Warmongers

[depotoo]

We armed the rebels there.

main thing that concerns me is that Trump is being approved on the syria gassing by all the rinos who are not America first type people .

I watched the Sunday shows yesterday and they're all chomping at the bit to take this and run with it. When they start with the "So Syrian people can live in peace" I know we're in trouble. I've heard THAT one before--WAR is for PEACE. Fortunately, the entire administration is not saying that yet (although Tillerson seemed to agree with Haley about Assad). As Easy pointed out, we already are kinda involved in a war in Syria (ala supporting Syrian fighters fighting ISIS) although not AGAINST Syria. Looking down the road, no one sees how peace can be negotiated in that country with Assad at the helm, so they believe the only way to end this is to get him out at some point. However, it should NOT be America's job to do that. The countries in the Middle East have a lot more at stake in that than we do, as does Europe due to the refugee problem. Let them put their foot forward and handle that.

Yet we created the refugee problem when we removed Saddam and allowed Iraq to break into sectarian groups.

Water under the bridge now. I am thoroughly opposed to stopping Syrian refugees from coming to this country, at least partly because of that.

Well it's not water under the bridge to countries like Sweden, and who Trump now claims don't spend enough money on defense.

Look, I don't like W. But to some degree at least Iraq was stabilized, although with horrible cost to both them and us. Obama was elected on a promise to get the hell out. And we did. And the place erupted, ISIS emerged, the refugee crises insured, and civil war rages in Syria. This isn't some poker game where we just redeal a new hand. We're not Pontius Pilate just washing our hands.

Iraq isn't the place we're discussing, though. We have paid for our mistakes there and I agree we should continue to support Iraq to the extent they wish it, even after ISIS is pushed out. But Syria is another kettle of fish, isn't it? We created no vacuum there; Assad had the reins when ISIS took hold there. That had nothing to do with us, unless you insist on taking full responsibility for ISIS everywhere in the world, which is a bit crazy, imo.

 

[easyt65]

Why does Kim jun fatty need to be taken out?
I thought Trump was cool with dictators in control .

Please provide the quote (and link) where Trump ever said anything that led you to that conclusion / belief....

 

[toomuchtime_]

The word is "ordnance" and the graphic is a radar tracking signature.

It fails to prove what is being alleged.

The US shared its intelligence with all of its allies and not one of them expressed any doubt about Assad's guilt and all of them supported the attack but you and Ron Paul are arguing that since the government didn't share its intelligence with CNN, Assad was probably innocent.

Innocent until proven guilty. We believe that in America don't we.

Exactly, America and all its allies believe Assad's guilt has been proved.

You're kidding, our allies support US objectives. Shocking.

Give me a break. We have all seen when the Europeans disagree with us they speak out.

 

[Tehon]

It fails to prove what is being alleged.

The US shared its intelligence with all of its allies and not one of them expressed any doubt about Assad's guilt and all of them supported the attack but you and Ron Paul are arguing that since the government didn't share its intelligence with CNN, Assad was probably innocent.

Innocent until proven guilty. We believe that in America don't we.

Exactly, America and all its allies believe Assad's guilt has been proved.

You're kidding, our allies support US objectives. Shocking.

Give me a break. We have all seen when the Europeans disagree with us they speak out.

They went into Iraq with us on false pretenses. Libya also.

 

[Timmy]

Why does Kim jun fatty need to be taken out?
I thought Trump was cool with dictators in control .

Please provide the quote (and link) where Trump ever said anything that led you to that conclusion / belief....

I'll look. I believe he wanted Qudaffi to stay in power to keep things under control.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The US shared its intelligence with all of its allies and not one of them expressed any doubt about Assad's guilt and all of them supported the attack but you and Ron Paul are arguing that since the government didn't share its intelligence with CNN, Assad was probably innocent.

Innocent until proven guilty. We believe that in America don't we.

Exactly, America and all its allies believe Assad's guilt has been proved.

You're kidding, our allies support US objectives. Shocking.

Give me a break. We have all seen when the Europeans disagree with us they speak out.

They went into Iraq with us on false pretenses. Libya also.

That's simply not true. France, Germany and many other European nations were harsh critics of the US during the secon Gulf War.

 

[easyt65]

Iraq isn't the place we're discussing, though. We have paid for our mistakes there and I agree we should continue to support Iraq to the extent they wish it, even after ISIS is pushed out. But Syria is another kettle of fish, isn't it? We created no vacuum there; Assad had the reins when ISIS took hold there. That had nothing to do with us, unless you insist on taking full responsibility for ISIS everywhere in the world, which is a bit crazy, imo.

You make a very good point.

