WA School Mistaken: Satan Group Is A Hate Group & Can't Use Campus Therefore

[Montrovant]

^^ When I answered you plainly, flatly and nailed your ass, you argue that psychological damage to a child for the religion they practice (by the Satanists announcing their intent was to malign other religions and those who have them in their hearts) isn't real damage to a child. You're all heart. Are you sure you're not a lawyer?

I know about hurting children and the laws that keep them from physical AND psychological harm. Apparently you interpret your own unfamiliarity with them as "they don't exist if Monty doesn't understand those laws"... But they do exist Monty....they do...federally too. In fact, if a school doesn't act to protect the psychological well being of a child, it can lose federal funding via CAPTA laws. Hows that for a pickle for the Satanist group?

You answered me by plainly lying. You do that a lot.

The Satanists did not announce " their intent was to malign other religions and those who have them in their hearts". They announced that they fight against religious oppression and tyranny.

I would argue that most religions have tenets which could be considered damaging, including Christianity. That doesn't mean religious groups cannot have access to schools.

You have wildly inaccurate interpretations of the law. You've been shown this over and over again. None of your legal predictions has come true. Not a single one. None of the tripe you spout off as legitimate legal interpretations are ever actually used in a courtroom, let alone successfully used. You were asked about a law or laws which designate the Satanic Temple of Seattle as a hate group, and instead you linked to a hate crime law, which is not the same thing. Moreover, the hate crime law does not even apply to the Satanic Temple as they have neither physically harmed a person or persons, destroyed property, nor threatened anyone (at least based on the article in the OP).

Can you provide a single example of the hate crime law you linked to being used in court to label a group a 'hate group' and deny them access to a public school? I'm willing to bet the answer is no.

Your constant attempts to try to shoehorn existing laws into whatever ridiculous agenda you happen to be pushing are amusing.

 

[OldLady]

They certainly have the right to form a club and the right to use school property as any other club is allowed to do. However, since they are stating up front that they really aren't a 'Satan Worshipping group' but are instead forming as a kind of 'fake' Satan Worshipping group to force school districts to either stop giving preferential treatment to religious groups or afford all groups the same treatment, they may have a tough time if it goes to court. I think even a 'fake' SW group should have equal access as it is just a club like any religious group on campus would be, but this MAY be a gray area the court could rule against them.

And you have to admit, it is really almost like a year-round Halloweener group, and the horns look awesome!

Their motives are kinda EVIL, imo. Stirring the pot for no practical reason, except to spread the stink.

 

[Silhouette]

Their motives are kinda EVIL, imo. Stirring the pot for no practical reason, except to spread the stink.

...and to foster a climate of intolerance or bullying of children of religious faith on the playground... They said this was their intent: to malign religions except their own of course....

 

[Montrovant]

Their motives are kinda EVIL, imo. Stirring the pot for no practical reason, except to spread the stink.

...and to foster a climate of intolerance or bullying of children of religious faith on the playground... They said this was their intent: to malign religions except their own of course....

They didn't say that. You are lying again.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Someone needs to start a group called 'Church of Lucifer's Reconciliation and Holy Grace'. Their goal is to get Lucifer to apologize to 'god' and have 'god' forgive him and allow him back into heaven, thus ending all misery on Earth for humans . Of course it would mean the end of sex and murder, so people will have to find new hobbies like watching the grass in the Garden of Eden grow. But, since Lucifer is no longer a snake in a tree there will be no more temptation. Eve will be free to bake apple pies naked. All tv preachers will be out of a job and have to give the money back, yeah bummer for them. All the gigantic churches will be turned into sports arenas, though with no conflict everyone wins every game. All the racists will have to give that up or swim in lava for eternity (trump supporters are resisting this part of the platform).

Best of all we'll get to ask 'god' all those questions that have been burning in everyone's mind:

"Why in Nascar races do they only turn left? Can't they just race the other way once in a while to change it up?"
"How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?"
"Why were the drinks at Orange Julius so good if their logo was a devil?"
"Do you really just not like the Chicago Cubs?"
"Locusts, tornadoes, earthquakes...but sinkholes? What was the thought process there? 'Let me add one where they'll just disappear into a hole in the ground that swallows them up'. Yeah? A little overkill wouldn't you say?"
"You build mountains, and then you slowly tear them down. Bored? You don't have a huge Jenga set there?"
"No joke, how exactly did Mary get pregnant?"
"So all knowing...you didn't see that whole devil snake thing ahead of time?"
"The shart; were you being funny or is the rectum just not your best engineering work?"
"How could they build the pyramids 4,500 years ago and they are still standing but we build a bridge 50 years ago and it falls down in the middle of rush hour?"

