War on The Rich: Dumbest Idea in History of Man

[Darkwind]

Taking advantage of existing tax codes is NOT a subsidy, so provide something of real value to the conversation.

Tax codes benefiting the wealthy and punishing the wage earner created by puppet politicians controlled by the wealthy. Yeah, you are right, it is WORSE than a subsidy!

December 06, 2012
RUSH: The problem is, in Warren Buffett's case, you could raise the income tax rate to a hundred percent and you're gonna be collecting taxes on about $120,000 of income. The rest of his income is not earned, so to speak. It's dividend, capital gains. He's got his wealth. You're going to have to institute a wealth tax to go get people like Buffett and many moguls and many executives. They've insured themselves.
You have to understand, the income tax is to prevent you from accruing wealth.

You made My case for Me. The income tax is wielded as a weapon for the greedy to keep the citizen oppressed. A company (Note I was talking about a company and subsidies, not the all encompassing nebulous evil known as "the rich") uses existing tax code that is available to EVERYONE.

You also seem to be delusional. Do you not understand that the money belongs to the companies and the people and that taxes is a punitive act by government in taking that money away? Why is it that people like you always make the mistake of thinking that corporations are taking money that doesn't belong to them when in fact, it is the other way around.

If the tax code subsidies were available to EVERYONE, then it couldn't be a "weapon" for the greedy against the average wage earning citizen. The tax code creates two kinds of income, one the type of income of the wealthy, and the other the type of income of the wage earner and taxes them differently.

Again I will let your MessiahRushie Lombola explain it to you.

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Another prediction that I... Well, not a prediction. Not a prediction. Last week, after the fiscal cliff deal was signed and everybody was celebrating on the low-information side about taxes being raised on the rich, I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.
The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

I'll try one more time, but first you have to get one thing through the solid bone you call a head...

Rush is NOT anyone I follow and rarely agree with. Although he seems to have your undivided attention.

Now, for the last time. Deductions in the tax code are NOT subsidies.

You are going to have to learn that the money does NOT belong to the government and is doled back out to the citizen or corporation after they file their tax forms.

It is and always has been, theirs to begin.

Until you acknowledge that, there is little use in continuing a conversation with someone who can't even understand the fundamentals.

 

[Boss]

Taking advantage of existing tax codes is NOT a subsidy, so provide something of real value to the conversation.

Tax codes benefiting the wealthy and punishing the wage earner created by puppet politicians controlled by the wealthy. Yeah, you are right, it is WORSE than a subsidy!

December 06, 2012
RUSH: The problem is, in Warren Buffett's case, you could raise the income tax rate to a hundred percent and you're gonna be collecting taxes on about $120,000 of income. The rest of his income is not earned, so to speak. It's dividend, capital gains. He's got his wealth. You're going to have to institute a wealth tax to go get people like Buffett and many moguls and many executives. They've insured themselves.
You have to understand, the income tax is to prevent you from accruing wealth.

You made My case for Me. The income tax is wielded as a weapon for the greedy to keep the citizen oppressed. A company (Note I was talking about a company and subsidies, not the all encompassing nebulous evil known as "the rich") uses existing tax code that is available to EVERYONE.

You also seem to be delusional. Do you not understand that the money belongs to the companies and the people and that taxes is a punitive act by government in taking that money away? Why is it that people like you always make the mistake of thinking that corporations are taking money that doesn't belong to them when in fact, it is the other way around.

If the tax code subsidies were available to EVERYONE, then it couldn't be a "weapon" for the greedy against the average wage earning citizen. The tax code creates two kinds of income, one the type of income of the wealthy, and the other the type of income of the wage earner and taxes them differently.

Again I will let your MessiahRushie Lombola explain it to you.

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Another prediction that I... Well, not a prediction. Not a prediction. Last week, after the fiscal cliff deal was signed and everybody was celebrating on the low-information side about taxes being raised on the rich, I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.
The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

Rush is right. What you are failing to comprehend is you can't tax investment income the same as earned income because rich people are smart. You fire another cannonball through the hull of your ship trying to fight a war you cannot win against an enemy you'll never defeat. What happens if an investor is no longer encouraged to invest? Are you smart enough to figure that out, or not?

