What are people thinking as they hear the Senate arguments?

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

I would think that after the disaster on Jan. 6th carried out by lunatics talking about “civil war” to “take back the country” (some carrying Confederate flags), you would have learned a lesson. Wild accusations about “the other side” provoking civil war while your own side gins up its thugs for a “trial by combat” won’t fly anymore.

We’ve heard this talk all year long, before, during and after Trump was defeated. Hearing it now when what is necessary is fulsome denunciation of lunatic attempts at violent insurrection and domestic terrorism ... only makes you look like a hardcore Trump fanatic. Talk like this will only succeed in encouraging the “Security State” to pass draconian new domestic security legislation, and bring down more state repression ... on everyone.
[/QUOTE]
Your willingness to allow Congress to grossly violate the Constitution will pave the way for such draconian measures.
[/QUOTE]
To my mind there is absolutely no violation of the Constitution here. Impeachment is the bare minimum Trump deserves. There is nothing draconian whatever about this impeachment. It would be a betrayal of our Constitution not to impeach after Jan. 6th.

That aside, I believe impeachment is likely to play a bigger role in U.S. politics as our country’s social cohesion collapses under growing international competitive pressure. The chance of proxy wars with China and Russia is growing, and that too will divide our citizens.

I can see a time when impeachment almost inevitably occurs when one party holds the two Houses of Congress, but the other party holds the Presidency.. Sort of like in parliamentary systems in most of Europe, we may de facto institute a clumsy sort of “vote of no-confidence” recall procedure. That by itself doesn’t bother me, though party ultra-partisanship is of course very unfortunate.

Our Congress has been granting way too much power to “the imperial presidency” for decades. Of course neither party can “save us” from a mad and riotous voter base, big money domination of politics, or from a President gone berserk. The partisan deadlock in Congress indicates our Senators are not up to the job. It is simply not in the interest of the great corporations to allow real government “of the people, by the people, and for the people.”
[/QUOTE]

Since he's a private citizen and if someone thinks the evidence is strong enough, he should be brought before a grand jury.

That is exactly what will happen AFTER his second impeachment "trial" finishes.

Trump’s New Criminal Problem

"The federal criminal code (18 USC 373) makes it a crime to solicit, command, induce or 'endeavor to persuade' another person to commit a felony that includes the threat or use of physical force.

"Simply put, it is a crime to persuade another person, or a mob of several thousand, to commit a violent felony."

Good. I was worried you guys would wait until I was too old, before you kicked off the civil war.

Nice to see you are putting the pedal to the medal.

I would think that after the disaster on Jan. 6th carried out by lunatics talking about “civil war” to “take back the country” (some carrying Confederate flags), you would have learned a lesson. Wild accusations about “the other side” provoking civil war while your own side gins up its thugs for a “trial by combat” won’t fly anymore.

We’ve heard this talk all year long, before, during and after Trump was defeated. Hearing it now when what is necessary is fulsome denunciation of lunatic attempts at violent insurrection and domestic terrorism ... only makes you look like a hardcore Trump fanatic. Talk like this will only succeed in encouraging the “Security State” to pass draconian new domestic security legislation, and bring down more state repression ... on everyone.

Your willingness to allow Congress to grossly violate the Constitution will pave the way for such draconian measures.

To my mind there is absolutely no violation of the Constitution here. Impeachment is the bare minimum Trump deserves. There is nothing draconian whatever about this impeachment. It would be a betrayal of our Constitution not to impeach after Jan. 6th.

That aside, I believe impeachment is likely to play a bigger role in U.S. politics as our country’s social cohesion collapses under growing international competitive pressure. The chance of proxy wars with China and Russia is growing, and that too will divide our citizens.

I can see a time when impeachment almost inevitably occurs when one party holds the two Houses of Congress, but the other party holds the Presidency.. Sort of like in parliamentary systems in most of Europe, we may de facto institute a clumsy sort of “vote of no-confidence” recall procedure. That by itself doesn’t bother me, though party ultra-partisanship is of course very unfortunate.

