War on The Rich: Dumbest Idea in History of Man

[NYcarbineer]

Adam Smith, in his seminal work The Wealth of Nations, described wealth as "the annual produce of the land and labour of the society".

That is the definition/usage I was using. We can either argue about whether Adam Smith and I are misusing the word,

or, we could get back on topic. It's up to you.

We are talking about the wealth of people not of nations.

You do realize that any wealth the US government has is not yours don't you?

The wealth of people is their net worth is it not?

BTW the answer to my question I asked earlier was $1 if you couldn't figure it out.

Don't tell me what I'm talking about.

Nation - a large aggregrate of people.

Your entire premise is that your wealth is limited by someone else.

Your wealth has nothing to do with the nation's wealth and everything to do with your net worth.

Just curious are you a multi-millionaire?

Doesn't matter

So now tell me how did my increase in net worth in the past 12 months affect your net worth?

My example is yet to be addressed. Are the workers at a MacDonald's affected by how much of the profits the owner decides to keep?

 

[Skull Pilot]

If they are paying the taxes then what the hell does the left have to complain about?

They are finding legal loopholes to get out of paying taxes. I disagree they pay the bulk of the taxes.

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes

The top 10% of earners pay more than 70% of all income taxes. There aren't as many loopholes as you think

Again, it is the top 10% of WAGE EARNERS, not the top 10% of wealth!
Learn the difference, take a lesson from your MessiahRushie Limbola:

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

You listen to Rush. i don't

And it's the people on this thread confusing income and wealth. But capital gains are reported on income tax filings so the so called wealthy that pay capital gains are paying income taxes.

Maybe you should figure out what you're talking about.

But only when the Cap Gains are REALIZED, and then at a lower rate then wage income. Until the Cap Gain is realized/cashed in, it grows TAX FREE like an unlimited IRA but with no early withdrawal penalty and at a lower tax rate when cashed in no matter what your age. If you lose money on your Cap Gains you get to deduct it from your taxes, so Cap Gains are a risk free investment. And still the wealthy bitch that they are over taxed. They should have their taxes raised 1% automatically every time they bitch!

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

I know how capital gains work. They are still income taxes and are taxed more than some earned income and less than other earned income.

And you really should wonder who is screwing the middle class when the government taxes all the gains in a retirement plan as regular income and not capital gains.

And your max deduction for losses is only 3000 a year or didn't you know that either. You can't take a bath and write off millions in losses.

And I have to ask how much of your day do you spend taking notes on what Rush Limbaugh says?

 

[NYcarbineer]

You people are song and dancing around semantics because you can't cope with the core argument.

The distribution of a nation's produced wealth determines who is Rich, who is Poor, and who is in between.

No dancing around semantics, you are absolutely correct here. But you are essentially admitting the wealth is not finite. It is produced, therefore it has no limit. Now while you can argue that wealth from a particular sector is finite because you can only manufacture so much product per year and people will only buy so much of it... but you've not included all the wealth generated through creativity and talent, people writing books or playing pro sports, people recording records or designing artwork, inventing new technologies, discovering new drugs... on and on and on!

Wealth is endless. Millions of people, every single day, go out there and create MORE wealth than existed the day before. The supply cannot be depleted, it is INFINITE!

A person is not infinite.

A person's ability to create and have ingenuity is infinite. Sorry.

Are you a multimillionaire? A billionaire?

Can you detail your infinite creative accomplishments?

 

[Boss]

In any industry or or company, there's a certain sized market. That market can be grown to some degree but generally, individual industries or companies grow by increasing their market share. Within a company, the generally finite amount of money that's earned is distributed in some way to the people within it. If one guy gets more than he deserves, everybody else gets less. The difficulty is in determining a fair distribution.

There is nothing finite about the amount of money a company can earn. Have you ever gone to the store to find it closed because they have earned the most they can earn in a day? I've never seen it, and I don't think many have. Markets are fluid and ever-changing. They can fluctuate greatly depending on all kinds of factors.

