What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Flopper]

Which is not going to happen until we fix our laws, enforce them fairly and consistently.

If you ask Americans if they think our immigration laws should be enforced, the answer is going to be yes. However, if you ask them if they oppose or favor the deportation all illegal immigrants, the majority (66% in a recent Gallup Poll) are in opposition. If you ask them whether illegal immigrants help or hurt the nation, they are about equally divided.

Illegally immigration is firmly rooted in America culture. Over the last 75 years we have had periods off and on enforcement and that will not change without changes in our laws. The president, regulators, immigration judges, and immigration officers have a lot of discretion in enforcing the law. As long as that exists, the future is going to look a lot like the past.

The one great thing about Trump is he doesn't preside according to screwed polls. He rules on what he feels and believes in.

Presidents don't rule, not even Trump.

geez, grow up, rule = govern in modern parlance.

Actually, a president does not rule, he serves. Of course we will never hear that from Trump as he has never served anyone other than himself, not even his country.

you are FOS, Trump didn't need to put himself through all this shit. He had everything a man could want, but he decided to try to help the country.

Now, if we are talking narcissists, lets discuss Obama and Bubba Clinton, and crooked Hillary.

Nonsense. Trump ran for president for himself. He was looking for a challenge, a chance to be the center of attention. In 2015 he explained exactly why he was running for president.

Donald Trump had two reasons for why he decided to run for president which he state clearly in 2015.

“So it was really important that I do it, for myself … I mean I really considered it strongly last time. Before that I thought about it. But I never even had any staff. My secretary was my staff,” Trump said in an interview with Time published Thursday. “But the time I looked at it was [last] time. But I was very busy, I was doing tremendous developments which are now completed and very successful. Because we’re all over the world. And I had a signed contract with ‘The Apprentice.’ I would have had to break it.”

“The other reason,” Trump said, is that he “wanted to do this for myself. I didn’t want to look back in ten years and say I could have done that or I could have done that,” Trump said. “My family would look at me and say, ‘Ugh, stop.’ I had to do it for myself.”

Painting Trump as self sacrificing for the good of the country is just plain silly. He is probably one of the most self-centered men that has ever lived. Everything he does is for himself.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The one great thing about Trump is he doesn't preside according to screwed polls. He rules on what he feels and believes in.

Presidents don't rule, not even Trump.

geez, grow up, rule = govern in modern parlance.

Actually, a president does not rule, he serves. Of course we will never hear that from Trump as he has never served anyone other than himself, not even his country.

you are FOS, Trump didn't need to put himself through all this shit. He had everything a man could want, but he decided to try to help the country.

Now, if we are talking narcissists, lets discuss Obama and Bubba Clinton, and crooked Hillary.

Nonsense. Trump ran for president for himself. He was looking for a challenge, a chance to be the center of attention. In 2015 he explained exactly why he was running for president.

Donald Trump had two reasons for why he decided to run for president which he state clearly in 2015.

“So it was really important that I do it, for myself … I mean I really considered it strongly last time. Before that I thought about it. But I never even had any staff. My secretary was my staff,” Trump said in an interview with Time published Thursday. “But the time I looked at it was [last] time. But I was very busy, I was doing tremendous developments which are now completed and very successful. Because we’re all over the world. And I had a signed contract with ‘The Apprentice.’ I would have had to break it.”

“The other reason,” Trump said, is that he “wanted to do this for myself. I didn’t want to look back in ten years and say I could have done that or I could have done that,” Trump said. “My family would look at me and say, ‘Ugh, stop.’ I had to do it for myself.”

Painting Trump as self sacrificing for the good of the country is just plain silly. He is probably one of the most self-centered men that has ever lived. Everything he does is for himself.

And by himself, you don't think he meant it would make him feel better if he could do positive things for the country?

It's like my father always said about charity. He said if he ever hit the lottery, nothing would make him feel better than to give the money to family and friends to make their life better. The most rewarding feeling one could have is doing just that.

Or is my 87 year old father only thinking about himself too?

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, um, well dude, if they caught me traveling moving to a new home with my life possessions, they'd catch me with a hell of a lot more!

I'm sure they would, but that wasn't the issue here. The Mexicans really thought he was gun smuggling. Given 250,000 guns cross into Mexico every year, it's a real problem for them.

But this is getting off topic.

So you think it's perfectly fine to throw kids into concentration camps for trying to cross the border, but the Mexican Government locks up some guy who was smuggling weapons into their country, the government campaigns to get him out, and you complain they didn't try hard enough.

