What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Flopper]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

When the statue of liberty was erected, there wasn’t any such thing as “illegal” or “legal” immigration to the United States. That’s because before you can immigrate somewhere illegally, there has to be a law for you to break.

In the 19th century, immigration was limited by a person's ability to pay for passage to America. There were no visas and passports were not required. If you came 1st class, or 2nd class, immigration was just a formality. You filled out an immigration document stating that you weren't an anarchist, had the means of supporting yourself, were in good health, signed the document and you were admired. If you couldn't afford 1st or 2nd class passage, you went to Ellis Island where you were asked a number of questions to determine if you should be allowed in the country. Then you were giving a physical. If you passed you were admitted.

Prior to 1924, there was no border patrol, so people just wandered back forth across our southern boarder at will. After 1924, border crossings were created and Mexicans were required to have a visa or other such documents. However, that was just a method of keeping track of who entered the country. As long you crossed through a boarder crossing and weren't bringing in contraband, you were admitted. You could apply for citizenship or you could just live in the country as long as you liked. That all changed with the 1965 immigration legislation.

So what we think of as illegal immigration started less than a hundred years. For most the history of the nation, we have had open boarders in regard to immigration.

Not exactly true. The United States, and before it the Colonies, have always had laws of varying sorts regarding who could come in and live.

Yes, there have been laws that exclude certain groups of people such as those that appear to be carrying communicable diseases, people unable to work, anarchist, and criminals and at times there have been laws that excludes certain nationalities such as the Chinese in part of the 19th century. However, it was not until the 20th century that most all nationalities would be restricted. Before then, our boarders were open to all nationalities with few exceptions.

The 1965 immigration laws added quotas which effectively blocked immigration from some countries, and servery restricted others. I've always found it strange that in an era in which we passed the civil rights act that forbid discrimination based national origin, that the goverment would pass a law that did exactly that.

 

[Coyote]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

If that's the case, move it back to Europe.

No. It is a symbol of our country, even if some don’t see it.

Yes, and since the country it symbolizes has LAWS, it's rather disrespectful to the pretty statue you seem to think is THE last and only word on immigration to ignore the law, isn't it?

You have no idea what I think do you Nor do you have a clue what the symbolism is. Let me clue you in on something - your Messiah doesn't like LEGAL immigration either. He's looking for all kinds of ways to send strip legal immigrants of their status.

 

[Coyote]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

Nope. It belongs to the United States, not to "everyone".

And I am immensely tired of hearing endlessly about a poem as though it not only has the force of law, but actually overrules the REAL laws.

Who cares what you think? You aren't the last word on immigration, or what the statue means or what America stands for.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You can fume all day, but the point was, the jury came up with a decision based on the facts presented, not whatever angry shit you heard on Hate Radio.

I'm not fuming, just don't like that this innocent American died in vain. If anything, her story is what puts more people on our side; the very idea that some Americans would rather see a criminal let go than to serve rightful justice is what angers real Americans.

The thing is, we need immigration because white people aren't producing enough babies to support the old angry white people who are retiring.

So who said we have to produce anything? That's just what your puppet masters at the DNC told you and you believe them. Nothing wrong with a country that has 280, 230 or even 175 million people. See, your party won't tell you what their real reason is, so they hoodwink their blind followers with all kinds of BS stories like we need more people in this country. There is no truth to it. The truth is they don't want any opposition in the future. They want a one-party country where they rule everything with no threats of ever losing power. Because trust me, if these CA and Mexicans were known to vote strongly Republican, that wall would have been up in the Carter years and our border patrol would be three times the size today.

Right. Because after white people introduced it to minorities to get them to work harder, some of them started using it recreationally.

Of course, we could show a lick of sense and treat drug addiction as a medical problem instead of a criminal one.

Actually we do both, but rehab seldom works. It's a waste of time and money.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

When the statue of liberty was erected, there wasn’t any such thing as “illegal” or “legal” immigration to the United States. That’s because before you can immigrate somewhere illegally, there has to be a law for you to break.

