What if a Jewish baker refused to create a Hitler cake?

[PaintMyHouse]

Gay wedding cake------------------------------Straight wedding cake.

What's the problem here kids, they are both as fucking gay as Richard Simmons. Just bake damn things and let's mush on.

 

[Clementine]

Probably not. And if they don't, someone can't demand that the do so.

Honestly, why would anyone want a cake baked by someone whose religious beliefs made them not want to serve you? While I doubt anyone would be mean enough to put something in the cake, like ex-lax, I think the cake would have bad karma.

Forcing people to go against their beliefs doesn't help in the long run. People will either close down businesses and eliminate jobs and revenue that will hurt the economy or they will be even more resentful after being forced to do something they find wrong.

We can't judge everyone for not believing the way we do. Why not boycott stores you disagree with instead of demanding service? We didn't see gays lining up at Chic fil a. They made the decision to stay away and encouraged the public to do so. Same thing would work for bakeries.

My suggestion would be that owners list their business as a Christian business and let it be known upfront that they stick to certain values.

You wouldn't force a religious bookstore to carry books favoring gays or other religions.

If a store doesn't advertise as one practicing certain values, it should be open to all.

I'd rather save my rage for those who kill or harm people because of radical beliefs. I find it sad that I can easily find thousands of comments from the left expressing outrage over cakes and other things, but so few expressing outrage over the millions of radical Muslims killing and the high number of "peaceful" Muslims silent. The left all but refuses to criticize any Muslims.

 

[hadit]

That's irrelevant. What's in play here is defining the circumstances under which a vendor can refuse to enter into a contract with a customer, if there are any. Thus, it is legitimate to ask, if Christian run businesses can be forced to do business with those whose lives they oppose (something I disagree with, BTW), can we not then force, say, a black owned catering business to cater a KKK event, should the local KKK group wish to seriously mess with them? I mean, that's really what's going on here. Some gay people want to be refused service so they can squeal loudly and pretend to be offended.

Of course you think it is 'irrelevant'.

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

Some Christians want to be able to refuse service, and that is why they are squeling loudly and pretending to be offended.

It's a legitimate question. Do you think a Black Southern Baptist run caterer can be force to cater a KKK event?

And these are legitimate questions:

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

*.

And so it goes. Around and around. You fucktards made it perfectly clear what you thought of freedom of religion and freedom of speech with the ridiculous queer marriage and hate speech legislations. At this point, I think we should just go to war.

And these are legitimate questions for you fucktards- especially the 'brave' fucktwards as yourself who volunteer others to go kill homosexuals...

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

If he claims to be a Christian, he would need to show where Christian belief can be construed to make those people sinful for being black, female, or a veteran. I don't think he could.

 

[Zoom-boing]

That's irrelevant. What's in play here is defining the circumstances under which a vendor can refuse to enter into a contract with a customer, if there are any. Thus, it is legitimate to ask, if Christian run businesses can be forced to do business with those whose lives they oppose (something I disagree with, BTW), can we not then force, say, a black owned catering business to cater a KKK event, should the local KKK group wish to seriously mess with them? I mean, that's really what's going on here. Some gay people want to be refused service so they can squeal loudly and pretend to be offended.

Of course you think it is 'irrelevant'.

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

Some Christians want to be able to refuse service, and that is why they are squeling loudly and pretending to be offended.

It's a legitimate question. Do you think a Black Southern Baptist run caterer can be force to cater a KKK event?

And these are legitimate questions:

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

*.

And so it goes. Around and around. You fucktards made it perfectly clear what you thought of freedom of religion and freedom of speech with the ridiculous queer marriage and hate speech legislations. At this point, I think we should just go to war.

And these are legitimate questions for you fucktards- especially the 'brave' fucktwards as yourself who volunteer others to go kill homosexuals...

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

What part of his religion conflicts with doing business with those listed? What part conflicts with doing business with gays? Some Christians bakers are objecting to one thing ... the baking of cakes for ss weddings. Not because they hate gays but because of their religious convictions on the ss marriage part.

 

[hadit]

It's a legitimate question. Do you think a Black Southern Baptist run caterer can be force to cater a KKK event?

And these are legitimate questions:

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

*.

And so it goes. Around and around. You fucktards made it perfectly clear what you thought of freedom of religion and freedom of speech with the ridiculous queer marriage and hate speech legislations. At this point, I think we should just go to war.

And these are legitimate questions for you fucktards- especially the 'brave' fucktwards as yourself who volunteer others to go kill homosexuals...

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

no...because he will never be able to prove in a court of law that his religion forbids him from doing business with those people.

You are aware, I am sure, that the law strictly gives a business owner the right to use religion as his defense...which also means he would have to prove that religion was the reason?

Yes?

