Welfare question for libertarians, conservatives

[R.D.]

I'm having no hard time figuring out anything .

When we had strictly private charity, the poverty rate was around 16%. Today, after 50 years of the foolhardy War on Poverty, the poverty rate has not been reduced on iota. Something on the order of $15-$20 trillion of confiscation and redistribution and your results are exactly bupkis.

If anyone can't figure out what an utter failure that their forced "charity" is, it's you.

Back when we had strickly private charity the black rhino existed today it doesnt. Sweetheart you have to show causation not just state facts and say they have something to do with the other

What the Sam Hill are you babbling about?

The cuckoo wishes he could fly

 

[ClosedCaption]

This whole debate comes down to a very basic question:

Should charity (helping the less fortunate) be mandatory or voluntary?

When the federal govt uses tax money, charity becomes mandatory. Is that right or wrong?

In a society it has to be mandatory. Thats part of being in a society.

What you are talking about is if your neighbors conditions had no effect on you. Everyone lived in their own bubble. Then thats a different story

What about the notion that everyone has to pull their own weight within a society? Shouldn't that be mandatory as well? That is after all.......part of being a society. If you want to provide for those less fortunate than yourself, you can and should do that. If you want to provide for those less fortunate than yourself by helping yourself to my wallet, you really shouldn't do that. I already help people. I don't need the government doing it for me.

How will you enforce everyone pulling their own weight? I'm curious to hear this

 

[ClosedCaption]

I'm having no hard time figuring out anything .

When we had strictly private charity, the poverty rate was around 16%. Today, after 50 years of the foolhardy War on Poverty, the poverty rate has not been reduced on iota. Something on the order of $15-$20 trillion of confiscation and redistribution and your results are exactly bupkis.

If anyone can't figure out what an utter failure that their forced "charity" is, it's you.

Back when we had strickly private charity the black rhino existed today it doesnt. Sweetheart you have to show causation not just state facts and say they have something to do with the other

What the Sam Hill are you babbling about?

Do you think the war on poverty was supposed to end poverty? That would be foolish to think but it seems the direction you're going in

 

[Publius1787]

Do you think people who are on welfare should get cash along with food stamps or not?

In another thread I saw that a few conservatives were vehemently giving these people any cash. I was a bit surprised. Personally, I consider myself a compassionate conservative and believe giving people on welfare a modest cash stipend is appropriate. Keep in mind food stamps don't cover some of the basic needs a person may have, such as clothing, laundry money, transportation, haircut, etc..

I would be better than the current system, yes. I think we can all agree on giving the same amount of welfare benefits with a major cut in the expensive bureaucracy. We would save millions and welfare beneficiaries would need to learn self discipline. Government unions and democrats would never stand for it though.

Being a conservative you would figure that I would answer in the negative. Realizing the impracticality of getting my way on this issue though, cash payments with a reduced bureaucracy is much more optimal than the current system. It would also empower the private sector at the expense of government institutions and regulations. I say do it!

 

[HelenaHandbag]

In a society it has to be mandatory. Thats part of being in a society.

What you are talking about is if your neighbors conditions had no effect on you. Everyone lived in their own bubble. Then thats a different story

What about the notion that everyone has to pull their own weight within a society? Shouldn't that be mandatory as well? That is after all.......part of being a society. If you want to provide for those less fortunate than yourself, you can and should do that. If you want to provide for those less fortunate than yourself by helping yourself to my wallet, you really shouldn't do that. I already help people. I don't need the government doing it for me.

How will you enforce everyone pulling their own weight? I'm curious to hear this

Enforce. That says it all about your mindset.

You don't believe in the goodness of people and their ability to recognize and help those in need. Yet, those in the bureaucratic class would do the forcing are presumed to be above such callouses, with no better evidence than that they're members of the bureaucratic class.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Back when we had strickly private charity the black rhino existed today it doesnt. Sweetheart you have to show causation not just state facts and say they have something to do with the other

What the Sam Hill are you babbling about?

Do you think the war on poverty was supposed to end poverty? That would be foolish to think but it seems the direction you're going in

So you throw incalculable amounts of other peoples' money at an intractable problem, and don't want to have your efforts judged as to any measurable results?

