Zone1 What is a Jew?

[theHawk]

And would it, as a claim, have any impact on you? (and no, Jesus wasn't a heretic)

Just so you understand how useful your name calling is.

So why did the Jews have him crucified then?

 

[rosends]

A covenant is a promise from God. Did God break those promises? No.

Are you claiming that God’s covenant with David and Moses meant that previous covenants were broken by God? Of course not, so why would this one be any different.

God kept his promise, but still made a new promise.

OK then -- in that case, the earlier promise is still fully in effect and will continue to be. So then what do you see as the purpose of the new promise if the terms of it are identical and only the delivery is different?

And how do you reconcile what it says will happen (that people won't have to be taught about God because they will automatically know and accept) with the fact that, right here, you need to tell others about God?

 

[rosends]

So why did the Jews have him crucified then?

Romans had him crucified. They had 250,000 people crucified. They were an occupying force. Jews didn't have the power (nor was crucifixion a Jewish punishment, nor was the trial as described, possible, nor was any Jewish court at the time handing out death penalties). Plot holes you can drive a truck through and yet you buy it all.

 

[theHawk]

Romans had him crucified. They had 250,000 people crucified. They were an occupying force. Jews didn't have the power (nor was crucifixion a Jewish punishment, nor was the trial as described, possible, nor was any Jewish court at the time handing out death penalties). Plot holes you can drive a truck through and yet you buy it all.

Okay so you are just in full denial of what happened.

 

[rosends]

Okay so you are just in full denial of what happened.

no, you are just incredibly ignorant.

 

[theHawk]

And how do you reconcile what it says will happen (that people won't have to be taught about God because they will automatically know and accept) with the fact that, right here, you need to tell others about God?

It says that people who know him, and accept him, won’t need to tell each other about him. Because they know him and have been forgiven for their inequity and sins. Those that accept the New Covenant have their sins forgiven. So why would a Christian need to teach another Christian? They’ve both already accepted Jesus.

So it seems perfectly “reconciled” to me.

 

[theHawk]

no, you are just incredibly ignorant.

Who delivered Jesus to the Romans? The Jews.

 

[rosends]

It says that people who know him, and accept him, won’t need to tell each other about him. Because they know him and have been forgiven for their inequity and sins. Those that accept the New Covenant have their sins forgiven. So why would a Christian need to teach another Christian? They’ve both already accepted Jesus.

So it seems perfectly “reconciled” to me.

That's not what the text says -- it speaks of the house of Israel, not Christians. Is the Torah in your heart? Do you follow its laws?
Remember verse 36
If these laws should ever be annulled by Me
—declares GOD —
Only then would the offspring of Israel cease
To be a nation before Me for all time.

So the offspring of Israel are still God's nation and he isn't speaking of anyone else.

 

[rosends]

Who delivered Jesus to the Romans? The Jews.

"delivered"? I guess it isn't "crucified" anymore. Now it is just "delivered."
Why you choose to believe the stories in your gospels when they are so riddled with errors is another problem. But hey, you believe what you need to.

 

[theHawk]

That's not what the text says -- it speaks of the house of Israel, not Christians. Is the Torah in your heart? Do you follow its laws?
Remember verse 36
If these laws should ever be annulled by Me
—declares GOD —
Only then would the offspring of Israel cease
To be a nation before Me for all time.

So the offspring of Israel are still God's nation and he isn't speaking of anyone else.

Christians are the house of Israel. We are the ones that believe in the messiah that was prophesied.

 

[theHawk]

"delivered"? I guess it isn't "crucified" anymore. Now it is just "delivered."
Why you choose to believe the stories in your gospels when they are so riddled with errors is another problem. But hey, you believe what you need to.

Oh so the gospels are just “stories“ now.

Yet you have no problem believing texts about Noah and Abraham and Adam and Eve when those accounts were written how many centuries after the fact?

 

[rosends]

Christians are the house of Israel. We are the ones that believe in the messiah that was prophesied.

No, Jews are the house of Israel and were well before Jesus was born (you know, when Jeremiah prophesied to the people).

 

[rosends]

Oh so the gospels are just “stories“ now.

NO! They were just stories then also!

Yet you have no problem believing texts about Noah and Abraham and Adam and Eve when those accounts were written how many centuries after the fact?

Yup. I reject your stories and accept mine. You reject mine and accept yours.

 

[theHawk]

I am curious to know what you think the messiah will be like, and what he will do?

From the sound of it, Jews say it will just be a political leader.

 

[theHawk]

. You reject mine and accept yours

Wrong. We accept the Hebrew Bible and the prophets. You are the ones that reject them.

 

[rosends]

I am curious to know what you think the messiah will be like, and what he will do?

From the sound of it, Jews say it will just be a political leader.

He will be a political and religious leader. A human of piety.
Here is some reading

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/108400/jewish/The-End-of-Days.htm

 

[rosends]

Wrong. We accept the Hebrew Bible and the prophets. You are the ones that reject them.

If you accepted the Jewish bible then you would accept that prophecy ended 300 years before Jesus was born. If you accepted the Jewish bible, you would accept that Jesus could not be a messiah. If you accepted the Jewish bible, you would know that Daniel's text was not a book of prophecy.

There are SO many things that would be different if you accepted the Jewish bible. You accept the Christianized version of the Jewish texts and the parts of it and the interpretations that help your theology.

 

[theHawk]

He will be a political and religious leader. A human of piety.
Here is some reading

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/108400/jewish/The-End-of-Days.htm

“In Talmudic literature the title Moshiach…”

In other words in Judaism 2.0, after Jesus came they needed to redefine things, especially when it came to the messiah.

Most of that page does not cite any Hebrew Bible text to back up its claims. It just says it will be a political and religious leader and will somehow unite the entire world into believing in him.

 

[theHawk]

If you accepted the Jewish bible then you would accept that prophecy ended 300 years before Jesus was born

Why is that?

Last prophet was Malachi? But don’t you believe the messiah will be a prophet too?

 

[rosends]

“In Talmudic literature the title Moshiach…”

In other words in Judaism 2.0, after Jesus came they needed to redefine things, especially when it came to the messiah.

Most of that page does not cite any Hebrew Bible text to back up its claims. It just says it will be a political and religious leader and will somehow unite the entire world into believing in him.

If that's your opinion of the talmud. I feel that way about the gospels -- a bunch of later stories rigged to mine Jewish scripture and pervert it to justify a separate belief steeped in jealousy of Jews. Go figure.

There isn't much in the Jewish written bible about the future messiah. Here are, though, four core prophecies

He must build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28)
-He must gather all the Jews back to the Land of Israel (Is. 43:5-6)
- He must usher in an era of world peace and bring an end to hatred, oppression, suffering and disease (Is. 2:4)
- He must spread the knowledge of the G-d of Israel, uniting the entire world as one (Zechariah 14:9)