What was it EXACTLY that made Obama intervene in the middle of a Syrian Civil War between a dictator and terrorists?

Why EXACTLY made Obama believe that it was a good idea for the Unites States to inject itself into this war, to send an 'invasion force' across Syria's border and into its country without any type of request or authorization given to do so?

Was it that 2nd use of chemical weapons, after his 'Red Line'? And combat troops on the ground in Syria was the best way to go in his mind?

Calling it - the plan / policy to oust al-Assad - 'Overreach', IMO, is being 'nice'.

To say Obama and his team underestimated Putin's commitment to al-Assad is being 'nice'. It was NEVER going to happen as long as Putin is committed to protecting al-Assad. I mean let's be real: Assad just gassed women and children for a 3rd time for all the world to see, and Putin / Russia are STILL acting in defense of al-Assad.

 

[easyt65]

I'll look. I believe he wanted Qudaffi to stay in power to keep things under control.

TAT I believe...and he was kinda right to believe that way. As mentioned, he was HELPING the Coalition fight AGAINST terrorists in Northern Africa. Our govt, however ,helped murder him and replace him with AL QAEDA! WTF?!

 

[bendog]

To be fair, in fall of 13 (as I recall) Obama asked congress to say aye or nay to Syrian involvement. He never got either. So he sorta split the diff between his normal "the US is an imperialst power that should not force it's well upon an idegenious people" and McCain's "let's bomb back to before the Stone Age."

Not surprisingly, if failed bigly.

 

[Timmy]

I'll look. I believe he wanted Qudaffi to stay in power to keep things under control.

TAT I believe...and he was kinda right to believe that way. As mentioned, he was HELPING the Coalition fight AGAINST terrorists in Northern Africa. Our govt, however ,helped murder him and replace him with AL QAEDA! WTF?!

That's not what happened . His own people rebelled . We just kept the Air Force from wiping out the rebels . They did the rest .

And al queda doesn't run Libya .


Quick google search . Trump in a Feb debate said Libya would be better wh qudaffi in charge. A few months later he flipped (no surprise). ANd said he would've taken him out .

 

[toomuchtime_]

To be fair, in fall of 13 (as I recall) Obama asked congress to say aye or nay to Syrian involvement. He never got either. So he sorta split the diff between his normal "the US is an imperialst power that should not force it's well upon an idegenious people" and McCain's "let's bomb back to before the Stone Age."

Not surprisingly, if failed bigly.

Actually, Obama first declared he didn't need Congressional approval to enter the conflict, and legally he didn't need it for at least sixty days, and once we were in it, it would have been highly unlikely Congress would have denied him the permission to continue. But Obama, always a politician and never a political leader, decided to force Congress to take responsibility for the action, but before Congress could act, in answer to a reporter's question, Kerry suggested that if the chemical weapons were removed, the US would be satisfied. Putin immediately offered to assure the remonal of the chemical weapons, and Obama, probably weeping in gratitude, immediately accepted Putin's offer.

 

[easyt65]

That's not what happened . His own people rebelled . We just kept the Air Force from wiping out the rebels . They did the rest .
And al queda doesn't run Libya

Let me educate you on something:

For DECADES Al Qaeda had been running terrorist training camps in Libya.

Those 'people' who rebelled in Libya are the same people who had been recruiting Jihadists from all over the world to go Afghanistan and Iraq to kill American soldiers.

The location from which they did their recruiting is a small town in the northeast of Libya, a notorious Al Qaeda site.

The militias - they worked with / for Al Qaeda.

The militia the Obama administration hired to help protect Ambassador Stephens in Benghazi.

Stephens communicated with the State Dept and the WH (Obama/Hillary) about how Al Qaeda's presence was growing, more terrorist training camps were opening, Al Qaeda flags were lying over Benghazi Govt buildings...

When it was revealed Qadaffi was helping the coalition fight AGAINST terrorists in Northern Africa he was a marked man...


Confirmed: U.S. Armed Al Qaeda to Topple Libya's Gaddaffi

Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links

Before he was overthrown and killed, Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi warned jihadists would conquer northern Africa

-- “Al-Qaeda considers all the people to be infidels,” Mr. Gaddafi declared in a speech weeks before NATO began its military intervention in Libya. “They deem all people their enemies. They know nothing but killing.”

* Gaddafi made Al Qaeda his enemy

 

[Timmy]

That's not what happened . His own people rebelled . We just kept the Air Force from wiping out the rebels . They did the rest .
And al queda doesn't run Libya

Let me educate you on something:

For DECADES Al Qaeda had been running terrorist training camps in Libya.