Now... IF we actually lived in this fantasy Utopian universe you think we live in, then every person who ever invested would see huge glorious returns on their investments every time, and it would be relatively easy to make any poor person wealthy, just give them a little money to invest where they could never go wrong and would always realize huge windfalls. But the reality we actually live in doesn't work that way. Investments require a great deal of risk. They don't always pay off. Sometimes the investor may lose everything.

Wealthy investors aren't investing because they need money and this is a cheaper tax option than earning it. They take a risk with their money in order to see a profit like any capitalist, and we encourage this investment by lowering the tax rates on the profit because the money is important to economic growth and prosperity. The wealthy investors can always find something else to do with their fortunes, which is why you can never win this war.

 

[kaz]

BTW, crony capitalism is a form of socialism, it has nothing to do with capitalism.

It is the very ESSENCE of Capitalism. That is why it is not called "Crony Socialism!"

LOL, great argument Eddie. So you're saying that East Germany was actually a democratic republic since they called themselvesthat?

It's the EXACT same "logic" the Right uses to claim the CON$ervoFascist NAZIs were "Socialists" because they were called "National Socialists." What's good for the goose....

The Nazis were socialists. They believed in central economic planning. Government controlled industry. Bad example, sorry.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The wealth of any nation is finite. The more of it the rich concentrate in their own hands, the less there is left for everyone else.

ah the zero sum game nonsense of the left

its like saying if the class valedictorian earns an A, he deprives you of making the honor roll

It's not like that at all.

If it's not a zero sum game, why do business owners fight against raising the minimum wage?

I guess my question has stumped the lot of you.

You are insisting that wealth is not a zero sum game, but you bitch constantly about the distribution of it as it's created.

Which is it?

Apparently it's not a zero sum game when the Rich are keeping more and more of it,

but it is a zero sum game when it's an the issue of the working class getting more of it.

Fascinating hypocrisy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Taking advantage of existing tax codes is NOT a subsidy, so provide something of real value to the conversation.

Tax codes benefiting the wealthy and punishing the wage earner created by puppet politicians controlled by the wealthy. Yeah, you are right, it is WORSE than a subsidy!

December 06, 2012
RUSH: The problem is, in Warren Buffett's case, you could raise the income tax rate to a hundred percent and you're gonna be collecting taxes on about $120,000 of income. The rest of his income is not earned, so to speak. It's dividend, capital gains. He's got his wealth. You're going to have to institute a wealth tax to go get people like Buffett and many moguls and many executives. They've insured themselves.
You have to understand, the income tax is to prevent you from accruing wealth.

You made My case for Me. The income tax is wielded as a weapon for the greedy to keep the citizen oppressed. A company (Note I was talking about a company and subsidies, not the all encompassing nebulous evil known as "the rich") uses existing tax code that is available to EVERYONE.

You also seem to be delusional. Do you not understand that the money belongs to the companies and the people and that taxes is a punitive act by government in taking that money away? Why is it that people like you always make the mistake of thinking that corporations are taking money that doesn't belong to them when in fact, it is the other way around.

If the tax code subsidies were available to EVERYONE, then it couldn't be a "weapon" for the greedy against the average wage earning citizen. The tax code creates two kinds of income, one the type of income of the wealthy, and the other the type of income of the wage earner and taxes them differently.

Again I will let your MessiahRushie Lombola explain it to you.

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Another prediction that I... Well, not a prediction. Not a prediction. Last week, after the fiscal cliff deal was signed and everybody was celebrating on the low-information side about taxes being raised on the rich, I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.
The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

Rush is right. What you are failing to comprehend is you can't tax investment income the same as earned income because rich people are smart. You fire another cannonball through the hull of your ship trying to fight a war you cannot win against an enemy you'll never defeat. What happens if an investor is no longer encouraged to invest? Are you smart enough to figure that out, or not?