 

[KissMy]

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," ...The Trump administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.

Breaking up families is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE!!!

 

[Unkotare]

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," ...The Trump administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.

Breaking up families is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE!!!

So, parents putting their children in such circumstances is UNACCEPTABLE, right?

 

[Redfish]

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," ...The Trump administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.

Breaking up families is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE!!!

was it unacceptable when Clinton, bush, and Obama were doing it? This didn't start with Trump. Clinton signed it into law and he, bush, and Obama all followed it.

your ignorance is making you stupid.

 

[Redfish]

The one great thing about Trump is he doesn't preside according to screwed polls. He rules on what he feels and believes in.

Presidents don't rule, not even Trump.

geez, grow up, rule = govern in modern parlance.

Actually, a president does not rule, he serves. Of course we will never hear that from Trump as he has never served anyone other than himself, not even his country.

you are FOS, Trump didn't need to put himself through all this shit. He had everything a man could want, but he decided to try to help the country.

Now, if we are talking narcissists, lets discuss Obama and Bubba Clinton, and crooked Hillary.

Nonsense. Trump ran for president for himself. He was looking for a challenge, a chance to be the center of attention. In 2015 he explained exactly why he was running for president.

Donald Trump had two reasons for why he decided to run for president which he state clearly in 2015.

“So it was really important that I do it, for myself … I mean I really considered it strongly last time. Before that I thought about it. But I never even had any staff. My secretary was my staff,” Trump said in an interview with Time published Thursday. “But the time I looked at it was [last] time. But I was very busy, I was doing tremendous developments which are now completed and very successful. Because we’re all over the world. And I had a signed contract with ‘The Apprentice.’ I would have had to break it.”

“The other reason,” Trump said, is that he “wanted to do this for myself. I didn’t want to look back in ten years and say I could have done that or I could have done that,” Trump said. “My family would look at me and say, ‘Ugh, stop.’ I had to do it for myself.”

Painting Trump as self sacrificing for the good of the country is just plain silly. He is probably one of the most self-centered men that has ever lived. Everything he does is for himself.

every politician in history has been a narcissist. the difference is that Trump is getting things done. Its fine if you don't like his personality, but you are stupid if you ignore the good he has done for our country.

 

[Claudette]

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," ...The Trump administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.

Breaking up families is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE!!!

was it unacceptable when Clinton, bush, and Obama were doing it? This didn't start with Trump. Clinton signed it into law and he, bush, and Obama all followed it.

your ignorance is making you stupid.

Oh they don't want to hear that.

Hell this has been going on for a long time. Anyone remember any threads on this when Clinton and Barry were POTUS??

I sure don't and this has been going on for decades.

Its the law and its what has been done and is being done.

If these illegals weren't here then NONE of this law would be needed.

 

[Coyote]

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," ...The Trump administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.

Breaking up families is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE!!!

was it unacceptable when Clinton, bush, and Obama were doing it? This didn't start with Trump. Clinton signed it into law and he, bush, and Obama all followed it.

your ignorance is making you stupid.

Speaking of ignorance...umh...yes. It did start with Trump. The Trump administration created a NEW POLICY of 100% seperation and prosecution. They used existing laws to support the NEW POLICY.

Please show us where Clinton, Bush or Obama seperated all families, including asylum seekers, at the border. Otherwise - if you are going to support this policy, at least OWN it.

 

[Coyote]

Presidents don't rule, not even Trump.

geez, grow up, rule = govern in modern parlance.

Actually, a president does not rule, he serves. Of course we will never hear that from Trump as he has never served anyone other than himself, not even his country.

you are FOS, Trump didn't need to put himself through all this shit. He had everything a man could want, but he decided to try to help the country.

Now, if we are talking narcissists, lets discuss Obama and Bubba Clinton, and crooked Hillary.

Nonsense. Trump ran for president for himself. He was looking for a challenge, a chance to be the center of attention. In 2015 he explained exactly why he was running for president.

Donald Trump had two reasons for why he decided to run for president which he state clearly in 2015.

“So it was really important that I do it, for myself … I mean I really considered it strongly last time. Before that I thought about it. But I never even had any staff. My secretary was my staff,” Trump said in an interview with Time published Thursday. “But the time I looked at it was [last] time. But I was very busy, I was doing tremendous developments which are now completed and very successful. Because we’re all over the world. And I had a signed contract with ‘The Apprentice.’ I would have had to break it.”

