War on The Rich: Dumbest Idea in History of Man

[rightwinger]

If there is a war on the rich.....Guess who is winning?

 

[Camp]

Again... This is the kind of propaganda you believe when you think wealth is finite.

Propaganda? If decrying the sorry state of wealth distribution is propaganda then what is your cheerleading for a flawed system that clearly leaves so many in want? Look at the reality of things, sure there is wealth being generated but not by wage earners. We do not have a perfect system, it is not a class war to examine the flaws and attempt to address them.

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

What a ridiculous concept. The idea that people, all people, can afford a "measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each" and that a starting out family can contribute 400 a month is beyond ever ridiculous. This is the kind of distorted and twisted concepts used to promote the crazy assertions made in these post. The idea that poor people who work at low income jobs have money left over to invest is delusional. The defenders of the rich always like to ignore the simple reality that many people to not have the skills or intelligence to do anything other than simple unskilled labor requiring repetitive task to earn a living. No matter how hard they work they will always be limited to how much they can earn. It might be back breaking heavy labor or require long times of standing up and doing the same thing over and over, but there are many with low IQ's and that is the extent they are capable of. They can he honest, reliable and able to perform the task they have been given and trained for, but their ability to learn more complicated task may be restricted. They can also be intelligent, but handicapped in some way that limits their abilities.

The war on the rich doesn't exist. The war is on the greedy rich and those who use the system to maintain wealth by taking unfair advantage of others. Americans generally respect and even have a fondness for the wealthy who earn their wealth through ingenuity, invention, talent, skill, etc. What they don't respect or are fond of are those who acquire wealth through inheritance and become overly greedy to become obscenely wealthy by playing the system and bending the rules. They don't like the greedy rich who get away with theft and scams playing the system and use high priced lawyers to escape justice or get slapped on their wrists.

 

[rightwinger]

Again... This is the kind of propaganda you believe when you think wealth is finite.

Propaganda? If decrying the sorry state of wealth distribution is propaganda then what is your cheerleading for a flawed system that clearly leaves so many in want? Look at the reality of things, sure there is wealth being generated but not by wage earners. We do not have a perfect system, it is not a class war to examine the flaws and attempt to address them.

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

Its the same old story from the right....buckle down, work harder and fortune will rain down on you

$400 extra a month is not available to most middle class workers struggling to stay ahead

- I mean't to save $400 this month but I had to pay $1200 for a car repair
- I meant to save $400 this month but that doctors bill came due
- I meant to save $400 this month but we had that tuition payment

 

[Skull Pilot]

Propaganda? If decrying the sorry state of wealth distribution is propaganda then what is your cheerleading for a flawed system that clearly leaves so many in want? Look at the reality of things, sure there is wealth being generated but not by wage earners. We do not have a perfect system, it is not a class war to examine the flaws and attempt to address them.

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

What a ridiculous concept. The idea that people, all people, can afford a "measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each" and that a starting out family can contribute 400 a month is beyond ever ridiculous. This is the kind of distorted and twisted concepts used to promote the crazy assertions made in these post. The idea that poor people who work at low income jobs have money left over to invest is delusional. The defenders of the rich always like to ignore the simple reality that many people to not have the skills or intelligence to do anything other than simple unskilled labor requiring repetitive task to earn a living. No matter how hard they work they will always be limited to how much they can earn. It might be back breaking heavy labor or require long times of standing up and doing the same thing over and over, but there are many with low IQ's and that is the extent they are capable of. They can he honest, reliable and able to perform the task they have been given and trained for, but their ability to learn more complicated task may be restricted. They can also be intelligent, but handicapped in some way that limits their abilities.

The war on the rich doesn't exist. The war is on the greedy rich and those who use the system to maintain wealth by taking unfair advantage of others. Americans generally respect and even have a fondness for the wealthy who earn their wealth through ingenuity, invention, talent, skill, etc. What they don't respect or are fond of are those who acquire wealth through inheritance and become overly greedy to become obscenely wealthy by playing the system and bending the rules. They don't like the greedy rich who get away with theft and scams playing the system and use high priced lawyers to escape justice or get slapped on their wrists.