 

[FA_Q2]

Legitimate purpose? Who decides what purpose is legitimate, you?

Fill in the blanks? Well, sure, if you want to just fill in your own ideas about what the group is about, then you can say they are about anything.

They're agenda is to stop Christian groups. And from doing what? Holding Bible studies? Praying around the flag pole? They are shit disturbers with a sinister agenda.

Irrelevant. You are not the arbiter of what constitutes a 'legitimate' reason. They have legitimate reasons to gather in their own mind. Would you want them to be the arbiter of weather or not the local Roman Catholic group had a legitimate reason to gather? Of course not - your reasons for faith, community or fellowship are your own and not for anyone to judge outside of your own group.

You find their existence illegitimate (and I can kind of agree) but all that means is that you have no interest at joining them.

Roman Catholic groups don't meet in order to cause an uproar to get other groups shut down. That's where your argument falls to pieces faster than a Michael Moore diet.

No, you have avoided the points made entirely. Try again.

Not really, and that's the second time you tried to make that lame excuse to cover the void left by your vapid arguments.

I have made no excuses at all as you avoid the point entirely. you still have not answered the question:

Would you want them to be the arbiter of weather or not the local Roman Catholic group had a legitimate reason to gather?

what I can grantee is that governmental power will not always be in the hands of those that agree with you or even those that are reasonable. If you allow outside forces to determine what constitutes a 'legitimate' gathering then you will eventually find yourself on the wrong side of that power. The only arbiter that is proper is those people themselves - that is what freedom actually looks like. As long as they do not cross into infringing on others rights they can gather and use the same access rights we all enjoy.

 

[Silhouette]

Their motives are kinda EVIL, imo. Stirring the pot for no practical reason, except to spread the stink.

...and to foster a climate of intolerance or bullying of children of religious faith on the playground... They said this was their intent: to malign religions except their own of course....

They didn't say that. You are lying again.

They're a hate group and they announced themselves as such. Calling all other religions "tyrannical and oppressive", you think they meant "we'll teach kids to treat religious kids nicely!" BULLSHIT. Have I mentioned how deceitful you are?

 

[Montrovant]

Their motives are kinda EVIL, imo. Stirring the pot for no practical reason, except to spread the stink.

...and to foster a climate of intolerance or bullying of children of religious faith on the playground... They said this was their intent: to malign religions except their own of course....

They didn't say that. You are lying again.

They're a hate group and they announced themselves as such. Calling all other religions "tyrannical and oppressive", you think they meant "we'll teach kids to treat religious kids nicely!" BULLSHIT. Have I mentioned how deceitful you are?

They didn't say all other religions are tyrannical and oppressive. Did you even read your own OP? Once again, here's the actual quote, "“We don’t worship a deity,” he said. “We only see Satan as a metaphor for fighting religious tyranny and oppression.”".

I'll ask you this question again because you didn't respond the first time. If a group says they fight against government tyranny and oppression, does that mean that group believes all governments are tyrannical and oppressive?

You should run for president, you certainly lie often enough.

 

[Silhouette]

“We only see Satan as a metaphor for fighting religious tyranny and oppression.”".

I'll ask you this question again because you didn't respond the first time. If a group says they fight against government tyranny and oppression, does that mean that group believes all governments are tyrannical and oppressive?

A. They're applying for campus use based on a lie then; they're not really Satanists are they? Strike one...

B. Their message, lacking specifics, reads as a generalized slam against the religious (kids on the playground). Which is also an incitement of intolerance on school grounds. Strikes two and three...

C. The government isn't a person or group of people subject to anti-bullying laws.

 

[Montrovant]

“We only see Satan as a metaphor for fighting religious tyranny and oppression.”".

I'll ask you this question again because you didn't respond the first time. If a group says they fight against government tyranny and oppression, does that mean that group believes all governments are tyrannical and oppressive?

A. They're applying for campus use based on a lie then; they're not really Satanists are they? Strike one...

B. Their message, lacking specifics, reads as a generalized slam against the religious (kids on the playground). Which is also an incitement of intolerance on school grounds. Strikes two and three...