“The other reason,” Trump said, is that he “wanted to do this for myself. I didn’t want to look back in ten years and say I could have done that or I could have done that,” Trump said. “My family would look at me and say, ‘Ugh, stop.’ I had to do it for myself.”

Painting Trump as self sacrificing for the good of the country is just plain silly. He is probably one of the most self-centered men that has ever lived. Everything he does is for himself.

And by himself, you don't think he meant it would make him feel better if he could do positive things for the country?

It's like my father always said about charity. He said if he ever hit the lottery, nothing would make him feel better than to give the money to family and friends to make their life better. The most rewarding feeling one could have is doing just that.

Or is my 87 year old father only thinking about himself too?

No. He has no interest in true public service nor any concept of what it means. The presidency serves his business interests.

 

[Coyote]

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," ...The Trump administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.

Breaking up families is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE!!!

was it unacceptable when Clinton, bush, and Obama were doing it? This didn't start with Trump. Clinton signed it into law and he, bush, and Obama all followed it.

your ignorance is making you stupid.

Oh they don't want to hear that.

Hell this has been going on for a long time. Anyone remember any threads on this when Clinton and Barry were POTUS??

I sure don't and this has been going on for decades.

Its the law and its what has been done and is being done.

If these illegals weren't here then NONE of this law would be needed.

Got a link to show us this 100% policy was going prior to Trump?

 

[Claudette]

Got a link to show it wasn't??

 

[Coyote]

Got a link to show it wasn't??

I asked you first. I can find no reference of a 100% seperation policy prior to Trump. Perhaps you can find it.

 

[Flopper]

Presidents don't rule, not even Trump.

geez, grow up, rule = govern in modern parlance.

Actually, a president does not rule, he serves. Of course we will never hear that from Trump as he has never served anyone other than himself, not even his country.

you are FOS, Trump didn't need to put himself through all this shit. He had everything a man could want, but he decided to try to help the country.

Now, if we are talking narcissists, lets discuss Obama and Bubba Clinton, and crooked Hillary.

Nonsense. Trump ran for president for himself. He was looking for a challenge, a chance to be the center of attention. In 2015 he explained exactly why he was running for president.

Donald Trump had two reasons for why he decided to run for president which he state clearly in 2015.

“So it was really important that I do it, for myself … I mean I really considered it strongly last time. Before that I thought about it. But I never even had any staff. My secretary was my staff,” Trump said in an interview with Time published Thursday. “But the time I looked at it was [last] time. But I was very busy, I was doing tremendous developments which are now completed and very successful. Because we’re all over the world. And I had a signed contract with ‘The Apprentice.’ I would have had to break it.”

“The other reason,” Trump said, is that he “wanted to do this for myself. I didn’t want to look back in ten years and say I could have done that or I could have done that,” Trump said. “My family would look at me and say, ‘Ugh, stop.’ I had to do it for myself.”

Painting Trump as self sacrificing for the good of the country is just plain silly. He is probably one of the most self-centered men that has ever lived. Everything he does is for himself.

And by himself, you don't think he meant it would make him feel better if he could do positive things for the country?

It's like my father always said about charity. He said if he ever hit the lottery, nothing would make him feel better than to give the money to family and friends to make their life better. The most rewarding feeling one could have is doing just that.

Or is my 87 year old father only thinking about himself too?

Trump said over and over, "I wanted to do this for myself", not for the nation. If you look at just about everything Trump has said and done up to the beginning of his campaign, it has been for himself. One can say this about all presidents to some extent but for Trump it is his entire motivation in life as it has been his entire life. He has never been motivated to act in the greater good of the nation or anything else.

What Trump followers don't seem to realize about his leadership is that it is totally and completely transaction orientated. For example, Trump proclaimed, "NATO is obsolete." some months ago. Then only a few weeks later in the East Room, Trump stood next to the NATO Secretary-General and announced NATO is "no longer obsolete." Had NATO changed so much in just a few weeks? Not really. What changed is that Trump wanted to display allies who support his missile strike against Syria. NATO announced support for the missile strike and Trump made NATO no longer obsolete, a simple transaction.

Months late Trump implied that the US may back out of NATO prior to meeting with NATO because the allies are not paying their share. At the meeting, it was suggested that European nations would be able to increase their contributions at a future date. Trump takes this as a concession to his demand and declares a deal has been struck and US will remain committed to NATO.