My god do you ever think you can actually do anything or do you just constantly tell people they can't do anything.

When i was 25 I could easily save 200 a month.

The problem with people like you is that you'll accept any excuse for not being able to do something and blame it on everyone else.

Whatever happened to the "whatever it takes" mentality? If I wanted to save extra and I couldn't do it on the pay from one job then I got another job.

I guarantee you that i can find money to save in anyone's budget.

But you'd rather say it can't be done so you can rationalize your own unwillingness to do whatever it takes to get ahead.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Propaganda? If decrying the sorry state of wealth distribution is propaganda then what is your cheerleading for a flawed system that clearly leaves so many in want? Look at the reality of things, sure there is wealth being generated but not by wage earners. We do not have a perfect system, it is not a class war to examine the flaws and attempt to address them.

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

Its the same old story from the right....buckle down, work harder and fortune will rain down on you

$400 extra a month is not available to most middle class workers struggling to stay ahead

- I mean't to save $400 this month but I had to pay $1200 for a car repair
- I meant to save $400 this month but that doctors bill came due
- I meant to save $400 this month but we had that tuition payment

Excuses. and that shit doesn't happen every single month. Really how many moth's out of the year do you have a 12oo dollar car repair?

And everyone is supposed to have affordable insurance now so the Dr excuse is unusable.

And your kids should be paying for their own college.

 

[Darkwind]

What does any of that have to do with my comment? It is a fact that it is practically impossible to extract large sums from the economy without employees or investing in the labor of others. As to what you are saying, anyone can do what it takes within the bare limits of the law to get more income, it's what the rich do and it has already been asked why the double standard? If the middle class can find ways to better their share of the economy then it is the very spirit of capitalism to do so.

Mark Zuckerberg extracted large sums of money long before Facebook became the behemoth is it today. So that makes your statement fallacious. It is rare that this kind of thing can happen, but it does and is a testament to the fact that one needs only a vision to become successful. I happen to agree with you that it is the very spirit of capitalism to fight for a better share for oneself. However, the tactics of the supporters of governmental greed faction aren't following any method of established wealth creation or even betterment. They are using the force of arms to take from one class in the name of another while turning a blind eye to the one class that could benefit from their activity.

Lets all feel sorry for the 90k per year fellow whining about how good the rich have it as he steps over the bodies of the destitute on his way to his posh middle class job.

 

[zeke]

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

What a ridiculous concept. The idea that people, all people, can afford a "measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each" and that a starting out family can contribute 400 a month is beyond ever ridiculous. This is the kind of distorted and twisted concepts used to promote the crazy assertions made in these post. The idea that poor people who work at low income jobs have money left over to invest is delusional. The defenders of the rich always like to ignore the simple reality that many people to not have the skills or intelligence to do anything other than simple unskilled labor requiring repetitive task to earn a living. No matter how hard they work they will always be limited to how much they can earn. It might be back breaking heavy labor or require long times of standing up and doing the same thing over and over, but there are many with low IQ's and that is the extent they are capable of. They can he honest, reliable and able to perform the task they have been given and trained for, but their ability to learn more complicated task may be restricted. They can also be intelligent, but handicapped in some way that limits their abilities.

The war on the rich doesn't exist. The war is on the greedy rich and those who use the system to maintain wealth by taking unfair advantage of others. Americans generally respect and even have a fondness for the wealthy who earn their wealth through ingenuity, invention, talent, skill, etc. What they don't respect or are fond of are those who acquire wealth through inheritance and become overly greedy to become obscenely wealthy by playing the system and bending the rules. They don't like the greedy rich who get away with theft and scams playing the system and use high priced lawyers to escape justice or get slapped on their wrists.

My god do you ever think you can actually do anything or do you just constantly tell people they can't do anything.

When i was 25 I could easily save 200 a month.

The problem with people like you is that you'll accept any excuse for not being able to do something and blame it on everyone else.

Whatever happened to the "whatever it takes" mentality? If I wanted to save extra and I couldn't do it on the pay from one job then I got another job.

I guarantee you that i can find money to save in anyone's budget.

But you'd rather say it can't be done so you can rationalize your own unwillingness to do whatever it takes to get ahead.

