Want gun control? Fight smart.

[DrLove]

Though David Brooks is one of the last sane Republicans .. the time has come to MARCH!

“Amal and I are so inspired by the courage and eloquence of these young men and women from Stoneman Douglas High School,” Clooney said in a statement. “Our family will be there on March 24 to stand side by side with this incredible generation of young people from all over the country, and in the name of our children Ella and Alexander, we’re donating 500,000 dollars to help pay for this groundbreaking event. Our children’s lives depend on it.”​

Follow in the steps of George Clooney - DONATE!

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[Auld Phart]

It's the interpretation I learned over 55 years ago, in junior high.

Tell me, just to satisfy my curiosity, did you also learn America was a republic and not a democracy in that same institution?

Does that have anything to do with the debate, or is it just an attempt to derail?

 

[2aguy]

Though David Brooks is one of the last sane Republicans .. the time has come to MARCH!

“Amal and I are so inspired by the courage and eloquence of these young men and women from Stoneman Douglas High School,” Clooney said in a statement. “Our family will be there on March 24 to stand side by side with this incredible generation of young people from all over the country, and in the name of our children Ella and Alexander, we’re donating 500,000 dollars to help pay for this groundbreaking event. Our children’s lives depend on it.”​

Follow in the steps of George Clooney - DONATE!

Home

And what will they be marching for exactly? What law will they want that would have stopped the shooting?

Oh......they don't want anything useful....they want to get together and make noise.....


Thanks.

 

[cnm]

If it was a democracy, Hillary would have won. It's a representative republic.

Thanks for confirming you're as trite as you appeared.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/democracy

democracy
A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.​

 

[cnm]

Does that have anything to do with the debate, or is it just an attempt to derail?

I said it was for my curiosity. To see whether you were consistently taught incorrect interpretations, as was the trite one.

 

[Auld Phart]

the right is for the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms

Because a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state. Why are you scared of admitting that?

Because it doesn't.
Militia Act of 1903

'militias' became the National Guard.

Militias, as a whole, no longer exist.

But, somehow, the 2nd does.

Why wasn't the 2nd removed 100 years ago?

 

[Auld Phart]

Does that have anything to do with the debate, or is it just an attempt to derail?

I said it was for my curiosity. To see whether you were consistently taught incorrect interpretations, as was the trite one.

To see whether you were consistently taught incorrect interpretations

Like you were?

 

[cnm]

Because it doesn't.

The 2nd Amendement, on which you are depending, says it does.

 

[cnm]

Like you were?

No way. I knew and know what constitutes a democracy.

 

[Auld Phart]

Because it doesn't.

The 2nd Amendement, on which you are depending, says it does.

no, it gives the Right to the people, not the Militia.

Comprehension not your strong point?

 

[OldLady]

Gun control is such a typically trite and meaningless prog solution to a serious problem. Only the law abiding citizen will follow these laws, old and new. The end result is that only criminals will have guns.

The end result might also be that someone like Cruz would not have the gun he just used to kill 17 people.

 

[cnm]

So, anyway, if you want gun control you're going to have to raise enough money to buy off your politicians. Simple.

 

[Auld Phart]

Gun control is such a typically trite and meaningless prog solution to a serious problem. Only the law abiding citizen will follow these laws, old and new. The end result is that only criminals will have guns.

The end result might also be that someone like Cruz would not have the gun he just used to kill 17 people.

and he shouldn't have.

but the failure started locally, went to state, and then to the FBI.

If they aren't doing their jobs, how can an employee at a gun store stop them?

Same with the guy that shot up the church in Texas.

Air Force failed to list him as a felon, so NICS did not have him on their list.

 

[cnm]

it gives the Right to the people, not the Militia.

Because a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state. It says that right in the Constitution. I don't know why you're scared of admitting that.

 

[OldLady]

I was going to compose a letter to these young whippersnappers today, telling them that they are the voice of hope, but only if they refrain from the usual screeching and name calling and hyperbolic empty rhetoric that passes for political "debate" these days. I didn't have to write it--David Brooks already did.
I wanted to share it with all of you, and hope/wish you will all read it and think about it.

