

The answer to this problem is not found in economics. It is found in politics. Ultimately, the trend toward widening inequality in America, as elsewhere, can be reversed only if the vast majority join together to demand fundamental change.

The most important political competition over the next decades will not be between the right and left, or between Republicans and Democrats. It will be between a majority of Americans who have been losing ground, and an economic elite that refuses to recognize or respond to its growing distress.

http://www.newsweek.com/real-reason-growing-gap-between-rich-and-poor-377662

 

[Oldstyle]

My "daddy" was a firefighter with eight children. I got into the restaurant business as a teenager...something that he knew nothing about nor helped me get my first job. I started out as a prep cook in the kitchen and worked my way up to line cook in that restaurant. I put myself through college working five nights a week as a bartender. For some thirty five years I ran some of the larger bars and clubs in the country...once again in a field that my family had ZERO to do with! Would I have liked to have had a rich father who paid my way through school and set me up in a business? Sure...that would have been much easier. Did I whine about my lot in life and demand that someone "owed" me a living wage and a free college education? That never crossed my mind to be honest.

As for Donald Trump's success? He took a relatively modest family fortune and turned it into a business empire and he did it by working hard his entire adult life. Donald Trump's "daddy" didn't make him a billionaire. Donald Trump made himself a billionaire.

Well I predict the deregulations that are coming for guys like Trump will widen the gap between the rich and poor.

I have two privileged nephew's. Should they apologize my brother gives them every advantage he can? No. So I won't begrudge trump

Since the gap between the rich and the poor increased more under Barack Obama than any other President...it's hard to envision anything that Trump could possibly do to widen it more than it's been widened! Trump actually grasps what makes business men invest money and create jobs. It's an anticipation of profit...something that Barry could never quite figure out.

You must not have a good imagination then because it was all the GOP Bush policies that widened that gap. And Trump is going to double down on all that stuff. Lets see what were the things that caused the widened gap???

CEO pay went up while wages for workers stagnated
They raised co pays and deductables for workers which means less take home.
Cuts to social security and medicare
Hiring illegals so the business owner makes more but workers take the hit
Tax breaks to the rich
Corporate tax breaks

Its hard for me to see how the gap isn't going to get bigger.

Barack Obama was in office for two terms, Sealy! That's eight long years! During that time the gap between the rich and the poor got wider than any other President. What's laughable is that you on the left can't admit that happened...so you've decided that you'll blame Obama's failure on George W. Bush despite the fact that Democrats controlled the House, the Senate and the Oval Office when Obama took office and could have done a complete overhaul of the tax system. What did Barack Obama do to address ANY of the problems that you just named? Are you claiming that he was such an impotent President that he powerless to pass any legislation to address those issues? Interesting narrative when he WAS able to pass the Affordable Care Act!

No we know it happened. You refuse to admit why it happened. What did Obama do to widen the gap?

Eight years of an administration that didn't have a clue how to create jobs and relied on microscopic interest rates from the Fed to keep the economy from cratering created a situation where the Middle Class and the poor made few gains while the rich who had access to investment capital cleaned up in a resurgent stock market. Obama talked a good game about "income inequality" but his lack of an economic strategy to create jobs devastated both the poor and the Middle Class while it enriched the wealthy!

Blaming all of THAT on George Bush is an amusing concept.

 

[Oldstyle]

My "daddy" was a firefighter with eight children. I got into the restaurant business as a teenager...something that he knew nothing about nor helped me get my first job. I started out as a prep cook in the kitchen and worked my way up to line cook in that restaurant. I put myself through college working five nights a week as a bartender. For some thirty five years I ran some of the larger bars and clubs in the country...once again in a field that my family had ZERO to do with! Would I have liked to have had a rich father who paid my way through school and set me up in a business? Sure...that would have been much easier. Did I whine about my lot in life and demand that someone "owed" me a living wage and a free college education? That never crossed my mind to be honest.

As for Donald Trump's success? He took a relatively modest family fortune and turned it into a business empire and he did it by working hard his entire adult life. Donald Trump's "daddy" didn't make him a billionaire. Donald Trump made himself a billionaire.