Of course you could do all that. But then, you are SUPERMAN. And truly a legend in your own mind. Carry on.

Hey maybe you could get your own TV show. How to prosper and thrive on 9 buck an hour.

 

[Boss]

What a ridiculous concept. The idea that people, all people, can afford a "measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each" and that a starting out family can contribute 400 a month is beyond ever ridiculous. This is the kind of distorted and twisted concepts used to promote the crazy assertions made in these post. The idea that poor people who work at low income jobs have money left over to invest is delusional. The defenders of the rich always like to ignore the simple reality that many people to not have the skills or intelligence to do anything other than simple unskilled labor requiring repetitive task to earn a living. No matter how hard they work they will always be limited to how much they can earn. It might be back breaking heavy labor or require long times of standing up and doing the same thing over and over, but there are many with low IQ's and that is the extent they are capable of. They can he honest, reliable and able to perform the task they have been given and trained for, but their ability to learn more complicated task may be restricted. They can also be intelligent, but handicapped in some way that limits their abilities.

The war on the rich doesn't exist. The war is on the greedy rich and those who use the system to maintain wealth by taking unfair advantage of others. Americans generally respect and even have a fondness for the wealthy who earn their wealth through ingenuity, invention, talent, skill, etc. What they don't respect or are fond of are those who acquire wealth through inheritance and become overly greedy to become obscenely wealthy by playing the system and bending the rules. They don't like the greedy rich who get away with theft and scams playing the system and use high priced lawyers to escape justice or get slapped on their wrists.

What is a ridiculous concept and sad state of the human condition is essentially giving up on people because you think they are of lesser value and can't do anything about it. Some of the wealthiest people in the world came from crushing and hopeless poverty, where nothing was ever expected except honest hard work.

What you are saying almost has an insidious racist undertone, as if to claim certain people are just too dumb and uneducated to learn or be taught. You even insinuate they may be retarded. In any case, we can't expect them to ever amount to much, and it's our duty to take care of them.

Now, I have no problem whatsoever with a system that collectively provides for the few who have legitimate disability, who can't do for themselves because of their circumstances. But that is the system we already have in place. We already care for the retarded and disabled. The sick, the poor, the needy... all have special programs and resources devoted to giving them some aspect of quality in life. In addition to what the government spends, there are countless non-profit charities and billions in corporate contributions to these very same people.

As for your playing down the "war on the rich" by applying various caveats, this is part of the rhetoric... It's not the capitalists, it's the greedy mean and rich capitalists! It's not the rich liberals like Oprah or George Soros, it's the mean old conservative Republican rich, like the Koch Brothers and Walmart family! The more you talk, the more you reveal your own fraud in this war you can never win.

 

[georgephillip]

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

What a ridiculous concept. The idea that people, all people, can afford a "measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each" and that a starting out family can contribute 400 a month is beyond ever ridiculous. This is the kind of distorted and twisted concepts used to promote the crazy assertions made in these post. The idea that poor people who work at low income jobs have money left over to invest is delusional. The defenders of the rich always like to ignore the simple reality that many people to not have the skills or intelligence to do anything other than simple unskilled labor requiring repetitive task to earn a living. No matter how hard they work they will always be limited to how much they can earn. It might be back breaking heavy labor or require long times of standing up and doing the same thing over and over, but there are many with low IQ's and that is the extent they are capable of. They can he honest, reliable and able to perform the task they have been given and trained for, but their ability to learn more complicated task may be restricted. They can also be intelligent, but handicapped in some way that limits their abilities.

The war on the rich doesn't exist. The war is on the greedy rich and those who use the system to maintain wealth by taking unfair advantage of others. Americans generally respect and even have a fondness for the wealthy who earn their wealth through ingenuity, invention, talent, skill, etc. What they don't respect or are fond of are those who acquire wealth through inheritance and become overly greedy to become obscenely wealthy by playing the system and bending the rules. They don't like the greedy rich who get away with theft and scams playing the system and use high priced lawyers to escape justice or get slapped on their wrists.

My god do you ever think you can actually do anything or do you just constantly tell people they can't do anything.

When i was 25 I could easily save 200 a month.

