What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Ray From Cleveland]

and if he's found guilty of that again, I have no problem locking him up for five years...

But he didn't murder that woman, that was the point, it was an accident.

They didn't charge him with half the stuff they should have, and that's my point. Even if he got away with the MURDER, they should have already charged him with illegal entry, tampering with evidence, receiving stolen property. They should have thrown the book at him and at least have him serve ten years for the other charges to give the family some comfort.

They had that option, they chose not to because the facts didn't support it.

No, it's because California is loaded with commies and minorities.

Wait a minute, you gun nuts claim guns are a God Given Right!

Try to keep your story straight.

No, we said it was a Constitutional right. Keep your story straight.

 

[danielpalos]

Natural rights are in State Constitutions, not our federal Constitution.

 

[Flopper]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

When the statue of liberty was erected, there wasn’t any such thing as “illegal” or “legal” immigration to the United States. That’s because before you can immigrate somewhere illegally, there has to be a law for you to break.

In the 19th century, immigration was limited by a person's ability to pay for passage to America. There were no visas and passports were not required. If you came 1st class, or 2nd class, immigration was just a formality. You filled out an immigration document stating that you weren't an anarchist, had the means of supporting yourself, were in good health, signed the document and you were admired. If you couldn't afford 1st or 2nd class passage, you went to Ellis Island where you were asked a number of questions to determine if you should be allowed in the country. Then you were giving a physical. If you passed you were admitted.

Prior to 1924, there was no border patrol, so people just wandered back forth across our southern boarder at will. After 1924, border crossings were created and Mexicans were required to have a visa or other such documents. However, that was just a method of keeping track of who entered the country. As long you crossed through a boarder crossing and weren't bringing in contraband, you were admitted. You could apply for citizenship or you could just live in the country as long as you liked. That all changed with the 1965 immigration legislation.

So what we think of as illegal immigration started less than a hundred years. For most the history of the nation, we have had open boarders in regard to immigration.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

When the statue of liberty was erected, there wasn’t any such thing as “illegal” or “legal” immigration to the United States. That’s because before you can immigrate somewhere illegally, there has to be a law for you to break.

In the 19th century, immigration was limited by a person's ability to pay for passage to America. There were no visas and passports were not required. If you came 1st class, or 2nd class, immigration was just a formality. You filled out an immigration document stating that you weren't an anarchist, had the means of supporting yourself, were in good health, signed the document and you were admired. If you couldn't afford 1st or 2nd class passage, you went to Ellis Island where you were asked a number of questions to determine if you should be allowed in the country. Then you were giving a physical. If you passed you were admitted.

Prior to 1924, there was no border patrol, so people just wandered back forth across our southern boarder at will. After 1924, border crossings were created and Mexicans were required to have a visa or other such documents. However, that was just a method of keeping track of who entered the country. As long you crossed through a boarder crossing and weren't bringing in contraband, you were admitted. You could apply for citizenship or you could just live in the country as long as you liked. That all changed with the 1965 immigration legislation.

So what we think of as illegal immigration started less than a hundred years. For most the history of the nation, we have had open boarders in regard to immigration.

Correct, but that was not a time when we had 315 million people and growing. Nor was it a time when we had millions instead of thousands coming here.

At one time, cocaine was legal, but as time went on, we made it illegal because when consumed by large amounts of people, it became a problem

And now we are having problems with too many foreigners in this country. They ruin neighborhoods, bring in crime and drugs, keep our pay scales down, and are turning us into a bilingual country against our wishes.

 

[Coyote]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

If that's the case, move it back to Europe.

 

[WEATHER53]

It’s a great symbol to the peoples following the path of legal entrance Into this country.
Its not in a desert with an “EveryonevWelcome” sign on it
Obeying the law is easy. Why do liberals find it hard?

 

[Coyote]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

If that's the case, move it back to Europe.

No. It is a symbol of our country, even if some don’t see it.

 

[Coyote]

It’s a great symbol to the peoples following the path of legal entrance to this country.
Its not in a desert with an “Everyobe Welcome” sign on it
Obeying the law is easy. Why do liberals find it hard?

