We seem to have a lot of anti Cain sentiment on the board so lets put it to the test

[AVG-JOE]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

That is why a progressive tax is favored throughout the world (except for Russia)

How's that working out for the financial fitness of Europe and the rest of the gang, now?

Let's face it folks.... the only thing a progressive tax has done for ANY government is to encourage tax evasion, exacerbating the unfairness and giving advantage to those with the means to purchase legislation.

 

[AVG-JOE]

That is why a progressive tax is favored throughout the world (except for Russia)

Just because the rest of the world likes tyranny means WE should emulate them?

Wrong answer.

This is just another medieval idea the left wants to keep alive. You know rob from the rich and give to the poor government.

Lets be careful with the sweeping generalizations, eh Brother? That's like saying EVERYONE on the right wants America to declare itself a Christian Nation. To be certain, some do... but EVERY republican surely does not.

I am a self-proclaimed liberal and I have no qualms about showing my disdain for the progressive tax.

 

[rightwinger]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

That is why a progressive tax is favored throughout the world (except for Russia)

How's that working out for the financial fitness of Europe and the rest of the gang, now?

Fair point...

Now, to prove your point, can you point to anywhere in the world that is using a "fair tax" and excelling economically?

 

[rightwinger]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

That is why a progressive tax is favored throughout the world (except for Russia)

Just because the rest of the world likes tyranny means WE should emulate them?

Wrong answer.

Can you point to anywhere in the world that likes tyranny?

Wrong answer

 

[Full-Auto]

Just because the rest of the world likes tyranny means WE should emulate them?

Wrong answer.

This is just another medieval idea the left wants to keep alive. You know rob from the rich and give to the poor government.

Lets be careful with the sweeping generalizations, eh Brother? That's like saying EVERYONE on the right wants America to declare itself a Christian Nation. To be certain, some do... but EVERY republican surely does not.

I am a self-proclaimed liberal and I have no qualms about showing my disdain for the progressive tax.

I understand the concern about the broad brush.

But I recall I drive a pick up and never ever worked an honest day. According to the left, The DNC chair was the one to make the announcement.

So what are you the .0001% of liberals?

 

[The T]

That is why a progressive tax is favored throughout the world (except for Russia)

How's that working out for the financial fitness of Europe and the rest of the gang, now?

Fair point...

Now, to prove your point, can you point to anywhere in the world that is using a "fair tax" and excelling economically?

There isn't any FAIR TAX enacted...but more to the point people as you prefer the 16th Amendment which launched tyranny, and is used by government as a tool to rob the people.

This nation was fine until the progressives got hold of it in 1913 giving us not only the 16th, but also the 17th (which was a step to take power away from the States), and then the Federal Reserve which when coupled with the 16th, adds more manipulative power that favors government.

Liberty or tyranny? Where do you side?

 

[AVG-JOE]

That is why a progressive tax is favored throughout the world (except for Russia)

How's that working out for the financial fitness of Europe and the rest of the gang, now?

Fair point...

Now, to prove your point, can you point to anywhere in the world that is using a "fair tax" and excelling economically?

Not yet, but I am SO looking forward to it being America that leads our species to the stars, driving an economy based on free enterprise, taxes that are fair and simple and a budget that is balanced by law.

It's times like this that I wish I was 30 something instead 50 something, but I'm happy with my current lot and job in history.

 

[AVG-JOE]

This is just another medieval idea the left wants to keep alive. You know rob from the rich and give to the poor government.

Lets be careful with the sweeping generalizations, eh Brother? That's like saying EVERYONE on the right wants America to declare itself a Christian Nation. To be certain, some do... but EVERY republican surely does not.

I am a self-proclaimed liberal and I have no qualms about showing my disdain for the progressive tax.

I understand the concern about the broad brush.

But I recall I drive a pick up and never ever worked an honest day. According to the left, The DNC chair was the one to make the announcement.

So what are you the .0001% of liberals?

If that's what it takes. One bite at a time, and the elephant (whale) disappears.

 

[jillian]

Care to elaborate? beyond the 9-9-9 rhetoric

What more do I need to say? His 9-9-9 plan encourages consumers to NOT spend money. That's a terrible idea for helping get the economy going. Couple that with cuts for the wealthy and increases for the poor, and it's just not going to help the country get better.