Now... IF we actually lived in this fantasy Utopian universe you think we live in, then every person who ever invested would see huge glorious returns on their investments every time, and it would be relatively easy to make any poor person wealthy, just give them a little money to invest where they could never go wrong and would always realize huge windfalls. But the reality we actually live in doesn't work that way. Investments require a great deal of risk. They don't always pay off. Sometimes the investor may lose everything.

Wealthy investors aren't investing because they need money and this is a cheaper tax option than earning it. They take a risk with their money in order to see a profit like any capitalist, and we encourage this investment by lowering the tax rates on the profit because the money is important to economic growth and prosperity. The wealthy investors can always find something else to do with their fortunes, which is why you can never win this war.

You say wealth is infinite. Why then can't businesses with minimum wage workers tap into that infinity to pay their workers a higher minimum wage?

 

[rightwinger]

Taking advantage of existing tax codes is NOT a subsidy, so provide something of real value to the conversation.

Tax codes benefiting the wealthy and punishing the wage earner created by puppet politicians controlled by the wealthy. Yeah, you are right, it is WORSE than a subsidy!

December 06, 2012
RUSH: The problem is, in Warren Buffett's case, you could raise the income tax rate to a hundred percent and you're gonna be collecting taxes on about $120,000 of income. The rest of his income is not earned, so to speak. It's dividend, capital gains. He's got his wealth. You're going to have to institute a wealth tax to go get people like Buffett and many moguls and many executives. They've insured themselves.
You have to understand, the income tax is to prevent you from accruing wealth.

You made My case for Me. The income tax is wielded as a weapon for the greedy to keep the citizen oppressed. A company (Note I was talking about a company and subsidies, not the all encompassing nebulous evil known as "the rich") uses existing tax code that is available to EVERYONE.

You also seem to be delusional. Do you not understand that the money belongs to the companies and the people and that taxes is a punitive act by government in taking that money away? Why is it that people like you always make the mistake of thinking that corporations are taking money that doesn't belong to them when in fact, it is the other way around.

If the tax code subsidies were available to EVERYONE, then it couldn't be a "weapon" for the greedy against the average wage earning citizen. The tax code creates two kinds of income, one the type of income of the wealthy, and the other the type of income of the wage earner and taxes them differently.

Again I will let your MessiahRushie Lombola explain it to you.

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Another prediction that I... Well, not a prediction. Not a prediction. Last week, after the fiscal cliff deal was signed and everybody was celebrating on the low-information side about taxes being raised on the rich, I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.
The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

Rush is right. What you are failing to comprehend is you can't tax investment income the same as earned income because rich people are smart. You fire another cannonball through the hull of your ship trying to fight a war you cannot win against an enemy you'll never defeat. What happens if an investor is no longer encouraged to invest? Are you smart enough to figure that out, or not?

Now... IF we actually lived in this fantasy Utopian universe you think we live in, then every person who ever invested would see huge glorious returns on their investments every time, and it would be relatively easy to make any poor person wealthy, just give them a little money to invest where they could never go wrong and would always realize huge windfalls. But the reality we actually live in doesn't work that way. Investments require a great deal of risk. They don't always pay off. Sometimes the investor may lose everything.

Wealthy investors aren't investing because they need money and this is a cheaper tax option than earning it. They take a risk with their money in order to see a profit like any capitalist, and we encourage this investment by lowering the tax rates on the profit because the money is important to economic growth and prosperity. The wealthy investors can always find something else to do with their fortunes, which is why you can never win this war.

What bullshit

Pity the poor investor who has to pay the same tax rate on his $50,000 investment income as the guy who sweat to make $50,000

But, but....he'll take his money elsewhere and you'll be sorry
Just like the guy making $50,000 working will stop working if he pays more than the guy making capital investments

 

[edthecynic]

Rush is right.

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

 

[zeke]

Taking advantage of existing tax codes is NOT a subsidy, so provide something of real value to the conversation.

Tax codes benefiting the wealthy and punishing the wage earner created by puppet politicians controlled by the wealthy. Yeah, you are right, it is WORSE than a subsidy!