That is premised on the idea that religion should be a legitimate reason in the first place. What if a guy just hates black people, and then decides that he 'religiously' hates black people and that they should be separated from white people,

and that is his God's will?

How do you defeat that argument?

Show me the documentation that your religion forbids you to serve black people, then watch your "business" circle the drain and disappear. You either accomodate personal belief or you do not. If you do, then boo-hoo, someone doesn't get a wedding cake with 5 people on it. If you do not, then Muslims can't refuse to cater Jewish weddings, Black Southern Baptists can't refuse to cater KKK rallies, and so on.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Of course you think it is 'irrelevant'.

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

Some Christians want to be able to refuse service, and that is why they are squeling loudly and pretending to be offended.

It's a legitimate question. Do you think a Black Southern Baptist run caterer can be force to cater a KKK event?

And these are legitimate questions:

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

*.

And so it goes. Around and around. You fucktards made it perfectly clear what you thought of freedom of religion and freedom of speech with the ridiculous queer marriage and hate speech legislations. At this point, I think we should just go to war.

And these are legitimate questions for you fucktards- especially the 'brave' fucktwards as yourself who volunteer others to go kill homosexuals...

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

What part of his religion conflicts with doing business with those listed? What part conflicts with doing business with gays? Some Christians bakers are objecting to one thing ... the baking of cakes for ss weddings. Not because they hate gays but because of their religious convictions on the ss marriage part.

Ah...but therein lies the rub. You see, they are not allowed to have those "beliefs". They must put them away and do WHATEVER their clientele asks of them. They are Christian - they are not allowed to have and hold beliefs.

 

[koshergrl]

Of course you think it is 'irrelevant'.

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

Some Christians want to be able to refuse service, and that is why they are squeling loudly and pretending to be offended.

It's a legitimate question. Do you think a Black Southern Baptist run caterer can be force to cater a KKK event?

And these are legitimate questions:

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

*.

And so it goes. Around and around. You fucktards made it perfectly clear what you thought of freedom of religion and freedom of speech with the ridiculous queer marriage and hate speech legislations. At this point, I think we should just go to war.

And these are legitimate questions for you fucktards- especially the 'brave' fucktwards as yourself who volunteer others to go kill homosexuals...

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

What part of his religion conflicts with doing business with those listed? What part conflicts with doing business with gays? Some Christians bakers are objecting to one thing ... the baking of cakes for ss weddings. Not because they hate gays but because of their religious convictions on the ss marriage part.

They are being deliberately obtuse.

Or maybe it's not deliberate.

The end is the same.

 

[Syriusly]

Of course you think it is 'irrelevant'.

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

Some Christians want to be able to refuse service, and that is why they are squeling loudly and pretending to be offended.

It's a legitimate question. Do you think a Black Southern Baptist run caterer can be force to cater a KKK event?

And these are legitimate questions:

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

*.

And so it goes. Around and around. You fucktards made it perfectly clear what you thought of freedom of religion and freedom of speech with the ridiculous queer marriage and hate speech legislations. At this point, I think we should just go to war.

And these are legitimate questions for you fucktards- especially the 'brave' fucktwards as yourself who volunteer others to go kill homosexuals...

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

If he claims to be a Christian, he would need to show where Christian belief can be construed to make those people sinful for being black, female, or a veteran. I don't think he could.

Show to who?

Who is going to be judging what is a 'Christian belief'?

There were ministers in the 1960's who actively preached that God commanded that Blacks and Whites were to be seperated- and going back to the slavery days, there were ministers who preached that slavery of blacks was right out of the Bible.

This is the thing with saying that anyone can refuse to do anything because of 'their closely held religious belief'- who decides what is a genuine closely held religious belief- and which is just an excuse for discrimination?

 

[Syriusly]

It's a legitimate question. Do you think a Black Southern Baptist run caterer can be force to cater a KKK event?

And these are legitimate questions:

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

*.

And so it goes. Around and around. You fucktards made it perfectly clear what you thought of freedom of religion and freedom of speech with the ridiculous queer marriage and hate speech legislations. At this point, I think we should just go to war.

And these are legitimate questions for you fucktards- especially the 'brave' fucktwards as yourself who volunteer others to go kill homosexuals...

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

What part of his religion conflicts with doing business with those listed? What part conflicts with doing business with gays? Some Christians bakers are objecting to one thing ... the baking of cakes for ss weddings. Not because they hate gays but because of their religious convictions on the ss marriage part.

Ah...but therein lies the rub. You see, they are not allowed to have those "beliefs". They must put them away and do WHATEVER their clientele asks of them. They are Christian - they are not allowed to have and hold beliefs.

Ah...but therein lies the rub.

All business's are expected to follow the same rules- even business's run by Christians.

There is no special religious exemption for Christians.

 

[thereisnospoon]

religion or politics?

the difference is soooooooooooo confusing to RW's.