In the 19th century, immigration was limited by a person's ability to pay for passage to America. There were no visas and passports were not required. If you came 1st class, or 2nd class, immigration was just a formality. You filled out an immigration document stating that you weren't an anarchist, had the means of supporting yourself, were in good health, signed the document and you were admired. If you couldn't afford 1st or 2nd class passage, you went to Ellis Island where you were asked a number of questions to determine if you should be allowed in the country. Then you were giving a physical. If you passed you were admitted.

Prior to 1924, there was no border patrol, so people just wandered back forth across our southern boarder at will. After 1924, border crossings were created and Mexicans were required to have a visa or other such documents. However, that was just a method of keeping track of who entered the country. As long you crossed through a boarder crossing and weren't bringing in contraband, you were admitted. You could apply for citizenship or you could just live in the country as long as you liked. That all changed with the 1965 immigration legislation.

So what we think of as illegal immigration started less than a hundred years. For most the history of the nation, we have had open boarders in regard to immigration.

Correct, but that was not a time when we had 315 million people and growing. Nor was it a time when we had millions instead of thousands coming here.

At one time, cocaine was legal, but as time went on, we made it illegal because when consumed by large amounts of people, it became a problem

And now we are having problems with too many foreigners in this country. They ruin neighborhoods, bring in crime and drugs, keep our pay scales down, and are turning us into a bilingual country against our wishes.

A large segment of America, which you seem to be one of refuses to accept that legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and other lawfully present people from other countries — 76 percent of all immigrants in the U.S., according to the Pew Research Center — simply work or go to school and lead totally ordinary lives. These immigrants contribute to the economy, fund the Social Security program, etc., etc., etc., and otherwise just mind their own business.

They have lower crime rates in most categories than native born Americans, 51% speak English effectively, and compared to illegal immigrants, they assimilate rapidly into our culture. 80% of their children born in the US will not only speak English but speak it fluently. 40% of their children will marry outside of their ethnicity and their children will be as American as apple pie.

The question is why do so many Americans hate foreigners and come up with all these stereotypes that go against facts when most Americans are only 3 or 4 generations away from being immigrants?

I think there are two reason. First, Americans travel far less than most industrialized countries and are not exposed to other cultures. According to a Victorinox Survey. 11% of Americans have never left their home state. 34% have visited less than 10 states and 40% have never left the country and an amazing 73% have never visited more than 2 foreign countries. Secondly, they confuse cultures. They don't know the difference between Indians and Arabs. They confuse Mexicans with Native Americans. And don't see any difference between illegal and legal Hispanics. I guess it's a combination of racism and xenophobia.

Face facts: Immigrants commit fewer crimes than U.S.-born peers
https://nypost.com/2018/01/11/a-shocking-number-of-americans-never-leave-home/

Of course, that must be it. It certainly can't be because of the drugs, the crime, the changing of our language, the taking of our jobs, the stagnant wages for Americans. It must be Xenophobia and racism.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It’s a great symbol to the peoples following the path of legal entrance to this country.
Its not in a desert with an “Everyobe Welcome” sign on it
Obeying the law is easy. Why do liberals find it hard?

She has nothing to do with laws that were innacted long after she came here.

She has not changed.

You have.

She's. A. Statue. We could have ten fancy statues in the damned harbor, and they STILL would have fuck and all to do with the law.

I realize it fits in with your airy-fairy, "no logic, FEELZ!" worldview to act like laws should be based on poems and sightseeing landmarks, but I do hope you'll excuse the rest of us if we think running our nation ought to involve boring stuff like facts and realities and rule of law.

Tell that to Weather, he brought her up. In the mean time take your irrational rant and stuff it

I just heard you say, "I can't defend my multi-post rant about how the Statue of Liberty requires open borders, so . . . it's someone else's fault, and YOU'RE MEAN!"

 

[Cecilie1200]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

When the statue of liberty was erected, there wasn’t any such thing as “illegal” or “legal” immigration to the United States. That’s because before you can immigrate somewhere illegally, there has to be a law for you to break.