Money that is earned (profit) in a company, is most certainly distributed in many ways, but it's not all to the people within it in some way. Some money is used to pay expenses, taxes, fees, maintenance, advertising, public relations, expansion, upgrades, new technologies, etc. Sometimes money may have to pay off loans to investor capitalists. But with ANY capitalist company, the objective is to return a profit, so it's very unlikely the capitalist is squandering money on people who don't deserve the money. This totally defies the objective of all capitalists.

What I was trying to get you to see is that money on its own does nothing. It's people who perform various functions who generate that wealth and energy is their force multiplier. When energy production peaks or plateaus, overall wealth generation will also plateau and the distribution of that wealth will not be the only problem that capitalism will face.

The only thing posing a problem to capitalism is anti-capitalists who want to roadblock it and not allow it to work as designed. When we've unleashed the power of capitalism in a free market system, it has generated unbelievable wealth and prosperity for millions and millions of people. In fact, there has never been a more successful system in the history of man.

Your problem is, you are still trying your best to rationalize and justify the false meme that wealth is finite. This is an important construct to Marxism and must be defended. It's how you can justify the entire ideology and work people into such a frenzy. You have to convince them to see wealth as finite and limited.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The wealth of any nation is finite. The more of it the rich concentrate in their own hands, the less there is left for everyone else.

Wrong! Wealth is NOT finite, it is infinite. People generate wealth through their labor, creativity, talents, etc. This is your key problem, the failure to understand wealth is not finite. When you believe such a fallacy, it causes you to think the wealthy should only become so wealthy else the poor can never become wealthy. It makes you believe there is only so much wealth and the wealthy have it all.

The truth is, wealth is generated, so wealth is limitless. Now the people who are wealthy in a nation, especially a free market economy nation like our own, generally got wealthy because they were smart with their money, were successful at free market capitalism, and had the drive, motivation and ambition to succeed. Many came from abject poverty to become wealthy. Seems to me, the really "smart" person might want to listen to them, learn from them, try to emulate them and find out about how they were successful.

Just total opposite of what you want to do.

I can't imagine how far removed from actually producing anything of value you'd have to be to think that wealth is infinite. You probably think that money somehow just generates more money.

SO what limits your net worth? If someone else's net worth increases does yours decrease?

Is it what someone else makes? How does one person's salary influence how much your salary can be?

In any industry or or company, there's a certain sized market. That market can be grown to some degree but generally, individual industries or companies grow by increasing their market share. Within a company, the generally finite amount of money that's earned is distributed in some way to the people within it. If one guy gets more than he deserves, everybody else gets less. The difficulty is in determining a fair distribution.

None of that stops you from increasing your net worth unless you think that one and only one source of income is all you can ever have

 

[Skull Pilot]

We are talking about the wealth of people not of nations.

You do realize that any wealth the US government has is not yours don't you?

The wealth of people is their net worth is it not?

BTW the answer to my question I asked earlier was $1 if you couldn't figure it out.

Don't tell me what I'm talking about.

Nation - a large aggregrate of people.

Your entire premise is that your wealth is limited by someone else.

Your wealth has nothing to do with the nation's wealth and everything to do with your net worth.

Just curious are you a multi-millionaire?

Doesn't matter

So now tell me how did my increase in net worth in the past 12 months affect your net worth?

My example is yet to be addressed. Are the workers at a MacDonald's affected by how much of the profits the owner decides to keep?

Not at all. They still get paid what they agreed to work for don't they?

Now tell me how is an employer stopping any employee from increasing his net worth?

 

[rightwinger]

In any industry or or company, there's a certain sized market. That market can be grown to some degree but generally, individual industries or companies grow by increasing their market share. Within a company, the generally finite amount of money that's earned is distributed in some way to the people within it. If one guy gets more than he deserves, everybody else gets less. The difficulty is in determining a fair distribution.

There is nothing finite about the amount of money a company can earn. Have you ever gone to the store to find it closed because they have earned the most they can earn in a day? I've never seen it, and I don't think many have. Markets are fluid and ever-changing. They can fluctuate greatly depending on all kinds of factors.