Those 'people' who rebelled in Libya are the same people who had been recruiting Jihadists from all over the world to go Afghanistan and Iraq to kill American soldiers.

The location from which they did their recruiting is a small town in the northeast of Libya, a notorious Al Qaeda site.

The militias - they worked with / for Al Qaeda.

The militia the Obama administration hired to help protect Ambassador Stephens in Benghazi.

Stephens communicated with the State Dept and the WH (Obama/Hillary) about how Al Qaeda's presence was growing, more terrorist training camps were opening, Al Qaeda flags were lying over Benghazi Govt buildings...

When it was revealed Qadaffi was helping the coalition fight AGAINST terrorists in Northern Africa he was a marked man...


Confirmed: U.S. Armed Al Qaeda to Topple Libya's Gaddaffi

Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links

Before he was overthrown and killed, Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi warned jihadists would conquer northern Africa

-- “Al-Qaeda considers all the people to be infidels,” Mr. Gaddafi declared in a speech weeks before NATO began its military intervention in Libya. “They deem all people their enemies. They know nothing but killing.”

* Gaddafi made Al Qaeda his enemy

Well there are terrorists there, but it's not a terror state . Libya is very fragmented .

The idea is to help it become a stable country, not by force because that doesn't work. They need to figure shot out like most countries.

By the way . Obama wanted to target Assad himself . Not some airstrip out in the desert.

 

[easyt65]

By the way . Obama wanted to target Assad himself . Not some airstrip out in the desert.

Obama had no intention of enforcing his own Red Line, let alone target Assad. Even HE was smart enough to know doing something that stupid was an easy way to stat a war with Russia.

 

[TNHarley]

Reportedly, China is sending troops to NK
AWESOME! Just keeps getting better and better

 

[OldLady]

We armed the rebels there.

I watched the Sunday shows yesterday and they're all chomping at the bit to take this and run with it. When they start with the "So Syrian people can live in peace" I know we're in trouble. I've heard THAT one before--WAR is for PEACE. Fortunately, the entire administration is not saying that yet (although Tillerson seemed to agree with Haley about Assad). As Easy pointed out, we already are kinda involved in a war in Syria (ala supporting Syrian fighters fighting ISIS) although not AGAINST Syria. Looking down the road, no one sees how peace can be negotiated in that country with Assad at the helm, so they believe the only way to end this is to get him out at some point. However, it should NOT be America's job to do that. The countries in the Middle East have a lot more at stake in that than we do, as does Europe due to the refugee problem. Let them put their foot forward and handle that.

Yet we created the refugee problem when we removed Saddam and allowed Iraq to break into sectarian groups.

Water under the bridge now. I am thoroughly opposed to stopping Syrian refugees from coming to this country, at least partly because of that.

Well it's not water under the bridge to countries like Sweden, and who Trump now claims don't spend enough money on defense.

Look, I don't like W. But to some degree at least Iraq was stabilized, although with horrible cost to both them and us. Obama was elected on a promise to get the hell out. And we did. And the place erupted, ISIS emerged, the refugee crises insured, and civil war rages in Syria. This isn't some poker game where we just redeal a new hand. We're not Pontius Pilate just washing our hands.

Iraq isn't the place we're discussing, though. We have paid for our mistakes there and I agree we should continue to support Iraq to the extent they wish it, even after ISIS is pushed out. But Syria is another kettle of fish, isn't it? We created no vacuum there; Assad had the reins when ISIS took hold there. That had nothing to do with us, unless you insist on taking full responsibility for ISIS everywhere in the world, which is a bit crazy, imo.

Good point. They were supposed to be fighting ISIS, weren't they? If they're also fighting Assad, that's a double bonus. All the more reason not to go any farther into it, if we've already supplied a fighting force with the weapons to do the job, right?

 

[OldLady]

Reportedly, China is sending troops to NK
AWESOME! Just keeps getting better and better

Jeesusgod. When are you gonna learn not to read MindWars shit?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Reportedly, China is sending troops to NK
AWESOME! Just keeps getting better and better

The troops are being sent to China's border with North Korea to deal with Nk refugees in the event of a US strike on NK, not to fight the US or its allies.

 

[TNHarley]

Reportedly, China is sending troops to NK
AWESOME! Just keeps getting better and better

Jeesusgod. When are you gonna learn not to read MindWars shit?

Its on several sites. The report initiated from South Korea.

 

[TNHarley]

Reportedly, China is sending troops to NK
AWESOME! Just keeps getting better and better

The troops are being sent to China's border with North Korea to deal with Nk refugees in the event of a US strike on NK, not to fight the US or its allies.

South Korea says different. Maybe you have a direct line to Xi?