For Trump every interaction is a transaction, an opportunity to win at someone else's cost, so every achievement is a zero sum game of win/lose. This is the hallmark of an inveterate salesman and obviously a tactic that worked brilliantly in the election race, which is possibly the ultimate zero sum game.

So what's wrong with this as president. Basically just this. Presidential leadership is not a zero sum game. It must be played as a win-win game. Everybody must feel like they are winning something or at least losing very little in the short term for longer term greater gain for any leader to hope to gain support. Further, deals must be made within the context of policy, not very important in closing sales deals but of critical importance in the role of political leadership.

A transactional leader must be willing to shift policy to win the deal which in the long run creates distrust and confusion. Not a leader in congress nor any of our allies can honesty say they trust the president because he has proven that a commitment today becomes a bargaining chip tomorrow. In the long run, this will be a loss for the president and the nation.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trump said over and over, "I wanted to do this for myself", not for the nation.

And he said not for the nation? Have a link to that?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

geez, grow up, rule = govern in modern parlance.

Actually, a president does not rule, he serves. Of course we will never hear that from Trump as he has never served anyone other than himself, not even his country.

you are FOS, Trump didn't need to put himself through all this shit. He had everything a man could want, but he decided to try to help the country.

Now, if we are talking narcissists, lets discuss Obama and Bubba Clinton, and crooked Hillary.

Nonsense. Trump ran for president for himself. He was looking for a challenge, a chance to be the center of attention. In 2015 he explained exactly why he was running for president.

Donald Trump had two reasons for why he decided to run for president which he state clearly in 2015.

“So it was really important that I do it, for myself … I mean I really considered it strongly last time. Before that I thought about it. But I never even had any staff. My secretary was my staff,” Trump said in an interview with Time published Thursday. “But the time I looked at it was [last] time. But I was very busy, I was doing tremendous developments which are now completed and very successful. Because we’re all over the world. And I had a signed contract with ‘The Apprentice.’ I would have had to break it.”

“The other reason,” Trump said, is that he “wanted to do this for myself. I didn’t want to look back in ten years and say I could have done that or I could have done that,” Trump said. “My family would look at me and say, ‘Ugh, stop.’ I had to do it for myself.”

Painting Trump as self sacrificing for the good of the country is just plain silly. He is probably one of the most self-centered men that has ever lived. Everything he does is for himself.

And by himself, you don't think he meant it would make him feel better if he could do positive things for the country?

It's like my father always said about charity. He said if he ever hit the lottery, nothing would make him feel better than to give the money to family and friends to make their life better. The most rewarding feeling one could have is doing just that.

Or is my 87 year old father only thinking about himself too?

No. He has no interest in true public service nor any concept of what it means. The presidency serves his business interests.

Sure it does. The guy took a job that nocked him down couple of notches for business purposes.

It's true what the right says about you people: If Trump found a cure for cancer, you on the left would be complaining that he just put more stress on Social Security and Medicare.

 

[Coyote]

Actually, a president does not rule, he serves. Of course we will never hear that from Trump as he has never served anyone other than himself, not even his country.

you are FOS, Trump didn't need to put himself through all this shit. He had everything a man could want, but he decided to try to help the country.

Now, if we are talking narcissists, lets discuss Obama and Bubba Clinton, and crooked Hillary.

Nonsense. Trump ran for president for himself. He was looking for a challenge, a chance to be the center of attention. In 2015 he explained exactly why he was running for president.

Donald Trump had two reasons for why he decided to run for president which he state clearly in 2015.

“So it was really important that I do it, for myself … I mean I really considered it strongly last time. Before that I thought about it. But I never even had any staff. My secretary was my staff,” Trump said in an interview with Time published Thursday. “But the time I looked at it was [last] time. But I was very busy, I was doing tremendous developments which are now completed and very successful. Because we’re all over the world. And I had a signed contract with ‘The Apprentice.’ I would have had to break it.”

“The other reason,” Trump said, is that he “wanted to do this for myself. I didn’t want to look back in ten years and say I could have done that or I could have done that,” Trump said. “My family would look at me and say, ‘Ugh, stop.’ I had to do it for myself.”

Painting Trump as self sacrificing for the good of the country is just plain silly. He is probably one of the most self-centered men that has ever lived. Everything he does is for himself.

And by himself, you don't think he meant it would make him feel better if he could do positive things for the country?

It's like my father always said about charity. He said if he ever hit the lottery, nothing would make him feel better than to give the money to family and friends to make their life better. The most rewarding feeling one could have is doing just that.

Or is my 87 year old father only thinking about himself too?

