Vietnam War

[GHook93]

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The documentary drove home one salient point; the US knew from the start, they could never win a military victory in Vietnam....and yet, the lie of victory is what they fed the public....to the tune of over 50,000 American troops and over 2,000,000 South East Asians, dead.

That is when you should have discounted the show as liberal propaganda. We in fact had it won, until Dems backed out of promises


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Decus]

Both Democrat presidents - Kennedy and Johnson- were strongly anti-communist. Kennedy felt that he couldn't allow SE Asian countries like Laos and Vietnam to fall to communist domination - his belief followed along the lines of "bear any burden" to keep them free. His approach was a mix of military as well as economic support for Vietnam.

Johnson was more interested in a military solution and increased troop numbers and initiated bombing campaigns.

Kennedy and Johnson were both instrumental in our decision to go to war with North Vietnam and the subsequent loss of life.

.

 

[SSGT Bags]

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The documentary drove home one salient point; the US knew from the start, they could never win a military victory in Vietnam....and yet, the lie of victory is what they fed the public....to the tune of over 50,000 American troops and over 2,000,000 South East Asians, dead.

A lot of the blame lies with General Westmoreland, now deceased.

Today’s list: The top ten reasons Gen. Westmoreland lost the war in Vietnam

You obviously do not know

I didn't watch it but I bet the guy with a haircut like a ten year old didn't bring up LBJ's lies and fake crisis and the fact that he set the rules so that we could win every battle and still lose the war and blame it on Nixon. The crazy part is just when LBJ's insane policy of wearing down an enemy that had been fighting for decades, was working he gave up in a tearful address to Americans and general Giap was able to recruit replacements that he lost during Tet.

what the hell you are talking about!
The entire blame lies solely in the hands of LBJ and Robert macnamara.
These two twits with no military experience mad Vietnam a war of "attrition."
Meaning, let's say there were 250,000 NVA,
If we kill 250,000, we will win.
What these idiots forgot was that every year, more people turned 18, and joined the NVA.
DOY!
That's why daily body counts were so important.
And, if you want a real education, just google Macnamara's 100,000.
He drafted 100,000 with low IQ's into the Army.
There was a unit of them going through basic training next to me in July 1969.
My basic was 8 weeks, their's was 16 weeks,
Can you say cannon fodder?

 

[Windparadox]

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Too his only credit, Nixon knew (politically) we had to get out of Vietnam. Unfortunately, there was no easy way to do it.

 

[Mindful]

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The documentary drove home one salient point; the US knew from the start, they could never win a military victory in Vietnam....and yet, the lie of victory is what they fed the public....to the tune of over 50,000 American troops and over 2,000,000 South East Asians, dead.

That is when you should have discounted the show as liberal propaganda. We in fact had it won, until Dems backed out of promises


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I've heard that said about the director. Do you think it was biased?

 

[Hossfly]

At one point the Vietcong had superior Russian made weapons. Did you see the part where the US soldiers' guns jammed during heavy artillery fire?

Incorrect.....the Soviet weapons were never superior to American weapons.

The jamming incident happened when the new M-16 rifle was first introduced to into the conflict. A change of gunpowder formula, hard chroming various metal parts, and the introduction of cleaning kits, resolved the jamming issues. Resulting in a world class weapon, who's basic design is still used today. ...

The jamming problem happened with the Marines in 1965. The Army didn't have that problem and there was a simple explanation.
The Army infantry loaded the magazines with 1 tracer round every 6 rounds and everyone could see where their firing was most effective and concentrated their fire on the most vital targets. However, the Marine infantry would have their firing directed by the squad leader and fire team leaders by firing tracer rounds where they wanted the squad to concentrate their fire. The riflemen did not load tracers in their magazines and after firing many magazines of ammo the bolts wouldn't close even though there was a forward assist assembly for the bolt.
The Armalite Company sent technicians to Army and Marine units to find out why the Army didn't have jamming problems but Marine units did. They discovered that the tracer rounds, upon being fired would burn out the carbon from the chamber and barrel of the M-16, eliminating jamming and stoppages. The techs brought this to the attention of the Marine Corps who adopted the Army's method and that solved the problem. Anyone who was in Vietnam in 1965 will remember that.

 

[Windparadox]

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Wasn't the M-16, originally, a fully automatic rifle?

 

[Hossfly]

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The documentary drove home one salient point; the US knew from the start, they could never win a military victory in Vietnam....and yet, the lie of victory is what they fed the public....to the tune of over 50,000 American troops and over 2,000,000 South East Asians, dead.

That is when you should have discounted the show as liberal propaganda. We in fact had it won, until Dems backed out of promises


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Correct. We had it won and would have won if Nixon hadn't chickened out. Kissinger had Hanoi all ready to surrender until Nixon suddenly remembered how the Japanese sent a surrender party to the British in Singapore and damned if the Brits didn't wind up surrendering instead. So instead of accepting Hanoi's surrender, Nixon decided to pull out of Vietnam instead. What a clusterfuck that became.