Our Congress has been granting way too much power to “the imperial presidency” for decades. Of course neither party can “save us” from a mad and riotous voter base, big money domination of politics, or from a President gone berserk. The partisan deadlock in Congress indicates our Senators are not up to the job. It is simply not in the interest of the great corporations to allow real government “of the people, by the people, and for the people.”

Since he's a private citizen and if someone thinks the evidence is strong enough, he should be brought before a grand jury.

That is exactly what will happen AFTER his second impeachment "trial" finishes.

Trump’s New Criminal Problem

"The federal criminal code (18 USC 373) makes it a crime to solicit, command, induce or 'endeavor to persuade' another person to commit a felony that includes the threat or use of physical force.

"Simply put, it is a crime to persuade another person, or a mob of several thousand, to commit a violent felony."

Good. I was worried you guys would wait until I was too old, before you kicked off the civil war.

Nice to see you are putting the pedal to the medal.

I would think that after the disaster on Jan. 6th carried out by lunatics talking about “civil war” to “take back the country” (some carrying Confederate flags), you would have learned a lesson. Wild accusations about “the other side” provoking civil war while your own side gins up its thugs for a “trial by combat” won’t fly anymore.

We’ve heard this talk all year long, before, during and after Trump was defeated. Hearing it now when what is necessary is fulsome denunciation of lunatic attempts at violent insurrection and domestic terrorism ... only makes you look like a hardcore Trump fanatic. Talk like this will only succeed in encouraging the “Security State” to pass draconian new domestic security legislation, and bring down more state repression ... on everyone.

Your willingness to allow Congress to grossly violate the Constitution will pave the way for such draconian measures.

To my mind there is absolutely no violation of the Constitution here. Impeachment is the bare minimum Trump deserves. There is nothing draconian whatever about this impeachment. It would be a betrayal of our Constitution not to impeach after Jan. 6th.

That aside, I believe impeachment is likely to play a bigger role in U.S. politics as our country’s social cohesion collapses under growing international competitive pressure. The chance of proxy wars with China and Russia is growing, and that too will divide our citizens.

I can see a time when impeachment almost inevitably occurs when one party holds the two Houses of Congress, but the other party holds the Presidency.. Sort of like in parliamentary systems in most of Europe, we may de facto institute a clumsy sort of “vote of no-confidence” recall procedure. That by itself doesn’t bother me, though party ultra-partisanship is of course very unfortunate.

Our Congress has been granting way too much power to “the imperial presidency” for decades. Of course neither party can “save us” from a mad and riotous voter base, big money domination of politics, or from a President gone berserk. The partisan deadlock in Congress indicates our Senators are not up to the job. It is simply not in the interest of the great corporations to allow real government “of the people, by the people, and for the people.”

Hatred is no excuse for violating the Constitution.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

I am not respecting the peaceful transfer of power either. I do not consider BIden's election to be legitimate nor do I consider him to be a legitimate President.

you don’t have to. who cares. 70% of Americans do not agree. And that includes the highest ranking Republican in the nation Mitch McConnel. The entire judicial system, and Vladimir Putin and the rest of the world’s leaders. The US military too. And my dog. The world does not care that you are stupid. Just don’t join a fucking insurrection and try to overturn Biden’s win. Something Q-ish us coming March 4 . We only care that you don’t do any violent stuff like that.

Now that Trump is a civilian if he thinks the election was stolen he should be suing who he thinks stole it from him.

You can thank me some day when you realize (like theQAnon Shaman) what a duped fool you’ve been staying loyal to that incompetent lying insurrectionist fascist jackass.

Where do you get "70%" from? If you're referring the people who voted for Biden, including the alledged votes, you're still talking about less than half the country. So, don't say 70% of Americans disagree.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Where do you get "70%" from? If you're referring the people who voted for Biden, including the alledged votes, you're still talking about less than half the country. So, don't say 70% of Americans disagree.

TrumpQ’s approval is at around 30% and that’sv what I’d bet believe the grand TrumoQ election fraud lie. Likewise Joe is at 62% approval and don’t think it’s a stretch that 8% more don’t approve believe he won a legitimate election fair sad square.

Mitch McConnell would be one of Those.