In the 19th century, immigration was limited by a person's ability to pay for passage to America. There were no visas and passports were not required. If you came 1st class, or 2nd class, immigration was just a formality. You filled out an immigration document stating that you weren't an anarchist, had the means of supporting yourself, were in good health, signed the document and you were admired. If you couldn't afford 1st or 2nd class passage, you went to Ellis Island where you were asked a number of questions to determine if you should be allowed in the country. Then you were giving a physical. If you passed you were admitted.

Prior to 1924, there was no border patrol, so people just wandered back forth across our southern boarder at will. After 1924, border crossings were created and Mexicans were required to have a visa or other such documents. However, that was just a method of keeping track of who entered the country. As long you crossed through a boarder crossing and weren't bringing in contraband, you were admitted. You could apply for citizenship or you could just live in the country as long as you liked. That all changed with the 1965 immigration legislation.

So what we think of as illegal immigration started less than a hundred years. For most the history of the nation, we have had open boarders in regard to immigration.

Not exactly true. The United States, and before it the Colonies, have always had laws of varying sorts regarding who could come in and live.

Yes, there have been laws that exclude certain groups of people such those that appear to be carrying communicable diseases, people unable to work, anarchist, and criminals and at times there have been laws that excludes certain nationalities such as the Chinese in part of the 19th century. However, it was not until the 20th century that most all nationalities would be restricted. Before then, our boarders were open to all nationalities with few exceptions.

The 1965 immigration laws added quotas which effectively blocked immigration from some countries, and servery restricted others. I've always found it strange that in an era in which we passed the civil rights act that forbid discrimination based national origin, that the goverment would pass a law that did exactly that.

Admittedly, one doesn't have to restrict immigration from other countries until people actually WANT to come from other countries. Nevertheless, we have quite a long and steady history of restricting people who are not in OUR best interests. At no point in time have we felt obligated to let whoever wanted to show up and make themselves at home.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

Nope. It belongs to the United States, not to "everyone".

And I am immensely tired of hearing endlessly about a poem as though it not only has the force of law, but actually overrules the REAL laws.

Who cares what you think? You aren't the last word on immigration, or what the statue means or what America stands for.

We know what it stands for--Independence. This is obvious by the tablet the statue is holding marking the day we adopted the Declaration of Independence. The poor the weary stuff was added later on, but that's not why it was built:

What is the quote on the statue of liberty?

There are several phrases associated with the Statue of Liberty, but the most recognizable is “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.

In the early 1900s and after Lazarus’ death, one of her friends began a campaign to memorialize Lazarus and her New Colossus sonnet. The effort was a success, and a plaque with the poem’s text was mounted inside the pedestal of the statute.

What is the quote on the statue of liberty? · How Tall is the Statue of Liberty?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

Nope. It belongs to the United States, not to "everyone".

And I am immensely tired of hearing endlessly about a poem as though it not only has the force of law, but actually overrules the REAL laws.

Who cares what you think? You aren't the last word on immigration, or what the statue means or what America stands for.

We know what it stands for--Independence. This is obvious by the tablet the statue is holding marking the day we adopted the Declaration of Independence. The poor the weary stuff was added later on, but that's not why it was built:

What is the quote on the statue of liberty?

There are several phrases associated with the Statue of Liberty, but the most recognizable is “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.

In the early 1900s and after Lazarus’ death, one of her friends began a campaign to memorialize Lazarus and her New Colossus sonnet. The effort was a success, and a plaque with the poem’s text was mounted inside the pedestal of the statute.

What is the quote on the statue of liberty? · How Tall is the Statue of Liberty?

And this apparently cannot be said enough:

It's just a poem. Has no force of law whatsoever.

 

[danielpalos]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

Nope. It belongs to the United States, not to "everyone".

And I am immensely tired of hearing endlessly about a poem as though it not only has the force of law, but actually overrules the REAL laws.

Who cares what you think? You aren't the last word on immigration, or what the statue means or what America stands for.