Money that is earned (profit) in a company, is most certainly distributed in many ways, but it's not all to the people within it in some way. Some money is used to pay expenses, taxes, fees, maintenance, advertising, public relations, expansion, upgrades, new technologies, etc. Sometimes money may have to pay off loans to investor capitalists. But with ANY capitalist company, the objective is to return a profit, so it's very unlikely the capitalist is squandering money on people who don't deserve the money. This totally defies the objective of all capitalists.

What I was trying to get you to see is that money on its own does nothing. It's people who perform various functions who generate that wealth and energy is their force multiplier. When energy production peaks or plateaus, overall wealth generation will also plateau and the distribution of that wealth will not be the only problem that capitalism will face.

The only thing posing a problem to capitalism is anti-capitalists who want to roadblock it and not allow it to work as designed. When we've unleashed the power of capitalism in a free market system, it has generated unbelievable wealth and prosperity for millions and millions of people. In fact, there has never been a more successful system in the history of man.

Your problem is, you are still trying your best to rationalize and justify the false meme that wealth is finite. This is an important construct to Marxism and must be defended. It's how you can justify the entire ideology and work people into such a frenzy. You have to convince them to see wealth as finite and limited.

In 2008, we unleashed the power of capitalism and it collapsed the economy

 

[Camp]

This thread is like an argument about book smarts and street smarts. We all know that some folks who collect government benefits don't deserve them, just as we know some folks who have wealth didn't earn it. The practical solution to both of these situations are not complicated, but we have made them political issues and the main objective is not to solve problems, but rather to collect support from both sides for the purpose of gaining or retaining political power. Our politicians pay for their power by bribing their constituents with either more benefits on one side, or more tax breaks and loopholes on the other. The pendulum swings from one side to the other and each time it swings the pie gets cut into different size pieces. In the end, not matter how many graphs and numbers are thrown around, it always ends up being a fight over pie slices.

 

[Contumacious]

In 2008, we unleashed the power of capitalism and it collapsed the economy

In 2008 , you fuckers released welfarism , aka "compassionate conservatism" and militarism aka, the UNNecessary invasion of Iraq and AfPak.

Welfarism + Militarism = Fascism

.

 

[JoeNormal]

In any industry or or company, there's a certain sized market. That market can be grown to some degree but generally, individual industries or companies grow by increasing their market share. Within a company, the generally finite amount of money that's earned is distributed in some way to the people within it. If one guy gets more than he deserves, everybody else gets less. The difficulty is in determining a fair distribution.

There is nothing finite about the amount of money a company can earn. Have you ever gone to the store to find it closed because they have earned the most they can earn in a day? I've never seen it, and I don't think many have. Markets are fluid and ever-changing. They can fluctuate greatly depending on all kinds of factors.

Money that is earned (profit) in a company, is most certainly distributed in many ways, but it's not all to the people within it in some way. Some money is used to pay expenses, taxes, fees, maintenance, advertising, public relations, expansion, upgrades, new technologies, etc. Sometimes money may have to pay off loans to investor capitalists. But with ANY capitalist company, the objective is to return a profit, so it's very unlikely the capitalist is squandering money on people who don't deserve the money. This totally defies the objective of all capitalists.

What I was trying to get you to see is that money on its own does nothing. It's people who perform various functions who generate that wealth and energy is their force multiplier. When energy production peaks or plateaus, overall wealth generation will also plateau and the distribution of that wealth will not be the only problem that capitalism will face.

The only thing posing a problem to capitalism is anti-capitalists who want to roadblock it and not allow it to work as designed. When we've unleashed the power of capitalism in a free market system, it has generated unbelievable wealth and prosperity for millions and millions of people. In fact, there has never been a more successful system in the history of man.

Your problem is, you are still trying your best to rationalize and justify the false meme that wealth is finite. This is an important construct to Marxism and must be defended. It's how you can justify the entire ideology and work people into such a frenzy. You have to convince them to see wealth as finite and limited.

If wealth were truly infinite, what would it matter to the capitalists how much their underlings were paid?

 

[rightwinger]

In 2008, we unleashed the power of capitalism and it collapsed the economy

In 2008 , you fuckers released welfarism , aka "compassionate conservatism" and militarism aka, the UNNecessary invasion of Iraq and AfPak.