Well I predict the deregulations that are coming for guys like Trump will widen the gap between the rich and poor.

I have two privileged nephew's. Should they apologize my brother gives them every advantage he can? No. So I won't begrudge trump

Since the gap between the rich and the poor increased more under Barack Obama than any other President...it's hard to envision anything that Trump could possibly do to widen it more than it's been widened! Trump actually grasps what makes business men invest money and create jobs. It's an anticipation of profit...something that Barry could never quite figure out.

You must not have a good imagination then because it was all the GOP Bush policies that widened that gap. And Trump is going to double down on all that stuff. Lets see what were the things that caused the widened gap???

CEO pay went up while wages for workers stagnated
They raised co pays and deductables for workers which means less take home.
Cuts to social security and medicare
Hiring illegals so the business owner makes more but workers take the hit
Tax breaks to the rich
Corporate tax breaks

Its hard for me to see how the gap isn't going to get bigger.

Barack Obama was in office for two terms, Sealy! That's eight long years! During that time the gap between the rich and the poor got wider than any other President. What's laughable is that you on the left can't admit that happened...so you've decided that you'll blame Obama's failure on George W. Bush despite the fact that Democrats controlled the House, the Senate and the Oval Office when Obama took office and could have done a complete overhaul of the tax system. What did Barack Obama do to address ANY of the problems that you just named? Are you claiming that he was such an impotent President that he powerless to pass any legislation to address those issues? Interesting narrative when he WAS able to pass the Affordable Care Act!

Yes and the ACA did shrink the gap between the rich and poor. Think about it. If the poor didn't have healthcare before, that's another great example of the gap. But Obama gave the poor insurance. That means he shrunk the gap whether you like to admit it or not.

globalization and technological change have made most people less competitive, while making the best educated more competitive.

the increasing concentration of political power in a corporate and financial elite that has been able to influence the rules by which the economy runs.

this transformation has amounted to a pre-distribution upward.

Intellectual property rights—patents, trademarks and copyrights—have been enlarged and extended, for example, creating windfalls for pharmaceutical companies. Americans now pay the highest pharmaceutical costs of any advanced nation.

At the same time, antitrust laws have been relaxed for corporations with significant market power, such as big food companies, cable companies facing little or no broadband competition, big airlines and the largest Wall Street banks. As a result, Americans pay more for broadband Internet, food, airline tickets and banking services than the citizens of any other advanced nation.

Bankruptcy laws have been loosened for large corporations—airlines, automobile manufacturers, even casino magnates like Donald Trump—allowing them to leave workers and communities stranded. But bankruptcy has not been extended to homeowners burdened by mortgage debt or to graduates laden with student debt. Their debts won’t be forgiven.

The largest banks and auto manufacturers were bailed out in 2008, shifting the risks of economic failure onto the backs of average working people and taxpayers.

Contract laws have been altered to require mandatory arbitration before private judges selected by big corporations. Securities laws have been relaxed to allow insider trading of confidential information. CEOs now use stock buybacks to boost share prices when they cash in their own stock options.

Tax laws have special loopholes for the partners of hedge funds and private-equity funds, special favors for the oil and gas industry, lower marginal income-tax rates on the highest incomes and reduced estate taxes on great wealth.

Meanwhile, so-called “free trade” agreements, such as the pending Trans Pacific Partnership, give stronger protection to intellectual property and financial assets but less protection to the labor of average working Americans.

Today, nearly one out of every three working Americans is in a part-time job. Many are consultants, freelancers and independent contractors. Two-thirds are living paycheck to paycheck.

And employment benefits have shriveled. The portion of workers with any pension connected to their job has fallen from just over half in 1979 to under 35 percent today.

Labor unions have been eviscerated. Fifty years ago, when General Motors was the largest employer in America, the typical GM worker, backed by a strong union, earned $35 an hour in today’s dollars.

Now America’s largest employer is Wal-Mart, and the typical entry-level Wal-Mart worker, without a union, earns about $9 an hour.

More states have adopted so-called “right-to-work” laws, designed to bust unions. The National Labor Relations Board, understaffed and overburdened, has barely enforced collective bargaining.