Kinda like how welfare and endless unemployment checks encourage people NOT to look for work?
His plan may not be perfect but no plan ever is in its initial conception. It is however a good base to start from. It would certainly cause businesses to explode with the lower taxes.

stop it. the percentage of people who are "encouraged not to work" is miniscule. most people want to work.

stop supporting people and policies that send jobs to india and china then you won't have to worry about it.

 

[rightwinger]

How's that working out for the financial fitness of Europe and the rest of the gang, now?

Fair point...

Now, to prove your point, can you point to anywhere in the world that is using a "fair tax" and excelling economically?

There isn't any FAIR TAX enacted...but more to the point people as you prefer the 16th Amendment which launched tyranny, and is used by government as a tool to rob the people.

This nation was fine until the progressives got hold of it in 1913 giving us not only the 16th, but also the 17th (which was a step to take power away from the States), and then the Federal Reserve which when coupled with the 16th, adds more manipulative power that favors government.

Liberty or tyranny? Where do you side?

So you have no proof that your wild economic schemes will throw the country into economic collapse or more likely, widen the economic gap between the rich and working americans

The nation was not fine up until 1913. Actually, we became an economic and military powerhouse after the progressie tax was enacted

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

I have nothing against Cain as a person. I'm sure he's very nice and would be fun to sit down with and have a pizza.

But his policies are terrible. I mean, REALLY, terrible. There are areas that Obama needs to improve, but Cain is just ... terrible.

Care to elaborate? beyond the 9-9-9 rhetoric

What more do I need to say? His 9-9-9 plan encourages consumers to NOT spend money. That's a terrible idea for helping get the economy going. Couple that with cuts for the wealthy and increases for the poor, and it's just not going to help the country get better.

How is always "coddling" the poor, sharing a sad story insisting you simply CAN'T make it on your own, education is just beyond your grasp, life is too much of a burden to even think of trying, you just can't be successful, you will never be able to get out of your current situation, throw in a few apologies, a good strategy to get people to WANT to work (never mind back to work)? There is your "hope and change" America.

 

[Full-Auto]

Fair point...

Now, to prove your point, can you point to anywhere in the world that is using a "fair tax" and excelling economically?

There isn't any FAIR TAX enacted...but more to the point people as you prefer the 16th Amendment which launched tyranny, and is used by government as a tool to rob the people.

This nation was fine until the progressives got hold of it in 1913 giving us not only the 16th, but also the 17th (which was a step to take power away from the States), and then the Federal Reserve which when coupled with the 16th, adds more manipulative power that favors government.

Liberty or tyranny? Where do you side?

So you have no proof that your wild economic schemes will throw the country into economic collapse or more likely, widen the economic gap between the rich and working americans

The nation was not fine up until 1913. Actually, we became an economic and military powerhouse after the progressie tax was enacted

Is that the point that changed why we came together, no longer for common defense but to make the world do our bidding?

 

[rightwinger]

There isn't any FAIR TAX enacted...but more to the point people as you prefer the 16th Amendment which launched tyranny, and is used by government as a tool to rob the people.

This nation was fine until the progressives got hold of it in 1913 giving us not only the 16th, but also the 17th (which was a step to take power away from the States), and then the Federal Reserve which when coupled with the 16th, adds more manipulative power that favors government.

Liberty or tyranny? Where do you side?

So you have no proof that your wild economic schemes will throw the country into economic collapse or more likely, widen the economic gap between the rich and working americans

The nation was not fine up until 1913. Actually, we became an economic and military powerhouse after the progressie tax was enacted

Is that the point that changed why we came together, no longer for common defense but to make the world do our bidding?

Yes. Once we established a stable tax base, the country became an economic and military powerhouse. It is also the time we started taking care of our own people

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Your fishing. Take a position will ya!

I already addressed the Muslim issue. It was a terrible statement. Was it a misspeak or did he mean it verbatim? Only he knows.

Cains stance on energy is correct. The govt should not be subsidizing any privately held industries. (including oil and corn)

Now, when are you going to move on to these policy concerns you claim to have and stop playing the gotcha game?