Welfarism + Militarism = Fascism

.

I have no idea of what you are babbling about

What does any of that have to do with Democrats, capitalism, 2008 or the wars?

 

[Boss]

My example is yet to be addressed. Are the workers at a MacDonald's affected by how much of the profits the owner decides to keep?

It's because your example was an exercise in complete ignorance of how any business works. I think my 8-year-old granddaughter can come up with a better explanation of how business operates than you can.

NO OWNER "decides to keep" any damn thing! You act like they go to the bank at the end of the fiscal year and the banker plops out $600k on the table and says... "So, what are ya gonna do with all of it man?" And then the owner says, "Oh, I haven't decided yet... thought about giving my peasant workers a little raise... but nahhh... I think I'll jet off down to the Bahamas and blow it on coke and whores!"

That's not how businesses work in the real world. Maybe that's how it works on The Simpsons? Maybe in Jon Stewart's little universe, that's how business works, but not in the real world.

Actually, the final numbers on profits aren't known until usually a month or more after the close of the fiscal year because of the red tape in calculating it. Almost every successful business considers less than 10% increase in profit from last year as a LOSS. This is because every capitalist competitor is growing. Less than 10% growth and you're not keeping up with your competition.

Now the money goes to all kinds of different things, it's illiterate to think this $600k profit you exemplified is going into the owner's pocket and simply increased his wealth by $600k. A chunk of it was probably reinvested in the franchise. Maybe some of it went to the venture capitalist who loaned the owner the money to open the franchise? Perhaps it simply repaid the money that was lost last year when there was a profit loss of $600k? We don't know because this is a bonehead hypothetical that never exists in the real universe.

What simply does not happen in any free market capitalist business is, the capitalist saying; "We're going to run our business like communists where everyone here is in a commune, and we're going to evenly divide up all the profit gains between everyone here because we're all cool like that! ...Pass the bong, man!" Now... IF you want to try a business model like that here, I am all for it! I think you need to go for it! You open your capitalist business that equally divides up all the profits it generates between everyone working in the business, and I will support you as long as you're in business. But I have to say this, I bet such a business would fail. Why? Because there is a reason we don't see such businesses in a free market capitalist system.

 

[Contumacious]

In 2008, we unleashed the power of capitalism and it collapsed the economy

In 2008 , you fuckers released welfarism , aka "compassionate conservatism" and militarism aka, the UNNecessary invasion of Iraq and AfPak.

Welfarism + Militarism = Fascism

.

I have no idea of what you are babbling about

What does any of that have to do with Democrats, capitalism, 2008 or the wars?

Conservative conservatism is just the massive democrat sponsored welfarism in effect since it was created by FDR and LBJ.

Bush II lower taxes but then engaged in the massively expensive Iraq and AfPak invasions.

Capitalists do NOT promote welfare or warfare. Fascists do.

.

 

[Boss]

If wealth were truly infinite, what would it matter to the capitalists how much their underlings were paid?

I've been through this as well, I am not going to just repeat the thread here. You need to go back and read all my posts. This was addressed back on the first several pages.

"Wealth is infinite" does not mean there is some mythical endless pile of it somewhere for the taking. It means wealth is infinitely acquirable. It still has to be obtained.

The capitalist doesn't mind you establishing a baseline for labor with a minimum wage. It makes their job easier in terms of formulating costs because they don't have to compete for labor anymore. And you can raise that baseline, the capitalist will protest because it interferes with their capitalism, but they will adapt to whatever you establish. You want to pay McDonald's workers $15 an hour? Okay, Big Macs will now cost $10. Or maybe automated technology replaces 80% of the labor and you order through a terminal? The capitalist will work it all out... OR they will simply close the doors and do something else.

 

[edthecynic]

How about the almost 50% of people paying no income taxes pay their share?

Because they are paying sales taxes, medicare taxes, social security taxes, fees, excise and a bunch of other taxes.

Why is it that plutocrat apologists like to pretend the income tax is the only one we have?