Wow.

 

[ClosedCaption]

What about the notion that everyone has to pull their own weight within a society? Shouldn't that be mandatory as well? That is after all.......part of being a society. If you want to provide for those less fortunate than yourself, you can and should do that. If you want to provide for those less fortunate than yourself by helping yourself to my wallet, you really shouldn't do that. I already help people. I don't need the government doing it for me.

How will you enforce everyone pulling their own weight? I'm curious to hear this

Enforce. That says it all about your mindset.

You don't believe in the goodness of people and their ability to recognize and help those in need. Yet, those in the bureaucratic class would do the forcing are presumed to be above such callouses, with no better evidence than that they're members of the bureaucratic class.

He said it should be mandatory...not me. So if its mandatory how will that be enforced?

 

[ClosedCaption]

What the Sam Hill are you babbling about?

Do you think the war on poverty was supposed to end poverty? That would be foolish to think but it seems the direction you're going in

So you throw incalculable amounts of other peoples' money at an intractable problem, and don't want to have your efforts judged as to any measurable results?

Wow.

So was that a yes or no? You seem to not have many answers and a bunch of questions

 

[HelenaHandbag]

How will you enforce everyone pulling their own weight? I'm curious to hear this

Enforce. That says it all about your mindset.

You don't believe in the goodness of people and their ability to recognize and help those in need. Yet, those in the bureaucratic class would do the forcing are presumed to be above such callouses, with no better evidence than that they're members of the bureaucratic class.

He said it should be mandatory...not me. So if its mandatory how will that be enforced?

Do we really need a law to get you to mind your own damned business?

 

[kwc57]

In a society it has to be mandatory. Thats part of being in a society.

What you are talking about is if your neighbors conditions had no effect on you. Everyone lived in their own bubble. Then thats a different story

What about the notion that everyone has to pull their own weight within a society? Shouldn't that be mandatory as well? That is after all.......part of being a society. If you want to provide for those less fortunate than yourself, you can and should do that. If you want to provide for those less fortunate than yourself by helping yourself to my wallet, you really shouldn't do that. I already help people. I don't need the government doing it for me.

How will you enforce everyone pulling their own weight? I'm curious to hear this

You don't. That's the beauty of personal responsibility and the rewards thereof. Not having someone providing for you is great incentive to provide for yourself. Give it a try some time. It's all the rage among the producers.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Do you think the war on poverty was supposed to end poverty? That would be foolish to think but it seems the direction you're going in

So you throw incalculable amounts of other peoples' money at an intractable problem, and don't want to have your efforts judged as to any measurable results?

Wow.

So was that a yes or no? You seem to not have many answers and a bunch of questions

So far, your only answer is: "Results? We don't need no steenking results!"

Then you wonder how it is that you become deemed a common thief.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Enforce. That says it all about your mindset.

You don't believe in the goodness of people and their ability to recognize and help those in need. Yet, those in the bureaucratic class would do the forcing are presumed to be above such callouses, with no better evidence than that they're members of the bureaucratic class.

He said it should be mandatory...not me. So if its mandatory how will that be enforced?

Do we really need a law to get you to mind your own damned business?

Are you a random question generator?

He said Mandatory weight pulling... I didnt

 

[R.D.]

How will you enforce everyone pulling their own weight? I'm curious to hear this

Enforce. That says it all about your mindset.

You don't believe in the goodness of people and their ability to recognize and help those in need. Yet, those in the bureaucratic class would do the forcing are presumed to be above such callouses, with no better evidence than that they're members of the bureaucratic class.

He said it should be mandatory...not me. So if its mandatory how will that be enforced?

Mandatory to be self reliant . By live and let live

 

[ClosedCaption]

What about the notion that everyone has to pull their own weight within a society? Shouldn't that be mandatory as well? That is after all.......part of being a society. If you want to provide for those less fortunate than yourself, you can and should do that. If you want to provide for those less fortunate than yourself by helping yourself to my wallet, you really shouldn't do that. I already help people. I don't need the government doing it for me.

How will you enforce everyone pulling their own weight? I'm curious to hear this

You don't. That's the beauty of personal responsibility and the rewards thereof. Not having someone providing for you is great incentive to provide for yourself. Give it a try some time. It's all the rage among the producers.