No. He has no interest in true public service nor any concept of what it means. The presidency serves his business interests.

Sure it does. The guy took a job that nocked him down couple of notches for business purposes.

It's true what the right says about you people: If Trump found a cure for cancer, you on the left would be complaining that he just put more stress on Social Security and Medicare.

Uh no. He's still has all his business'. He more than doubled his rates for his Washington hotel and Miralago since becoming president.

He has no concept of civil service - he's out for Trump.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," ...The Trump administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.

Breaking up families is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE!!!

was it unacceptable when Clinton, bush, and Obama were doing it? This didn't start with Trump. Clinton signed it into law and he, bush, and Obama all followed it.

your ignorance is making you stupid.

Speaking of ignorance...umh...yes. It did start with Trump. The Trump administration created a NEW POLICY of 100% seperation and prosecution. They used existing laws to support the NEW POLICY.

Please show us where Clinton, Bush or Obama seperated all families, including asylum seekers, at the border. Otherwise - if you are going to support this policy, at least OWN it.

No, Trump never had a policy of 100% separation. For those who had a legitimate claim to apply for asylum, they were given the paperwork and process in which to apply and kept their children.

The Trump policy is anybody caught sneaking in is not eligible for asylum, nor are people that are coming here with a phony excuse for it.

 

[Coyote]

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," ...The Trump administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.

Breaking up families is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE!!!

was it unacceptable when Clinton, bush, and Obama were doing it? This didn't start with Trump. Clinton signed it into law and he, bush, and Obama all followed it.

your ignorance is making you stupid.

Speaking of ignorance...umh...yes. It did start with Trump. The Trump administration created a NEW POLICY of 100% seperation and prosecution. They used existing laws to support the NEW POLICY.

Please show us where Clinton, Bush or Obama seperated all families, including asylum seekers, at the border. Otherwise - if you are going to support this policy, at least OWN it.

No, Trump never had a policy of 100% separation. For those who had a legitimate claim to apply for asylum, they were given the paperwork and process in which to apply and kept their children.

The Trump policy is anybody caught sneaking in is not eligible for asylum, nor are people that are coming here with a phony excuse for it.

Yes.

He did.

Those claiming asylum have indeed been seperated. Their legitimacy or eligibility is not determined UNTIL they go through a series of steps including an interview, which is not done spur of the moment. It's simple to google for the info - asylum seekers have been seperated. Google Trumps 100% policy. It's no secret. Quit pretending other presidents did the same thing. They didn't.

 

[Coyote]

Actually, a president does not rule, he serves. Of course we will never hear that from Trump as he has never served anyone other than himself, not even his country.

you are FOS, Trump didn't need to put himself through all this shit. He had everything a man could want, but he decided to try to help the country.

Now, if we are talking narcissists, lets discuss Obama and Bubba Clinton, and crooked Hillary.

Nonsense. Trump ran for president for himself. He was looking for a challenge, a chance to be the center of attention. In 2015 he explained exactly why he was running for president.

Donald Trump had two reasons for why he decided to run for president which he state clearly in 2015.

“So it was really important that I do it, for myself … I mean I really considered it strongly last time. Before that I thought about it. But I never even had any staff. My secretary was my staff,” Trump said in an interview with Time published Thursday. “But the time I looked at it was [last] time. But I was very busy, I was doing tremendous developments which are now completed and very successful. Because we’re all over the world. And I had a signed contract with ‘The Apprentice.’ I would have had to break it.”

“The other reason,” Trump said, is that he “wanted to do this for myself. I didn’t want to look back in ten years and say I could have done that or I could have done that,” Trump said. “My family would look at me and say, ‘Ugh, stop.’ I had to do it for myself.”

Painting Trump as self sacrificing for the good of the country is just plain silly. He is probably one of the most self-centered men that has ever lived. Everything he does is for himself.

And by himself, you don't think he meant it would make him feel better if he could do positive things for the country?

It's like my father always said about charity. He said if he ever hit the lottery, nothing would make him feel better than to give the money to family and friends to make their life better. The most rewarding feeling one could have is doing just that.

Or is my 87 year old father only thinking about himself too?

No. He has no interest in true public service nor any concept of what it means. The presidency serves his business interests.

Sure it does. The guy took a job that nocked him down couple of notches for business purposes.

It's true what the right says about you people: If Trump found a cure for cancer, you on the left would be complaining that he just put more stress on Social Security and Medicare.

And if Trump decided to incarcerate children indefinately, you'd support it and blame the parents.