Maybe it’s still 80%
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Nearly 80% of Americans, including more than half of Republicans, recognize President-elect Joe Biden as the winner of the Nov. 3 election after most media organizations called the race for the Democrat based on his leads in critical battleground states, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll.


White House, ignoring Trump's ... - Reuters


Biden - who needed 270 Electoral College votes to win - had 279 of those votes to ... The poll also found that 72% think the loser of the election must concede defeat, ...

www.reuters.com › article › us-...
Half of Republicans say Biden won because of a 'rigged' election: Reuters/Ipsos poll ...

Nov 18, 2020 — Altogether, 73% of those polled agreed that Biden won the election while 5% thought Trump won. But when

 

[lantern2814]

The fact that this entire forum is very quiet shows that the Trumpers have zero case.

No, we have better things to do than listen to what is a foregone conclusion. Meaning that you lose again.

Isn't it your political cult that lost? You sound like a salty loser projecting his insecurities upon everybody else. What else is new?

You stupid fuck. This case is a foregone conclusion. You’ve already lost. Seems like you’re an idiot. Nothing new there.

 

[noonereal]

I just listened to the Senate Trial Presentations and have a few thoughts.

I agree and Progressive Marxist/DSA Democrat Leftists are doing their best to destroy the REPUBLIC....

1. The first House manager made a persuasive argument. His best argument was that Trump was in office when the alleged incitement happened and was in office when he was impeached. From that it follows that naturally the Senate must try the impeachment!
2. The third House manager presented much evidence totally hearsay and irrelevant, having nothing to do with Trump himself!
3. Trump's first lawyer better get a lot better. He was so dull and boring I finally had to FF skipping through most of his presentation looking for the meat! He kept making a case, if any, that sounded more like he was improving the House's argument rather than refuting it! He failed on the worst front: While talking about the horrible travesty of 1-6, he failed to point out that the people there and the riot that ensued had pre-planned the whole event and were not there because Trump "sent them," but that they were there because tens of millions of Americans object not only to how the election was run, but how all of the evidence of fraud has been denied and swept under the rug without any look at it much less vetting while claiming it was baseless. He failed to make the case that the real reason for the riot was the Democrats shoving an illegal and improper election down America's throats leaving tons of HUGE and serious questions and doubts remaining about it unanswered. Trump was fully in his rights to question it. Being at that rally that day merely set the stage for what had started out a rather peaceful ordinary protest that quickly, unfortunately grew out of control and the Dems want to hang it all on Trump to cover for their involvement. The only thing the guy said any good at all is that this is all really about trying to deprive America of the chance that Trump might run again because there is every credible chance HE WOULD WIN.
4. The 2nd Trump lawyer Schron was great and made fully the case that the trial is illegal, conclusively showed that the Constitution does NOT support it, and it will only rip the nation farther apart. He also conclusively showed how the House hastily threw the impeachment together without any fact finding or due process, and had sought for four years to demonize and impeach Trump for anything at all long before he had even done anything, indeed, nothing that Biden hasn't already done.
5. The six GOP voting to move ahead with the trial are the usual worthless RINO scum vermin traitors that make me hate the GOP and want to puke.

Trump's lawyers lost on the procedural basis to dismiss the trial as illegal. They will win on showing that Trump cannot be made wholly accountable for the riot, that he had not intended it and had every right to think, feel and say the things he did, but to do that, they better build the case for the real CAUSE of the riot: the highly specious election and its many unanswered questions which left 100 million people doubting an honest, fair and open election has been held.

IN THE END: Trump is really being put on trial for being a President of the People first, and putting them and their interests above and before his role in government. What is really being tried today and trying to be stopped is the populist movement of the millions totally dissatisfied with the government and their representatives rising up to take power from government and put is squarely back in the hands of its citizenry where it belongs.

I just hope no one including the author believes such drivel.

 

[toobfreak]

such drivel.

^^^^^

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

TrumpQ’s approval is at around 30% and that’sv what I’d bet believe the grand TrumoQ election fraud lie. Likewise Joe is at 62% approval and don’t think it’s a stretch that 8% more don’t approve believe he won a legitimate election fair sad square.

Mitch McConnell would be one of Those.