We know what it stands for--Independence. This is obvious by the tablet the statue is holding marking the day we adopted the Declaration of Independence. The poor the weary stuff was added later on, but that's not why it was built:

What is the quote on the statue of liberty?

There are several phrases associated with the Statue of Liberty, but the most recognizable is “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.

In the early 1900s and after Lazarus’ death, one of her friends began a campaign to memorialize Lazarus and her New Colossus sonnet. The effort was a success, and a plaque with the poem’s text was mounted inside the pedestal of the statute.

What is the quote on the statue of liberty? · How Tall is the Statue of Liberty?

The Romans should have expanded and offered free land to new settlers.

 

[Flopper]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

When the statue of liberty was erected, there wasn’t any such thing as “illegal” or “legal” immigration to the United States. That’s because before you can immigrate somewhere illegally, there has to be a law for you to break.

In the 19th century, immigration was limited by a person's ability to pay for passage to America. There were no visas and passports were not required. If you came 1st class, or 2nd class, immigration was just a formality. You filled out an immigration document stating that you weren't an anarchist, had the means of supporting yourself, were in good health, signed the document and you were admired. If you couldn't afford 1st or 2nd class passage, you went to Ellis Island where you were asked a number of questions to determine if you should be allowed in the country. Then you were giving a physical. If you passed you were admitted.

Prior to 1924, there was no border patrol, so people just wandered back forth across our southern boarder at will. After 1924, border crossings were created and Mexicans were required to have a visa or other such documents. However, that was just a method of keeping track of who entered the country. As long you crossed through a boarder crossing and weren't bringing in contraband, you were admitted. You could apply for citizenship or you could just live in the country as long as you liked. That all changed with the 1965 immigration legislation.

So what we think of as illegal immigration started less than a hundred years. For most the history of the nation, we have had open boarders in regard to immigration.

Correct, but that was not a time when we had 315 million people and growing. Nor was it a time when we had millions instead of thousands coming here.

At one time, cocaine was legal, but as time went on, we made it illegal because when consumed by large amounts of people, it became a problem

And now we are having problems with too many foreigners in this country. They ruin neighborhoods, bring in crime and drugs, keep our pay scales down, and are turning us into a bilingual country against our wishes.

A large segment of America, which you seem to be one of refuses to accept that legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and other lawfully present people from other countries — 76 percent of all immigrants in the U.S., according to the Pew Research Center — simply work or go to school and lead totally ordinary lives. These immigrants contribute to the economy, fund the Social Security program, etc., etc., etc., and otherwise just mind their own business.

They have lower crime rates in most categories than native born Americans, 51% speak English effectively, and compared to illegal immigrants, they assimilate rapidly into our culture. 80% of their children born in the US will not only speak English but speak it fluently. 40% of their children will marry outside of their ethnicity and their children will be as American as apple pie.

The question is why do so many Americans hate foreigners and come up with all these stereotypes that go against facts when most Americans are only 3 or 4 generations away from being immigrants?

I think there are two reason. First, Americans travel far less than most industrialized countries and are not exposed to other cultures. According to a Victorinox Survey. 11% of Americans have never left their home state. 34% have visited less than 10 states and 40% have never left the country and an amazing 73% have never visited more than 2 foreign countries. Secondly, they confuse cultures. They don't know the difference between Indians and Arabs. They confuse Mexicans with Native Americans. And don't see any difference between illegal and legal Hispanics. I guess it's a combination of racism and xenophobia.

Face facts: Immigrants commit fewer crimes than U.S.-born peers
https://nypost.com/2018/01/11/a-shocking-number-of-americans-never-leave-home/

Of course, that must be it. It certainly can't be because of the drugs, the crime, the changing of our language, the taking of our jobs, the stagnant wages for Americans. It must be Xenophobia and racism.

I think the xenophobia and racism is responsible for the stereotypes that you keep falling back on. Legal immigrants in the US are less likely to be arrested for drugs or alcohol, and less likely to be arrested for most criminal acts than native born Americans.

If legal immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans, it means employers are getting better employees. If not, they wouldn't be hiring them. This is exactly what we want and need, people that will make the nation more productive.