She has nothing to do with laws that were innacted long after she came here.

She has not changed.

You have.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

If that's the case, move it back to Europe.

No. It is a symbol of our country, even if some don’t see it.

If you think it's a symbol of anybody who wants to come here can, then it's useless to us and not a real symbol of our country.

Ours is a country of law and order. That's the way it was founded and that's the way it should remain.

 

[Flopper]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

When the statue of liberty was erected, there wasn’t any such thing as “illegal” or “legal” immigration to the United States. That’s because before you can immigrate somewhere illegally, there has to be a law for you to break.

In the 19th century, immigration was limited by a person's ability to pay for passage to America. There were no visas and passports were not required. If you came 1st class, or 2nd class, immigration was just a formality. You filled out an immigration document stating that you weren't an anarchist, had the means of supporting yourself, were in good health, signed the document and you were admired. If you couldn't afford 1st or 2nd class passage, you went to Ellis Island where you were asked a number of questions to determine if you should be allowed in the country. Then you were giving a physical. If you passed you were admitted.

Prior to 1924, there was no border patrol, so people just wandered back forth across our southern boarder at will. After 1924, border crossings were created and Mexicans were required to have a visa or other such documents. However, that was just a method of keeping track of who entered the country. As long you crossed through a boarder crossing and weren't bringing in contraband, you were admitted. You could apply for citizenship or you could just live in the country as long as you liked. That all changed with the 1965 immigration legislation.

So what we think of as illegal immigration started less than a hundred years. For most the history of the nation, we have had open boarders in regard to immigration.

Correct, but that was not a time when we had 315 million people and growing. Nor was it a time when we had millions instead of thousands coming here.

At one time, cocaine was legal, but as time went on, we made it illegal because when consumed by large amounts of people, it became a problem

And now we are having problems with too many foreigners in this country. They ruin neighborhoods, bring in crime and drugs, keep our pay scales down, and are turning us into a bilingual country against our wishes.

A large segment of America, which you seem to be one of refuses to accept that legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and other lawfully present people from other countries — 76 percent of all immigrants in the U.S., according to the Pew Research Center — simply work or go to school and lead totally ordinary lives. These immigrants contribute to the economy, fund the Social Security program, etc., etc., etc., and otherwise just mind their own business.

They have lower crime rates in most categories than native born Americans, 51% speak English effectively, and compared to illegal immigrants, they assimilate rapidly into our culture. 80% of their children born in the US will not only speak English but speak it fluently. 40% of their children will marry outside of their ethnicity and their children will be as American as apple pie.

The question is why do so many Americans hate foreigners and come up with all these stereotypes that go against facts when most Americans are only 3 or 4 generations away from being immigrants?

I think there are two reason. First, Americans travel far less than most industrialized countries and are not exposed to other cultures. According to a Victorinox Survey. 11% of Americans have never left their home state. 34% have visited less than 10 states and 40% have never left the country and an amazing 73% have never visited more than 2 foreign countries. Secondly, they confuse cultures. They don't know the difference between Indians and Arabs. They confuse Mexicans with Native Americans. And don't see any difference between illegal and legal Hispanics. I guess it's a combination of racism and xenophobia.

Face facts: Immigrants commit fewer crimes than U.S.-born peers
https://nypost.com/2018/01/11/a-shocking-number-of-americans-never-leave-home/

 

[JoeB131]

They didn't charge him with half the stuff they should have, and that's my point. Even if he got away with the MURDER, they should have already charged him with illegal entry, tampering with evidence, receiving stolen property. They should have thrown the book at him and at least have him serve ten years for the other charges to give the family some comfort.

It isn't about "giving the family some comfort", it's about whether he did what he was charged with... which he wasn't.

No, it's because California is loaded with commies and minorities.

You can fume all day, but the point was, the jury came up with a decision based on the facts presented, not whatever angry shit you heard on Hate Radio.

Correct, but that was not a time when we had 315 million people and growing. Nor was it a time when we had millions instead of thousands coming here.

The thing is, we need immigration because white people aren't producing enough babies to support the old angry white people who are retiring.

