Violence Has It's Home On The Left.

[JakeStarkey]

NYC: Were the Nazis rightwing or not? It's a simple question. See if you can answer it with something at least in the general vicinity of a yes or no, and in the neighborhood of 1000 words or less.

PC: Left wing as they come

JakeStarkey: In fact, there were left and right wings, and the right put down the left in The Night of Long Knives.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am sure that PC will permit her readers to decide whether Bobby was a presidential assassination.

At least two of her readers state strongly he is not.

You two aren't 'readers'...you're partisan loonies!

You are projecting your own inner angst, PoliticalChic. You are as far right partisan loony as they come.

Your errors have been pointed out to you, and you can't stand it, that's all.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So in the highlighted, you are making an argument that one person was an anti-Israel is leftist because she calls Israel 'Nazi', thus it's another example of this theory about the left being violence's home.

Since she is calling Israel rightwing, thus her opposition to that classifies her as leftwing?

Fair enough?

In using that argument however, you unequivocally acknowledge that the Nazis were rightwing.



Thus the sum total of the violence committed in the name and spirit of NAZISM thus qualifies as RIGHTWING VIOLENCE.

That alone overwhelmingly refutes the claim in your OP that violence has its home on the left.

While regularly wrong- although never in doubt, it is soooo very cute that your posts allow me the opportunity to puncture one left wing meme-balloon after another.
Kiss, kiss, hug, hug.

1. There was no Israel in the Nazi era...
Isn't it exhilarating when you learn something new?

2. Nazism was an offshoot of the same fascism that gave the world progressivism, environmenetalism, communism, and the other totalitarianisms.

a. The origins of Progressivism are to be found in Germany, as the early Progressives either studied in Germany, or had teachers who did so. Hegel’s views are primary here. This legacy included:

The state over the individual.
“As would be expected by the socialist part of National Socialism, the guiding principle of Nazi economics was that all property belongs to the people, the Volk, and was to be used only for the good of the people. Just as one’s body is no longer one’s private possession but rather belongs to the whole community, economic property was no longer anyone’s private possession but to be used by State permission and only for the good of the people.” Stephen Hicks, Ph.D. Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz

Did you know that the German translation of 'National Socialism' gave us the term 'nazi'?

b. [Goldberg] states that both modern liberalism and fascism descended from progressivism, and that prior to World War II, "fascism was widely viewed as a progressive social movement with many liberal and left-wing adherents in Europe and the United States".[2] Goldberg has told interviewers that the title Liberal Fascism comes "directly from a speech that H.G. Wells gave to the Young Liberals at Oxford in 1932."[3][4][5] Goldberg claims that Wells had stated that he wanted to "assist in a kind of phoenix rebirth" of liberalism as an "enlightened Nazism."
Liberal Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

c. ‘’’the title Liberal Fascism comes from a speech delivered by H. G. Wells, one of the most important and influential progressive and socialist intellectuals of the 20th century. He wanted to re-brand liberalism as “liberal fascism” and even “enlightened Nazism.” He believed these terms best described his own political views — views that deeply informed American progressivism and New Deal liberalism.
Basically, Wells believed parliamentary democracy is incapable of bringing about a proper political order. Only an authoritarian, technocratic elite can do so."
Liberal Fascism: Wings Over the World Edition — Crooked Timber


Pay careful attention to the line from c. above..."Wells believed parliamentary democracy is incapable of bringing about a proper political order."

This, my friend, is the very essence of the OP...Some members of the left, absorbing Well's ideas, go so far as to see political assassination as consistent with the religious ferver of their ideology.

...I can't thank you enough!

Incoherent rambling.

Were the Nazis rightwing or not? It's a simple question. See if you can answer it with something at least in the general vicinity of a yes or no, and in the neighborhood of 1000 words or less.

While an argument can be made that at it's extremes, the political spectrum forms a circle, where statism can be identified with both parties (an argument that you should have made), there is no conclusive benefit in taking that position...

Rather, the identifying feature that corrals all totalist views is the priority of the state over the individual...it is no accident that Nazi coins had the motto '“Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz" which means 'the common good before self interest.'

Now it remains for you to argue that the right, the Founders, the DoI, the Constitution is based on restricing the power of the state, in favor of the individual.

If you cannot do that, you lose: national socialism, nazism, is a left wing totalist philosophy.