The problem with people like you is that you'll accept any excuse for not being able to do something and blame it on everyone else.

Whatever happened to the "whatever it takes" mentality? If I wanted to save extra and I couldn't do it on the pay from one job then I got another job.

I guarantee you that i can find money to save in anyone's budget.

But you'd rather say it can't be done so you can rationalize your own unwillingness to do whatever it takes to get ahead.

When you say you could have easily saved $200 a month at age 25, how did your monthly debt level compare to the average 25 year-old college graduate today?

Why do you believe working class Americans should take additional jobs to compensate for job losses and pay cuts they played no part in creating?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The wealth of any nation is finite. The more of it the rich concentrate in their own hands, the less there is left for everyone else.

ah the zero sum game nonsense of the left

its like saying if the class valedictorian earns an A, he deprives you of making the honor roll

It's not like that at all.

If it's not a zero sum game, why do business owners fight against raising the minimum wage?

 

[kaz]

Liberals only talk in sound bites

Drill, Baby, Drill
I hope he fails
Drill here, drill now, pay less
9-9-9 means jobs, jobs, jobs.

Doesn't contradict me. See the operative word.

 

[kaz]

BTW, crony capitalism is a form of socialism, it has nothing to do with capitalism.

It is the very ESSENCE of Capitalism. That is why it is not called "Crony Socialism!"

LOL, great argument Eddie. So you're saying that East Germany was actually a democratic republic since they called themselvesthat? Another ignorant liberal who worships lawyers and thinks they know more about economics then people who actually studied it and live it. You realize they are lawyers because they went to ... law ... school. Think about it. But not too hard, I don't want you to hurt yourself.

Capitalism is distributed decision making. Businesses, consumers, employees all make their own decisions and the result is a free market where they all benefit. Socialism is centralized decision making, and only government can do that because only government gets to use guns to compel market players to make decisions not in their own interest.

Crony capitalism is when Government picks market winners and losers, typically by who spend the most to get them to use force to do it. That is why it is socialism. It is the opposite of capitalism.

You are a crony capitalist, I am a capitalist. You don't know you are, but you support a system where liberal lawyers tell you they care about you, then sell government to the highest bidder. Crony capitalism in a nut shell. As long as government has so much money and power at it's disposal, money will endlessly be used to corrupt the politicians who wield it. The only solution is to reduce it's money and power so there is less to corrupt.

You didn't even grasp what I just said, did you Eddie Boy?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

What a ridiculous concept. The idea that people, all people, can afford a "measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each" and that a starting out family can contribute 400 a month is beyond ever ridiculous. This is the kind of distorted and twisted concepts used to promote the crazy assertions made in these post. The idea that poor people who work at low income jobs have money left over to invest is delusional. The defenders of the rich always like to ignore the simple reality that many people to not have the skills or intelligence to do anything other than simple unskilled labor requiring repetitive task to earn a living. No matter how hard they work they will always be limited to how much they can earn. It might be back breaking heavy labor or require long times of standing up and doing the same thing over and over, but there are many with low IQ's and that is the extent they are capable of. They can he honest, reliable and able to perform the task they have been given and trained for, but their ability to learn more complicated task may be restricted. They can also be intelligent, but handicapped in some way that limits their abilities.

The war on the rich doesn't exist. The war is on the greedy rich and those who use the system to maintain wealth by taking unfair advantage of others. Americans generally respect and even have a fondness for the wealthy who earn their wealth through ingenuity, invention, talent, skill, etc. What they don't respect or are fond of are those who acquire wealth through inheritance and become overly greedy to become obscenely wealthy by playing the system and bending the rules. They don't like the greedy rich who get away with theft and scams playing the system and use high priced lawyers to escape justice or get slapped on their wrists.

My god do you ever think you can actually do anything or do you just constantly tell people they can't do anything.

When i was 25 I could easily save 200 a month.

The problem with people like you is that you'll accept any excuse for not being able to do something and blame it on everyone else.

Whatever happened to the "whatever it takes" mentality? If I wanted to save extra and I couldn't do it on the pay from one job then I got another job.

I guarantee you that i can find money to save in anyone's budget.

