What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[protectionist]

If there was no probability of being caught there would be no one caught and that is not true. Yes, it's very rare but it does happen.

However, there is no evidence of widespread non-citizen voting in national elections. Multiple nationwide studies have uncovered only a handful of incidents of non-citizens voting. Based on state prosecution records, votes by non-citizens account for between 0.0003 percent and 0.001 percent of all votes cast. Election Officials agree that there is no serious problem of non-citizen voting in our elections. The National Association of Secretaries of State, whose Republican-majority membership includes the chief elections officers of 40 states, said they “are not aware of any evidence that supports the voter fraud claims made by President Trump.”

Massive voting by non-citizens in national elections exists only in the minds of the Alt-Right and conspiracy theorist such as Trump.

Typical liberal mindset.

EARTH TO FLOPPER: "Studies" are not how you assess illegal voting. You don't get it from "associations" either. As long as you let CNN, PBS, etc box into that, you'll never know what's going on. Listening to illegals talk (in Spanish of course) is how you do it. They openly brag about it. (especially after couple of beers) You don't know ?

Another way is just by seeing them at the voting booths, voting. You wanna show me a "study" that proves that fish can swim ? You got one ? Guess how you determine that. You look in the water and SEE THEM.

 

[protectionist]

Solving our illegal problem means we won't have illegals.

As it should be.

 

[protectionist]

want to pay "wall building Tax Rates, for it"?

Mexico will reimburse whatever the cost shows up to be. They can't avoid that.

 

[danielpalos]

want to pay "wall building Tax Rates, for it"?

Mexico will reimburse whatever the cost shows up to be. They can't avoid that.

nothing but excuses, right wingers.

 

[protectionist]

Have you considered that where there is little indication of voter fraud, there is little need for extensive verification. A majority of states require identification at the polls. Also, states use other methods of validating the vote such as signing an affidavit, having a poll worker vouch for voter, having election officials verify a voter's identity after the vote is cast, or having the voter return an inquiry mailed to their reported address.

For most people, voting is a pain in the ass, reading through all the explanations of ballot proposals, qualifications of candidates, re-registering to vote every time you move, taking off work to vote, standing in lines at polls, learning voting procedures, and enduring robocalls day an night. Adding more verification and voter id requirements just makes it more difficult and more costly. If it's really needed fine but we need more evidence that there is a real problem, not fears in the minds the alt right.

1. There is indication of voter fraud by illegal aliens EVERYWHERE, in all 50 states (some have more than others). All depends on one's definition of the word "indication".

2. There is no "verification" of voting eligibility (ie, CITIZENSHIP) anywhere in America.

3. "Evidence" of illegal voting is everywhere, and easy to see, as long as one does not blind himself to the problem.

 

[protectionist]

nothing but excuses, right wingers.

How is Mexico's reimbursment an "excuse" ?

Excuses are things that left wingers give, for NOT building the wall.

 

[protectionist]

market friendly border policy should generate revenue and defray social costs.

One thousand a year for an entry visa to our legal markets, can be reasonable.

That One thousand a year will be erased in one week by remittance lo$$,

($138 Billion/year) >> Remittance Flows Worldwide in 2016

 

[danielpalos]

nothing but excuses, right wingers.

How is Mexico's reimbursment an "excuse" ?

Excuses are things that left wingers give, for NOT building the wall.

a wall is worthless.

we should be generating one thousand per person.

 

[danielpalos]

market friendly border policy should generate revenue and defray social costs.

One thousand a year for an entry visa to our legal markets, can be reasonable.

That One thousand a year will be erased in one week by remittance lo$$,

($138 Billion/year) >> Remittance Flows Worldwide in 2016

They will all be legal. And, they have Home Depot in Mexico now; should we insist they buy American ladders?

 

[protectionist]

a wall is worthless.

we should be generating one thousand per person.

Refuted in previous post. (5187)

 

[protectionist]

They will all be legal. And, they have Home Depot in Mexico now; should we insist they buy American ladders?

"legal" doesn't stop remittances. Much of the $138 Billion/year of sales US businesses are losing, comes from legal aliens.

 

[danielpalos]

a wall is worthless.

we should be generating one thousand per person.

Refuted in previous post. (5187)

remittances aren't lost income with our third largest trading partner. they have Home Depot in Mexico now; we should insist, they buy, American ladders.

 

[danielpalos]

They will all be legal. And, they have Home Depot in Mexico now; should we insist they buy American ladders?