C. The government isn't a person or group of people subject to anti-bullying laws.

A. They are the Satanic Temple of Seattle. What does or does not constitute a Satanist is not really a relevant question, but they are Satanists in the vein of Anton LeVay and the Satanic Bible.

B. They don't agree with religion based on the supernatural. So? What is this "incitement of intolerance on school grounds" crap? Nearly every religion treats itself as the one, true religion and all others as wrong. Does every religion incite intolerance?

C. Way to once again dodge the question.

 

[Silhouette]

“We only see Satan as a metaphor for fighting religious tyranny and oppression.”".

I'll ask you this question again because you didn't respond the first time. If a group says they fight against government tyranny and oppression, does that mean that group believes all governments are tyrannical and oppressive?

A. They're applying for campus use based on a lie then; they're not really Satanists are they? Strike one...

B. Their message, lacking specifics, reads as a generalized slam against the religious (kids on the playground). Which is also an incitement of intolerance on school grounds. Strikes two and three...

C. The government isn't a person or group of people subject to anti-bullying laws.

A. They are the Satanic Temple of Seattle. What does or does not constitute a Satanist is not really a relevant question, but they are Satanists in the vein of Anton LeVay and the Satanic Bible.

B. They don't agree with religion based on the supernatural. So? What is this "incitement of intolerance on school grounds" crap? Nearly every religion treats itself as the one, true religion and all others as wrong. Does every religion incite intolerance?

C. Way to once again dodge the question.

A. It does if you're trying to gain access to a school by an authentic group.

B. That's kind of mild Monty. What they said was that they found religion (the religious) "tyrannical and oppressive". That's translating to "we are teaching intolerance of the religious by our essence."

C. Better than missing the question completely, pretending you don't understand the rhetorical answer..

 

[Syriusly]

So much for religious freedom and our constitution.

You are the people who want religion in schools. Conservatives are the ones who went to court to be able to have religious clubs and prayers said on school grounds and at school functions. Well our constitution says that what one group can do, all groups can do. You brought this on yourselves by your constant forcing your religion on our nation.

Yep. Except teaching kids to hate other religions is disallowed on public property.

Silhouette- still creating her own laws

 

[Silhouette]

Silhouette- still creating her own laws

Well I didn't create the decision in Hively v Ivy Tech (7th circuit, 2016) which Ruled that sexual orientation isn't protected under the 1964 Civil Rights Act... Enumerated things like race, gender and religion are specified. Just not aberrant behaviors like homosexuality, bulimia, cleptomania, drug addiction, etc...

What do you think of the Three Strikes I mentioned against the "Satanists" in post #171?

 

[Silhouette]

They're agenda is to stop Christian groups. And from doing what? Holding Bible studies? Praying around the flag pole? They are shit disturbers with a sinister agenda.

You could say all that and they'd still get on campus. But if you say "they promote intolerance of religious children on school grounds" you actually have a means to keep them off campus instead of just being angry about them being there. One is just venting. The other is legally doing something about it to prevent it from happening.

The group announced their intent was to instill intolerance for all religions (except theirs of course) calling them generally "tyrannical and oppressive". So little Jimmy or Janie on the playground wearing the cross around their necks will hear the words "our after school group says you're not thinking right so we're not playing with you!" And that's how child psychology works. The "Satanists" know it too. Only, bullying or fostering disdain of one child for another type of child isn't allowed on school grounds. It damages children proximately. So it's in violation of Washington State Law.

 

[Montrovant]

“We only see Satan as a metaphor for fighting religious tyranny and oppression.”".

I'll ask you this question again because you didn't respond the first time. If a group says they fight against government tyranny and oppression, does that mean that group believes all governments are tyrannical and oppressive?

A. They're applying for campus use based on a lie then; they're not really Satanists are they? Strike one...

B. Their message, lacking specifics, reads as a generalized slam against the religious (kids on the playground). Which is also an incitement of intolerance on school grounds. Strikes two and three...

C. The government isn't a person or group of people subject to anti-bullying laws.

A. They are the Satanic Temple of Seattle. What does or does not constitute a Satanist is not really a relevant question, but they are Satanists in the vein of Anton LeVay and the Satanic Bible.