December 06, 2012
RUSH: The problem is, in Warren Buffett's case, you could raise the income tax rate to a hundred percent and you're gonna be collecting taxes on about $120,000 of income. The rest of his income is not earned, so to speak. It's dividend, capital gains. He's got his wealth. You're going to have to institute a wealth tax to go get people like Buffett and many moguls and many executives. They've insured themselves.
You have to understand, the income tax is to prevent you from accruing wealth.

You made My case for Me. The income tax is wielded as a weapon for the greedy to keep the citizen oppressed. A company (Note I was talking about a company and subsidies, not the all encompassing nebulous evil known as "the rich") uses existing tax code that is available to EVERYONE.

You also seem to be delusional. Do you not understand that the money belongs to the companies and the people and that taxes is a punitive act by government in taking that money away? Why is it that people like you always make the mistake of thinking that corporations are taking money that doesn't belong to them when in fact, it is the other way around.

If the tax code subsidies were available to EVERYONE, then it couldn't be a "weapon" for the greedy against the average wage earning citizen. The tax code creates two kinds of income, one the type of income of the wealthy, and the other the type of income of the wage earner and taxes them differently.

Again I will let your MessiahRushie Lombola explain it to you.

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Another prediction that I... Well, not a prediction. Not a prediction. Last week, after the fiscal cliff deal was signed and everybody was celebrating on the low-information side about taxes being raised on the rich, I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.
The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

I'll try one more time, but first you have to get one thing through the solid bone you call a head...

Rush is NOT anyone I follow and rarely agree with. Although he seems to have your undivided attention.

Now, for the last time. Deductions in the tax code are NOT subsidies.

You are going to have to learn that the money does NOT belong to the government and is doled back out to the citizen or corporation after they file their tax forms.

It is and always has been, theirs to begin.

Until you acknowledge that, there is little use in continuing a conversation with someone who can't even understand the fundamentals.

I look at the idea of tax deductions as a form of subsidy a little differently.

The government, by power of law, jail time and forfeiture, has determined that I owe them X number of dollars for the income I have earned. My hard earned (tax) dollars are subsidizing the operation of the federal govt.
Just like yours are.

Then I buy a house and the government, by law, says that the interest paid to buy this house may be used to reduce some of the tax subsidy the government says I owe them.

The tax deduction (interest paid) is a reduced amount of government subsidy that I would have owed, had the law (government) not allowed for the reduction in taxes based on using the home interest deduction (for ex).

I am not being subsidized. I am being somewhat rewarded for borrowing money. The government is being subsidized. At a lessor amount than they would have (from me) had I not bought a home.

 

[kaz]

Pity the poor investor who has to pay the same tax rate on his $50,000 investment income as the guy who sweat to make $50,000

The guy who invested the money already paid taxes on the money he invested.

The irony of your story is the guy who wants to work for $50,000 has fewer jobs when you take more of the investor's money. In the end, big guy, the little guy always gets screwed. We're smarter than you, work harder, think things through better and have lawyers and accountants at our disposal. The ultimate tax for the little guy is the fair tax. Flat is as good as it gets for you. Tilt the field, we always figure out how to win.

 

[turtledude]

The wealth of any nation is finite. The more of it the rich concentrate in their own hands, the less there is left for everyone else.

ah the zero sum game nonsense of the left

its like saying if the class valedictorian earns an A, he deprives you of making the honor roll

It's not like that at all.

If it's not a zero sum game, why do business owners fight against raising the minimum wage?

I guess my question has stumped the lot of you.

You are insisting that wealth is not a zero sum game, but you bitch constantly about the distribution of it as it's created.

Which is it?

Apparently it's not a zero sum game when the Rich are keeping more and more of it,

but it is a zero sum game when it's an the issue of the working class getting more of it.

Fascinating hypocrisy.

that's a stupid dichotomy and is dishonest

we don't bitch about the DISTRIBUTION of wealth

We complain about socialist redistribution of wealth

BIG DIFFERENCE

 

[zeke]

Taking advantage of existing tax codes is NOT a subsidy, so provide something of real value to the conversation.

Tax codes benefiting the wealthy and punishing the wage earner created by puppet politicians controlled by the wealthy. Yeah, you are right, it is WORSE than a subsidy!

