VietNam..April 30th....How It Ended.

[NoNukes]

Gunshots that eyewitnesses did not hear, including the National Guard. They never used this as an excuse for firing with live ammunition.

Untrue. In any case there has never been any dispute that the rioters were throwing rocks and bottles which can cause serious injury or death. Ever hear of "stoning"?

Ever hear of backing away? Ever hear of not firing into a general crowd because maybe a few were out of line? Ever heard that the US Army firing on US citizens is horrific? You guys who think the army wouldn't shoot resisters should remember this ghastly, tragic act.

And as for 'pistol shots', never had any info on that before, but if we admit they happened 70 seconds before....?!? Over a minute? Then nothing? Then we shoot young people expressing themselves as the Constitution provides? If the N. G. had not been there, who would have died?

The men who fired are criminal murderers and I hope they realize that fully everyday of their lives.

If 9thDoc were really an ex soldier, would you have to explain the Rules of Engagement to him?

 

[there4eyeM]

Isn't this thread about the denouement of America's involvement in Vietnam?

 

[Spoonman]

Untrue. In any case there has never been any dispute that the rioters were throwing rocks and bottles which can cause serious injury or death. Ever hear of "stoning"?

Ever hear of backing away? Ever hear of not firing into a general crowd because maybe a few were out of line? Ever heard that the US Army firing on US citizens is horrific? You guys who think the army wouldn't shoot resisters should remember this ghastly, tragic act.

And as for 'pistol shots', never had any info on that before, but if we admit they happened 70 seconds before....?!? Over a minute? Then nothing? Then we shoot young people expressing themselves as the Constitution provides? If the N. G. had not been there, who would have died?

The men who fired are criminal murderers and I hope they realize that fully everyday of their lives.

If 9thDoc were really an ex soldier, would you have to explain the Rules of Engagement to him?

the rules of engagement in a real war or a liberal war?

 

[there4eyeM]

Ever hear of backing away? Ever hear of not firing into a general crowd because maybe a few were out of line? Ever heard that the US Army firing on US citizens is horrific? You guys who think the army wouldn't shoot resisters should remember this ghastly, tragic act.

And as for 'pistol shots', never had any info on that before, but if we admit they happened 70 seconds before....?!? Over a minute? Then nothing? Then we shoot young people expressing themselves as the Constitution provides? If the N. G. had not been there, who would have died?

The men who fired are criminal murderers and I hope they realize that fully everyday of their lives.

If 9thDoc were really an ex soldier, would you have to explain the Rules of Engagement to him?

the rules of engagement in a real war or a liberal war?

Choose whatever pleases you.

Kent State was a disgusting, shameful crime and only the failure to convict the criminals comes close to equaling it.

But back to Vietnam; was that a 'real' war or a 'liberal' war? Did 'liberals' want to fight Ho Chi Min or was it anti-communist conservatives?

Personally, I wouldn't call it a real war since, like Iraq, Congress didn't have the strength of character to declare it.

As for who wanted and directed it, that can be defined as fools.

 

[Spoonman]

If 9thDoc were really an ex soldier, would you have to explain the Rules of Engagement to him?

the rules of engagement in a real war or a liberal war?

Choose whatever pleases you.

Kent State was a disgusting, shameful crime and only the failure to convict the criminals comes close to equaling it.

But back to Vietnam; was that a 'real' war or a 'liberal' war? Did 'liberals' want to fight Ho Chi Min or was it anti-communist conservatives?

Personally, I wouldn't call it a real war since, like Iraq, Congress didn't have the strength of character to declare it.

As for who wanted and directed it, that can be defined as fools.

the real crime was letting terrorists like bill ayers off and still walking freely today.

so kennedy and johnson who got us into the war and escalated it are now conservatives?

 

[there4eyeM]

the rules of engagement in a real war or a liberal war?

Choose whatever pleases you.

Kent State was a disgusting, shameful crime and only the failure to convict the criminals comes close to equaling it.

But back to Vietnam; was that a 'real' war or a 'liberal' war? Did 'liberals' want to fight Ho Chi Min or was it anti-communist conservatives?

Personally, I wouldn't call it a real war since, like Iraq, Congress didn't have the strength of character to declare it.