For too long, we have been attracting the greatest young minds in the world to our universities then sending them back home in 60 days rather than joining American companies and kicking the shit out of foreign competition.

A kid from Indian rented a unit in our condo last month. He just graduated from Caltech with a masters in computer science. He got his BS from Stanford in Math and graduated in the top 10% of his Class. Microsoft wanted to hire him but because H2b Visas are limited, the company can't get his visa before his 60 days runs out which means he would have to stay in the country illegally to wait for the Visa. So he and his wife will go back to Indian and accept an offer from a major tech firm that competes with Microsoft, a victory for the alt right, and a loss for America.

 

[Flopper]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

When the statue of liberty was erected, there wasn’t any such thing as “illegal” or “legal” immigration to the United States. That’s because before you can immigrate somewhere illegally, there has to be a law for you to break.

In the 19th century, immigration was limited by a person's ability to pay for passage to America. There were no visas and passports were not required. If you came 1st class, or 2nd class, immigration was just a formality. You filled out an immigration document stating that you weren't an anarchist, had the means of supporting yourself, were in good health, signed the document and you were admired. If you couldn't afford 1st or 2nd class passage, you went to Ellis Island where you were asked a number of questions to determine if you should be allowed in the country. Then you were giving a physical. If you passed you were admitted.

Prior to 1924, there was no border patrol, so people just wandered back forth across our southern boarder at will. After 1924, border crossings were created and Mexicans were required to have a visa or other such documents. However, that was just a method of keeping track of who entered the country. As long you crossed through a boarder crossing and weren't bringing in contraband, you were admitted. You could apply for citizenship or you could just live in the country as long as you liked. That all changed with the 1965 immigration legislation.

So what we think of as illegal immigration started less than a hundred years. For most the history of the nation, we have had open boarders in regard to immigration.

Not exactly true. The United States, and before it the Colonies, have always had laws of varying sorts regarding who could come in and live.

Yes, there have been laws that exclude certain groups of people such those that appear to be carrying communicable diseases, people unable to work, anarchist, and criminals and at times there have been laws that excludes certain nationalities such as the Chinese in part of the 19th century. However, it was not until the 20th century that most all nationalities would be restricted. Before then, our boarders were open to all nationalities with few exceptions.

The 1965 immigration laws added quotas which effectively blocked immigration from some countries, and servery restricted others. I've always found it strange that in an era in which we passed the civil rights act that forbid discrimination based national origin, that the goverment would pass a law that did exactly that.

Admittedly, one doesn't have to restrict immigration from other countries until people actually WANT to come from other countries. Nevertheless, we have quite a long and steady history of restricting people who are not in OUR best interests. At no point in time have we felt obligated to let whoever wanted to show up and make themselves at home.

I don't think our immigration system restricts people in our best interest. The system is highly automated to minimize costs. It's purpose is not to select the best but to avoid the worst. The primary criteria for immigration is nationality, having a relative in the US to sponsor you, a clean criminal record, and not being on a terrorist watch list.

I believe the ideal immigration system should be constructed as follows.

• We immigrate about a million people each year. That needs to double. That's would only be .6% of the population or 6% over 10 years.
• We need to recruit immigrants. Yes, you heard me right. If we want good people we need to tell the world. This has been done in other countries and has worked. The image of US immigration abroad is we don't want you, don't need you, and don't come. I spoke at length with friends in Germany and England about this. The consensus seem to be Americans only want people to pick fruit and clean their homes. Why should I go to all the hassle when they really don't want me?
• We spend about 7 billion on immigration. About 90% goes to enforcement and most of the rest goes to administration with very little actually going to selecting who gets to immigrate. That needs to change. We need to actually investigate immigrants, check references, conduct in depth interviews, not 20 mins with 10 mins devoted checking forms.
• Lastly, total immigration for the year should be as firm as possible but country quotas should be guidelines. In other words, we should give up this nonsense that congress has this God given ability to determine which countries will yield the best citizens. That should be determined based on individual qualifications of applicants.