But they dont pay income taxes.
How is it fair for libs to scream that "the rich" ought to pay more of their income when many middle class people and working class people aren't paying anything?

If I receive 10 million dollars a year in capital gains, that is my "income".It is what I show on my tax returns. By law I get to pay a specific tax known as the "capital gains tax". By bribing politicians I get to pay a lower tax on my capital gains than you do on your W2 income. But income is income. W2 or capital gains.

What the fuck is wrong with you people. Just plain stupid or what? That's twice where I've read the capital gains isn't "income". What the fuck you think it is; outgo?

Again, it is only "income" if it is REALIZED, so if your capital assets grew by 10 million and you only cashed in 1 million, you are taxed ONLY on that 1 million and at a lower rate than wages depending on how long you held the capital asset before you realized any income from it. The remaining 9 million are untaxed.

They are finding legal loopholes to get out of paying taxes. I disagree they pay the bulk of the taxes.

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes

The top 10% of earners pay more than 70% of all income taxes. There aren't as many loopholes as you think

Again, it is the top 10% of WAGE EARNERS, not the top 10% of wealth!
Learn the difference, take a lesson from your MessiahRushie Limbola:

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

You listen to Rush. i don't

And it's the people on this thread confusing income and wealth. But capital gains are reported on income tax filings so the so called wealthy that pay capital gains are paying income taxes.

Maybe you should figure out what you're talking about.

But only when the Cap Gains are REALIZED, and then at a lower rate then wage income. Until the Cap Gain is realized/cashed in, it grows TAX FREE like an unlimited IRA but with no early withdrawal penalty and at a lower tax rate when cashed in no matter what your age. If you lose money on your Cap Gains you get to deduct it from your taxes, so Cap Gains are a risk free investment. And still the wealthy bitch that they are over taxed. They should have their taxes raised 1% automatically every time they bitch!

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

I know how capital gains work. They are still income taxes and are taxed more than some earned income and less than other earned income.

And you really should wonder who is screwing the middle class when the government taxes all the gains in a retirement plan as regular income and not capital gains.

And your max deduction for losses is only 3000 a year or didn't you know that either. You can't take a bath and write off millions in losses.

And I have to ask how much of your day do you spend taking notes on what Rush Limbaugh says?

You can deduct $3,000 each and every year until all your loss is deducted, all loss not deducted in a year is carried over forever until all of it is deducted.

 

[JoeNormal]

If wealth were truly infinite, what would it matter to the capitalists how much their underlings were paid?

I've been through this as well, I am not going to just repeat the thread here. You need to go back and read all my posts. This was addressed back on the first several pages.

"Wealth is infinite" does not mean there is some mythical endless pile of it somewhere for the taking. It means wealth is infinitely acquirable. It still has to be obtained.

The capitalist doesn't mind you establishing a baseline for labor with a minimum wage. It makes their job easier in terms of formulating costs because they don't have to compete for labor anymore. And you can raise that baseline, the capitalist will protest because it interferes with their capitalism, but they will adapt to whatever you establish. You want to pay McDonald's workers $15 an hour? Okay, Big Macs will now cost $10. Or maybe automated technology replaces 80% of the labor and you order through a terminal? The capitalist will work it all out... OR they will simply close the doors and do something else.

I realize that you attribute all good things to capitalism and apparently no bad. I'll grant that capitalism has some good attributes. The best capitalism is the European type that has a safety net, environmental regulation and public support systems applied to it. Pure capitalism has no purpose but to maximize profit for the capitalists. The list of bad attributes of unbridled capitalism is long and heinous.

 

[Skull Pilot]

How about the almost 50% of people paying no income taxes pay their share?

Because they are paying sales taxes, medicare taxes, social security taxes, fees, excise and a bunch of other taxes.

Why is it that plutocrat apologists like to pretend the income tax is the only one we have?

But they dont pay income taxes.
How is it fair for libs to scream that "the rich" ought to pay more of their income when many middle class people and working class people aren't paying anything?