As for who wanted and directed it, that can be defined as fools.

the real crime was letting terrorists like bill ayers off and still walking freely today.

so kennedy and johnson who got us into the war and escalated it are now conservatives?

Your revisionism is showing, as is your refusal to understand English.

Eisenhower sent the first US troops and it was under his administration that the agreed elections were not held.
Where did I say Kennedy and Johnson were conservatives?
I don't care what they were, and I am neither a 'conservative' nor a 'liberal'. I did clearly state they were all fools, especially Nixon and Kissinger.

I await your misinterpretation of this.

 

[Spoonman]

Choose whatever pleases you.

Kent State was a disgusting, shameful crime and only the failure to convict the criminals comes close to equaling it.

But back to Vietnam; was that a 'real' war or a 'liberal' war? Did 'liberals' want to fight Ho Chi Min or was it anti-communist conservatives?

Personally, I wouldn't call it a real war since, like Iraq, Congress didn't have the strength of character to declare it.

As for who wanted and directed it, that can be defined as fools.

the real crime was letting terrorists like bill ayers off and still walking freely today.

so kennedy and johnson who got us into the war and escalated it are now conservatives?

Your revisionism is showing, as is your refusal to understand English.

Eisenhower sent the first US troops and it was under his administration that the agreed elections were not held.
Where did I say Kennedy and Johnson were conservatives?
I don't care what they were, and I am neither a 'conservative' nor a 'liberal'. I did clearly state they were all fools, especially Nixon and Kissinger.

I await your misinterpretation of this.

nixon and kissenger ended the war. Eisnehower only follwed through on a commitment maid by truman. kennedy and johnson escalated the war. looks like you are the revisionist.

 

[there4eyeM]

They are the fools.

And you didn't fail my expectations.

 

[Spoonman]

Gunshots that eyewitnesses did not hear, including the National Guard. They never used this as an excuse for firing with live ammunition.

Untrue. In any case there has never been any dispute that the rioters were throwing rocks and bottles which can cause serious injury or death. Ever hear of "stoning"?

Yes, this was the National Guards defense, the students were throwing rocks and bottles. There was never any mention that they were being fired upon. Audio tape or not, the Guardsmen did not hear shots.

hey No Nukes, FL Biker told me to tell you to STFU lol

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

nixon and kissenger ended the war. Eisnehower only follwed through on a commitment maid by truman. kennedy and johnson escalated the war.

and

Ike had to follow Truman?

Nixon/Kissinger had a secret peace plan to end the war (not win it) that cost almost as many lives in 4 short years to equal the deaths from Truman to Johnson?

When Nixon took office in 1969, the America's involvement in the war in Vietnam had been going on for nearly five years. Over 30,000 Americas had died, and a vocal contingent of citizens at home had taken to the streets to demand peace. Nixon optimistically predicted that a satisfactory truce would come in time for the Congressional elections of 1970, but his policy of Vietnamization, or gradual withdrawal of American troops, foundered when South Vietnam failed to hold up its end of the fighting.

Nixon managed to end the war not in 1970, but in early 1973. By then, 25,000 more American soldiers had died, and Nixon's chance to earn the title of peacemaker had evaporated. Although Nixon withdrew American troops steadily from the time he took office, he had also extended the war into Cambodia and Laos. In the minds of many, Vietnam would always be Richard Nixon's war. Legacy . Nixon . WGBH American Experience | PBS

and some people strongly believe Nixon/Kissinger prolonged the war in order to win reelection

 

[Spoonman]

Yea he did. it was part of the agreement that came out of WWII.

yea, they ended the war. they listened to what the american public wanted, and end to the war. so if you want to place blame for the deaths of american soldiers, blame the protestors, media and universities,

 

[9thIDdoc]

Untrue. In any case there has never been any dispute that the rioters were throwing rocks and bottles which can cause serious injury or death. Ever hear of "stoning"?

Ever hear of backing away? Ever hear of not firing into a general crowd because maybe a few were out of line? Ever heard that the US Army firing on US citizens is horrific? You guys who think the army wouldn't shoot resisters should remember this ghastly, tragic act.

And as for 'pistol shots', never had any info on that before, but if we admit they happened 70 seconds before....?!? Over a minute? Then nothing? Then we shoot young people expressing themselves as the Constitution provides? If the N. G. had not been there, who would have died?