 

[Coyote]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

Nope. It belongs to the United States, not to "everyone".

And I am immensely tired of hearing endlessly about a poem as though it not only has the force of law, but actually overrules the REAL laws.

Who cares what you think? You aren't the last word on immigration, or what the statue means or what America stands for.

We know what it stands for--Independence. This is obvious by the tablet the statue is holding marking the day we adopted the Declaration of Independence. The poor the weary stuff was added later on, but that's not why it was built:

What is the quote on the statue of liberty?

There are several phrases associated with the Statue of Liberty, but the most recognizable is “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.

In the early 1900s and after Lazarus’ death, one of her friends began a campaign to memorialize Lazarus and her New Colossus sonnet. The effort was a success, and a plaque with the poem’s text was mounted inside the pedestal of the statute.

What is the quote on the statue of liberty? · How Tall is the Statue of Liberty?

And this apparently cannot be said enough:

It's just a poem. Has no force of law whatsoever.

I don’t think any one said it did.

 

[Coyote]

It’s a great symbol to the peoples following the path of legal entrance to this country.
Its not in a desert with an “Everyobe Welcome” sign on it
Obeying the law is easy. Why do liberals find it hard?

She has nothing to do with laws that were innacted long after she came here.

She has not changed.

You have.

She's. A. Statue. We could have ten fancy statues in the damned harbor, and they STILL would have fuck and all to do with the law.

I realize it fits in with your airy-fairy, "no logic, FEELZ!" worldview to act like laws should be based on poems and sightseeing landmarks, but I do hope you'll excuse the rest of us if we think running our nation ought to involve boring stuff like facts and realities and rule of law.

Tell that to Weather, he brought her up. In the mean time take your irrational rant and stuff it

I just heard you say, "I can't defend my multi-post rant about how the Statue of Liberty requires open borders, so . . . it's someone else's fault, and YOU'RE MEAN!"

Nope, those were your words

 

[Cecilie1200]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

When the statue of liberty was erected, there wasn’t any such thing as “illegal” or “legal” immigration to the United States. That’s because before you can immigrate somewhere illegally, there has to be a law for you to break.

In the 19th century, immigration was limited by a person's ability to pay for passage to America. There were no visas and passports were not required. If you came 1st class, or 2nd class, immigration was just a formality. You filled out an immigration document stating that you weren't an anarchist, had the means of supporting yourself, were in good health, signed the document and you were admired. If you couldn't afford 1st or 2nd class passage, you went to Ellis Island where you were asked a number of questions to determine if you should be allowed in the country. Then you were giving a physical. If you passed you were admitted.

Prior to 1924, there was no border patrol, so people just wandered back forth across our southern boarder at will. After 1924, border crossings were created and Mexicans were required to have a visa or other such documents. However, that was just a method of keeping track of who entered the country. As long you crossed through a boarder crossing and weren't bringing in contraband, you were admitted. You could apply for citizenship or you could just live in the country as long as you liked. That all changed with the 1965 immigration legislation.

So what we think of as illegal immigration started less than a hundred years. For most the history of the nation, we have had open boarders in regard to immigration.

Not exactly true. The United States, and before it the Colonies, have always had laws of varying sorts regarding who could come in and live.

Yes, there have been laws that exclude certain groups of people such those that appear to be carrying communicable diseases, people unable to work, anarchist, and criminals and at times there have been laws that excludes certain nationalities such as the Chinese in part of the 19th century. However, it was not until the 20th century that most all nationalities would be restricted. Before then, our boarders were open to all nationalities with few exceptions.

The 1965 immigration laws added quotas which effectively blocked immigration from some countries, and servery restricted others. I've always found it strange that in an era in which we passed the civil rights act that forbid discrimination based national origin, that the goverment would pass a law that did exactly that.

Admittedly, one doesn't have to restrict immigration from other countries until people actually WANT to come from other countries. Nevertheless, we have quite a long and steady history of restricting people who are not in OUR best interests. At no point in time have we felt obligated to let whoever wanted to show up and make themselves at home.