 

[Hossfly]

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Wasn't the M-16, originally, a fully automatic rifle?

No, it had a selector switch.

 

[Sunni Man]

He drafted 100,000 with low IQ's into the Army. There was a unit of them going through basic training next to me in July 1969. My basic was 8 weeks, their's was 16 weeks,
Can you say cannon fodder?

Sounds like a pure BS story to me. .....

 

[SSGT Bags]

Just watching Ken Burns doc on the bbc.

I will have to watch it again when the house is quieter.

But at first glance it does seem that a lot of brave young men were let down badly by the politicians and the Generals.

I dont know if the doc is accurate but the impression given is that they just didnt have a clue.

My knowledge of the conflict is poor and mainly taken from the movies.

How did it go so badly ?

It is very accurate.

At one point the Vietcong had superior Russian made weapons. Did you see the part where the US soldiers' guns jammed during heavy artillery fire?

Resulting in much loss of life.

What the heck are you talking about?
Obvious neophyte here!
What does artillery fire have to do with infantry weapons?

 

[Hossfly]

The Vietnam War was a civil war we had no right to be involved in.
Poor leadership, Poor Decisions and over 50,000 dead Americans.
Waste of Blood and Treasure...... I sure hope the politician that got us involved get what is coming to them

What happened when it finished ?
Was there an enquiry ? Were people held to account ?

No need for an inquiry. The guilty culprits, Kennedy and Johnson were worm food by 1973.

Nixon ran on "I have a plan", that being to end the war in Vietnam; this promise was the theme of his campaign during the summer of 1969. His plan, seems to have been, to expand the war into Cambodian and Laos and spend months arguing about the shape of the table at the Paris Peace Talks.

Four years later he was reelected notwithstanding the continuous body count of our troops. It was IKE who sent the first advisors into Vietnam, too bad Hossfly needs to lie, but that's what right wingers always seem to do.

Your right about Ike sending advisors to Vietnam, but only to advise, not to fight. The bastard, Kennedy, escalated the war and Johnson and his micromanaging created a clusterfuck. Hossfly doesn't lie so get that thought out of your empty liberal skull.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The Vietnam War was a civil war we had no right to be involved in.
Poor leadership, Poor Decisions and over 50,000 dead Americans.
Waste of Blood and Treasure...... I sure hope the politician that got us involved get what is coming to them

What happened when it finished ?
Was there an enquiry ? Were people held to account ?

No need for an inquiry. The guilty culprits, Kennedy and Johnson were worm food by 1973.

Nixon ran on "I have a plan", that being to end the war in Vietnam; this promise was the theme of his campaign during the summer of 1969. His plan, seems to have been, to expand the war into Cambodian and Laos and spend months arguing about the shape of the table at the Paris Peace Talks.

Four years later he was reelected notwithstanding the continuous body count of our troops. It was IKE who sent the first advisors into Vietnam, too bad Hossfly needs to lie, but that's what right wingers always seem to do.

Your right about Ike sending advisors to Vietnam, but only to advise, not to fight. The bastard, Kennedy, escalated the war and Johnson and his micromanaging created a clusterfuck. Hossfly doesn't lie so get that thought out of your empty liberal skull.

Vietnam was a "clusterfuck" from the moment Diem claimed his leadership, and in the Trumpian way claimed he won with over 95% of the vote. Pointing fingers at JFK and LBJ is AT BEST a half-truth, and a half-truth, like a lie by omission, is still an effort to mislead and thus a lie.

 

[Mindful]

Just watching Ken Burns doc on the bbc.

I will have to watch it again when the house is quieter.

But at first glance it does seem that a lot of brave young men were let down badly by the politicians and the Generals.

I dont know if the doc is accurate but the impression given is that they just didnt have a clue.

My knowledge of the conflict is poor and mainly taken from the movies.

How did it go so badly ?

It is very accurate.

At one point the Vietcong had superior Russian made weapons. Did you see the part where the US soldiers' guns jammed during heavy artillery fire?

Resulting in much loss of life.

What the heck are you talking about?
Obvious neophyte here!
What does artillery fire have to do with infantry weapons?

I was going by what was said in the film, and the impressions of one particular battle. That's what I was talking about.

I don't know what a neophyte is. Don't bother. I'll look it up.

 

[Mindful]

Okay. New to the details, despite that war being a background to my life.

You could explain stuff with less aggression.

 

[there4eyeM]

Vietnam was the bad guys fighting the bad guys, with neither side understanding the other. Sheer idiocy.

 

[Hossfly]

He drafted 100,000 with low IQ's into the Army. There was a unit of them going through basic training next to me in July 1969. My basic was 8 weeks, their's was 16 weeks,
Can you say cannon fodder?

Sounds like a pure BS story to me. .....