December 06, 2012
RUSH: The problem is, in Warren Buffett's case, you could raise the income tax rate to a hundred percent and you're gonna be collecting taxes on about $120,000 of income. The rest of his income is not earned, so to speak. It's dividend, capital gains. He's got his wealth. You're going to have to institute a wealth tax to go get people like Buffett and many moguls and many executives. They've insured themselves.
You have to understand, the income tax is to prevent you from accruing wealth.

You made My case for Me. The income tax is wielded as a weapon for the greedy to keep the citizen oppressed. A company (Note I was talking about a company and subsidies, not the all encompassing nebulous evil known as "the rich") uses existing tax code that is available to EVERYONE.

You also seem to be delusional. Do you not understand that the money belongs to the companies and the people and that taxes is a punitive act by government in taking that money away? Why is it that people like you always make the mistake of thinking that corporations are taking money that doesn't belong to them when in fact, it is the other way around.

If the tax code subsidies were available to EVERYONE, then it couldn't be a "weapon" for the greedy against the average wage earning citizen. The tax code creates two kinds of income, one the type of income of the wealthy, and the other the type of income of the wage earner and taxes them differently.

Again I will let your MessiahRushie Lombola explain it to you.

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Another prediction that I... Well, not a prediction. Not a prediction. Last week, after the fiscal cliff deal was signed and everybody was celebrating on the low-information side about taxes being raised on the rich, I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.
The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

Rush is right. What you are failing to comprehend is you can't tax investment income the same as earned income because rich people are smart. You fire another cannonball through the hull of your ship trying to fight a war you cannot win against an enemy you'll never defeat. What happens if an investor is no longer encouraged to invest? Are you smart enough to figure that out, or not?

Now... IF we actually lived in this fantasy Utopian universe you think we live in, then every person who ever invested would see huge glorious returns on their investments every time, and it would be relatively easy to make any poor person wealthy, just give them a little money to invest where they could never go wrong and would always realize huge windfalls. But the reality we actually live in doesn't work that way. Investments require a great deal of risk. They don't always pay off. Sometimes the investor may lose everything.

Wealthy investors aren't investing because they need money and this is a cheaper tax option than earning it. They take a risk with their money in order to see a profit like any capitalist, and we encourage this investment by lowering the tax rates on the profit because the money is important to economic growth and prosperity. The wealthy investors can always find something else to do with their fortunes, which is why you can never win this war.

You are a dip.

Lets say I (and my broker) have MY 100 million dollars in government insured T bills, laddered and rolling over.
And I ain't making a high rate of return but on a 100 million, it's ok money.
And I got the full faith and credit of the US taxpayer and the entire might of the US military backing up all my money;

AND YOU THINK THE TAX RATE I PAY ON MY INTEREST EARNINGS SHOULD BE LOWER THAN THE GUY BUSTING HIS ASS ON THE SHOP FLOOR TO MAKE 60K.

Just because Daddy left me a small fortune to start out with and now I got 100 mil. I should get rewarded (lower tax rate) over the guy who is busting his ass to make a living.

Why in the fuck would we do that? Oh wait, we have already DONE that nonsense. Pitiful.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

Its the same old story from the right....buckle down, work harder and fortune will rain down on you

$400 extra a month is not available to most middle class workers struggling to stay ahead

- I mean't to save $400 this month but I had to pay $1200 for a car repair
- I meant to save $400 this month but that doctors bill came due
- I meant to save $400 this month but we had that tuition payment

Excuses. and that shit doesn't happen every single month. Really how many moth's out of the year do you have a 12oo dollar car repair?

And everyone is supposed to have affordable insurance now so the Dr excuse is unusable.

And your kids should be paying for their own college.

Explain that to a young couple making $25,000 a year.
Do you know the deductibles on todays health insurance before it pays its first dollar?

Sure kid....pay that $30,000 college bill on the $7.25 an hour that conservatives want you to make

I paid my way through college are kids any different than I was when i was 25?

other than thinking everything should be handed to them on a silver platter that is?