If I receive 10 million dollars a year in capital gains, that is my "income".It is what I show on my tax returns. By law I get to pay a specific tax known as the "capital gains tax". By bribing politicians I get to pay a lower tax on my capital gains than you do on your W2 income. But income is income. W2 or capital gains.

What the fuck is wrong with you people. Just plain stupid or what? That's twice where I've read the capital gains isn't "income". What the fuck you think it is; outgo?

Again, it is only "income" if it is REALIZED, so if your capital assets grew by 10 million and you only cashed in 1 million, you are taxed ONLY on that 1 million and at a lower rate than wages depending on how long you held the capital asset before you realized any income from it. The remaining 9 million are untaxed.

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes

The top 10% of earners pay more than 70% of all income taxes. There aren't as many loopholes as you think

Again, it is the top 10% of WAGE EARNERS, not the top 10% of wealth!
Learn the difference, take a lesson from your MessiahRushie Limbola:

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

You listen to Rush. i don't

And it's the people on this thread confusing income and wealth. But capital gains are reported on income tax filings so the so called wealthy that pay capital gains are paying income taxes.

Maybe you should figure out what you're talking about.

But only when the Cap Gains are REALIZED, and then at a lower rate then wage income. Until the Cap Gain is realized/cashed in, it grows TAX FREE like an unlimited IRA but with no early withdrawal penalty and at a lower tax rate when cashed in no matter what your age. If you lose money on your Cap Gains you get to deduct it from your taxes, so Cap Gains are a risk free investment. And still the wealthy bitch that they are over taxed. They should have their taxes raised 1% automatically every time they bitch!

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

I know how capital gains work. They are still income taxes and are taxed more than some earned income and less than other earned income.

And you really should wonder who is screwing the middle class when the government taxes all the gains in a retirement plan as regular income and not capital gains.

And your max deduction for losses is only 3000 a year or didn't you know that either. You can't take a bath and write off millions in losses.

And I have to ask how much of your day do you spend taking notes on what Rush Limbaugh says?

You can deduct $3,000 each and every year until all your loss is deducted, all loss not deducted in a year is carried over forever until all of it is deducted.

How about the almost 50% of people paying no income taxes pay their share?

Because they are paying sales taxes, medicare taxes, social security taxes, fees, excise and a bunch of other taxes.

Why is it that plutocrat apologists like to pretend the income tax is the only one we have?

But they dont pay income taxes.
How is it fair for libs to scream that "the rich" ought to pay more of their income when many middle class people and working class people aren't paying anything?

If I receive 10 million dollars a year in capital gains, that is my "income".It is what I show on my tax returns. By law I get to pay a specific tax known as the "capital gains tax". By bribing politicians I get to pay a lower tax on my capital gains than you do on your W2 income. But income is income. W2 or capital gains.

What the fuck is wrong with you people. Just plain stupid or what? That's twice where I've read the capital gains isn't "income". What the fuck you think it is; outgo?

Again, it is only "income" if it is REALIZED, so if your capital assets grew by 10 million and you only cashed in 1 million, you are taxed ONLY on that 1 million and at a lower rate than wages depending on how long you held the capital asset before you realized any income from it. The remaining 9 million are untaxed.

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes

The top 10% of earners pay more than 70% of all income taxes. There aren't as many loopholes as you think

Again, it is the top 10% of WAGE EARNERS, not the top 10% of wealth!
Learn the difference, take a lesson from your MessiahRushie Limbola:

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

You listen to Rush. i don't

And it's the people on this thread confusing income and wealth. But capital gains are reported on income tax filings so the so called wealthy that pay capital gains are paying income taxes.

Maybe you should figure out what you're talking about.

But only when the Cap Gains are REALIZED, and then at a lower rate then wage income. Until the Cap Gain is realized/cashed in, it grows TAX FREE like an unlimited IRA but with no early withdrawal penalty and at a lower tax rate when cashed in no matter what your age. If you lose money on your Cap Gains you get to deduct it from your taxes, so Cap Gains are a risk free investment. And still the wealthy bitch that they are over taxed. They should have their taxes raised 1% automatically every time they bitch!

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

I know how capital gains work. They are still income taxes and are taxed more than some earned income and less than other earned income.