Here a few nails for your coffin:

1. Fascism is a religion of the state. It is totalitarian in that it assumes everything is political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including the economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives. Any rival identity is defined as the enemy. American liberalism embodies all of these aspects of fascism. Jonah Goldberg, Liberal Fascism, p. 23

2. Although Stanley Payne's definition is far more detailed, Gentile's may be good enough:

Emilio Gentile: A mass movement, that combines different classes, but is predominantly of the middle classes, which sees itself as having a mission of national regeneration, is in a state of war with its adversaries and seeks a monopoly of power by using terror, parliamentary tactics, and compromise to create a new regime, destroying democracy. Stanley Payne, Fascism: Comparison and Definition (Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 1980), p. 5 n.6

3. . Another early policy given high priority by the Nazi government was the organizing of all German businesses into cartels. The argument was that—in contrast to the disorderliness and egoism of free market capitalism—centralization and state control would increase efficiency and a sense of German unity. In July of 1933, membership in a cartel became compulsory for businesses, and by early 1934 the cartel structure was re-organized and placed firmly under the direction of the German government. Stephen Hicks, Ph.D. Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz

4.. . The popular meaning of nazism is controlled by the left, so its use appears as a cudgel to beat political opponents, as in the following versions:
a. Al Gore and the environmentalists imply same when they compare global-warming skeptics to Holocaust deniers.

b. Hollywood uses the term to mean ‘anything liberals don’t like.’

c. On NBC’s ‘West Wing’ support for school choice was labeled ‘fascist’.

d. Charlie Rangel claimed that the GOP’s 1994 Contract With America was more extreme than Nazism.

e. In 2000 President Clinton called the Texas GOP platform a ‘fascist tract.’
f. “…some on the left are dusting off the political vocabulary of the 1920's and 30's to describe policies of the Bush administration… ”The Latest Obscenity Has Seven Letters - NYTimes.com

g. NYTimes reporter Chris Hedges book: “American Fascists: The Christian Right…”

h. “Behind Israel's Neo-Nazi Violence” TIME

Should you need any further explanation...sorry I cannot aid in comprehension, I remain at your service.

 

[NYcarbineer]

NYC: Were the Nazis rightwing or not? It's a simple question. See if you can answer it with something at least in the general vicinity of a yes or no, and in the neighborhood of 1000 words or less.

PC: Left wing as they come

JakeStarkey: In fact, there were left and right wings, and the right put down the left in The Night of Long Knives.

Fascism was a rebellion against the liberal-democratic institutions and states that were on the rise after WW1. They were classicly conservative in the sense that they were trying to halt, and ultimately roll back, that which the progressives were pushing forward.

To call Nazis liberals is, ironically, an expert example of the use of a BIG LIE.

 

[JakeStarkey]

PC, please do not mindlessly chipmunk chatter on about the paradigm from left (statism) to right (freedom), because it is not a correct analysis of the specturn. The political compass (politicalcompass.com) model most accurately reflects the spectrum. I invite you to take it.

 

[rdean]

The disclosure appears in a new chapter to the paperback edition of my book “In the President’s Secret Service: Behind the Scenes With Agents in the Line of Fire and the Presidents They Protect,” which hits bookstores Aug. 3.

The hardcover edition reported that threats against Obama rose by as much as 400 percent compared with when President Bush was in office. Although threats fluctuate, the level continues to be at high enough levels to call for the threat task force. Many of the threats are from racists who have no connection with politics.

Death Threats Against Obama Rise!

Registered Republican hard right wing conservative Timothy McVeigh is second only to Bin Laden, who was let go and given a 9 year "head start".

 

[JakeStarkey]

NYC, the Nazis did have a socialist wing that believed in class warfare and a redistribution of wealth and the empowerment of the worker. Its leader was Ernst Julius Röhm, the head of the Sturmabteilung (SA), the Nazi militia until crushed by the right wing SS in 1934, at Hitler's direction. Here are some of his images, Images for Ernest Rohm http://www.google.com/images?q=Erne...tle&resnum=4&ved=0CDwQsAQwAw&biw=1199&bih=651

 

[NYcarbineer]

NYC, the Nazis did have a socialist wing that believed in class warfare and a redistribution of wealth and the empowerment of the worker. Its leader was Ernst Julius Röhm, the head of the Sturmabteilung (SA), the Nazi militia until crushed by the right wing SS in 1934, at Hitler's direction. Here are some of his images, Images for Ernest Rohm Ernest Rohm - Google Search

Yes I'm familiar with Rohm, but not the details of his views. I doubt he would qualify as a liberal in sum total.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Look him up and make your own judgment. Without the party had conservative and socialist wings in conflict for more than a decade.