And most routine care is covered so really how many times do you think you're going to have to fully pay out your deductible?

 

[Mac1958]

Taking advantage of existing tax codes is NOT a subsidy, so provide something of real value to the conversation.

Tax codes benefiting the wealthy and punishing the wage earner created by puppet politicians controlled by the wealthy. Yeah, you are right, it is WORSE than a subsidy!

December 06, 2012
RUSH: The problem is, in Warren Buffett's case, you could raise the income tax rate to a hundred percent and you're gonna be collecting taxes on about $120,000 of income. The rest of his income is not earned, so to speak. It's dividend, capital gains. He's got his wealth. You're going to have to institute a wealth tax to go get people like Buffett and many moguls and many executives. They've insured themselves.
You have to understand, the income tax is to prevent you from accruing wealth.

You made My case for Me. The income tax is wielded as a weapon for the greedy to keep the citizen oppressed. A company (Note I was talking about a company and subsidies, not the all encompassing nebulous evil known as "the rich") uses existing tax code that is available to EVERYONE.

You also seem to be delusional. Do you not understand that the money belongs to the companies and the people and that taxes is a punitive act by government in taking that money away? Why is it that people like you always make the mistake of thinking that corporations are taking money that doesn't belong to them when in fact, it is the other way around.

If the tax code subsidies were available to EVERYONE, then it couldn't be a "weapon" for the greedy against the average wage earning citizen. The tax code creates two kinds of income, one the type of income of the wealthy, and the other the type of income of the wage earner and taxes them differently.

Again I will let your MessiahRushie Lombola explain it to you.

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Another prediction that I... Well, not a prediction. Not a prediction. Last week, after the fiscal cliff deal was signed and everybody was celebrating on the low-information side about taxes being raised on the rich, I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.
The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

Rush is right. What you are failing to comprehend is you can't tax investment income the same as earned income because rich people are smart. You fire another cannonball through the hull of your ship trying to fight a war you cannot win against an enemy you'll never defeat. What happens if an investor is no longer encouraged to invest? Are you smart enough to figure that out, or not?

Now... IF we actually lived in this fantasy Utopian universe you think we live in, then every person who ever invested would see huge glorious returns on their investments every time, and it would be relatively easy to make any poor person wealthy, just give them a little money to invest where they could never go wrong and would always realize huge windfalls. But the reality we actually live in doesn't work that way. Investments require a great deal of risk. They don't always pay off. Sometimes the investor may lose everything.

Wealthy investors aren't investing because they need money and this is a cheaper tax option than earning it. They take a risk with their money in order to see a profit like any capitalist, and we encourage this investment by lowering the tax rates on the profit because the money is important to economic growth and prosperity. The wealthy investors can always find something else to do with their fortunes, which is why you can never win this war.

You say wealth is infinite. Why then can't businesses with minimum wage workers tap into that infinity to pay their workers a higher minimum wage?

"You say wealth is infinite. Why then can't businesses with minimum wage workers tap into that infinity to pay their workers a higher minimum wage?"

Okay, this one made me dizzy.

Oxygen, I need oxygen...

.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The wealth of any nation is finite. The more of it the rich concentrate in their own hands, the less there is left for everyone else.

ah the zero sum game nonsense of the left

its like saying if the class valedictorian earns an A, he deprives you of making the honor roll

It's not like that at all.

If it's not a zero sum game, why do business owners fight against raising the minimum wage?

I guess my question has stumped the lot of you.

You are insisting that wealth is not a zero sum game, but you bitch constantly about the distribution of it as it's created.

Which is it?

Apparently it's not a zero sum game when the Rich are keeping more and more of it,

but it is a zero sum game when it's an the issue of the working class getting more of it.

Fascinating hypocrisy.

You are bitching about the distribution not me. If you want to make more and raise your net worth you are absolutely free to do so but you would rather come up with excuses why it can't be done and blame that on some anonymous "rich" guy than yo try to come up with a reason why you can do it.

You think that wealth should be redistributed but you fail to see why taking something from someone by force to give it to another is wrong. So I'll ask you again.