DAVID BROOKS

Respect First, Then Gun Control
Image

Students and family members gathered at a makeshift memorial for the victims of last week’s school shooting in Parkland, Fla.CreditMark Wilson/Getty Images North America
Image

By David Brooks

Feb. 19, 2018
This has been an emotional week. We greet tragedies like the school shooting in Florida with shock, sadness, mourning and grief that turns into indignation and rage. The anger inevitably gets directed at the N.R.A., those who support gun rights, and the politicians who refuse to do anything while children die.

Many of us walked this emotional path. But we may end up doing more harm than good. If there’s one thing we’ve learned, it is that guns have become a cultural flash point in a nation that is unequal and divided. The people who defend gun rights believe that snobbish elites look down on their morals and want to destroy their culture. If we end up telling such people that they and their guns are despicable, they will just despise us back and dig in their heels.

So if you want to stop school shootings it’s not enough just to vent and march. It’s necessary to let people from Red America lead the way, and to show respect to gun owners at all points. There has to be trust and respect first. Then we can strike a compromise on guns as guns, and not some sacred cross in the culture war.

So I’ve been thinking about a group that’s in the trust and respect business. Better Angels is a nonprofit led by David Lapp, David Blankenhorn and a prominent family therapist, Bill Doherty. The team members travel from town to town finding members of the Red and Blue Tribes and bringing them together for long, humbling conversations.

My Times colleague April Lawson has gotten involved with Better Angels and has been reporting back on its techniques.

One of the most successful parts of the structured conversations is built around stereotypes. Doherty, the head moderator, asks the people at each gathering to name five major stereotypes that the other side throws at them. The Republicans invariably list “racist” first, followed by, say, “uncaring,” “uneducated,” “misogynistic” and “science deniers.”


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In a session Lawson attended, a Trump supporter acknowledged that the G.O.P. has had a spotty record on racial matters, but it’s important to him that Blues know that’s not why he holds his opinions.

Doherty says that the Reds feel shamed by the Blues to a much greater degree than the Blues realize. Reds are very reluctant to enter into a conversation with Blues, for fear of further shaming, but they often come to the table when they are told that this will be a chance to “de-monsterize” themselves.

At that session one Blue said she was really grateful to hear a Red acknowledge the Republican history on race. When Blues are asked about the stereotypes thrown at them, they tend to list “against religion and morality,” “unpatriotic” and “against personal responsibility” among their responses. They, too, relish the chance to clear the air.

After the stereotypes are discussed, the room feels different. As one Red in Ohio told Lawson, “I think we are all pretty clear on one thing: Don’t tell us who we are and what we think.” Another Red was moved almost to tears by the damage categories do. “We’re not just cookie-cutter people; we’re individuals. Just because you don’t like something, you don’t have to ridicule it — you probably don’t understand it,” she said. “When someone’s heart is full up with something, and then you demean it without even listening to them — I hate that.”

The discussions reveal other sensitivities. Some Blues didn’t want to enter a venue that had a “Don’t Tread on Me” flag on the wall. To Reds that was a neutral flag from American history, but to Blues it carried all sorts of nasty associations. Reds were offended by the lawn signs that said, “Hate Has No Home Here.” The implication: Hate has no home in my house, but it does in yours.

In another exercise, Reds and Blues ask each other honest, nonleading questions. Blues may ask Reds, “Name a safety-net program you can support.” Reds may ask Blues, “How do you balance having a heart with keeping health care costs under control?”

By the end of the conversations, the atmosphere has changed. Nearly always somebody will say that the discussion was easy because only moderates were in the room, not the people who post crazy stuff on Facebook. The staff tries not to smile, knowing that some of the people were selected precisely because of the intense stuff they posted on Facebook.

“This is not a civility organization,” Blankenhorn told Lawson. Better Angels is aiming to build a group of people whose personal bonds with their fellow citizens redefine how they engage in the political system.

We don’t really have policy debates anymore. We have one big tribal conflict, and policy fights are just proxy battles as each side tries to establish moral superiority. But just as the tribal mentality has been turned on, it can be turned off. Then and only then can we go back to normal politics and take reasonable measures to keep our children safe.