Gotcha game? Have you been reading Palin's book?

1) It is in our national security to stop depending on other countries for our energy needs. National security means it is a Federal issue and will not be resolved without Federal action. Cain is against this. I am not.
2) Pulling students and "their money" out of public schools who are already underfunded will not fix those schools. Cain is for this. I am not.
3) Allowing states and counties to decide what to teach children is a terrible idea. Just look at what Kansas has tried. Cain is for this. I am not.
4) No President should favour an ethnic group over another, or mistreat one group over another. As you just said, we don't know where Cain stands on this.
5) Cain supports ending Medicare. I do not.
6) Cain has no plan to slow the rise in health care costs or health insurance premiums. In fact, he wants to repeal the one plan we currently have. I am against this.
7) Cain is for dropping the inheritance tax, dropping taxes on repatriate profits for companies and dropping capital gains taxes. Terrible ideas.

How was that? Care to pick on now?

I agree on the part of National Security, but that speaks for both "energy dependence" AND "economic". We need use ALL our means to create energy in this country: oil, coal, and nuclear. After witnessing this administration choose idology over advice on sound investment ($535 million on Solyndra, $98 million on Nevada Geothermal, $2.9 million on Riser Technologies, and $97 million on US Geothermal), I'm not convinced on quickly throwing and wasting government money on other sources quite yet. More importantly we need to stop looking to CHINA for a "bail-out" and then, when they hold all the cards and leverage against us, complain they are trying to manipulate the market. Obama could site trade threats, but China knows they OUR economy will suffer a lot more than theirs.

Allowing for teacher tenure over the quality of our education, hasn't done anything to improve the competitiveness of our kids when compared to the rest of the world. Wasn't it Nancy Pelosi that said we needed to have more "choice and competition"? It appears the unions are very fearful public schools wouldn't be able to compete, when parents are given a 'choice' where to send their children. Is this why Obama felt it was better to "dumb down" our children, by allowing states to opt out of 'No Child Left behind', because school IMAGE is more important to our kids than improving the public school system? I'm sure the unions are very proud of their lack of success.

Obamacare will not improve our healthcare system or make it more cost efficient, not one government program has proven itself to perform better than the private sector. Also Massachussetts Health Care has received less quality of care, and greater debt. Is this an improvement?

Government taxes enough without the need of a "Death tax", what the Federal Government NEEDS to do is stop spending so much and begin to live within their means.

 

[Liability]

You are completely talking out of your ass.

1) Corporate taxes are paid on profits, which is AFTER costs of business have been taken out. Those taxes are NOT a cost of doing business. A company that is breaking even and paying 35% in corporate taxes will pay the same in taxes when the rate is reduced to 9%.

2) The very wealthy "earn" their income via capital gains and dividends. Both would not be taxed under Cain's plan, meaning the very wealthy would pay $0 in taxes.

3) A national sales tax means there is incentive to NOT buy new products. This will mean less revenue to companies that make products. How does less revenue help a company expand and hire new workers?

Seriously dude. Don't be stupid.

You need to stop being so stupid.

Corporations don't PAY taxes, stupid. They pass the cost along to consumers, you dishonest idiot. OF COURSE it is a cost of doing business. For if it weren't, you mental midget, they could SELL THEIR PRODUCT for less money, schmuck. The increased cost is passed along to the buyers, you imbecile.

As for capital gains and dividends, that money comes in year by year. Did you EVER buy a stock that made a profit? How difficult is it (even for one as clearly dimwitted as you are) to figure out that WE collectively get to DEFINE what "income" is. And to the extent it's a "problem," we can define the collection of dividends as INCOME. Capital gains are ALSO profit, moron, once the stock is SOLD. If it isn't paid EVERY year, it does get paid when the gain is realized. Get a fucking handle on the basics before you spout off your dopey ignorance, someday.

A national sales tax comes with problems. But people still need some products and services, stupid. And they will still desire others. The filthy evil greedy rich folks who do a lot of that "consuming" thing, you moron, will therefore be paying a higher percentage of that particular variety of taxation. Even one as pathetically stupid as you are OUGHT to be able to figure THAT much out, you tragic imbecile.