So basically If I understand this correct. If we got rid of all social programs then that would make everyone pull their own weight.

If that is what you're saying then why didnt that happen when we didnt have these social programs? Kids were working jobs and missing school and people were starving in the streets.

I mean thats cool but I dont think you really are advocating to going back to that, are you?

 

[ClosedCaption]

So you throw incalculable amounts of other peoples' money at an intractable problem, and don't want to have your efforts judged as to any measurable results?

Wow.

So was that a yes or no? You seem to not have many answers and a bunch of questions

So far, your only answer is: "Results? We don't need no steenking results!"

Then you wonder how it is that you become deemed a common thief.

We have results. I'm asking did you think the programs was going to get rid of poverty. Because that would be stupid to think so...I guess thats the reason you wont answer.

You were thinking that those programs had an unachieveable goal...no wonder you're disappointed

 

[R.D.]

How will you enforce everyone pulling their own weight? I'm curious to hear this

You don't. That's the beauty of personal responsibility and the rewards thereof. Not having someone providing for you is great incentive to provide for yourself. Give it a try some time. It's all the rage among the producers.

So basically If I understand this correct. If we got rid of all social programs then that would make everyone pull their own weight.

If that is what you're saying then why didnt that happen when we didnt have these social programs? Kids were working jobs and missing school and people were starving in the streets.

I mean thats cool but I dont think you really are advocating to going back to that, are you?

Yep. And we'll all wear the same two outfits, they'll be no refrigeration, kids will have to walk miles to school and the mules to pull the farming equipment will double as the family car for getting the firewood to heat the homestead

 

[HelenaHandbag]

So was that a yes or no? You seem to not have many answers and a bunch of questions

So far, your only answer is: "Results? We don't need no steenking results!"

Then you wonder how it is that you become deemed a common thief.

We have results. I'm asking did you think the programs was going to get rid of poverty. Because that would be stupid to think so...I guess thats the reason you wont answer.

You were thinking that those programs had an unachieveable goal...no wonder you're disappointed

What results? What goals?

If you're going to have a war on poverty, it only follows that the goal would be to eliminate, or at least greatly reduce, the rates of poverty.

So, again: What results? What goals?

 

[kwc57]

He said it should be mandatory...not me. So if its mandatory how will that be enforced?

Do we really need a law to get you to mind your own damned business?

Are you a random question generator?

He said Mandatory weight pulling... I didnt

Actually, you did say mandatory if you care to go back to the post I responded to. I was merely employing the word you used in reverse. Obviously, you aren't bright enough to know a play on words when you see one.

Tell us, how does it feel to have your ass handed to you daily in a public forum? I suppose the anonymity of the interwebs takes some of the sting and shame out of it.

 

[ClosedCaption]

You don't. That's the beauty of personal responsibility and the rewards thereof. Not having someone providing for you is great incentive to provide for yourself. Give it a try some time. It's all the rage among the producers.

So basically If I understand this correct. If we got rid of all social programs then that would make everyone pull their own weight.

If that is what you're saying then why didnt that happen when we didnt have these social programs? Kids were working jobs and missing school and people were starving in the streets.

I mean thats cool but I dont think you really are advocating to going back to that, are you?

Yep. And we'll all wear the same two outfits, they'll be no refrigeration, kids will have to walk miles to school and the mules to pull the farming equipment will double as the family car for getting the firewood to heat the homestead

Again, you didnt think this through. And you're embarrassed to answer

Seems none of you really have answers just a bunch of questions and misdirections

 

[R.D.]

So basically If I understand this correct. If we got rid of all social programs then that would make everyone pull their own weight.

If that is what you're saying then why didnt that happen when we didnt have these social programs? Kids were working jobs and missing school and people were starving in the streets.

I mean thats cool but I dont think you really are advocating to going back to that, are you?

Yep. And we'll all wear the same two outfits, they'll be no refrigeration, kids will have to walk miles to school and the mules to pull the farming equipment will double as the family car for getting the firewood to heat the homestead

Again, you didnt think this through. And you're embarrassed to answer

Seems none of you really have answers just a bunch of questions and misdirections

Is English your first language?