What Is American Socialism, Communism, and Marxism: Open Q&A

[Red Front]

There already is talk of a basic salary or whatever they call it, with no work. That will be interesting if it happens....

The so-called "UBI" or Universal Basic Income, is a capitalist ploy to keep capitalism alive on life support, after the intelligent robots replace human labor. The UBI is essentially techno-feudalism. The current wealthy elites will own all of the robots and artificial intelligence. The powerful computers, self-driving vehicles, all of the facilities and equipment of mass production, while you and I, our families and friends, will be consigned to poverty and eventually to the compost heap. It's essentially this:

​

Ever watched the movie Elysium? That's the UBI or "Universal Basic Income". It makes everyone poor and only a few people will live in extreme abundance, due to their ownership of the means of production. You are a tool of the capitalists, fighting against genuine socialists. You're worse than the capitalists. People like you, have always backstabbed the real socialists. The wealthy ruling class love fake "socialists" like you, because you serve their interests, defending their for-profit system, when we should be gradually transitioning away from markets and "profits" (the private accumulation of capital/money). If we only produce to turn a profit, then nothing will get produced when the robots replace human wage-labor.

 

[frigidweirdo]

That's the real world definition of communism- dictatorship that owns all business and industry. Democracy will never stand for that... Your definition of communism is pie in the sky and will not happen. Socialism will do thank you, the United States ought to try it- everybody else already does even if the UK canada New Zealand and Australia don't know it. The UK english speaker Savage capitalist brainwash is very strong with them too.....

That's the US version of "Communism" which is "the simple things I saw the USSR doing".
I'm not a Communist and I agree that humans are too selfish for it.
Socialism with a capital S I don't think will work either. Small s socialism, as practiced in some European countries, can work.
The reality is, without a reason to work (ie, money), people won't bother to work hard enough.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The so-called "UBI" or Universal Basic Income, is a capitalist ploy to keep capitalism alive on life support, after the intelligent robots replace human labor. The UBI is essentially techno-feudalism. The current wealthy elites will own all of the robots and artificial intelligence. The powerful computers, self-driving vehicles, all of the facilities and equipment of mass production, while you and I, our families and friends, will be consigned to poverty and eventually to the compost heap. It's essentially this:

​

Ever watched the movie Elysium? That's the UBI or "Universal Basic Income". It makes everyone poor and only a few people will live in extreme abundance, due to their ownership of the means of production. You are a tool of the capitalists, fighting against genuine socialists. You're worse than the capitalists. People like you, have always backstabbed the real socialists. The wealthy ruling class love fake "socialists" like you, because you serve their interests, defending their for-profit system, when we should be gradually transitioning away from markets and "profits" (the private accumulation of capital/money). If we only produce to turn a profit, then nothing will get produced when the robots replace human wage-labor.

But, probably inevitable. What happens when robots can do everything cheaper? What do people then do?

 

[francoHFW]

The so-called "UBI" or Universal Basic Income, is a capitalist ploy to keep capitalism alive on life support, after the intelligent robots replace human labor. The UBI is essentially techno-feudalism. The current wealthy elites will own all of the robots and artificial intelligence. The powerful computers, self-driving vehicles, all of the facilities and equipment of mass production, while you and I, our families and friends, will be consigned to poverty and eventually to the compost heap. It's essentially this:

​

Ever watched the movie Elysium? That's the UBI or "Universal Basic Income". It makes everyone poor and only a few people will live in extreme abundance, due to their ownership of the means of production. You are a tool of the capitalists, fighting against genuine socialists. You're worse than the capitalists. People like you, have always backstabbed the real socialists. The wealthy ruling class love fake "socialists" like you, because you serve their interests, defending their for-profit system, when we should be gradually transitioning away from markets and "profits" (the private accumulation of capital/money). If we only produce to turn a profit, then nothing will get produced when the robots replace human wage-labor.

The real socialists my ****. That's communism. Every Socialist and every socialist party in every democracy ALWAYS is for always democratic fair capitalism with a good safety net. Looking far off in the future you may have a point. Right now it's science fiction... I actually believe there will always be something to do.... Have you spent much time in France or Canada or Italy or Norway? They work pretty damn well. Are all happier than Americans....