Hey genius....This IS political..
The new Indiana law has been politicized by YOUR side.
And the good news is, your side will pay heavy political penalty points for this latest big lie.

 

[Syriusly]

So the way I see it, if an owner of a Religious Items store...one that sells items for all religions....is approached by an atheist who asks why he does not see atheist materials such as "there is no God" t-shirts...and he says it is not appropriate for his store...and that atheist opts to sue him for discrimination.....according to the left...that store owner can not use "religion" as part of his defense for not selling atheist friendly items?

Now, bear in mind....Atheism has been considered a religion in a court of law...so yes, the store owner can be cited for discriminating if he displays items from all other religions...

Thoughts?

I see where you are heading and I agree. The first thing that MUST be understood is that the left doesn't really care. The point of this nonsense is to destroy religion (except, of course Islam). Christians are easy targets. You know, all that "Turn the other cheek stuff". So the left has made it their mission to exterminate religion in this country. The sad part? They WILL succeed. When you have the courts, the press and the power of the White House behind you - it is all but a done deal.

Think Bolshevik. It worked in Russia - it will work here.
]

Yeah- 'destroy Christians' by saying that they have to follow the same rules as Muslims, Jews atheists, and every other Christians.....quite the conspiracy there.

 

[Syriusly]

So the way I see it, if an owner of a Religious Items store...one that sells items for all religions....is approached by an atheist who asks why he does not see atheist materials such as "there is no God" t-shirts...and he says it is not appropriate for his store...and that atheist opts to sue him for discrimination.....according to the left...that store owner can not use "religion" as part of his defense for not selling atheist friendly items?

Now, bear in mind....Atheism has been considered a religion in a court of law...so yes, the store owner can be cited for discriminating if he displays items from all other religions...

Thoughts?

The law doesn't require a business owner to stock product he doesn't carry. A kosher butcher is not required to stock pork or even order pork.

But that same owner of the religious store couldn't refuse to sell his product to someone because he was a Jew or a Muslim.

 

[RandallFlagg]

And these are legitimate questions:

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

*.

And so it goes. Around and around. You fucktards made it perfectly clear what you thought of freedom of religion and freedom of speech with the ridiculous queer marriage and hate speech legislations. At this point, I think we should just go to war.

And these are legitimate questions for you fucktards- especially the 'brave' fucktwards as yourself who volunteer others to go kill homosexuals...

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

What part of his religion conflicts with doing business with those listed? What part conflicts with doing business with gays? Some Christians bakers are objecting to one thing ... the baking of cakes for ss weddings. Not because they hate gays but because of their religious convictions on the ss marriage part.

Ah...but therein lies the rub. You see, they are not allowed to have those "beliefs". They must put them away and do WHATEVER their clientele asks of them. They are Christian - they are not allowed to have and hold beliefs.

Ah...but therein lies the rub.

All business's are expected to follow the same rules- even business's run by Christians.

There is no special religious exemption for Christians.

Nope. As far as I know, the businesses in these cases didn't have same sex wedding toppers for sale in their stores. Sorry - we don't carry them and we don't put them on our cakes. And no, you can NOT provide your own to place on the cake. Now, if you wish to purchase a cake and do whatever the hell you want to when you get it out of the store, then fine. But under no circumstances am I going to place that thing on top of one of my wedding cakes. Period.

 

[thereisnospoon]

But that's DIFFERENT:

" Opponents of the new law in Indiana clearly have no problem with a Christian business owner being forced to provide a product or service which is directly in conflict with their religious beliefs, but what if there were other religions involved? For one example, let’s say that a small family farmer has slaughtered one of his hogs but his usual butcher has either passed on or retired from business. Selecting a new butcher from the yellow pages, the farmer loads up his truck and heads down to a different shop. If that butcher turns out to be a Muslim, can he refuse to take the farmer’s business because it goes against his beliefs? This can’t be too far fetched of a story since Target has had to make accommodations for Muslim cashiers who don’t want to ring up purchases of pork products. If laws allowing for religious objections are so wrong, should the government come in and force the workers to handle and ring up the bacon? Should the Muslim butcher be sued and have his business shut down for not cutting up the hog?
"The second example isn’t specifically based on one religion, but speaks more to the freedom of a vendor to refuse service which they find objectionable regardless of the free speech rights of each party involved. It’s more interesting, though, because it is based on such an exact parallel to the gay wedding cake orders which are at the heart of the RFRA debate. What if the baker is Jewish, not Christian, and the customer in question wants to order a specialty “face cake” depicting Hitler?"

How would RFRA opponents deal with the Hitler cake Hot Air

Show us please where Christianity says not to serve sinners.

Love sinner. Hate the sin....The sin is not separated from the sinner.
In the Christian religion, sinners are shown compassion and offered a chance to repent for their sin. According to Christian faith, the repent is absolved by placing faith in the Lord.
Giving one's self to God.
If the sinner refuses to repent, he is rejected.
Now, what else would you like to discuss?