And you really should wonder who is screwing the middle class when the government taxes all the gains in a retirement plan as regular income and not capital gains.

And your max deduction for losses is only 3000 a year or didn't you know that either. You can't take a bath and write off millions in losses.

And I have to ask how much of your day do you spend taking notes on what Rush Limbaugh says?

You can deduct $3,000 each and every year until all your loss is deducted, all loss not deducted in a year is carried over forever until all of it is deducted.

and how long will it take to deduct millions in losses?

Hint you won't live that long.

Capital loss deductions are small potatoes

 

[Contumacious]

If wealth were truly infinite, what would it matter to the capitalists how much their underlings were paid?

I've been through this as well, I am not going to just repeat the thread here. You need to go back and read all my posts. This was addressed back on the first several pages.

"Wealth is infinite" does not mean there is some mythical endless pile of it somewhere for the taking. It means wealth is infinitely acquirable. It still has to be obtained.

The capitalist doesn't mind you establishing a baseline for labor with a minimum wage. It makes their job easier in terms of formulating costs because they don't have to compete for labor anymore. And you can raise that baseline, the capitalist will protest because it interferes with their capitalism, but they will adapt to whatever you establish. You want to pay McDonald's workers $15 an hour? Okay, Big Macs will now cost $10. Or maybe automated technology replaces 80% of the labor and you order through a terminal? The capitalist will work it all out... OR they will simply close the doors and do something else.

I realize that you attribute all good things to capitalism and apparently no bad. I'll grant that capitalism has some good attributes. The best capitalism is the European type that has a safety net, environmental regulation and public support systems applied to it. Pure capitalism has no purpose but to maximize profit for the capitalists. The list of bad attributes of unbridled capitalism is long and heinous.

CAPITALISM IS NOT BEING PRACTICED ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

.

 

[JoeNormal]

If wealth were truly infinite, what would it matter to the capitalists how much their underlings were paid?

I've been through this as well, I am not going to just repeat the thread here. You need to go back and read all my posts. This was addressed back on the first several pages.

"Wealth is infinite" does not mean there is some mythical endless pile of it somewhere for the taking. It means wealth is infinitely acquirable. It still has to be obtained.

The capitalist doesn't mind you establishing a baseline for labor with a minimum wage. It makes their job easier in terms of formulating costs because they don't have to compete for labor anymore. And you can raise that baseline, the capitalist will protest because it interferes with their capitalism, but they will adapt to whatever you establish. You want to pay McDonald's workers $15 an hour? Okay, Big Macs will now cost $10. Or maybe automated technology replaces 80% of the labor and you order through a terminal? The capitalist will work it all out... OR they will simply close the doors and do something else.

I realize that you attribute all good things to capitalism and apparently no bad. I'll grant that capitalism has some good attributes. The best capitalism is the European type that has a safety net, environmental regulation and public support systems applied to it. Pure capitalism has no purpose but to maximize profit for the capitalists. The list of bad attributes of unbridled capitalism is long and heinous.

CAPITALISM IS NOT BEING PRACTICED ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

.

Ok, I think I have an idea of how realistic your world view is now.

 

[edthecynic]

Because they are paying sales taxes, medicare taxes, social security taxes, fees, excise and a bunch of other taxes.

Why is it that plutocrat apologists like to pretend the income tax is the only one we have?

But they dont pay income taxes.
How is it fair for libs to scream that "the rich" ought to pay more of their income when many middle class people and working class people aren't paying anything?

If I receive 10 million dollars a year in capital gains, that is my "income".It is what I show on my tax returns. By law I get to pay a specific tax known as the "capital gains tax". By bribing politicians I get to pay a lower tax on my capital gains than you do on your W2 income. But income is income. W2 or capital gains.

What the fuck is wrong with you people. Just plain stupid or what? That's twice where I've read the capital gains isn't "income". What the fuck you think it is; outgo?

Again, it is only "income" if it is REALIZED, so if your capital assets grew by 10 million and you only cashed in 1 million, you are taxed ONLY on that 1 million and at a lower rate than wages depending on how long you held the capital asset before you realized any income from it. The remaining 9 million are untaxed.