 

[francoHFW]

That's the US version of "Communism" which is "the simple things I saw the USSR doing".
I'm not a Communist and I agree that humans are too selfish for it.
Socialism with a capital S I don't think will work either. Small s socialism, as practiced in some European countries, can work.
The reality is, without a reason to work (ie, money), people won't bother to work hard enough.

All European countries, at least the original EU Etcetera and New Zealand Australia and the UK are all very similar governments. Socialist! Democratic fair capitalism with a good safety net-- the final stop for mankind thank you very much- Just needs better regulation.... As far as I know, you are the only US Communist going LOL that's a little too damn theoretical for me.....

 

[frigidweirdo]

All European countries, at least the original EU Etcetera and New Zealand Australia and the UK are all very similar governments. Socialist! Democratic fair capitalism with a good safety net-- the final stop for mankind thank you very much- Just needs better regulation.... As far as I know, you are the only US Communist going LOL that's a little too damn theoretical for me.....

I think you might have me mixed up with someone else. I'm not a Communist or a Socialist.
Yes, Europe has a safety net, sometimes those safety nets are too much, which causes problems of its own.

 

[sparky]

~S~

 

[Red Front]

The real socialists my ****. That's communism. Every Socialist and every socialist party in every democracy ALWAYS is for always democratic fair capitalism with a good safety net. Looking far off in the future you may have a point. Right now it's science fiction... I actually believe there will always be something to do.... Have you spent much time in France or Canada or Italy or Norway? They work pretty damn well. Are all happier than Americans....

You want to stay with capitalism when it's unsustainable. You're not a socialist, you're a liberal, social democrat. You serve your capitalist masters, or perhaps you're a capitalist yourself. You're here pretending to be a working-class European, when you're actually of the elite ruling, capitalist class. You're a pearl-clutching, disinformation agent, serving capitalism.

The movie Elysium is based on a story set over 100 years from now. We're going to have full automation, in the next thirty to forty years. It's estimated that in the next twenty years, half of all jobs are going to be eliminated by advanced automation. That's a conservative estimate. We had our Great Depression, in the 1930s, with only 23% unemployment. Hello? If we had a Great Depression, with 23% unemployment, imagine what will happen when the unemployment rises to 30%, 40%, and then even higher than that.

We should be transitioning now away from capitalism, in order to avoid the worst depression that we've ever experienced. We're looking at even more inequality, where the wealth is even more concentrated at the top. Social discontent and unrest will ensue as a result of advanced automation and artificial intelligence. We're sounding the alarm, for the working class to smell the coffee and take ownership of the means of production. We need to organize and begin electing true socialists into office, into positions of management, or we're going to end up living in squalor, receiving a "UBI" - Universal Basic Income. Do you want that for you and your loved ones? Living in scarcity on a "UBI" while a tiny privileged elite lives in extreme abundance?

 

[sparky]

You want to stay with capitalism when it's unsustainable. You're not a socialist, you're a liberal, social democrat. You serve your capitalist masters, or perhaps you're a capitalist yourself. You're here pretending to be a working-class European, when you're actually of the elite ruling, capitalist class. You're a pearl-clutching, disinformation agent, serving capitalism.

ah well you see <cough> this guy might just be in the details>>>

~S~

 

[francoHFW]

You want to stay with capitalism when it's unsustainable. You're not a socialist, you're a liberal, social democrat. You serve your capitalist masters, or perhaps you're a capitalist yourself. You're here pretending to be a working-class European, when you're actually of the elite ruling, capitalist class. You're a pearl-clutching, disinformation agent, serving capitalism.

The movie Elysium is based on a story set over 100 years from now. We're going to have full automation, in the next thirty to forty years. It's estimated that in the next twenty years, half of all jobs are going to be eliminated by advanced automation. That's a conservative estimate. We had our Great Depression, in the 1930s, with only 23% unemployment. Hello? If we had a Great Depression, with 23% unemployment, imagine what will happen when the unemployment rises to 30%, 40%, and then even higher than that.

We should be transitioning now away from capitalism, in order to avoid the worst depression that we've ever experienced. We're looking at even more inequality, where the wealth is even more concentrated at the top. Social discontent and unrest will ensue as a result of advanced automation and artificial intelligence. We're sounding the alarm, for the working class to smell the coffee and take ownership of the means of production. We need to organize and begin electing true socialists into office, into positions of management, or we're going to end up living in squalor, receiving a "UBI" - Universal Basic Income. Do you want that for you and your loved ones? Living in scarcity on a "UBI" while a tiny privileged elite lives in extreme abundance?