 

[Dragonlady]

I demand that our local jewish deli cater my pork Barbeque. We want pig ribs, hams, and pork roast. We demand it. If they refuse we will sue for discrimination. We also want some jewish beer, the deli owner, He-brews it.

If the deli owner doesn't sell or serve pork, he's not catering your BBQ. You have no right to demand he sell you something he doesn't stock or sell. And your law suit fails.

The example up thread is also a fail. The KKK isn't a protected class. And unless the baker is in the habit of delivering to or catering after dark picnics in the woods, he isn't going to have to cater this event either.

You conservatives can't even figure out what these people are doing that is actionable.

As a Christian, I am offended that these businesses, who claim to be Christians are breaking one of the two commandments that Jesus gave us: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Claiming to be a Christian opposed to baking a wedding cake for a gay couple on religious grounds is not a valid objection. It violates Jesus own commandments.

 

[Syriusly]

*.

And so it goes. Around and around. You fucktards made it perfectly clear what you thought of freedom of religion and freedom of speech with the ridiculous queer marriage and hate speech legislations. At this point, I think we should just go to war.

And these are legitimate questions for you fucktards- especially the 'brave' fucktwards as yourself who volunteer others to go kill homosexuals...

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

What part of his religion conflicts with doing business with those listed? What part conflicts with doing business with gays? Some Christians bakers are objecting to one thing ... the baking of cakes for ss weddings. Not because they hate gays but because of their religious convictions on the ss marriage part.

Ah...but therein lies the rub. You see, they are not allowed to have those "beliefs". They must put them away and do WHATEVER their clientele asks of them. They are Christian - they are not allowed to have and hold beliefs.

Ah...but therein lies the rub.

All business's are expected to follow the same rules- even business's run by Christians.

There is no special religious exemption for Christians.

Nope. As far as I know, the businesses in these cases didn't have same sex wedding toppers for sale in their stores. Sorry - we don't carry them and we don't put them on our cakes. And no, you can NOT provide your own to place on the cake. Now, if you wish to purchase a cake and do whatever the hell you want to when you get it out of the store, then fine. But under no circumstances am I going to place that thing on top of one of my wedding cakes. Period.

And once again:

Ah...but therein lies the rub.

All business's are expected to follow the same rules- even business's run by Christians.

There is no special religious exemption for Christians.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

"What if a Jewish baker refused to create a Hitler cake?"

Hitler would have mercilessly sued that baker, taking everything they had from them, through whatever means was necessary... and all SO positively LEGAL!

Which feels fairly familiar, for some reason.

 

[RandallFlagg]

And these are legitimate questions for you fucktards- especially the 'brave' fucktwards as yourself who volunteer others to go kill homosexuals...

If a Christian run business cannot be forced to do business because of the owners religious belief- can he refuse to do business with a Jew?
With an African American?
With a woman?
With a veteran?

What part of his religion conflicts with doing business with those listed? What part conflicts with doing business with gays? Some Christians bakers are objecting to one thing ... the baking of cakes for ss weddings. Not because they hate gays but because of their religious convictions on the ss marriage part.

Ah...but therein lies the rub. You see, they are not allowed to have those "beliefs". They must put them away and do WHATEVER their clientele asks of them. They are Christian - they are not allowed to have and hold beliefs.

Ah...but therein lies the rub.

All business's are expected to follow the same rules- even business's run by Christians.

There is no special religious exemption for Christians.

Nope. As far as I know, the businesses in these cases didn't have same sex wedding toppers for sale in their stores. Sorry - we don't carry them and we don't put them on our cakes. And no, you can NOT provide your own to place on the cake. Now, if you wish to purchase a cake and do whatever the hell you want to when you get it out of the store, then fine. But under no circumstances am I going to place that thing on top of one of my wedding cakes. Period.

And once again:

Ah...but therein lies the rub.

All business's are expected to follow the same rules- even business's run by Christians.

There is no special religious exemption for Christians.

Again - if it ain't in my inventory (those same sex wedding cake toppers) you are SOL. go somewhere else. Or can I go into a Walmart and demand that they begin carrying Ralph Lauren shirts? Get your act together, sonny.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Can we have a show of hands from those who feel that the Advocacy to Normalize the Mental Disorder that presents with Sexual Abnormality, is SO CRITICAL that it supersedes the means of Christians to exercise their God-given rights?

 

[RandallFlagg]

"What if a Jewish baker refused to create a Hitler cake?"

Hitler would have mercilessly sued that baker, taking everything they had from them, through whatever means was necessary... and all SO positively LEGAL!

Which feels fairly familiar, for some reason.

Indeed.

It's coming to an America near you soon....