Maybe it’s still 80%
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Nearly 80% of Americans, including more than half of Republicans, recognize President-elect Joe Biden as the winner of the Nov. 3 election after most media organizations called the race for the Democrat based on his leads in critical battleground states, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll.


White House, ignoring Trump's ... - Reuters


Biden - who needed 270 Electoral College votes to win - had 279 of those votes to ... The poll also found that 72% think the loser of the election must concede defeat, ...

www.reuters.com › article › us-...
Half of Republicans say Biden won because of a 'rigged' election: Reuters/Ipsos poll ...

Nov 18, 2020 — Altogether, 73% of those polled agreed that Biden won the election while 5% thought Trump won. But when

Those polls don't querry 100% of the citizenry and what with the proven inaccuracy of polls means that the 70% claim is dubious at best.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

The fact that this entire forum is very quiet shows that the Trumpers have zero case.

No, we have better things to do than listen to what is a foregone conclusion. Meaning that you lose again.

Isn't it your political cult that lost? You sound like a salty loser projecting his insecurities upon everybody else. What else is new?

You stupid fuck. This case is a foregone conclusion. You’ve already lost. Seems like you’re an idiot. Nothing new there.

Oh, pipe down you moron. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Those polls don't querry 100% of the citizenry and what with the proven inaccuracy of polls means that the 70% claim is dubious at best.

What do you think it is if it is not around 75 percent. better to go by polls than listening to QAnon whackos.

 

[georgephillip]

New details about Trump-McCarthy shouting match show Trump refused to call off the rioters

"'Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are,' Trump said, according to lawmakers who were briefed on the call afterward by McCarthy.

"McCarthy insisted that the rioters were Trump's supporters and begged Trump to call them off.

"Trump's comment set off what Republican lawmakers familiar with the call described as a shouting match between the two men.

"A furious McCarthy told the President the rioters were breaking into his office through the windows, and asked Trump, 'Who the f--k do you think you are talking to?' according to a Republican lawmaker familiar with the call."

 

[BWK]

I just listened to the Senate Trial Presentations and have a few thoughts. Others will disagree, even violently. Listen to my thoughts, and then I’ll listen to yours...

The “House Managers” just refuted what I thought were preposterous Republican arguments that the Constitution won’t even allow for a trial of impeached ex-president Trump. I come away more than ever impressed with the Constitutional importance of what is now at stake.

This is not a ridiculous impeachment over lying about sex, or a hearing over the tragedy in Benghazi. This is about taking a stand against an out-of-control lame-duck President who tried to keep himself in office. This trial is about dealing with an attack on our whole democratic electoral system, on the Capitol itself. It is about re-asserting the power of Congress to stand against a mad President.

I personally have sometimes dreamt of seeing the impeachment and conviction of Presidents (of both parties) who lied and led us into murderous and totally unnecessary overseas military adventures. Of course these impeachments never happened. Yet now in D.C., in the heartland of our Republic and “empire,” political marketing and “America First” demagogy has succeeded ... in dividing the minds and hearts of Americans ... rather than Iraqis, Russians or Chinese.

Many of our own obsessions as a nation led to Jan. 6th, and its shadow will lie over our Republic for a long time. I think if this Senate doesn’t make an example of our most dangerous and outrageous recent demagogue we will be guaranteeing further more serious political mob action and even coup adventures in the future.

This is not a “show trial.” Well, just perhaps it will go down in history as a “show trial” ... if our people and politicians treat it as one. If few Republicans rise to the occasion and do their duty, if Donald Trump is not repudiated in the most severe Constitutional manner possible, then we are “showing” that we treat our great Republic and its institutions as crap.

It’s our Republic ... if we can keep it.

Too much evidence against Trump. He's guilty as hell. What was especially striking, is the fact that the defense was complaining about a lack of evidence, yet, when Raskin invited Trump to testify to clear his name, the lawyers said no. LOl! The prosecution reserves the right to present their evidence in the absence of the very witness that can supply the evidence. Trump and his dunce team of lawyers gave themselves away;

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

What do you think it is if it is not around 75 percent. better to go by polls than listening to QAnon whackos.

Only the Leftist nutjobs believe political polls. Wishful thinking much?