At one time, cocaine was legal, but as time went on, we made it illegal because when consumed by large amounts of people, it became a problem

Right. Because after white people introduced it to minorities to get them to work harder, some of them started using it recreationally.

Of course, we could show a lick of sense and treat drug addiction as a medical problem instead of a criminal one.

 

[danielpalos]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

If that's the case, move it back to Europe.

The French gave it to us. Coincidence or conspiracy?

 

[danielpalos]

It’s a great symbol to the peoples following the path of legal entrance Into this country.
Its not in a desert with an “EveryonevWelcome” sign on it
Obeying the law is easy. Why do liberals find it hard?

y'all have nothing but fake news and can't even obey Ten simple Commandments to reduce the cost of Government.

 

[danielpalos]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

If that's the case, move it back to Europe.

No. It is a symbol of our country, even if some don’t see it.

If you think it's a symbol of anybody who wants to come here can, then it's useless to us and not a real symbol of our country.

Ours is a country of law and order. That's the way it was founded and that's the way it should remain.

lol. how do you think most of y'all, got here.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

When the statue of liberty was erected, there wasn’t any such thing as “illegal” or “legal” immigration to the United States. That’s because before you can immigrate somewhere illegally, there has to be a law for you to break.

In the 19th century, immigration was limited by a person's ability to pay for passage to America. There were no visas and passports were not required. If you came 1st class, or 2nd class, immigration was just a formality. You filled out an immigration document stating that you weren't an anarchist, had the means of supporting yourself, were in good health, signed the document and you were admired. If you couldn't afford 1st or 2nd class passage, you went to Ellis Island where you were asked a number of questions to determine if you should be allowed in the country. Then you were giving a physical. If you passed you were admitted.

Prior to 1924, there was no border patrol, so people just wandered back forth across our southern boarder at will. After 1924, border crossings were created and Mexicans were required to have a visa or other such documents. However, that was just a method of keeping track of who entered the country. As long you crossed through a boarder crossing and weren't bringing in contraband, you were admitted. You could apply for citizenship or you could just live in the country as long as you liked. That all changed with the 1965 immigration legislation.

So what we think of as illegal immigration started less than a hundred years. For most the history of the nation, we have had open boarders in regard to immigration.

Not exactly true. The United States, and before it the Colonies, have always had laws of varying sorts regarding who could come in and live.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

Nope. It belongs to the United States, not to "everyone".

And I am immensely tired of hearing endlessly about a poem as though it not only has the force of law, but actually overrules the REAL laws.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

If that's the case, move it back to Europe.

No. It is a symbol of our country, even if some don’t see it.

Yes, and since the country it symbolizes has LAWS, it's rather disrespectful to the pretty statue you seem to think is THE last and only word on immigration to ignore the law, isn't it?

 

[Cecilie1200]

It’s a great symbol to the peoples following the path of legal entrance to this country.
Its not in a desert with an “Everyobe Welcome” sign on it
Obeying the law is easy. Why do liberals find it hard?

She has nothing to do with laws that were innacted long after she came here.

She has not changed.

You have.

She's. A. Statue. We could have ten fancy statues in the damned harbor, and they STILL would have fuck and all to do with the law.

I realize it fits in with your airy-fairy, "no logic, FEELZ!" worldview to act like laws should be based on poems and sightseeing landmarks, but I do hope you'll excuse the rest of us if we think running our nation ought to involve boring stuff like facts and realities and rule of law.

 

[Coyote]

It’s a great symbol to the peoples following the path of legal entrance to this country.
Its not in a desert with an “Everyobe Welcome” sign on it
Obeying the law is easy. Why do liberals find it hard?

She has nothing to do with laws that were innacted long after she came here.

She has not changed.

You have.

She's. A. Statue. We could have ten fancy statues in the damned harbor, and they STILL would have fuck and all to do with the law.

I realize it fits in with your airy-fairy, "no logic, FEELZ!" worldview to act like laws should be based on poems and sightseeing landmarks, but I do hope you'll excuse the rest of us if we think running our nation ought to involve boring stuff like facts and realities and rule of law.

Tell that to Weather, he brought her up. In the mean time take your irrational rant and stuff it