 

[Political Junky]

While regularly wrong- although never in doubt, it is soooo very cute that your posts allow me the opportunity to puncture one left wing meme-balloon after another.
Kiss, kiss, hug, hug.

1. There was no Israel in the Nazi era...
Isn't it exhilarating when you learn something new?

2. Nazism was an offshoot of the same fascism that gave the world progressivism, environmenetalism, communism, and the other totalitarianisms.

a. The origins of Progressivism are to be found in Germany, as the early Progressives either studied in Germany, or had teachers who did so. Hegel’s views are primary here. This legacy included:

The state over the individual.
“As would be expected by the socialist part of National Socialism, the guiding principle of Nazi economics was that all property belongs to the people, the Volk, and was to be used only for the good of the people. Just as one’s body is no longer one’s private possession but rather belongs to the whole community, economic property was no longer anyone’s private possession but to be used by State permission and only for the good of the people.” Stephen Hicks, Ph.D. Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz

Did you know that the German translation of 'National Socialism' gave us the term 'nazi'?

b. [Goldberg] states that both modern liberalism and fascism descended from progressivism, and that prior to World War II, "fascism was widely viewed as a progressive social movement with many liberal and left-wing adherents in Europe and the United States".[2] Goldberg has told interviewers that the title Liberal Fascism comes "directly from a speech that H.G. Wells gave to the Young Liberals at Oxford in 1932."[3][4][5] Goldberg claims that Wells had stated that he wanted to "assist in a kind of phoenix rebirth" of liberalism as an "enlightened Nazism."
Liberal Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

c. ‘’’the title Liberal Fascism comes from a speech delivered by H. G. Wells, one of the most important and influential progressive and socialist intellectuals of the 20th century. He wanted to re-brand liberalism as “liberal fascism” and even “enlightened Nazism.” He believed these terms best described his own political views — views that deeply informed American progressivism and New Deal liberalism.
Basically, Wells believed parliamentary democracy is incapable of bringing about a proper political order. Only an authoritarian, technocratic elite can do so."
Liberal Fascism: Wings Over the World Edition — Crooked Timber


Pay careful attention to the line from c. above..."Wells believed parliamentary democracy is incapable of bringing about a proper political order."

This, my friend, is the very essence of the OP...Some members of the left, absorbing Well's ideas, go so far as to see political assassination as consistent with the religious ferver of their ideology.

...I can't thank you enough!

Incoherent rambling.

Were the Nazis rightwing or not? It's a simple question. See if you can answer it with something at least in the general vicinity of a yes or no, and in the neighborhood of 1000 words or less.

While an argument can be made that at it's extremes, the political spectrum forms a circle, where statism can be identified with both parties (an argument that you should have made), there is no conclusive benefit in taking that position...

Rather, the identifying feature that corrals all totalist views is the priority of the state over the individual...it is no accident that Nazi coins had the motto '“Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz" which means 'the common good before self interest.'

Now it remains for you to argue that the right, the Founders, the DoI, the Constitution is based on restricing the power of the state, in favor of the individual.

If you cannot do that, you lose: national socialism, nazism, is a left wing totalist philosophy.

Here a few nails for your coffin:

1. Fascism is a religion of the state. It is totalitarian in that it assumes everything is political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including the economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives. Any rival identity is defined as the enemy. American liberalism embodies all of these aspects of fascism. Jonah Goldberg, Liberal Fascism, p. 23

2. Although Stanley Payne's definition is far more detailed, Gentile's may be good enough:

Emilio Gentile: A mass movement, that combines different classes, but is predominantly of the middle classes, which sees itself as having a mission of national regeneration, is in a state of war with its adversaries and seeks a monopoly of power by using terror, parliamentary tactics, and compromise to create a new regime, destroying democracy. Stanley Payne, Fascism: Comparison and Definition (Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 1980), p. 5 n.6