If a guy robbed you at gun point and gave all your money to a homeless guy would you be OK with that?

Your coveted income redistribution is exactly the same thing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Taking advantage of existing tax codes is NOT a subsidy, so provide something of real value to the conversation.

Tax codes benefiting the wealthy and punishing the wage earner created by puppet politicians controlled by the wealthy. Yeah, you are right, it is WORSE than a subsidy!

December 06, 2012
RUSH: The problem is, in Warren Buffett's case, you could raise the income tax rate to a hundred percent and you're gonna be collecting taxes on about $120,000 of income. The rest of his income is not earned, so to speak. It's dividend, capital gains. He's got his wealth. You're going to have to institute a wealth tax to go get people like Buffett and many moguls and many executives. They've insured themselves.
You have to understand, the income tax is to prevent you from accruing wealth.

You made My case for Me. The income tax is wielded as a weapon for the greedy to keep the citizen oppressed. A company (Note I was talking about a company and subsidies, not the all encompassing nebulous evil known as "the rich") uses existing tax code that is available to EVERYONE.

You also seem to be delusional. Do you not understand that the money belongs to the companies and the people and that taxes is a punitive act by government in taking that money away? Why is it that people like you always make the mistake of thinking that corporations are taking money that doesn't belong to them when in fact, it is the other way around.

If the tax code subsidies were available to EVERYONE, then it couldn't be a "weapon" for the greedy against the average wage earning citizen. The tax code creates two kinds of income, one the type of income of the wealthy, and the other the type of income of the wage earner and taxes them differently.

Again I will let your MessiahRushie Lombola explain it to you.

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Another prediction that I... Well, not a prediction. Not a prediction. Last week, after the fiscal cliff deal was signed and everybody was celebrating on the low-information side about taxes being raised on the rich, I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.
The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

Rush is right. What you are failing to comprehend is you can't tax investment income the same as earned income because rich people are smart. You fire another cannonball through the hull of your ship trying to fight a war you cannot win against an enemy you'll never defeat. What happens if an investor is no longer encouraged to invest? Are you smart enough to figure that out, or not?

Now... IF we actually lived in this fantasy Utopian universe you think we live in, then every person who ever invested would see huge glorious returns on their investments every time, and it would be relatively easy to make any poor person wealthy, just give them a little money to invest where they could never go wrong and would always realize huge windfalls. But the reality we actually live in doesn't work that way. Investments require a great deal of risk. They don't always pay off. Sometimes the investor may lose everything.

Wealthy investors aren't investing because they need money and this is a cheaper tax option than earning it. They take a risk with their money in order to see a profit like any capitalist, and we encourage this investment by lowering the tax rates on the profit because the money is important to economic growth and prosperity. The wealthy investors can always find something else to do with their fortunes, which is why you can never win this war.

You say wealth is infinite. Why then can't businesses with minimum wage workers tap into that infinity to pay their workers a higher minimum wage?

Wealth and income or profits are not the same thing or don't you understand that?

 

[Darkwind]

Your an idiot. If you cannot see the risks to the individual, along with the benefits to society of that money being put to work, than there is no hope for you.

However, what the guy on the shop floor makes and pays in taxes has no bearing on what has been left behind as a legacy to a families prosperity.

By your reasoning, we should all just get what we can, fuck our children and make them slave and work the same as we did, just so some other smuck will have to pay a higher tax rate.

Your greed knows no bounds it seems, and your compassion is as toxic to the country as five coal plants running full steam ahead with no environmental scrubbing.

 

[rightwinger]

Pity the poor investor who has to pay the same tax rate on his $50,000 investment income as the guy who sweat to make $50,000

The guy who invested the money already paid taxes on the money he invested.

The irony of your story is the guy who wants to work for $50,000 has fewer jobs when you take more of the investor's money. In the end, big guy, the little guy always gets screwed. We're smarter than you, work harder, think things through better and have lawyers and accountants at our disposal. The ultimate tax for the little guy is the fair tax. Flat is as good as it gets for you. Tilt the field, we always figure out how to win.