Actually, Sunni Man the problem started in late 1966 when judges around the country started sweeping the streets and ordering criminals to either go to jail or join a service. I saw many, many draftees and recruits from those who couldn't read or write up to college grads who could barely read or write. It got worse right up to 1977 when I retired and didn't have to put up with those knuckleheads any more. In late '66-early '68 and late '74 to Dec '77 I could write a book about those pathetic humans. Up until 1966 a single male had to have an AFQT of 60 to join the military and from then until I got out in late '77, it dropped to 10. Imagine having an IQ of 10! SSGT Bags was correct. The trainees in '69 took Basic and AIT together if they were in that low AFQT group making it 16 weeks. The last 3 years before retiring I was 1Sgt of Special Training Company. (We called it Shirley Temple Company) I would have as many as 500 trainees in my company and each week we would graduate about 100 and receive about 100 newbies. Upon arrival the newbies would arrive by bus and when they got off I would have them line up, drop their bags and strip to their shorts. Then, my 15 DIs would search their gear and generally come up with a bunch of pistols, knives and brass knuckles. I won't go any further but you can see what king of tripe we had to deal with.

 

[Hossfly]

The Vietnam War was a civil war we had no right to be involved in.
Poor leadership, Poor Decisions and over 50,000 dead Americans.
Waste of Blood and Treasure...... I sure hope the politician that got us involved get what is coming to them

What happened when it finished ?
Was there an enquiry ? Were people held to account ?

No need for an inquiry. The guilty culprits, Kennedy and Johnson were worm food by 1973.

Nixon ran on "I have a plan", that being to end the war in Vietnam; this promise was the theme of his campaign during the summer of 1969. His plan, seems to have been, to expand the war into Cambodian and Laos and spend months arguing about the shape of the table at the Paris Peace Talks.

Four years later he was reelected notwithstanding the continuous body count of our troops. It was IKE who sent the first advisors into Vietnam, too bad Hossfly needs to lie, but that's what right wingers always seem to do.

Your right about Ike sending advisors to Vietnam, but only to advise, not to fight. The bastard, Kennedy, escalated the war and Johnson and his micromanaging created a clusterfuck. Hossfly doesn't lie so get that thought out of your empty liberal skull.

Vietnam was a "clusterfuck" from the moment Diem claimed his leadership, and in the Trumpian way claimed he won with over 95% of the vote. Pointing fingers at JFK and LBJ is AT BEST a half-truth, and a half-truth, like a lie by omission, is still an effort to mislead and thus a lie.

I happened to be in the Army when Ike was President until the Plains Peanut Farmer was around and I and everyone who was around then knows that Kennedy was worthless cause he's the one that started the crap that ended with Obammy and Johnson was an asshole. No finger pointing, just stating facts.

 

[xyz]

Just watching Ken Burns doc on the bbc.

I will have to watch it again when the house is quieter.

But at first glance it does seem that a lot of brave young men were let down badly by the politicians and the Generals.

I dont know if the doc is accurate but the impression given is that they just didnt have a clue.

My knowledge of the conflict is poor and mainly taken from the movies.

How did it go so badly ?

It is very accurate.

At one point the Vietcong had superior Russian made weapons. Did you see the part where the US soldiers' guns jammed during heavy artillery fire?

Resulting in much loss of life.

What the heck are you talking about?
Obvious neophyte here!
What does artillery fire have to do with infantry weapons?

I did not see the documentary, but it seems they were fired upon from that phrase.

 

[Desperado]

What happened when it finished ?
Was there an enquiry ? Were people held to account ?

No need for an inquiry. The guilty culprits, Kennedy and Johnson were worm food by 1973.

Nixon ran on "I have a plan", that being to end the war in Vietnam; this promise was the theme of his campaign during the summer of 1969. His plan, seems to have been, to expand the war into Cambodian and Laos and spend months arguing about the shape of the table at the Paris Peace Talks.

Four years later he was reelected notwithstanding the continuous body count of our troops. It was IKE who sent the first advisors into Vietnam, too bad Hossfly needs to lie, but that's what right wingers always seem to do.

Your right about Ike sending advisors to Vietnam, but only to advise, not to fight. The bastard, Kennedy, escalated the war and Johnson and his micromanaging created a clusterfuck. Hossfly doesn't lie so get that thought out of your empty liberal skull.

Vietnam was a "clusterfuck" from the moment Diem claimed his leadership, and in the Trumpian way claimed he won with over 95% of the vote. Pointing fingers at JFK and LBJ is AT BEST a half-truth, and a half-truth, like a lie by omission, is still an effort to mislead and thus a lie.

I happened to be in the Army when Ike was President until the Plains Peanut Farmer was around and I and everyone who was around then knows that Kennedy was worthless cause he's the one that started the crap that ended with Obammy and Johnson was an asshole. No finger pointing, just stating facts.

All Presidents that served during the Vietnam War have blood on their hands and not one of them gets a pass, they are all responsible.