But you'd rather say it can't be done so you can rationalize your own unwillingness to do whatever it takes to get ahead.

Of course you could do all that. But then, you are SUPERMAN. And truly a legend in your own mind. Carry on.

Hey maybe you could get your own TV show. How to prosper and thrive on 9 buck an hour.

I haven't made only 9 an hour since i was 18.

The question is why are you still only making that.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

What a ridiculous concept. The idea that people, all people, can afford a "measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each" and that a starting out family can contribute 400 a month is beyond ever ridiculous. This is the kind of distorted and twisted concepts used to promote the crazy assertions made in these post. The idea that poor people who work at low income jobs have money left over to invest is delusional. The defenders of the rich always like to ignore the simple reality that many people to not have the skills or intelligence to do anything other than simple unskilled labor requiring repetitive task to earn a living. No matter how hard they work they will always be limited to how much they can earn. It might be back breaking heavy labor or require long times of standing up and doing the same thing over and over, but there are many with low IQ's and that is the extent they are capable of. They can he honest, reliable and able to perform the task they have been given and trained for, but their ability to learn more complicated task may be restricted. They can also be intelligent, but handicapped in some way that limits their abilities.

The war on the rich doesn't exist. The war is on the greedy rich and those who use the system to maintain wealth by taking unfair advantage of others. Americans generally respect and even have a fondness for the wealthy who earn their wealth through ingenuity, invention, talent, skill, etc. What they don't respect or are fond of are those who acquire wealth through inheritance and become overly greedy to become obscenely wealthy by playing the system and bending the rules. They don't like the greedy rich who get away with theft and scams playing the system and use high priced lawyers to escape justice or get slapped on their wrists.

My god do you ever think you can actually do anything or do you just constantly tell people they can't do anything.

When i was 25 I could easily save 200 a month.

The problem with people like you is that you'll accept any excuse for not being able to do something and blame it on everyone else.

Whatever happened to the "whatever it takes" mentality? If I wanted to save extra and I couldn't do it on the pay from one job then I got another job.

I guarantee you that i can find money to save in anyone's budget.

But you'd rather say it can't be done so you can rationalize your own unwillingness to do whatever it takes to get ahead.

When you say you could have easily saved $200 a month at age 25, how did your monthly debt level compare to the average 25 year-old college graduate today?

Why do you believe working class Americans should take additional jobs to compensate for job losses and pay cuts they played no part in creating?

Gee imagine this.

I didn't have much debt because I took 6 years to get my first BS degree. I went part time when I couldn't afford to go full time. I didn't buy crap i didn't absolutely need.

And hey up until i was in my late 30s I worked two jobs at least. It allowed me to save enough to open our current business when I was 40.

But then again you don't think anyone should actually do what it takes to achieve a goal do you? Just work your 37.5 hours a week, never miss a break or give up a day off and max out all your sick time every year and you should be able to buy a house and put 4 kids through school and retire debt free.

No one who ever achieved anything only worked 40 hours a week. So who do you want to emulate? Those that achieved more than average or those that are merely average?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Propaganda? If decrying the sorry state of wealth distribution is propaganda then what is your cheerleading for a flawed system that clearly leaves so many in want? Look at the reality of things, sure there is wealth being generated but not by wage earners. We do not have a perfect system, it is not a class war to examine the flaws and attempt to address them.

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

Its the same old story from the right....buckle down, work harder and fortune will rain down on you

$400 extra a month is not available to most middle class workers struggling to stay ahead

- I mean't to save $400 this month but I had to pay $1200 for a car repair
- I meant to save $400 this month but that doctors bill came due
- I meant to save $400 this month but we had that tuition payment

Now I thought about this and I can really shoot you down.

Let's assume you needed a 1200 car repair. If you had been saving you would have some if not all of that and then you could loan yourself the money and pay it back a little each month until it was repaid to your portfolio.

OR you could get a credit card like I have from Goodyear that gives you 8 months interest free to pay off a repair and then just invest a little less until the card is paid off and then make up the money you missed investing a little at a time until you catch up.

The tuition bill is still bull because if you can't afford to go full time one semester you can always go part time or even take a one semester leave of absence.