Seriously, dud, I recognize that you can't help BEING a fucking stupid moron, but you should at least try to smarten up a little. Honesty would help too. Give that some effort -- someday.

Well done! I think you fit an insult to me in every single sentence. You win the interwebs!

Of course, you demonstrated that you have a very weak grasp of the issues. Almost as weak a grasp as you have on your temper. But lets stick to the issues for now:

1) A company has $1M in costs of doing business and brings in $1.5M in revenue. Their corporate tax rate is 25%. Cain wants to reduce this to 9%. How much will that company's costs of doing business change based on this new corporate tax rate?

2) Ok. I honestly have no clue what you were trying to say in your post here. It seemed a bit of a rambling, drunken tirade. I did get this part though "we can define the collection of dividends as INCOME". And I agree, WE can. But Cain doesn't. And since it's Cain's plan we're discussing here, you might want to stick with what Cain defines or doesn't define.

3) "The filthy evil greedy rich folks who do a lot of that "consuming" thing, you moron, will therefore be paying a higher percentage of that particular variety of taxation". Why? How? It's a fact that those at the higher incomes spend less of their income than those who are poorer. If the sales tax is based on what you spend, and the wealthy spend a lower percentage, how then can they end up magically paying a higher percentage?

You fit an insult in with every post, dildo. Psst. Hint. It's your dishonest, sanctimonious username, douchebag.

Anyway, it is more than clear that you are simply far too stupid and/or willfully dishonest to discuss these things with.

Idiots like you can't even admit that a company paying taxes simply passes the cost of that along to its customers.

Since you can't admit that obvious truth to begin a discussion, nothing else you contribute to the discussion has any value.

The price you pay for being a liar and stupid is a high one. There's a cost you can't pass along, shithead.

 

[paulitician]

Cain is just the flavor of the week smear victim for the Left. Who knows who and what the flavor will be next week. But i supect it will be anyone not named Barack Obama. Just a hunch. lol! Cain's ok in my book. The Left smears on him are pretty stupid. So go Cain!

 

[Liability]

In addition, nobody is addressing the loss of states revenue. When the federal government tacks on a 9% sales tax, will the states drop their 7% sales tax or just add it onto the federal tax meaning you pay 16% sales tax?

Oh nosies! You mean in addition to paying taxes to the Fed (as we already are) we will have to continue paying taxes to the states and localities (as we already are)?

The horror!

That's not a rational objection. It's a very petty and disingenuous quibble.

I don't think a 16% sales tax is a quibble

Since we are paying the Fed and the States and the localities (and a variety of other taxes ) in either case, yes. It is a quibble.

If you want to honestly discuss the options, you can't just pick one figure out of your ass like that and pretend that it is therefore too expensive.

 

[Liability]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

No. It's not. It is "cheaper" for the people who can least afford to pay taxes. In THAT limited sense it has a component of fairness to it.

But that doesn't make it fair, much less the "only" fair system.

A flat tax meets an important definition of fairness. The rich pay more because 10% or 23% of their income is, obviously, much larger than 10% or 23% of the income of the less affluent, lower income earners.

See? Fair!

 

[Dot Com]

 

[clevergirl]

So you favor a plan that would shift more tax burden from the wealthy onto the working poor as long as you can label it "fair"

We know that Cain does

The income tax of a person earning 25k would go from 15% to 9% . The reduction of corporate tax would blow open the flood gates for the US to attract billions of dollars to flow back into our economy- creating jobs.

The income tax of a person earning 25k would go from 15% to 9% .

While adding a 9% tax on every dollar you spend

The reduction of corporate tax would blow open the flood gates for the US to attract billions of dollars to flow back into our economy- creating jobs

Will the right ever tire of this fairy tale? "Cut taxes and we promise that jobs and prosperity will follow

It remains to be seen if food and housing costs are part of the 9% national sales tax- if so it won't pass muster in congress... The bigger picture is that it would make the US the most attractive western nation with regards to investment and growth. Right now the entire western economic model is flailing and failing.

Cain is a man with ideas and the willingness to inspire by way of providing them...