The men who fired are criminal murderers and I hope they realize that fully everyday of their lives.

If 9thDoc were really an ex soldier, would you have to explain the Rules of Engagement to him?

Do you idiots ever get tired of trying to reinvent history? As I noted earlier I was in fact in Cambodia in a unit actively involved in combat with a hostile force following real ROE when those spoiled brats decided to riot at Kent State. My Bn. (2/47, 3rd Bde., 9th ID) was awarded a Valorous Unit Citation and I was to receive an Army Commendation Medal and a Combat Medical Badge for actions during this time period. There were no recorded violations of ROE and this is a matter of record.
The rioters at Kent State were in fact violent criminals; not peaceful protesters. They were in their 4th day of arson, property destruction, and assault on police and firefighters. They were given every opportunity to act in a legal and civilized manner and simply refused to do so. I have no sympathy for them.

 

[Spoonman]

Ever hear of backing away? Ever hear of not firing into a general crowd because maybe a few were out of line? Ever heard that the US Army firing on US citizens is horrific? You guys who think the army wouldn't shoot resisters should remember this ghastly, tragic act.

And as for 'pistol shots', never had any info on that before, but if we admit they happened 70 seconds before....?!? Over a minute? Then nothing? Then we shoot young people expressing themselves as the Constitution provides? If the N. G. had not been there, who would have died?

The men who fired are criminal murderers and I hope they realize that fully everyday of their lives.

If 9thDoc were really an ex soldier, would you have to explain the Rules of Engagement to him?

Do you idiots ever get tired of trying to reinvent history? As I noted earlier I was in fact in Cambodia in a unit actively involved in combat with a hostile force following real ROE when those spoiled brats decided to riot at Kent State. My Bn. (2/47, 3rd Bde., 9th ID) was awarded a Valorous Unit Citation and I was to receive an Army Commendation Medal and a Combat Medical Badge for actions during this time period. There were no recorded violations of ROE and this is a matter of record.
The rioters at Kent State were in fact violent criminals; not peaceful protesters. They were in their 4th day of arson, property destruction, and assault on police and firefighters. They were given every opportunity to act in a legal and civilized manner and simply refused to do so. I have no sympathy for them.

i love this line - Ever heard that the US Army firing on US citizens is horrific? yet these jokers will be the first ones demanding the military go out and confiscate guns from the citizens of the USA if obama ever gets his laws passed. and they will welcome deadly force against any who resist. hypocrites

 

[there4eyeM]

It has sometimes been considered by international law experts that invading neutral countries is a war crime. Would anyone here care to disagree with those experts?

 

[there4eyeM]

Some things are so indefensible that speaking with those who defend them loses all sense.

Goodbye.

(Damn, I hate when I let typos in! Fixed it, though.)

 

[bornright]

It has sometimes been considered by international law experts that invading neutral countries is a war crime. Would anyone here care to disagree with those experts?

Which neutral country are you referring to?

 

[bornright]

I have been outside checking on my cows. We haven't invaded Sweden have we?

 

[9thIDdoc]

It has sometimes been considered by international law experts that invading neutral countries is a war crime. Would anyone here care to disagree with those experts?

Obviously the N. Vietnamese would not agree.

 

[NoNukes]

and there you have it, a liberal calling indoctrination a proper education

I am calling education education. What most people do with their kids is indoctrination.

most liberals

Liberals are more likely to teach their children to form their own opinions.

 

[NoNukes]

Ever hear of backing away? Ever hear of not firing into a general crowd because maybe a few were out of line? Ever heard that the US Army firing on US citizens is horrific? You guys who think the army wouldn't shoot resisters should remember this ghastly, tragic act.

And as for 'pistol shots', never had any info on that before, but if we admit they happened 70 seconds before....?!? Over a minute? Then nothing? Then we shoot young people expressing themselves as the Constitution provides? If the N. G. had not been there, who would have died?

The men who fired are criminal murderers and I hope they realize that fully everyday of their lives.

If 9thDoc were really an ex soldier, would you have to explain the Rules of Engagement to him?

the rules of engagement in a real war or a liberal war?

If you have nothing intelligent to say, try silence.