3. . Another early policy given high priority by the Nazi government was the organizing of all German businesses into cartels. The argument was that—in contrast to the disorderliness and egoism of free market capitalism—centralization and state control would increase efficiency and a sense of German unity. In July of 1933, membership in a cartel became compulsory for businesses, and by early 1934 the cartel structure was re-organized and placed firmly under the direction of the German government. Stephen Hicks, Ph.D. Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz

4.. . The popular meaning of nazism is controlled by the left, so its use appears as a cudgel to beat political opponents, as in the following versions:
a. Al Gore and the environmentalists imply same when they compare global-warming skeptics to Holocaust deniers.

b. Hollywood uses the term to mean ‘anything liberals don’t like.’

c. On NBC’s ‘West Wing’ support for school choice was labeled ‘fascist’.

d. Charlie Rangel claimed that the GOP’s 1994 Contract With America was more extreme than Nazism.

e. In 2000 President Clinton called the Texas GOP platform a ‘fascist tract.’
f. “…some on the left are dusting off the political vocabulary of the 1920's and 30's to describe policies of the Bush administration… ”The Latest Obscenity Has Seven Letters - NYTimes.com

g. NYTimes reporter Chris Hedges book: “American Fascists: The Christian Right…”

h. “Behind Israel's Neo-Nazi Violence” TIME

Should you need any further explanation...sorry I cannot aid in comprehension, I remain at your service.

Citing Jonah Goldberg as an expert on anything is ludicrous.

 

[Political Junky]

"The Liberal State is a mask behind which there is no face; it is a scaffolding behind which there is no building."
Benito Mussolini

Hitler admired Mussolini and adopted much of his thinking. They were, after all, allies in WW2.

 

[rdean]

NYC, the Nazis did have a socialist wing that believed in class warfare and a redistribution of wealth and the empowerment of the worker. Its leader was Ernst Julius Röhm, the head of the Sturmabteilung (SA), the Nazi militia until crushed by the right wing SS in 1934, at Hitler's direction. Here are some of his images, Images for Ernest Rohm Ernest Rohm - Google Search

There has already been a redistribution of wealth.

In the 50s and 60s, the average CEO made 30 times the average worker. Today, they make 300 to 400 times the average worker. It's not uncommon for a CEO of a large corporation, for instance the head of Cigna, to get extreme bonuses. His last one was 73 million dollars. How many insurance policies did it take to pay for one 73 million dollar bonus?

More than 52% of the Bush tax cuts went to the top 1% of the nation.

Republicans are hard at work trying to move the cost of the Gulf clean up from BP to the American Middle Class.

Republicans worked with business to move jobs overseas. This has left a devastated Middle Class.

Republicans passed out no-bid contracts in Iraq to the tune of hundreds of billions to such corporations as "Halliburton" and "Blackwater".

So it's too late. The redistribution of wealth has already happened. I don't understand why Republicans are afraid of something they already did?

 

[LuckyDan]

Little leftist shits love to look back on the days when their daddies and grandaddies used to blow shit up and cripple people. Their heyday.

FUCK 'EM!

 

[Father Time]

"The popular meaning of nazism is controlled by the left"

Utterly absurd, next you're gonna tell us Godwin's law only applies to the left.

Listing times lefties called righties Nazis is not proof nor is it anything close to proof. For proof you'd need to show that righties don't resort to similar tactics and yet they do.

http://www.google.com/images?um=1&h...SgA&q=tea+party+nazi&spell=1&biw=1440&bih=719

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-12-2010/back-in-black---glenn-beck-s-nazi-tourette-s

 

[eots]

My fellow board member, Rinata, disputed this statement; "...you are unaware of the fact that it is the left that is typically and repeatedly responsible for actual violence in our society..."

One of those political themes, supported by the left-wing press, and readily believed by the easily-led, is that political violence is suckled in the bosom of right wing cabals…

Let’s investigate the veracity of this view.

1. The current spin:

a. There are more death threats aimed at President Obama: “At a congressional hearing into the White House security breach that took place last week, when Tareq and Michaele Salahi "crashed" the White House state dinner, Secret Service Director Mark Sullivan said the current threat level against the president is normal.

