What if there is no god?

[PeterH]

I am God.

 

[Chaussette]

Let people believe what they want to believe. No one has the right to tell someone what is true and what is not.

So 2 + 2 = 5 is cool with you?

 

[Newby]

Let people believe what they want to believe. No one has the right to tell someone what is true and what is not.

So 2 + 2 = 5 is cool with you?

Did you make the mistaken assumption that he was talking about everything? Or maybe he was just talking about religious belief? Hmmm...

 

[Chaussette]

Let people believe what they want to believe. No one has the right to tell someone what is true and what is not.

So 2 + 2 = 5 is cool with you?

Did you make the mistaken assumption that he was talking about everything? Or maybe he was just talking about religious belief? Hmmm...

Truth is truth. And the truth is, there's no actual tangible proof of a god's existence. It's a theory.

 

[GISMYS]

So 2 + 2 = 5 is cool with you?

Did you make the mistaken assumption that he was talking about everything? Or maybe he was just talking about religious belief? Hmmm...

Truth is truth. And the truth is, there's no actual tangible proof of a god's existence. It's a theory.

Try to think! Life and all the known universe is proof of God,what does that truth say about you that you feel you need more proof????

 

[dblack]

Of course I'd live differently if there was no God. But there is a God. And my life is much better off for acknowledging and living as more than just an animal.

But how would you live differently? I hope you can appreciate the motivation for asking such a question. I can't speak to the intent of the OP, but I find the question deeply interesting. The point, in my view, is to understand the where your moral convictions come from. In particular, were you drawn to the god you believe in because it aligned with morals and values you already possessed, or did you adopt your morals and values because of your belief? If it's the latter, how would they change if you lost your faith?

If your question is an honest one, then good for you, however, I see it more as a 'gotchya' game that you're playing. From the way you ask the question, it is very clear that you don't understand the nuance of a personal relationship with God, so you only know how to mock it due to your lack of understanding. Read the Bible is my suggestion to you, really read it with an open mind, and you will find your answers. Having a relationship with God has nothing to do with morals or values or anyone's decision to have them or not have them. There are people all over the world who reject the notion of God, yet are moral people. So the idea that someone who once believed in God, but then found out He didn't exist, suddenly changes their values or morals, is not a sound one. You want to imply that the only reason people of faith are moral is because they're afraid of some form of punishment from God? Please, have at it, but you're completely missing the boat, and you don't even understand why.

Nope. You're still on the defensive - for no reason. I'm not assuming anything, I'm asking the question. Would your views change, and if so how? If not, why not? Part of what I'm curious about is whether your innate personal values draw you to your religion, or whether your religion informs your personal values - or some combination. It's not an attack or a gotcha - not on my part at least. Honestly!

You say that a relationship with God has nothing to do moral or values, and I can accept that as your view - but people routinely ask atheists where their moral come from, often suggesting that without that relationship, no reliable morals could exist. So it would seem not everyone shares your view.

 

[dblack]

No he's not. He is trying to denigrate people of faith.

I can't speak to the intentions of the OP. But I'm asking the question, with absolutely no intent to denigrate anyone. I have a great deal of respect for traditions of faith, and I honestly think this in an interesting question. But most of you aren't even listening.

There are some answers you'll only get after you are gone.

Faith costs Me nothing.

Ito obviously costs him a great deal.

You're missing the point of the question. It's not asking what it costs you, it's asking how your values and convictions would be different without it.

Listen, I get that there was a snide tone to the OP, and that's a shame because it's put you guys on a defensive track that has closed your mind to the fact that it's actually a really interesting question, for both people of faith and those of us without. It offers an opportunity for real understanding. I know religious people who actually love to talk about this kind of stuff. It's just kind of disappointing no one here is interested.

Why are you making the assumption that they would be different?

I'm not.

 

[Newby]

So 2 + 2 = 5 is cool with you?

Did you make the mistaken assumption that he was talking about everything? Or maybe he was just talking about religious belief? Hmmm...

Truth is truth. And the truth is, there's no actual tangible proof of a god's existence. It's a theory.

*Sigh* That's why it's called a 'belief' sweetie, no one is forcing you to accept it as 'truth'. And that's what the person you responded to was talking about, not mathematical facts. So, you look foolish with your comment about 2+2=5 in response to that comment. Get it?

 

[Newby]

But how would you live differently? I hope you can appreciate the motivation for asking such a question. I can't speak to the intent of the OP, but I find the question deeply interesting. The point, in my view, is to understand the where your moral convictions come from. In particular, were you drawn to the god you believe in because it aligned with morals and values you already possessed, or did you adopt your morals and values because of your belief? If it's the latter, how would they change if you lost your faith?