Actually, he hasn't
That is why they call it a Capital "Gain"

By the way, we have already fallen for that trickle down bullshit

 

[rightwinger]

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

Its the same old story from the right....buckle down, work harder and fortune will rain down on you

$400 extra a month is not available to most middle class workers struggling to stay ahead

- I mean't to save $400 this month but I had to pay $1200 for a car repair
- I meant to save $400 this month but that doctors bill came due
- I meant to save $400 this month but we had that tuition payment

Excuses. and that shit doesn't happen every single month. Really how many moth's out of the year do you have a 12oo dollar car repair?

And everyone is supposed to have affordable insurance now so the Dr excuse is unusable.

And your kids should be paying for their own college.

Explain that to a young couple making $25,000 a year.
Do you know the deductibles on todays health insurance before it pays its first dollar?

Sure kid....pay that $30,000 college bill on the $7.25 an hour that conservatives want you to make

I paid my way through college are kids any different than I was when i was 25?

other than thinking everything should be handed to them on a silver platter that is?

And most routine care is covered so really how many times do you think you're going to have to fully pay out your deductible?

I paid my way through college making $2.10 an hour minimum wage. Kids can't do that today
I also had a good job waiting for me when I graduated

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry but they haven't lost that ability.

In fact any family in the span of 2 generations can amass a lot of money for a measly monthly contribution of 200 bucks each.

I've done this for you sheep before but here we go again

2 people (husband and wife) at age 25 start a family trust putting 400 a month away in a portfolio structured to return about 8% long term average.

in 40 years it will be worth 1.4 million

Now lets sat they have a kid at age 30 and at age 25 if he wants to participate in the family trust he also has to put in 200 a month. When he gets married his wife will put in 200 a month when their kids reach 25 they will put in 200 a month etc

By the time the first couple grandchildren are 25 there will be millions of dollars in the family trust.

You see the real truth here is not that it can't be done but that no one is willing to do it.

God forbid they drive a more modest vehicle get a cheap cell phone and give up buying 300 dollar Coach pocketbooks and all kinds of electronic gadgets so as to secure their financial future

Its the same old story from the right....buckle down, work harder and fortune will rain down on you

$400 extra a month is not available to most middle class workers struggling to stay ahead

- I mean't to save $400 this month but I had to pay $1200 for a car repair
- I meant to save $400 this month but that doctors bill came due
- I meant to save $400 this month but we had that tuition payment

Excuses. and that shit doesn't happen every single month. Really how many moth's out of the year do you have a 12oo dollar car repair?

And everyone is supposed to have affordable insurance now so the Dr excuse is unusable.

And your kids should be paying for their own college.

Explain that to a young couple making $25,000 a year.
Do you know the deductibles on todays health insurance before it pays its first dollar?

Sure kid....pay that $30,000 college bill on the $7.25 an hour that conservatives want you to make

I paid my way through college are kids any different than I was when i was 25?

other than thinking everything should be handed to them on a silver platter that is?

And most routine care is covered so really how many times do you think you're going to have to fully pay out your deductible?

I paid my way through college making $2.10 an hour minimum wage. Kids can't do that today
I also had a good job waiting for me when I graduated

Of course they can.

But if you keep telling them they can't then why would they even try.

Why can't they go to school part time? Why can't they work a full time night job while they are in school?

Why can't they work 3 jobs every summer to save money for school?

I did all those things and anyone who says it can't be done is obviously wrong.

 

[Judicial review]

The wealth of any nation is finite. The more of it the rich concentrate in their own hands, the less there is left for everyone else.

ah the zero sum game nonsense of the left

its like saying if the class valedictorian earns an A, he deprives you of making the honor roll

It's not like that at all.

If it's not a zero sum game, why do business owners fight against raising the minimum wage?

I guess my question has stumped the lot of you.

You are insisting that wealth is not a zero sum game, but you bitch constantly about the distribution of it as it's created.

Which is it?

Apparently it's not a zero sum game when the Rich are keeping more and more of it,

but it is a zero sum game when it's an the issue of the working class getting more of it.

Fascinating hypocrisy.

1 question for you - Where is the middle class in today's economy?