"The threats right now ... is the same level as it has been for the previous two presidents at this point in their administrations," Sullivan said. Secret Service: Threats Against Obama No Higher than Normal - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

b. McCain-Palin rallies? The Times Leader of Wilkes-Barre, Pa., reports that the Secret Service can find no evidence that anyone shouted “Kill him!” in reference to Barack Obama at a recent Palin event (via Little Green Footballs).
The story was originally reported by a competitor, the Scranton Times-Tribune, which is standing by its reporter, David Singleton:
Mr. Singleton said the remark came from his right, amid booing that followed Mr. Hackett’s mention of Mr. Obama.
“ very distinctly heard, ‘Kill him!’ Male voice,” he said. “It was definitely back in the back.”
Media Nation So what about those death threats?

c. During the Bush presidency, liberals had actually produced books and movies about the fantasy of President Bush being assassinated.

2. Historic review:
every presidential assassin in the history of the nation has been a liberal- or has not been associated with a political outlook- none were right-wingers.

a. John Wilkes Booth was opposed to President Lincoln’s Republican war policies. THE MURDERER OF MR. LINCOLN. - Extraordinary Letter of John Wilkes Booth Proof that He Meditated His Crime Months Ago His Excuses for the Contemplated Act His Participation in the Execution of John Brown. Commissioners of Public Charities and Correct

b. Charles J. Guiteau, who shot President James Garfield, was part of a utopian commune, the Oneida Community, where free love was practiced. Ackerman, “Dark Horse: The Surprise Election and Political Murder of President James A. Garfield,” p.135

c. Leon Czolgosz, who killed President McKinley, was a socialist and anarchist, whose act was instigated by a speech he heard by socialist Emma Goldman. American Experience | Emma Goldman | Transcript | PBS

d. John Schrank, who shot and wounded Teddy Roosevelt in 1912, seemed to have no affiliation other than opposition to a third term. Theodore Roosevelt shot in Milwaukee — History.com This Day in History — 10/14/1912

e. Giuseppe Zangara, who came close to killing President Roosevelt in 1933, (he killed Mayor Cermak) hated the rich and sought to “make even with the capitalists.” Franklin D. Roosevelt Assassination Attempt - FBI Freedom of Information Act Files - Miami Public Pages

f. Lee Harvey Oswald, who shot JFK, had been a communist ever since he read a communist pamphlet about the Rosenbergs.

g. Sirhan Sirhan, who killed Robert Kennedy, was a Palestinian who hated Kennedy’s support of Israel.

h. Arthur Bremer shot George Wallace in 1972, due to Wallace’s support for segregation. Arthur Bremer Biography from Basic Famous People - Biographies of Celebrities and other Famous People Upon his release, Bremer showed no remorse: “ ‘shooting segregationist dinosaurs’ is not like shooting people because ‘they are extinct by act of God.’ This mention of God was the only blemish on Bremer’s otherwise impeccable liberal credentials.” Coulter, “Guilty,” p. 260.

i. Lynette ‘Squeaky’ Fromme, tried to shoot President Ford because she was incensed about the plight of the California redwoods. Gerald Ford Oultived His Obituary Writer

j. Sara Jane Moore also tried to kill President Ford because “the government had declared war on the left.” Interview: Woman Who Tried To Assassinate Ford 1/03/07 | abc7news.com

k. John Hinckley shot President Reagan to impress a girl. The j/ury found him “not guilty by reason of insanity.” “”…which is as good a definition of liberalism as I’ve heard.” Coulter, “Guilty.” P. 260.

Welcome to the real world, Rinata.

golly ..its clear to see these left folk are an evil breed..but whats the final solution?

 

[bucs90]

NYC: Were the Nazis rightwing or not? It's a simple question. See if you can answer it with something at least in the general vicinity of a yes or no, and in the neighborhood of 1000 words or less.

PC: Left wing as they come

JakeStarkey: In fact, there were left and right wings, and the right put down the left in The Night of Long Knives.

No. The Nazis were NOT right wing. That is the biggest misconception the left wing has put out, and they've done a good job of it, as so many ignorant lefties breezed through college assuming the Nazis were the finished product of right wing ideals. Let me give you a brief history lesson:

The National SOCIALIST Party of Germany, aka the Nazis (SOCIALIST is purely left wing. See Newsweek "We are all Socialists now" after Obama election).