If your question is an honest one, then good for you, however, I see it more as a 'gotchya' game that you're playing. From the way you ask the question, it is very clear that you don't understand the nuance of a personal relationship with God, so you only know how to mock it due to your lack of understanding. Read the Bible is my suggestion to you, really read it with an open mind, and you will find your answers. Having a relationship with God has nothing to do with morals or values or anyone's decision to have them or not have them. There are people all over the world who reject the notion of God, yet are moral people. So the idea that someone who once believed in God, but then found out He didn't exist, suddenly changes their values or morals, is not a sound one. You want to imply that the only reason people of faith are moral is because they're afraid of some form of punishment from God? Please, have at it, but you're completely missing the boat, and you don't even understand why.

Nope. You're still on the defensive - for no reason. I'm not assuming anything, I'm asking the question. Would your views change, and if so how? If not, why not? Part of what I'm curious about is whether your innate personal values draw you to your religion, or whether your religion informs your personal values - or some combination. It's not an attack or a gotcha - not on my part at least. Honestly!

You say that a relationship with God has nothing to do moral or values, and I can accept that as your view - but people routinely ask atheists where their moral come from, often suggesting that without that relationship, no reliable morals could exist. So it would seem not everyone shares your view.

I'm not on any defensive, I just simply refuted your implication that anyone's morals would change were their belief in God to change. Why don't you ask someone who was once a christian and now they are not? There are plenty of them out there, find how how their morals and values changed now that they are an atheist? Perhaps they feel they have more morals and values, people that I have come across on message boards professing to be atheists are routinely claiming moral and intelletual superiority over those of faith. So perhaps they could better answer your questions.

I don't know any 'people' that would ask an atheist where their moral values come from, or question whether or not they have them since they have no belief in God, so I guess you'll have to find someone who has done so and ask them your questions.

 

[Newby]

I can't speak to the intentions of the OP. But I'm asking the question, with absolutely no intent to denigrate anyone. I have a great deal of respect for traditions of faith, and I honestly think this in an interesting question. But most of you aren't even listening.



You're missing the point of the question. It's not asking what it costs you, it's asking how your values and convictions would be different without it.

Listen, I get that there was a snide tone to the OP, and that's a shame because it's put you guys on a defensive track that has closed your mind to the fact that it's actually a really interesting question, for both people of faith and those of us without. It offers an opportunity for real understanding. I know religious people who actually love to talk about this kind of stuff. It's just kind of disappointing no one here is interested.

Why are you making the assumption that they would be different?

I'm not.

If you say so...

 

[GISMYS]

If your question is an honest one, then good for you, however, I see it more as a 'gotchya' game that you're playing. From the way you ask the question, it is very clear that you don't understand the nuance of a personal relationship with God, so you only know how to mock it due to your lack of understanding. Read the Bible is my suggestion to you, really read it with an open mind, and you will find your answers. Having a relationship with God has nothing to do with morals or values or anyone's decision to have them or not have them. There are people all over the world who reject the notion of God, yet are moral people. So the idea that someone who once believed in God, but then found out He didn't exist, suddenly changes their values or morals, is not a sound one. You want to imply that the only reason people of faith are moral is because they're afraid of some form of punishment from God? Please, have at it, but you're completely missing the boat, and you don't even understand why.

Nope. You're still on the defensive - for no reason. I'm not assuming anything, I'm asking the question. Would your views change, and if so how? If not, why not? Part of what I'm curious about is whether your innate personal values draw you to your religion, or whether your religion informs your personal values - or some combination. It's not an attack or a gotcha - not on my part at least. Honestly!

You say that a relationship with God has nothing to do moral or values, and I can accept that as your view - but people routinely ask atheists where their moral come from, often suggesting that without that relationship, no reliable morals could exist. So it would seem not everyone shares your view.

I'm not on any defensive, I just simply refuted your implication that anyone's morals would change were their belief in God to change. Why don't you ask someone who was once a christian and now they are not? There are plenty of them out there, find how how their morals and values changed now that they are an atheist? Perhaps they feel they have more morals and values, people that I have come across on message boards professing to be atheists are routinely claiming moral and intelletual superiority over those of faith. So perhaps they could better answer your questions.

I don't know any 'people' that would ask an atheist where their moral values come from, or question whether or not they have them since they have no belief in God, so I guess you'll have to find someone who has done so and ask them your questions.

Anyone that was ever a true believer "is" a believer today.

 

[Chuckt]

With the local child abduction and murder yesterday, sometimes I really hope there isn't a god. If there is, and I ever meet Him I wanna kick his ass.

Ah. The problem of evil.

If God is to get rid of all the evil, He would have to get rid of you and me because we've been wrong, we've hurt people unintentionally. God doesn't grade on a curve. We either ask for forgiveness and look to Him for salvation or we pay for sin ourselves.

God is going to deal with the evil one day by separating the sheep from the goats and the question is whether you are going to be with Him or not.