 

[BWK]

The fact that this entire forum is very quiet shows that the Trumpers have zero case.

We're not watching! LOL

You know Trump is guilty as hell, that's why.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

The fact that this entire forum is very quiet shows that the Trumpers have zero case.

We're not watching! LOL

You know Trump is guilty as hell, that's why.

Guilty of what?

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

I just listened to the Senate Trial Presentations and have a few thoughts. Others will disagree, even violently. Listen to my thoughts, and then I’ll listen to yours...

The “House Managers” just refuted what I thought were preposterous Republican arguments that the Constitution won’t even allow for a trial of impeached ex-president Trump. I come away more than ever impressed with the Constitutional importance of what is now at stake.

This is not a ridiculous impeachment over lying about sex, or a hearing over the tragedy in Benghazi. This is about taking a stand against an out-of-control lame-duck President who tried to keep himself in office. This trial is about dealing with an attack on our whole democratic electoral system, on the Capitol itself. It is about re-asserting the power of Congress to stand against a mad President.

I personally have sometimes dreamt of seeing the impeachment and conviction of Presidents (of both parties) who lied and led us into murderous and totally unnecessary overseas military adventures. Of course these impeachments never happened. Yet now in D.C., in the heartland of our Republic and “empire,” political marketing and “America First” demagogy has succeeded ... in dividing the minds and hearts of Americans ... rather than Iraqis, Russians or Chinese.

Many of our own obsessions as a nation led to Jan. 6th, and its shadow will lie over our Republic for a long time. I think if this Senate doesn’t make an example of our most dangerous and outrageous recent demagogue we will be guaranteeing further more serious political mob action and even coup adventures in the future.

This is not a “show trial.” Well, just perhaps it will go down in history as a “show trial” ... if our people and politicians treat it as one. If few Republicans rise to the occasion and do their duty, if Donald Trump is not repudiated in the most severe Constitutional manner possible, then we are “showing” that we treat our great Republic and its institutions as crap.

It’s our Republic ... if we can keep it.

Too much evidence against Trump. He's guilty as hell. What was especially striking, is the fact that the defense was complaining about a lack of evidence, yet, when Raskin invited Trump to testify to clear his name, the lawyers said no. LOl! The prosecution reserves the right to present their evidence in the absence of the very witness that can supply the evidence. Trump and his dunce team of lawyers gave themselves away;

If there's so much evidence, why did the impeachment managers resort to using falsified evidence?

 

[BWK]

The fact that this entire forum is very quiet shows that the Trumpers have zero case.

We're not watching! LOL

You know Trump is guilty as hell, that's why.

Guilty of what?

Inciting insurrection. Trump never did anything about the riot. That's all the evidence the prosecution needs in the absence and refusal of the defense to testify.

Daniel Goldman said this trial would have been over in thirty seconds to convict had it been a real trial. He is right.

 

[BWK]

I just listened to the Senate Trial Presentations and have a few thoughts. Others will disagree, even violently. Listen to my thoughts, and then I’ll listen to yours...

The “House Managers” just refuted what I thought were preposterous Republican arguments that the Constitution won’t even allow for a trial of impeached ex-president Trump. I come away more than ever impressed with the Constitutional importance of what is now at stake.

This is not a ridiculous impeachment over lying about sex, or a hearing over the tragedy in Benghazi. This is about taking a stand against an out-of-control lame-duck President who tried to keep himself in office. This trial is about dealing with an attack on our whole democratic electoral system, on the Capitol itself. It is about re-asserting the power of Congress to stand against a mad President.

I personally have sometimes dreamt of seeing the impeachment and conviction of Presidents (of both parties) who lied and led us into murderous and totally unnecessary overseas military adventures. Of course these impeachments never happened. Yet now in D.C., in the heartland of our Republic and “empire,” political marketing and “America First” demagogy has succeeded ... in dividing the minds and hearts of Americans ... rather than Iraqis, Russians or Chinese.

Many of our own obsessions as a nation led to Jan. 6th, and its shadow will lie over our Republic for a long time. I think if this Senate doesn’t make an example of our most dangerous and outrageous recent demagogue we will be guaranteeing further more serious political mob action and even coup adventures in the future.