The National Socialist Party of Germany, led by Hitler. Hitler had views of purifying the human race to make room for the ultimate human in his mind, the pure German. He believed in the ideal of eugenics, a liberal brainchild traced back to Darwinism (liberalism) and Marxism (liberalism). While Hitler loathed some of the Jews of that time eugenics was concieved, he paid attention to the idea of cleansing humanity (which LIBERAL Ruth Ginsberg hoped abortion would achieve in the US but expressed her disappointment that it didn't). Hitler was student of eugenics. Liberal hero George Bernard Shaw, praised in universities to this day, proposed a "humane gas" to be invented that could exterminate unwanted humans for the good of the planet, and proposed this be made more comfortable with classical music. Obviously, Hitler was paying attention.

Hitler obviously believed in big government. Control of all aspects of the citizenship. He institued national healthcare to take total control of the body of citizens (Sound familiar?). He nationalized the banks and schools. Total control. Left wing big government.

He then moved on to the "Green movement". Yes, the green movement existed FAR before Al Gore came around, far before ice caps melting. The root of the green movement can be traced back to this time and eugenics. A way of training the minds of the people at accept natural cleansing......then progress into the final cleansing of the planet: Unwanted people. Hitler made a foundation of his Hitler Youth and the Brown Shirts to be the green movement. He wanted them to begin thinking in terms of "cleansing" the Earth. First with less pollution, clean roads, clean homes, then clean eating, and so on, until the final turn was to perfect the clean planet by cleaning the unwanted people. In FACT, Hitler did not initially plan for the Jews to be killed, gassed, cooked. The original plan was to simply warehouse the Jews until his green cleansing movement caused the people to accept the extermination. But the SS and officers running the camps were quickly running out of food, water, shelter, and sickness was spreading. The initial exterminations were carried out not by Hitlers orders, but by necessity.

Anyway, Hitler's genocide is similar to the mass murders carried out by other modern nations and leaders of the past century: USSR, China, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Vietnam, Stalin, Lenin, Che, Pol Pot, Mao (who Obama's admin admires), Castro, Chavez, Jong Ill, Vietcong, etc, etc, etc, and ALL are left wing socialist, communist, and so on.

And thus is the misguided view that the National Socialist Party of Germany was somehow a right wing movement. Right wing ideology, at it's extreme right, is anarchy. Lack of government, Wild West or worse. NOT a good thing either. But never mistake it for the far left opposite, which is total government tyranny as the examples I listed above.

Having an intensity level that one would associate with being right wing does not make the Nazi party a right wing movement, when EVERY characteristic is displayed is a left of center ideal.

I know thats a lot of culture shock for you libs who've assumed Hitler was just a German Republican all these years, but the truth is the truth. Your professor lied. Nazism isn't the extreme of the right, it's the extreme of the left, installed with pure hate and intense military power. The extreme right of the spectrum is anarchy with no government and survival of the fittest.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The answer here to Bucs needs be very short. Reactionaries want to revise history and typify liberal and conservative (right and left), with a new set of belief-structures. These new belief-structures allow redefinitions of critical concepts so that they can create a new paradigm that models their political biases. The great weakness of the reactionary right is to envision a paradigm running linearly from left (authoritarian) to right (freedom).

One way to understand PC and buscs is to go take the quiz at The Political Compass - Test to see where you fit in the modern political paradigm. This paradigm supplants the linear model.

 

[bucs90]

The answer here to Bucs needs be very short. Reactionaries want to revise history and typify liberal and conservative (right and left), with a new set of belief-structures. These new belief-structures allow redefinitions of critical concepts so that they can create a new paradigm that models their political biases. The great weakness of the reactionary right is to envision a paradigm running linearly from left (authoritarian) to right (freedom).

One way to understand PC and buscs is to go take the quiz at The Political Compass - Test to see where you fit in the modern political paradigm. This paradigm supplants the linear model.

I'll start by saying those statements I posted are fact. I don't profess to know much about stuff that I don't know much about. Cars, women, computers, foreign language, medicine, I have no clue. Football, guns, law enforcement, WW2 history (my hobby), I do. And what I posted is all factually accurate.

Now, you said we have tried on the right to define the paradigm of left (authoritarian) to right (freedom). I disagree. The paradigm going totally right does not equal freedom. It equals anarchy, survival of the fittest. Thats NOT good, and it's NOT freedom. Freedom includes a relative freedom from fear. For a female to go for an early morning jog before work without worrying about getting raped. Thats freedom. Total right anarchy does not allow that. And I strongly oppose libertarian rightwingers who want absolute no government, as that would not work.