"legal" doesn't stop remittances. Much of the $138 Billion/year of sales US businesses are losing, comes from legal aliens.

liquidity; who needs it, right, right wingers.

 

[Flopper]

Multiple nationwide studies have uncovered only a handful of incidents of non-citizens voting. Based on state prosecution records, votes by non-citizens account for between 0.0003 percent and 0.001 percent of all votes cast. Election Officials agree that there is no serious problem of non-citizen voting in our elections.

Hmm, you know, when we talk about Voter-ID and a Democrat brings up an anomaly like a voter with no ID because they came from a country that didn't provide birth certificates, the left told us that every single vote is precious; every single vote should count. But for some reason, when it comes to voter fraud "Oh don't worry, it's not enough to change anything."

The only real way of knowing who or how many vote fraudulently is when they get caught.

The reality today is votes are precious, not a vote. In the first presidential election there 43,000 votes. In 2016, there were 130 million votes. Just recently, LA county said 118,000 voters were accidentally left all voter rosters, about 3 times the total number of votes in our first presidential election. It is not unusually that thousands of ballots out of millions in a state will be misplaced or tabulated incorrectly. Sometimes they are found and sometimes not. As long as the ballots that are disqualified or mis-tabulated will not make a difference in the outcome, they are largely ignored.

In every presidential election there are thousands of votes that are not counted and many times that number that are not allowed to vote because of various purging rules of voting rosters.

So we are supposed be alarmed over fraudulently voting when it's discovered that 10 people voted fraudulently over a 6 year period in national elections, one women is sent to jail, 733 people could have voted twice because they were on the rolls for more one state and at the same time tens of thousands of valid voters are purged from the rolls and over hundred thousand legal register voters are simple lost.

The whole controversy about more validation of the votes and voter ids is based on the unproven claim that large number of non-citizens are voting in national elections. Also the presumption that adding voter ids will reduce the number of democratic votes is unproven. In other words, it's much ado about nothing.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Multiple nationwide studies have uncovered only a handful of incidents of non-citizens voting. Based on state prosecution records, votes by non-citizens account for between 0.0003 percent and 0.001 percent of all votes cast. Election Officials agree that there is no serious problem of non-citizen voting in our elections.

Hmm, you know, when we talk about Voter-ID and a Democrat brings up an anomaly like a voter with no ID because they came from a country that didn't provide birth certificates, the left told us that every single vote is precious; every single vote should count. But for some reason, when it comes to voter fraud "Oh don't worry, it's not enough to change anything."

The only real way of knowing who or how many vote fraudulently is when they get caught.

The reality today is votes are precious, not a vote. In the first presidential election there 43,000 votes. In 2016, there were 130 million votes. Just recently, LA county said 118,000 voters were accidentally left all voter rosters, about 3 times the total number of votes in our first presidential election. It is not unusually that thousands of ballots out of millions in a state will be misplaced or tabulated incorrectly. Sometimes they are found and sometimes not. As long as the ballots that are disqualified or mis-tabulated will not make a difference in the outcome, they are largely ignored.

In every presidential election there are thousands of votes that are not counted and many times that number that are not allowed to vote because of various purging rules of voting rosters.

So we are supposed be alarmed over fraudulently voting when it's discovered that 10 people voted fraudulently over a 6 year period in national elections, one women is sent to jail, 733 people could have voted twice because they were on the rolls for more one state and at the same time tens of thousands of valid voters are purged from the rolls and over hundred thousand legal register voters are simple lost.

The whole controversy about more validation of the votes and voter ids is based on the unproven claim that large number of non-citizens are voting in national elections. Also the presumption that adding voter ids will reduce the number of democratic votes is unproven. In other words, it's much ado about nothing.

According to Democrats Voter-ID is racist and does affect Democrat voters only.

There are F-ups in every election. To count the amount of votes cast is a daunting task. It takes electronics to assist to get the results as quickly as we get them. But because of that, mistakes are made. Those mistakes only come up when a Democrat loses.

The only time ballots that are misplaced are ignored is when it wouldn't make a difference in the outcome. If a congressional candidate wins by 15,000 votes, and 15,000 votes are found afterwards, it won't make a difference because it's likely not every one of those votes likely didn't go to that candidate. However, if they found 15,000 votes and a candidate lost by let's say 2,000, you can bet anything they will be counted and counted under a microscope.

 

[Flopper]

If there was no probability of being caught there would be no one caught and that is not true. Yes, it's very rare but it does happen.