B. They don't agree with religion based on the supernatural. So? What is this "incitement of intolerance on school grounds" crap? Nearly every religion treats itself as the one, true religion and all others as wrong. Does every religion incite intolerance?

C. Way to once again dodge the question.

A. It does if you're trying to gain access to a school by an authentic group.

B. That's kind of mild Monty. What they said was that they found religion (the religious) "tyrannical and oppressive". That's translating to "we are teaching intolerance of the religious by our essence."

C. Better than missing the question completely, pretending you don't understand the rhetorical answer..

A. No, it does not. You can say that Catholics aren't actually Christians (something I've heard many times before) but that doesn't mean Catholic groups aren't allowed access to school facilities if they call themselves a Christian group. That you don't think the Satanic Temple is truly Satanist is irrelevant to this issue.

B. You are lying, for the umpteenth time. What the spokesperson for the Satanic Temple said, as quoted in your OP, was this, "We don’t worship a deity,” he said. “We only see Satan as a metaphor for fighting religious tyranny and oppression." I realize you have trouble with the English language, but that is not the same as saying all religion and religious people are tyrannical and oppressive.

And again, you could just as easily say that nearly every religion teaches intolerance of all other religions. Nearly every religion claims to be the one, true religion, thereby saying all other religions are wrong and the people who believe those other religions are wrong. You won't apply the same reasoning to other religions, though, will you?

C. How can I miss the question? I asked the question! If a group says they fight against government tyranny and oppression, does that mean that group believes all governments are tyrannical and oppressive? I'm trying to see if you are consistent in your reasoning or if you only apply this particular reasoning to the Satanic Temple.

 

[Montrovant]

They're agenda is to stop Christian groups. And from doing what? Holding Bible studies? Praying around the flag pole? They are shit disturbers with a sinister agenda.

You could say all that and they'd still get on campus. But if you say "they promote intolerance of religious children on school grounds" you actually have a means to keep them off campus instead of just being angry about them being there. One is just venting. The other is legally doing something about it to prevent it from happening.

The group announced their intent was to instill intolerance for all religions (except theirs of course) calling them generally "tyrannical and oppressive". So little Jimmy or Janie on the playground wearing the cross around their necks will hear the words "our after school group says you're not thinking right so we're not playing with you!" And that's how child psychology works. The "Satanists" know it too. Only, bullying or fostering disdain of one child for another type of child isn't allowed on school grounds. It damages children proximately. So it's in violation of Washington State Law.

Repeating your lie enough times will not make it true. The group said, "We only see Satan as a metaphor for fighting religious tyranny and oppression." They did not say all other religions are tyrannical and oppressive.

 

[Silhouette]

So they see themselves as a metaphor for "fighting religious tyranny and oppression". And how exactly is this not going to translate to teaching the kids attending their club to disdain religious children? It's going to foster intolerance and, therefore, bullying.

 

[Montrovant]

So they see themselves as a metaphor for "fighting religious tyranny and oppression". And how exactly is this not going to translate to teaching the kids attending their club to disdain religious children? It's going to foster intolerance and, therefore, bullying.

How many times must I post the same quote, which you put in the OP, before you actually read and comprehend it? "We only see Satan as a metaphor for fighting religious tyranny and oppression."

Do you think that a club for fans of the Washington Redskins shouldn't be allowed? After all, they are going to teach the kids attending disdain for fans of other NFL teams, which will lead to intolerance and, therefore, bullying.

Do you think a group devoted to PC gamers shouldn't be allowed? After all, they are going to teach the kids attending disdain for console gamers, which will lead to intolerance and, therefore, bullying.

Do you think that a Republican group shouldn't be allowed? After all, they are going to teach the kids attending disdain for followers of other political parties, which will lead to intolerance and, therefore, bullying.

Do you see the ridiculousness of your argument yet?

 

[Silhouette]

NFL teams don't refer to each other as "tyrannical and oppressive". They made a mistake in their intro. They fucked up. And because they did, they can be banned from campus.

Come back under another shroud? Cuz they shot their wad on this blunder..

 

[Montrovant]

NFL teams don't refer to each other as "tyrannical and oppressive". They made a mistake in their intro. They fucked up. And because they did, they can be banned from campus.

Come back under another shroud? Cuz they shot their wad on this blunder..

As expected, you completely missed the point.

No, they can't be banned from campus because you don't like them, which is what this boils down to.