Michelle Goldberg is off today.

Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook and Twitter (@NYTopinion), and sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter.

A version of this article appears in print on February 20, 2018, on Page A19 of the New York edition with the headline: Respect First, Then Gun Control. Order Reprints | Today’s Paper | Subscribe

Forget all that. Just vote. All they have to do is vote. Protests don't do shit if you don't vote.

In 1976, one of the first elections in which 18-year-olds were able to vote, 18-24 year-olds made up 18 percent of all eligible voters in America, but only 13 percent actually voted - an under-representation of one-third.

In the next election in 1978, youth were under-represented by 50 percent. “Seven out of ten young people…did not vote in the 1996 presidential election… 20 percent below the general turnout”.

In 1998, out of the 13 percent of eligible youth voters in America, only five percent voted.

During the competitive presidential race of 2000, 36 percent of youth turned out to vote and in 2004, the “banner year in the history of youth voting,” 47 percent of the American youth voted.

Recently, in the 2008 U.S. Presidential election, the number of youth voters tripled and even quadrupled in some states compared to the 2004 elections.

But then they didn't show up in 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016.

Based on these numbers what percent do you think will vote in 2018 and 2020?

Part of the point of my OP is that I sense immaturity and a popular issue, which should be no surprise since they are kids. If their voices keep the debate alive, though, among the grown ups, for even a month, it will have been useful.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

You sick pos want to strip the guns
strip the free speech
no due process
no constitution leaving us the only right we have left is to DIE why you are pathetic losers so freaking dumbed down and moronic you can see this
Chip away, chip away, chip away.

YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR 2ND AMENDMENT LOSERS.....


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why you are pathetic losers so freaking dumbed down and moronic

Because?

 

[OldLady]

I would love to know what law would have stopped that kid from shooting up the school.

The law that says a person can't buy a hand gun until they are 21, should have included semi automatics like the AR15.

And when the guy turned 21.....then what, genius....most mass shooters are older than 21.....moron.

Enough, Guy. Go back and read the OP and try to use a modicum of respect.

 

[Marion Morrison]

AR 15 s Are not hunting long guns

I beg to differ

.223 is an excellent hunting round.

Yet I have not met a hunter yet who hunts with one, even if they own one.

Come down to my neck of the woods

I'm serious, TN. I even asked at the local diner this a.m. I know a shit load of hunters, and not all of them live in Maine.

That's because bigger, heavier bullets kill deer quicker, easier, and more humanely.

I would use .223 on deer, if I was going for headshots only. Dem little bitty bullets, eh. I've been thinking about getting a longer-barrel bolt .223 with a mag
due to cheapness of ammo+range.

 

[OldLady]

Gun control is such a typically trite and meaningless prog solution to a serious problem. Only the law abiding citizen will follow these laws, old and new. The end result is that only criminals will have guns.

The end result might also be that someone like Cruz would not have the gun he just used to kill 17 people.

and he shouldn't have.

but the failure started locally, went to state, and then to the FBI.

If they aren't doing their jobs, how can an employee at a gun store stop them?

Same with the guy that shot up the church in Texas.

Air Force failed to list him as a felon, so NICS did not have him on their list.

You're right. A lot of people have a lot of good ideas, and you've just put your finger on one of them. The Cornyn bill would improve things.

 

[OldLady]

Though David Brooks is one of the last sane Republicans .. the time has come to MARCH!

“Amal and I are so inspired by the courage and eloquence of these young men and women from Stoneman Douglas High School,” Clooney said in a statement. “Our family will be there on March 24 to stand side by side with this incredible generation of young people from all over the country, and in the name of our children Ella and Alexander, we’re donating 500,000 dollars to help pay for this groundbreaking event. Our children’s lives depend on it.”​

Follow in the steps of George Clooney - DONATE!

Home

Marching is fine if it gets the Congress's attention. I hope many many people old enough to vote will show up to support them.
And I agree -- I just love David Brooks. Not always his politics, but his heart and mind is in exactly the right place.