Freedom also includes being free to let your teenager drive his car to school for the first time alone, without worrying that some jackasses are gonna be drag racing on the public street and kill your kid. A small, responsible government is necessary for that freedom to exist. Absolute freedom would create crippling fear also. Thats why the right appreciates cops and soldiers so much more than most of the left, because we know our ideal society wouldn't be possible without cops and soldiers to enforce these common sense laws regarding personal safety. As for some of the insane statutes that have been made law also, well, thats another thread.

For my favorite way to describe this, is an analogy to health:

Far left ideology is like cancer. It creeps in, slowly and steadily, eating away at the body. Symptoms grow slowly more painful, until one day, it's totally taken over and death is unavoidable.

Far right ideology is like a massive heart attack. It all collapses at once, panic ensues, chaos follows, and survivability is basically a roll of the dice.

Neither is good. We are always in the 50% +/- 10% range to the right or left, but always creeping one way or another. Currently, our government is creeping left at an ever increasing pace. Thats bad. Just as it would be bad if a far right president came in and began slashing police departments, highway maintenance and fire departments just for the sake of small government.

Just don't treat our cancer by saying a heart attack would be worse. Treat the damn cancer.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bucs90 weak analysis reveals his error, the America "cancer" in fact being the far reactionary right.

I encourage all to take the assessment at The Political Compass - Test and see if it matches generally one's perceived self-analysis with the model.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Incoherent rambling.

Were the Nazis rightwing or not? It's a simple question. See if you can answer it with something at least in the general vicinity of a yes or no, and in the neighborhood of 1000 words or less.

While an argument can be made that at it's extremes, the political spectrum forms a circle, where statism can be identified with both parties (an argument that you should have made), there is no conclusive benefit in taking that position...

Rather, the identifying feature that corrals all totalist views is the priority of the state over the individual...it is no accident that Nazi coins had the motto '“Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz" which means 'the common good before self interest.'

Now it remains for you to argue that the right, the Founders, the DoI, the Constitution is based on restricing the power of the state, in favor of the individual.

If you cannot do that, you lose: national socialism, nazism, is a left wing totalist philosophy.

Here a few nails for your coffin:

1. Fascism is a religion of the state. It is totalitarian in that it assumes everything is political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including the economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives. Any rival identity is defined as the enemy. American liberalism embodies all of these aspects of fascism. Jonah Goldberg, Liberal Fascism, p. 23

2. Although Stanley Payne's definition is far more detailed, Gentile's may be good enough:

Emilio Gentile: A mass movement, that combines different classes, but is predominantly of the middle classes, which sees itself as having a mission of national regeneration, is in a state of war with its adversaries and seeks a monopoly of power by using terror, parliamentary tactics, and compromise to create a new regime, destroying democracy. Stanley Payne, Fascism: Comparison and Definition (Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 1980), p. 5 n.6

3. . Another early policy given high priority by the Nazi government was the organizing of all German businesses into cartels. The argument was that—in contrast to the disorderliness and egoism of free market capitalism—centralization and state control would increase efficiency and a sense of German unity. In July of 1933, membership in a cartel became compulsory for businesses, and by early 1934 the cartel structure was re-organized and placed firmly under the direction of the German government. Stephen Hicks, Ph.D. Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz

4.. . The popular meaning of nazism is controlled by the left, so its use appears as a cudgel to beat political opponents, as in the following versions:
a. Al Gore and the environmentalists imply same when they compare global-warming skeptics to Holocaust deniers.

b. Hollywood uses the term to mean ‘anything liberals don’t like.’

c. On NBC’s ‘West Wing’ support for school choice was labeled ‘fascist’.

d. Charlie Rangel claimed that the GOP’s 1994 Contract With America was more extreme than Nazism.

e. In 2000 President Clinton called the Texas GOP platform a ‘fascist tract.’
f. “…some on the left are dusting off the political vocabulary of the 1920's and 30's to describe policies of the Bush administration… ”The Latest Obscenity Has Seven Letters - NYTimes.com

g. NYTimes reporter Chris Hedges book: “American Fascists: The Christian Right…”

h. “Behind Israel's Neo-Nazi Violence” TIME

Should you need any further explanation...sorry I cannot aid in comprehension, I remain at your service.

Citing Jonah Goldberg as an expert on anything is ludicrous.

This is really a junior varsity level of rebuttal...how about counter citations.