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And I should add, those who started early Christianity, which become the RCC, may have fabricated the entire Jesus story. Or perhaps it was something passed down over the 200 years, and is based on real persons, albeit no doubt embellished. It's impossible to say since obviously no Google nor YouTube in those days. And not a shred of evidence found as to his existence. So it's anyone's call.
But some things don't wash, i.e. the crucifixion. No way a lance would have been stuck into him, allowing him to bleed out in a few hours, which would be merciful in crucifixions, which disjoint shoulders, causing excrutiating pain, lasting days before dying of exposure and dehydration. It was a gruesome way to die, and perfected in its gruesomeness. No way they'd screw it up by letting him bleed out relatively quickly.
You aren't factoring in the Jewish Sabbath.
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/The-Historical-Jesus-Ancient-Evidence/dp/0899007325]The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ: Gary R. Habermas: 9780899007328: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
Why Did the Roman Soldier Stab Jesus with His Spear?
Sorry to piggyback on your post, Avatar.
Keep your religion out of my Christmas!
A word of wisdom, "It's better to remain silent and look like a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Little late for Josef.
Early peoples dreaded cold weather. It was a time when people died more than usual, felt pain more than usual, and had short-day depression disorder that made them feel bad. The church elders for their reason, placed the day at the beginning time of most of the northern hemisphere's cold weather to cheer people and take their minds off their day-to-day upcoming cold weather blasts. We celebrate it once a year, in common with other religions having holy days close to it, as well. It's not a big deal, but it is important for us to remember our spiritual heritage, and we are brought up in an atmosphere in which wise people with much understanding were charged with ordering things so everyone could get the best out of life. Cheerfulness in bad times can get you through a lot of bad stuff.Can you REALLY call a celebration Christmas, when it doesn't really occur on the actual date of His birth (it's actually closer to Oct. 31st), but rather occurs on a pagan date (winter Solstice), and then not only do you change the date, but you change almost everything about the celebration by adopting all of the pagan celebrations instead of your own?
The only reason that Christmas is celebrated in the manner and date it is, is because when Rome sacked Jerusalem, Constantine decided to convert to Christianity and made it the official religion of the whole Roman Empire.
But...................in order to do that, you've got to sell it to the people, and the easiest way to do that is to let them bring their own beliefs in and mix it with what you've got.
But.............in the mixing of the holdiays, a little of the meaning of both sides is lost.
Besides.....................the true war on Christmas isn't being waged by the left or the atheists, it's being waged by Santa Clause and the commercialization of the holiday.
Can you see a case for the fact it's probably ok?
Interesting thesis.
How do suppose Easter is the first SUNday following the first full moon of Spring? Seems a smidge Paganish. Yeah?
Interesting thesis.
How do suppose Easter is the first SUNday following the first full moon of Spring? Seems a smidge Paganish. Yeah?
Because it's supposed to be the Sunday after Passover, which is when Christ was crucified. Though why it's off from the days of passover occasionally. Probably some archaic split in measuring time between Christians and Jews.
Early peoples dreaded cold weather. It was a time when people died more than usual, felt pain more than usual, and had short-day depression disorder that made them feel bad. The church elders for their reason, placed the day at the beginning time of most of the northern hemisphere's cold weather to cheer people and take their minds off their day-to-day upcoming cold weather blasts. We celebrate it once a year, in common with other religions having holy days close to it, as well. It's not a big deal, but it is important for us to remember our spiritual heritage, and we are brought up in an atmosphere in which wise people with much understanding were charged with ordering things so everyone could get the best out of life. Cheerfulness in bad times can get you through a lot of bad stuff.Can you REALLY call a celebration Christmas, when it doesn't really occur on the actual date of His birth (it's actually closer to Oct. 31st), but rather occurs on a pagan date (winter Solstice), and then not only do you change the date, but you change almost everything about the celebration by adopting all of the pagan celebrations instead of your own?
The only reason that Christmas is celebrated in the manner and date it is, is because when Rome sacked Jerusalem, Constantine decided to convert to Christianity and made it the official religion of the whole Roman Empire.