I don't think our immigration system restricts people in our best interest. The system is highly automated to minimize costs. It's purpose is not to select the best but to avoid the worst. The primary criteria for immigration is nationality, having a relative in the US to sponsor you, a clean criminal record, and not being on a terrorist watch list.

I believe the ideal immigration system should be constructed as follows.

• We immigrate about a million people each year. That needs to double. That's would only be .6% of the population or 6% over 10 years.
• We need to recruit immigrants. Yes, you heard me right. If we want good people we need to tell the world. This has been done in other countries and has worked. The image of US immigration abroad is we don't want you, don't need you, and don't come. I spoke at length with friends in Germany and England about this. The consensus seem to be Americans only want people to pick fruit and clean their homes. Why should I go to all the hassle when they really don't want me?
• We spend about 7 billion on immigration. About 90% goes to enforcement and most of the rest goes to administration with very little actually going to selecting who gets to immigrate. That needs to change. We need to actually investigate immigrants, check references, conduct in depth interviews, not 20 mins with 10 mins devoted checking forms.
• Lastly, total immigration for the year should be as firm as possible but country quotas should be guidelines. In other words, we should give up this nonsense that congress has this God given ability to determine which countries will yield the best citizens. That should be determined based on individual qualifications of applicants.

It doesn't restrict them in our best interests NOW (thanks to Teddy "the Swimmer" Kennedy). We're kinda trying to change that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

Nope. It belongs to the United States, not to "everyone".

And I am immensely tired of hearing endlessly about a poem as though it not only has the force of law, but actually overrules the REAL laws.

Who cares what you think? You aren't the last word on immigration, or what the statue means or what America stands for.

We know what it stands for--Independence. This is obvious by the tablet the statue is holding marking the day we adopted the Declaration of Independence. The poor the weary stuff was added later on, but that's not why it was built:

What is the quote on the statue of liberty?

There are several phrases associated with the Statue of Liberty, but the most recognizable is “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.

In the early 1900s and after Lazarus’ death, one of her friends began a campaign to memorialize Lazarus and her New Colossus sonnet. The effort was a success, and a plaque with the poem’s text was mounted inside the pedestal of the statute.

What is the quote on the statue of liberty? · How Tall is the Statue of Liberty?

And this apparently cannot be said enough:

It's just a poem. Has no force of law whatsoever.

I don’t think any one said it did.

So you're just citing it at us endlessly to waste space?

 

[Coyote]

Nope. It belongs to the United States, not to "everyone".

And I am immensely tired of hearing endlessly about a poem as though it not only has the force of law, but actually overrules the REAL laws.

Who cares what you think? You aren't the last word on immigration, or what the statue means or what America stands for.

We know what it stands for--Independence. This is obvious by the tablet the statue is holding marking the day we adopted the Declaration of Independence. The poor the weary stuff was added later on, but that's not why it was built:

What is the quote on the statue of liberty?

There are several phrases associated with the Statue of Liberty, but the most recognizable is “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.

In the early 1900s and after Lazarus’ death, one of her friends began a campaign to memorialize Lazarus and her New Colossus sonnet. The effort was a success, and a plaque with the poem’s text was mounted inside the pedestal of the statute.

What is the quote on the statue of liberty? · How Tall is the Statue of Liberty?

And this apparently cannot be said enough:

It's just a poem. Has no force of law whatsoever.

I don’t think any one said it did.

So you're just citing it at us endlessly to waste space?

Haven’t said anything of the kind, but don’t let that stop you.

 

[Flopper]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

Nope. It belongs to the United States, not to "everyone".

And I am immensely tired of hearing endlessly about a poem as though it not only has the force of law, but actually overrules the REAL laws.

Who cares what you think? You aren't the last word on immigration, or what the statue means or what America stands for.

We know what it stands for--Independence. This is obvious by the tablet the statue is holding marking the day we adopted the Declaration of Independence. The poor the weary stuff was added later on, but that's not why it was built:

What is the quote on the statue of liberty?

There are several phrases associated with the Statue of Liberty, but the most recognizable is “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.