Again, it is the top 10% of WAGE EARNERS, not the top 10% of wealth!
Learn the difference, take a lesson from your MessiahRushie Limbola:

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

You listen to Rush. i don't

And it's the people on this thread confusing income and wealth. But capital gains are reported on income tax filings so the so called wealthy that pay capital gains are paying income taxes.

Maybe you should figure out what you're talking about.

But only when the Cap Gains are REALIZED, and then at a lower rate then wage income. Until the Cap Gain is realized/cashed in, it grows TAX FREE like an unlimited IRA but with no early withdrawal penalty and at a lower tax rate when cashed in no matter what your age. If you lose money on your Cap Gains you get to deduct it from your taxes, so Cap Gains are a risk free investment. And still the wealthy bitch that they are over taxed. They should have their taxes raised 1% automatically every time they bitch!

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

I know how capital gains work. They are still income taxes and are taxed more than some earned income and less than other earned income.

And you really should wonder who is screwing the middle class when the government taxes all the gains in a retirement plan as regular income and not capital gains.

And your max deduction for losses is only 3000 a year or didn't you know that either. You can't take a bath and write off millions in losses.

And I have to ask how much of your day do you spend taking notes on what Rush Limbaugh says?

You can deduct $3,000 each and every year until all your loss is deducted, all loss not deducted in a year is carried over forever until all of it is deducted.

Because they are paying sales taxes, medicare taxes, social security taxes, fees, excise and a bunch of other taxes.

Why is it that plutocrat apologists like to pretend the income tax is the only one we have?

But they dont pay income taxes.
How is it fair for libs to scream that "the rich" ought to pay more of their income when many middle class people and working class people aren't paying anything?

If I receive 10 million dollars a year in capital gains, that is my "income".It is what I show on my tax returns. By law I get to pay a specific tax known as the "capital gains tax". By bribing politicians I get to pay a lower tax on my capital gains than you do on your W2 income. But income is income. W2 or capital gains.

What the fuck is wrong with you people. Just plain stupid or what? That's twice where I've read the capital gains isn't "income". What the fuck you think it is; outgo?

Again, it is only "income" if it is REALIZED, so if your capital assets grew by 10 million and you only cashed in 1 million, you are taxed ONLY on that 1 million and at a lower rate than wages depending on how long you held the capital asset before you realized any income from it. The remaining 9 million are untaxed.

Again, it is the top 10% of WAGE EARNERS, not the top 10% of wealth!
Learn the difference, take a lesson from your MessiahRushie Limbola:

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

You listen to Rush. i don't

And it's the people on this thread confusing income and wealth. But capital gains are reported on income tax filings so the so called wealthy that pay capital gains are paying income taxes.

Maybe you should figure out what you're talking about.

But only when the Cap Gains are REALIZED, and then at a lower rate then wage income. Until the Cap Gain is realized/cashed in, it grows TAX FREE like an unlimited IRA but with no early withdrawal penalty and at a lower tax rate when cashed in no matter what your age. If you lose money on your Cap Gains you get to deduct it from your taxes, so Cap Gains are a risk free investment. And still the wealthy bitch that they are over taxed. They should have their taxes raised 1% automatically every time they bitch!

January 09, 2013
RUSH: Taxing wages at a higher rate than profits is wealth redistribution.

I know how capital gains work. They are still income taxes and are taxed more than some earned income and less than other earned income.

And you really should wonder who is screwing the middle class when the government taxes all the gains in a retirement plan as regular income and not capital gains.

And your max deduction for losses is only 3000 a year or didn't you know that either. You can't take a bath and write off millions in losses.

And I have to ask how much of your day do you spend taking notes on what Rush Limbaugh says?

You can deduct $3,000 each and every year until all your loss is deducted, all loss not deducted in a year is carried over forever until all of it is deducted.

and how long will it take to deduct millions in losses?

Hint you won't live that long.

Capital loss deductions are small potatoes

How many individuals lose millions in Cap Gains? They are even smaller potatoes.