 

[pacer]

Here is what one hard core Christian had to say on losing her faith and taking responsiblity for her own life:

"I realized that I can be a positive force for change and that I don't have to do it with the motivation of "ministry" or "outreach" or "winning souls for Jesus" -- there was one speaker at that Christian event I always went to who loved the tagline "Gettin' sweaty for Jesus!" and I realized I didn't want to get sweaty for Jesus. But for other people? Most definitely.

I no longer want to feel like I'm incapable, or inherently flawed, or unable to do things without God. It feels more empowering, great, and wonderful to believe in myself, and know I can do things because I can. And that I'm not a product of sin, but a human being with wishes, hopes and dreams. I have infinite possibilities, not because a god allows it to be so, but because humanity has been, for thousands of years, in the midst of evil, war, and greed, working to also create goodness, and build a better world, and I can continue on that fight for a better world, not for the motivation of heaven at the end of my life, but the assurance that my children and children's children can continue to build, innovate, and create in a better and more beautiful world than I can imagine.

And that, to me, is enough."

I Was a Hardcore Christian, But This Is Why I Lost My Faith | Jessie Golem

 

[Chaussette]

With the local child abduction and murder yesterday, sometimes I really hope there isn't a god. If there is, and I ever meet Him I wanna kick his ass.

Ah. The problem of evil.

If God is to get rid of all the evil, He would have to get rid of you and me because we've been wrong, we've hurt people unintentionally. God doesn't grade on a curve. We either ask for forgiveness and look to Him for salvation or we pay for sin ourselves.

God is going to deal with the evil one day by separating the sheep from the goats and the question is whether you are going to be with Him or not.

So god isn't powerful enough to eliminate all the evil in the world and make us all inherently good forever? WoW! What a fucking douche your god is.

 

[Chuckt]

With the local child abduction and murder yesterday, sometimes I really hope there isn't a god. If there is, and I ever meet Him I wanna kick his ass.

Ah. The problem of evil.

If God is to get rid of all the evil, He would have to get rid of you and me because we've been wrong, we've hurt people unintentionally. God doesn't grade on a curve. We either ask for forgiveness and look to Him for salvation or we pay for sin ourselves.

God is going to deal with the evil one day by separating the sheep from the goats and the question is whether you are going to be with Him or not.

So god isn't powerful enough to eliminate all the evil in the world and make us all inherently good forever? WoW! What a fucking douche your god is.

He already eliminated most of the evil by the flood.
He is going to do it again in The Tribulation.
He is going to do it again at the White Throne Judgment.

 

[daws101]

It's too bad you're ruled by your insecurity.

not at all ...it's a swing and a miss...

Completely ruled by your insecurity, with a big dose of existential fear on top.

strike two!

 

[daws101]

Believing that God is all forgiving is irreparably flawed. He is not.
He is capable of being such, but without you accepting the salvation provided through His Son, He has no choice but to judge you clothed in your sin. The penalty for sin is death.
He offered you a sin free alternative because He loves you. You declined the offer. Your devastating choice, for all eternity.

the penalty for sin is death? not much of a threat as we all die anyway...
ever seen anybody die instantly from sin? I don't mean car accidents or heart attacks etc..
as I understand it, that line is an immediate threat.. as in if you do that you die, right then and there...not from other causes later on ...

typical believer reaction when they're dogma proves silly!

 

[daws101]

So 2 + 2 = 5 is cool with you?

Did you make the mistaken assumption that he was talking about everything? Or maybe he was just talking about religious belief? Hmmm...

Truth is truth. And the truth is, there's no actual tangible proof of a god's existence. It's a theory.

bump! if only posters like newby could see that!

 

[daws101]

the penalty for sin is death? not much of a threat as we all die anyway...
ever seen anybody die instantly from sin? I don't mean car accidents or heart attacks etc..
as I understand it, that line is an immediate threat.. as in if you do that you die, right then and there...not from other causes later on ...

I think you missed the point. He's referring to the metaphysical not the physical. According to Biblical teachings "death" means an eternity away from the presence of God, an eternity in hell if you will. Believers believe the soul, a persons true essence, will suffer eternally because they rejected salvation though Jesus Christ in physical life. It has to do with God's word, what he has spoken hence what he cannot, because of who he is, go back on. According to the teachings, God required sacrifice for the atonement of sin and ultimately came down to earth in the human form of Jesus to be the perfect, final sacrifice for all who accept that as truth. Again, it's the metaphysical and as I have stated numerous time unprovable, though I will add, except by dying and finding out one way or the other. Just relaying what the teaching says.

Hence my head banging to his post. This dude constantly preaches, berates, marginalizes, maligns, and harasses people of faith, yet he's too damn stupid to realize how his comments show his complete lack of understanding of wtf he's even talking about.

false.....

 

[Unkotare]

With the local child abduction and murder yesterday, sometimes I really hope there isn't a god. If there is, and I ever meet Him I wanna kick his ass.

That really doesn't make any sense.