In the early 1900s and after Lazarus’ death, one of her friends began a campaign to memorialize Lazarus and her New Colossus sonnet. The effort was a success, and a plaque with the poem’s text was mounted inside the pedestal of the statute.

What is the quote on the statue of liberty? · How Tall is the Statue of Liberty?

And this apparently cannot be said enough:

It's just a poem. Has no force of law whatsoever.

True, no force of law at all. Yet those words have had tremendous influence on Americans and people around the world. Every time I heard people say don't pay any attention to what he says, his words mean nothing, I think of these words.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I think the xenophobia and racism is responsible for the stereotypes that you keep falling back on. Legal immigrants in the US are less likely to be arrested for drugs or alcohol, and less likely to be arrested for most criminal acts than native born Americans.

Illegal Immigrants Accounted for Nearly 37 Percent of Federal Sentences in FY 2014 | Breitbart
and in case you don't like the source:

Illegal immigrants responsible for almost three-fourths of federal drug possession sentences in 2014

Report: Illegals Committed 600,000 Crimes in Texas in 6 Yrs

Our crime rate with illegals should be 0%. That's the problem. I don't care how many less crimes they commit than Americans because THIS IS OUR COUNTRY, and we deal with our own. But because we have murders, rapes, fraud, theft doesn't mean we should invite more of it to our country.

If legal immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans, it means employers are getting better employees. If not, they wouldn't be hiring them. This is exactly what we want and need, people that will make the nation more productive.

No, they hire them because they can pay them crap, that's why they are hired. Businesses who don't want to pay American wages get away with dragging people into this country to work for pennies on the dollar. Yes, that lowers wages for native born Americans.

For too long, we have been attracting the greatest young minds in the world to our universities then sending them back home in 60 days rather than joining American companies and kicking the shit out of foreign competition.

Then the solution is to let them go to school somewhere else.

A kid from Indian rented a unit in our condo last month. He just graduated from Caltech with a masters in computer science. He got his BS from Stanford in Math and graduated in the top 10% of his Class. Microsoft wanted to hire him but because H2b Visas are limited, the company can't get his visa before his 60 days runs out which means he would have to stay in the country illegally to wait for the Visa. So he and his wife will go back to Indian and accept an offer from a major tech firm that competes with Microsoft, a victory for the alt right, and a loss for America.

We allow over a million foreigners into this country a year. Let's create standards in which one can apply for citizenship in this country. We'll start with how valuable you are for us, and that doesn't include lettuce pickers.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Statue of Liberty is not for illegals
It’s on an island for people traveling across thousands of miles of ocean to legally enter the USA. We welcome you
It’s not on the USA/Mexico border welcoming illegals who travel a few feet of dirt to commit their crime

The Statue of Liberty is for everyone.

Nope. It belongs to the United States, not to "everyone".

And I am immensely tired of hearing endlessly about a poem as though it not only has the force of law, but actually overrules the REAL laws.

Who cares what you think? You aren't the last word on immigration, or what the statue means or what America stands for.

We know what it stands for--Independence. This is obvious by the tablet the statue is holding marking the day we adopted the Declaration of Independence. The poor the weary stuff was added later on, but that's not why it was built:

What is the quote on the statue of liberty?

There are several phrases associated with the Statue of Liberty, but the most recognizable is “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.

In the early 1900s and after Lazarus’ death, one of her friends began a campaign to memorialize Lazarus and her New Colossus sonnet. The effort was a success, and a plaque with the poem’s text was mounted inside the pedestal of the statute.

What is the quote on the statue of liberty? · How Tall is the Statue of Liberty?

And this apparently cannot be said enough:

It's just a poem. Has no force of law whatsoever.

Actually the point was the statue was not erected to welcome foreigners. It was put there so that when foreigners come, they are reminded of the value of liberty--not put there as a Welcome Mat.

The statue was a gift from France with the sole intention of celebrating freedom. The liberals like to use the poem to say that the statue was put here to welcome any and all foreigners into the country. It's just a wives tale is all it is.