All of these changes have resulted in higher corporate profits, higher returns for shareholders and higher pay for top corporate executives and Wall Street bankers – and lower pay and higher prices for most other Americans.

They amount to a giant pre-distribution upward to the rich. But we’re not aware of them because they’re hidden inside the market.

The underlying problem, then, is not just globalization and technological changes that have made most American workers less competitive. Nor is it that they lack enough education to be sufficiently productive.

The more basic problem is that the market itself has become tilted ever more in the direction of moneyed interests that have exerted disproportionate influence over it, while average workers have steadily lost bargaining power—both economic and political—to receive as large a portion of the economy’s gains as they commanded in the first three decades after World War II.

Reversing the scourge of widening inequality requires reversing the upward pre-distributions within the rules of the market, and giving average people the bargaining power they need to get a larger share of the gains from growth.

The answer to this problem is not found in economics. It is found in politics. Ultimately, the trend toward widening inequality in America, as elsewhere, can be reversed only if the vast majority join together to demand fundamental change.

The most important political competition over the next decades will not be between the right and left, or between Republicans and Democrats. It will be between a majority of Americans who have been losing ground, and an economic elite that refuses to recognize or respond to its growing distress.

The Real Reason for the Growing Gap Between Rich and Poor

As for the ACA shrinking the gap in income inequality? It may have done that for the most poor and the rich, Sealy but at who's expense? The Middle Class has seen it's healthcare costs skyrocket to PAY for that! Eight years of Barack Obama screwed the Middle Class in a major way! It's why the Rust Belt went to Trump instead of Hillary. Middle Class union workers didn't want four more years of failed progressive policy.

 

[JQPublic1]

How do I stand? I don't believe in quotas. If you want to go to Harvard be the better candidate.

What the heck does that statemement have to do with this?
"where do you stand on the lawsuit brought by 64 Asian groups claiming discrimination in admissions to Harvard because they have to score140 points more than Whites to get in?" You have been braying about how AA taints the success of Blacks... Now be consistent and condemn all those whites getting preferential treatment over the higher scoring Asians...and guess what...there are millions more where they came from. Heh heh heh...I am embarrased by your hypocrisy

actually thought blacks were really smart because most of the ones I knew were very good in school. They weren't given preferential treatment for grades because they didn't NEED that kind of treatment!

I don't think blacks need preferential treatment today either in many places. But there was a time preference was necessary. Here is why. Before 1954 the facilities for educating Black children were abysmal and the teachers were hardly equipped to deliver an A+ education to their students. Kids of all ages would be crammed into a single class room...if they weren't frequently absent because
the family needed their help at home...or, to get the sharecrop in.

Suddenly, segregation was abolished ... at least on paper... in the white teachers who knew the blacks were coming to their schools lost no time in networking to marginalize them from the very beginning. From city governments all the way up. They quickly capitalized on the poor quality of education black children had been recieving for 60 years after the 1896 plessy vs Ferguson decision. Already Prejudiced, biased and hateful, rather than making efforts to bridge the gap created by segregation, many white educators opted for a social construct that black children were not mentally capable of competing with white kids.

How blunt do I have to be for you to understand my view on this? I don't believe in quotas! If you've got the best grades and the best test scores then you deserve your place at a college. I think it's unfair that deserving Asian students can't go to Harvard. I think it's unfair that anyone gets something they haven't EARNED because of a quota system. That goes for whites, blacks, Hispanics or any other group.

Looks like we agree on not likng quotas.
BTW..

1. Admission quotas were forbidden by the Supreme Court in 1973.

2. Adding points to the scores of underrepresented minorities was ruled unconstitutional in .2003

Given those two rulings I am guessing your allusion to quotas arise from the
The following:2013:

"In Fisher v. University of Texas at Austin, the court ruled that lower courts needed to apply “strict scrutiny” and not give colleges deference in reviews of challenges to the consideration of race
and ethnicity in admissions decisions."

Rather than putting my own spin on that decision I'll post the link and we can debate the merits of the USSC majority Opinion and Dissenting opinions.
That is better than what we are doing now...
Supreme Court upholds consideration of race in admissions