However, there is no evidence of widespread non-citizen voting in national elections. Multiple nationwide studies have uncovered only a handful of incidents of non-citizens voting. Based on state prosecution records, votes by non-citizens account for between 0.0003 percent and 0.001 percent of all votes cast. Election Officials agree that there is no serious problem of non-citizen voting in our elections. The National Association of Secretaries of State, whose Republican-majority membership includes the chief elections officers of 40 states, said they “are not aware of any evidence that supports the voter fraud claims made by President Trump.”

Massive voting by non-citizens in national elections exists only in the minds of the Alt-Right and conspiracy theorist such as Trump.

Typical liberal mindset.

EARTH TO FLOPPER: "Studies" are not how you assess illegal voting. You don't get it from "associations" either. As long as you let CNN, PBS, etc box into that, you'll never know what's going on. Listening to illegals talk (in Spanish of course) is how you do it. They openly brag about it. (especially after couple of beers) You don't know ?

Another way is just by seeing them at the voting booths, voting. You wanna show me a "study" that proves that fish can swim ? You got one ? Guess how you determine that. You look in the water and SEE THEM.

According to you we have an (unknown) number of people speaking Spanish (presumed to be illegal) bragging about illegal voting after they have been drinking. So this is how conservatives collect data to formulate policy.

 

[Flopper]

Multiple nationwide studies have uncovered only a handful of incidents of non-citizens voting. Based on state prosecution records, votes by non-citizens account for between 0.0003 percent and 0.001 percent of all votes cast. Election Officials agree that there is no serious problem of non-citizen voting in our elections.

Hmm, you know, when we talk about Voter-ID and a Democrat brings up an anomaly like a voter with no ID because they came from a country that didn't provide birth certificates, the left told us that every single vote is precious; every single vote should count. But for some reason, when it comes to voter fraud "Oh don't worry, it's not enough to change anything."

The only real way of knowing who or how many vote fraudulently is when they get caught.

The reality today is votes are precious, not a vote. In the first presidential election there 43,000 votes. In 2016, there were 130 million votes. Just recently, LA county said 118,000 voters were accidentally left all voter rosters, about 3 times the total number of votes in our first presidential election. It is not unusually that thousands of ballots out of millions in a state will be misplaced or tabulated incorrectly. Sometimes they are found and sometimes not. As long as the ballots that are disqualified or mis-tabulated will not make a difference in the outcome, they are largely ignored.

In every presidential election there are thousands of votes that are not counted and many times that number that are not allowed to vote because of various purging rules of voting rosters.

So we are supposed be alarmed over fraudulently voting when it's discovered that 10 people voted fraudulently over a 6 year period in national elections, one women is sent to jail, 733 people could have voted twice because they were on the rolls for more one state and at the same time tens of thousands of valid voters are purged from the rolls and over hundred thousand legal register voters are simple lost.

The whole controversy about more validation of the votes and voter ids is based on the unproven claim that large number of non-citizens are voting in national elections. Also the presumption that adding voter ids will reduce the number of democratic votes is unproven. In other words, it's much ado about nothing.

According to Democrats Voter-ID is racist and does affect Democrat voters only.

There are F-ups in every election. To count the amount of votes cast is a daunting task. It takes electronics to assist to get the results as quickly as we get them. But because of that, mistakes are made. Those mistakes only come up when a Democrat loses.

The only time ballots that are misplaced are ignored is when it wouldn't make a difference in the outcome. If a congressional candidate wins by 15,000 votes, and 15,000 votes are found afterwards, it won't make a difference because it's likely not every one of those votes likely didn't go to that candidate. However, if they found 15,000 votes and a candidate lost by let's say 2,000, you can bet anything they will be counted and counted under a microscope.

Neither democrats nor republicans know how voter id's will effect outcomes. One source is saying voter ids were responsible for 200,000 less turnout in 2016. However, any reduction in turnout seems to be about the same for both parties.

Are voter id's racist? Maybe. The idea is based on the believe that blacks will not go to the trouble of voting if they have to remember to bring their id to the polls. I guess people think they are too stupid or lazy. That idea seems pretty racist to me. IMHO, voter ids do reduce turnout but they are just about as likely to effect republican votes as democrat vote. However, the issues at stake and the candidates are a far bigger determinate than having to remember to carry your id to the poll.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Holy Shit!!!!
I cant believe this thread is still on going!!!!
I'm gonna say for my final comment that all the beaner/wetback lives that need to be ended to stop the invasion are necessary.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Multiple nationwide studies have uncovered only a handful of incidents of non-citizens voting. Based on state prosecution records, votes by non-citizens account for between 0.0003 percent and 0.001 percent of all votes cast. Election Officials agree that there is no serious problem of non-citizen voting in our elections.