This is not a “show trial.” Well, just perhaps it will go down in history as a “show trial” ... if our people and politicians treat it as one. If few Republicans rise to the occasion and do their duty, if Donald Trump is not repudiated in the most severe Constitutional manner possible, then we are “showing” that we treat our great Republic and its institutions as crap.

It’s our Republic ... if we can keep it.

Too much evidence against Trump. He's guilty as hell. What was especially striking, is the fact that the defense was complaining about a lack of evidence, yet, when Raskin invited Trump to testify to clear his name, the lawyers said no. LOl! The prosecution reserves the right to present their evidence in the absence of the very witness that can supply the evidence. Trump and his dunce team of lawyers gave themselves away;

If there's so much evidence, why did the impeachment managers resort to using falsified evidence?

There was no falsified evidence. That's something you made up in your head.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

I just listened to the Senate Trial Presentations and have a few thoughts. Others will disagree, even violently. Listen to my thoughts, and then I’ll listen to yours...

The “House Managers” just refuted what I thought were preposterous Republican arguments that the Constitution won’t even allow for a trial of impeached ex-president Trump. I come away more than ever impressed with the Constitutional importance of what is now at stake.

This is not a ridiculous impeachment over lying about sex, or a hearing over the tragedy in Benghazi. This is about taking a stand against an out-of-control lame-duck President who tried to keep himself in office. This trial is about dealing with an attack on our whole democratic electoral system, on the Capitol itself. It is about re-asserting the power of Congress to stand against a mad President.

I personally have sometimes dreamt of seeing the impeachment and conviction of Presidents (of both parties) who lied and led us into murderous and totally unnecessary overseas military adventures. Of course these impeachments never happened. Yet now in D.C., in the heartland of our Republic and “empire,” political marketing and “America First” demagogy has succeeded ... in dividing the minds and hearts of Americans ... rather than Iraqis, Russians or Chinese.

Many of our own obsessions as a nation led to Jan. 6th, and its shadow will lie over our Republic for a long time. I think if this Senate doesn’t make an example of our most dangerous and outrageous recent demagogue we will be guaranteeing further more serious political mob action and even coup adventures in the future.

This is not a “show trial.” Well, just perhaps it will go down in history as a “show trial” ... if our people and politicians treat it as one. If few Republicans rise to the occasion and do their duty, if Donald Trump is not repudiated in the most severe Constitutional manner possible, then we are “showing” that we treat our great Republic and its institutions as crap.

It’s our Republic ... if we can keep it.

Too much evidence against Trump. He's guilty as hell. What was especially striking, is the fact that the defense was complaining about a lack of evidence, yet, when Raskin invited Trump to testify to clear his name, the lawyers said no. LOl! The prosecution reserves the right to present their evidence in the absence of the very witness that can supply the evidence. Trump and his dunce team of lawyers gave themselves away;

If there's so much evidence, why did the impeachment managers resort to using falsified evidence?

There was no falsified evidence. That's something you made up in your head.

The impeachment managers used an edited video as their number one piece of evidence: the "goods" as they called it.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

The fact that this entire forum is very quiet shows that the Trumpers have zero case.

We're not watching! LOL

You know Trump is guilty as hell, that's why.

Guilty of what?

Inciting insurrection. Trump never did anything about the riot. That's all the evidence the prosecution needs in the absence and refusal of the defense to testify.

Daniel Goldman said this trial would have been over in thirty seconds to convict had it been a real trial. He is right.

Oh, NOW you want him to stop a riot?...lol

It's not a real trial and won't be, because he didn't commit a crime

 

[BWK]

The fact that this entire forum is very quiet shows that the Trumpers have zero case.

No, we have better things to do than listen to what is a foregone conclusion. Meaning that you lose again.

Isn't it your political cult that lost? You sound like a salty loser projecting his insecurities upon everybody else. What else is new?

You stupid fuck. This case is a foregone conclusion. You’ve already lost. Seems like you’re an idiot. Nothing new there.

This trial isn't about losing. It's about exposing the traitors to this country within the GOP. We have confirmed who they are. It was always known they wouldn't convict. But now they were brought out into the open. That's what was won. They will be labeled forever.