But...................in order to do that, you've got to sell it to the people, and the easiest way to do that is to let them bring their own beliefs in and mix it with what you've got.
But.............in the mixing of the holdiays, a little of the meaning of both sides is lost.
Besides.....................the true war on Christmas isn't being waged by the left or the atheists, it's being waged by Santa Clause and the commercialization of the holiday.
Can you see a case for the fact it's probably ok?
Interesting thesis.
How do suppose Easter is the first SUNday following the first full moon of Spring? Seems a smidge Paganish. Yeah?
Because it's supposed to be the Sunday after Passover, which is when Christ was crucified. Though why it's off from the days of passover occasionally. Probably some archaic split in measuring time between Christians and Jews.
Actually, Easter coincides with the Spring Solstice. Why is it that there is a disparity between Passover and Easter? Probably because the Christians base it on the sun cycles, whereas the Jewish people base their calendar on more accurate moon cycles.
It's always funny when Passover comes after Easter, because then I have to ask, did Jesus time travel backwards so that He could be crucified?
Craig is a divinity guy and not an historian. Also, none too objective. So if peer review shows a consensus, I'll take a closer look. Until then, I'll assume he's nothing more than a believer out to prove a presupposition, and is thus not entirely credible.
What?? Suddenly you don't believe a HuffPo link??
ETA: I notice you didn't dispute the fact that your chronology sucks.
You do realize that invalidates your ENTIRE premise, don't you?
I discounted the chronology, not to mention it contradicts the stages of the cross, kinda an important deal to many Christians.
Bear in mind, many things thought to be of Christ, which the Vatican holds sacred, haven't fared well under scientific scrutiny. Shroud of Turin comes to mind.
When Craig's is, ya'll be sure and let me know. He's a Pacific Northwesterner. So some local pride would come into play, not to mention I'd find is fascinating were it true. Big leap in our understanding of it, which again, seems odd is not a global sensation, which it would be were it factual, and scientifically validated.
Because it's supposed to be the Sunday after Passover, which is when Christ was crucified. Though why it's off from the days of passover occasionally. Probably some archaic split in measuring time between Christians and Jews.
Actually, Easter coincides with the Spring Solstice. Why is it that there is a disparity between Passover and Easter? Probably because the Christians base it on the sun cycles, whereas the Jewish people base their calendar on more accurate moon cycles.
It's always funny when Passover comes after Easter, because then I have to ask, did Jesus time travel backwards so that He could be crucified?
Not always, due to the moon phases.
What?? Suddenly you don't believe a HuffPo link??
ETA: I notice you didn't dispute the fact that your chronology sucks.
You do realize that invalidates your ENTIRE premise, don't you?
I discounted the chronology, not to mention it contradicts the stages of the cross, kinda an important deal to many Christians.
Bear in mind, many things thought to be of Christ, which the Vatican holds sacred, haven't fared well under scientific scrutiny. Shroud of Turin comes to mind.
When Craig's is, ya'll be sure and let me know. He's a Pacific Northwesterner. So some local pride would come into play, not to mention I'd find is fascinating were it true. Big leap in our understanding of it, which again, seems odd is not a global sensation, which it would be were it factual, and scientifically validated.
Different point entirely. Your chronology is disproven by the words of the Bible, not by Craig. That's why I quoted John 19, I was trying to make it easy on you.
I think the Bible's chronology, since it predates the Church itself, would be the more reliable, no?
Not true. Niether Christ nor his followers were Christians. They were Jews, albeit, radical apocalyptic Jews. A couple hundred years later, they created a religion, which with help of a Roman Emperor, became the Roman Catholic Church, from which all Christian faiths derive.
Christ organized a Church while in His Mortal ministry. He called and authorized Twelve Apostes and Seventies. He sent them out preaching the Gospel and organizing the righteous. This organization was not the same organization that was built with the help of the Roman Emperor. They inherited what was left after the Apostasy.
I thought that it was Peter who said (supposedly), "Upon this rock, I will build my church."
What?? Suddenly you don't believe a HuffPo link??
ETA: I notice you didn't dispute the fact that your chronology sucks.
You do realize that invalidates your ENTIRE premise, don't you?