Hmm, you know, when we talk about Voter-ID and a Democrat brings up an anomaly like a voter with no ID because they came from a country that didn't provide birth certificates, the left told us that every single vote is precious; every single vote should count. But for some reason, when it comes to voter fraud "Oh don't worry, it's not enough to change anything."

The only real way of knowing who or how many vote fraudulently is when they get caught.

The reality today is votes are precious, not a vote. In the first presidential election there 43,000 votes. In 2016, there were 130 million votes. Just recently, LA county said 118,000 voters were accidentally left all voter rosters, about 3 times the total number of votes in our first presidential election. It is not unusually that thousands of ballots out of millions in a state will be misplaced or tabulated incorrectly. Sometimes they are found and sometimes not. As long as the ballots that are disqualified or mis-tabulated will not make a difference in the outcome, they are largely ignored.

In every presidential election there are thousands of votes that are not counted and many times that number that are not allowed to vote because of various purging rules of voting rosters.

So we are supposed be alarmed over fraudulently voting when it's discovered that 10 people voted fraudulently over a 6 year period in national elections, one women is sent to jail, 733 people could have voted twice because they were on the rolls for more one state and at the same time tens of thousands of valid voters are purged from the rolls and over hundred thousand legal register voters are simple lost.

The whole controversy about more validation of the votes and voter ids is based on the unproven claim that large number of non-citizens are voting in national elections. Also the presumption that adding voter ids will reduce the number of democratic votes is unproven. In other words, it's much ado about nothing.

According to Democrats Voter-ID is racist and does affect Democrat voters only.

There are F-ups in every election. To count the amount of votes cast is a daunting task. It takes electronics to assist to get the results as quickly as we get them. But because of that, mistakes are made. Those mistakes only come up when a Democrat loses.

The only time ballots that are misplaced are ignored is when it wouldn't make a difference in the outcome. If a congressional candidate wins by 15,000 votes, and 15,000 votes are found afterwards, it won't make a difference because it's likely not every one of those votes likely didn't go to that candidate. However, if they found 15,000 votes and a candidate lost by let's say 2,000, you can bet anything they will be counted and counted under a microscope.

Neither democrats nor republicans know how voter id's will effect outcomes. One source is saying voter ids were responsible for 200,000 less turnout in 2016. However, any reduction in turnout seems to be about the same for both parties.

Are voter id's racist? Maybe. The idea is based on the believe that blacks will not go to the trouble of voting if they have to remember to bring their id to the polls. I guess people think they are too stupid or lazy. That idea seems pretty racist to me. IMHO, voter ids do reduce turnout but they are just about as likely to effect republican votes as democrat vote. However, the issues at stake and the candidates are a far bigger determinate than having to remember to carry your id to the poll.

Voter ID will discourage Democrat voters because yes, many of them are lower income people who won't take the time to get an ID and the Democrats know this.

But of course they can't say it that way, so they make up this race thing instead.

Republican voters will crawl though a mound of snow to get to the polls. Many Democrat voters will only vote if it's convenient enough: multiple day voting; late hour voting; busses to take them to the polls; vote my mail.

We Republicans will wait in line for hours if necessary because voting is important to us. It's not as important to many Democrat voters; especially in the inner-city.

However race has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah ? So that means we need to step up our deportations, by adding 100 times as many ICE agents as we have now. Same with CBO and build the wall. Thanks for the tip.

Oh, dummy, you see, the thing is, they'll just find more ways to get in. and then Trump will get voted out and we'll tear down the walls and have real immigration reform.

Too sad for you bigots.

You actually think it has something to do with qualifications ? No, you know damn well, it's just racial discrimination against whites, and you're for it, you racist traitor.

I'm all for dumping on the dumb white trash that keep voting Republican and wonder why they still live in trailer parks.

Hey, want to really stick up for people? Have every place unionized and have a mandetory living wage. Then there won't be an incentive to hire undocumented labor.

As for " labor the rest of us don't want to do" it's not the labor it's the wage rate. So you support those sub-minimum wage rates for American workers then ? AND it's Americans who are doing the toughest, dirtiest, and most dangerous jobs in America, not illegal aliens.

Guy, we went over this. Those tough jobs are done by unionized workers paid by the government, the kind of socialism your sort decries.