Now take the time to figure out what would happen in instead of paying 80 grand for a degree you invested that money and let it grow until you retired.

That would be 8 K a year or 666 a month for ten years added to the 200 a month I used earlier then just 200 a month until age 65 and you'd have over 3 million.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

Its the same old story from the right....buckle down, work harder and fortune will rain down on you

$400 extra a month is not available to most middle class workers struggling to stay ahead

- I mean't to save $400 this month but I had to pay $1200 for a car repair
- I meant to save $400 this month but that doctors bill came due
- I meant to save $400 this month but we had that tuition payment

Excuses. and that shit doesn't happen every single month. Really how many moth's out of the year do you have a 12oo dollar car repair?

And everyone is supposed to have affordable insurance now so the Dr excuse is unusable.

And your kids should be paying for their own college.

Explain that to a young couple making $25,000 a year.
Do you know the deductibles on todays health insurance before it pays its first dollar?

Sure kid....pay that $30,000 college bill on the $7.25 an hour that conservatives want you to make

 

[Boss]

Sure kid....pay that $30,000 college bill on the $7.25 an hour that conservatives want you to make

The reason that college bill is $30,000 and not more like $3,000, is because your policies have removed the colleges from competitive free market capitalism. They now have financial aid departments who point prospective students in the direction of all the funding available which they already know they will be getting. The student (consumer) is not motivated by price because the money is "free" and not a personal asset. The more money you guarantee will be available to colleges, the more colleges will increase the price.

But you see, if free market capitalism were functioning as it should with colleges, the student would say, "30-grand, you're out of your fucking mind!" and the college would have to lower the price of tuition to encourage students to attend.

 

[edthecynic]

Taking advantage of existing tax codes is NOT a subsidy, so provide something of real value to the conversation.

Tax codes benefiting the wealthy and punishing the wage earner created by puppet politicians controlled by the wealthy. Yeah, you are right, it is WORSE than a subsidy!

December 06, 2012
RUSH: The problem is, in Warren Buffett's case, you could raise the income tax rate to a hundred percent and you're gonna be collecting taxes on about $120,000 of income. The rest of his income is not earned, so to speak. It's dividend, capital gains. He's got his wealth. You're going to have to institute a wealth tax to go get people like Buffett and many moguls and many executives. They've insured themselves.
You have to understand, the income tax is to prevent you from accruing wealth.

You made My case for Me. The income tax is wielded as a weapon for the greedy to keep the citizen oppressed. A company (Note I was talking about a company and subsidies, not the all encompassing nebulous evil known as "the rich") uses existing tax code that is available to EVERYONE.

You also seem to be delusional. Do you not understand that the money belongs to the companies and the people and that taxes is a punitive act by government in taking that money away? Why is it that people like you always make the mistake of thinking that corporations are taking money that doesn't belong to them when in fact, it is the other way around.

If the tax code subsidies were available to EVERYONE, then it couldn't be a "weapon" for the greedy against the average wage earning citizen. The tax code creates two kinds of income, one the type of income of the wealthy, and the other the type of income of the wage earner and taxes them differently.

Again I will let your MessiahRushie Limbola explain it to you.

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Another prediction that I... Well, not a prediction. Not a prediction. Last week, after the fiscal cliff deal was signed and everybody was celebrating on the low-information side about taxes being raised on the rich, I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.
The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

 

[Boss]

Do you know the deductibles on todays health insurance before it pays its first dollar?

Insurance companies are capitalists, not magical money fairies. They sell a product to a consumer. If you want to lower the deductible, the rate will have to be higher for your premium, and most insurance providers will be happy to take care of that for you. There is not another way to do that, the insurance company cannot create money from thin air.

 

[edthecynic]

BTW, crony capitalism is a form of socialism, it has nothing to do with capitalism.

It is the very ESSENCE of Capitalism. That is why it is not called "Crony Socialism!"

LOL, great argument Eddie. So you're saying that East Germany was actually a democratic republic since they called themselvesthat?

It's the EXACT same "logic" the Right uses to claim the CON$ervoFascist NAZIs were "Socialists" because they were called "National Socialists." What's good for the goose....