I discounted the chronology, not to mention it contradicts the stages of the cross, kinda an important deal to many Christians.
Bear in mind, many things thought to be of Christ, which the Vatican holds sacred, haven't fared well under scientific scrutiny. Shroud of Turin comes to mind.
When Craig's is, ya'll be sure and let me know. He's a Pacific Northwesterner. So some local pride would come into play, not to mention I'd find is fascinating were it true. Big leap in our understanding of it, which again, seems odd is not a global sensation, which it would be were it factual, and scientifically validated.
Different point entirely. Your chronology is disproven by the words of the Bible, not by Craig. That's why I quoted John 19, I was trying to make it easy on you.
I think the Bible's chronology, since it predates the Church itself, would be the more reliable, no?
Well there Precious . www.essortment.com/christmas-pagan-origins.42543.html. Please try real hard to notice pagan origins .I know it hard to realize especially someone like you that origins and replacing has two completely different meanings.Geeze thick as a brick . OH BTW you know what they say about assuming right? NEXT LMFAO
Hard to notice anything when you can't figure out how to post a link that works, Punkin. Maybe you should give your favorite blog or whatever a rest and look at OTHER sources . . . perhaps some that maintain their links?
Here try this Dumpling-www.essortment.com/christmas-pagan-origins.42543.html.Oh BTW just tried it on Bing and it popped right up OH P.S. You may want to check on that Spring birth of Christ,more like Fall. You are so entertaining ,nothing like a good laugh,afterall laughter is good medicine.
The Mass of Christ is not pagan. It is a solemn time Christians and Christian nations rejoice the birth of the Savior, Jesus Christ. There are 365 days of the year, and each of them has likely been a holy day of different cultures throughout the million or so years human beings we know have occupied earth. Are you sure you're not just picking out one of them to bolster a case for anti-Christianity, or are you just saying more than you think?And December 25th is definitely NOT the day Christ was born, either.
The fact remains that since the days of Constantine December 25th has been celebrated as a commemorative to the birth of Christ, and trying to undo 1600 years of history in the name of PC is stupid.
You don't like Christ? Fine, that's your right.
I don't like Christmas trees, because Biblically they are pagan symbols. I don't, however, go around insulting the 100's of millions of Christians that put them up every year.
Tolerance, you should try some...
LMFAO Non tolerent because I stated a FACT.
Hard to notice anything when you can't figure out how to post a link that works, Punkin. Maybe you should give your favorite blog or whatever a rest and look at OTHER sources . . . perhaps some that maintain their links?
Here try this Dumpling-www.essortment.com/christmas-pagan-origins.42543.html.Oh BTW just tried it on Bing and it popped right up OH P.S. You may want to check on that Spring birth of Christ,more like Fall. You are so entertaining ,nothing like a good laugh,afterall laughter is good medicine.
You just defined "more work than I'm interested in doing on YOUR frigging broken link". Either get a working link, or be discounted. Your choice.
Oh, and I have no need to "check on" anything about Christ's birth, since I already know that no one knows WHEN He was born, and also that that isn't the frigging point of the whole thing, anyway. YOU might want to check into that reading comprehension thing, since you're STILL babbling away about extraneous bullshit as though it matters.
Do I see ANYTHING in this post about any of the points I previously made? No? All I see is "I'm determined that THIS is what it's about, and THIS is the only valid source, who CARES that the links don't work, I'M going to define the debate". Well, Punkin, too bad. It isn't, it isn't, I do, and you're not.
You are so NOT entertaining. Idiots are fairly unoriginal. Let me know if you ever get out of your echo chamber and start conversing with people other than yourself.
You aren't factoring in the Jewish Sabbath.
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/The-Historical-Jesus-Ancient-Evidence/dp/0899007325]The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ: Gary R. Habermas: 9780899007328: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
Why Did the Roman Soldier Stab Jesus with His Spear?
Sorry to piggyback on your post, Avatar.
No need to apologize. Feel free even.
A word of wisdom, "It's better to remain silent and look like a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Little late for Josef.
He can learn wisdom.
Christ is in CHRISTmas.There is no religion in christmas unless you as an individual put it there.