I am a French Socialist (Just about like Socialists in every other European modern country) and France is number one in quality of life tourism food Etcetera Etcetera, I don't know what socialism you are talking about but it is probably like your US Communism, your own theory and you alone. I am 72 years old and your vision of the future will not take place in my lifetime if I live to be 110... Elysium was OK but about 200 years in the future really

 

[Red Front]

ah well you see <cough> this guy might just be in the details>>>

~S~

I know what he's planning.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

How does it ensure poverty and misery? Without socialism, capitalism would crumble. Especially now with the advent of advanced automation and artificial intelligence. Socialism is the clear successor of capitalism. Your grandchildren are going to be socialists, guaranteed.

That’s how it ends. Every single time. Automation creates jobs. It can’t make, or program or repair itself. People have to make that function. It’s a different job than flipping the burger but it has to be done. The invention of cars didn’t eliminate drivers(riders) or veterinarians(mechanics). The jobs just changed. The need didn’t. Same with automation. It creates new jobs.

Socialism can’t keep that going anymore than it could take over farming in Russia and China where millions starved to death. Government run automation will result in no automation and no production and no jobs. That’s how socialism works. Who’s going to fix things? At what price? Who’s going to improve things?

Human life requires work and benefits for that work. Socialist policies can’t replace that.

 

[francoHFW]

I know what he's planning.

There is a reason the devil is red and Karl Marx was wrong about everything.

 

[francoHFW]

That’s how it ends. Every single time. Automation creates jobs. It can’t make, or program or repair itself. People have to make that function. It’s a different job than flipping the burger but it has to be done. The invention of cars didn’t eliminate drivers(riders) or veterinarians(mechanics). The jobs just changed. The need didn’t. Same with automation. It creates new jobs.

Socialism can’t keep that going anymore than it could take over farming in Russia and China where millions starved to death. Government run automation will result in no automation and no production and no jobs. That’s how socialism works. Who’s going to fix things? At what price? Who’s going to improve things?

Human life requires work and benefits for that work. Socialist policies can’t replace that.

Go to Socialist Finland or Sweden or France or Italy or Spain and STHU with your dumb propaganda. China and USSR are communist for crying out loud, Now Russia is a kleptocracy

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Those warlords want markets and money. They're not Marxists. Provide me with evidence that these warlords you're referring to are actual communists. Anyways, it's irrelevant. The fact is that those countries and others like it are dirt poor, and yet they have capitalist economies. So if you want to play this game, where socialist countries have to be perfect or bastions of prosperity and extreme abundance, to prove socialism is a viable mode of production, then we can turn the tables and apply the same arbitrary, bullshit metric to capitalism as well. Be fair and consistent.

View attachment 812532
Haitians fleeing Haiti, a capitalist-run country.​

They have no plan other than stealing other peoples goods. That’s socialism/communism. That’s the entire basis of socialism. Taking from those that produced so you don’t have to.

Haiti is a great example of socialism. Those people are fleeing because only the government can do business and the government will take what you earn for the benefit of themselves and maybe some who didn’t work as hard as you. That boat is full of people who tried but socialism choked them to death.

And they are on that boat to get where? Not another government run country.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

it might have something to do with the United States sanctions against them which made it impossible for them to sell oil DUHHH and of course some covert action from Republicans. Not a fair choice. Like I continue to say, Venezuela decided they wanted to be socialist with fair capitalism and a good safety net and under Hugo Chavez literacy went from 50% to 97% or something and they were doing alright for a little while. Americans thought he was a socialist and that is Communist and too bad for Venezuela. Now one of the biggest countries wanting asylum in the United States. Great job.

They ceased being able to produce any oil. The government took over and production stopped. The government told you how much you could make, produce, ship, ship to who, for how much. That wasn’t our fault. Chavez did that. He took the oil companies away from the people who knew how to run it. But it did work out. The oil business is swimming in socialism where everyone is equal. They’re all poor and produce nothing. The owners are now equal with the workers in their poverty. Socialism worked perfectly.

 

[Red Front]

I am a French Socialist and France is number one in quality of life tourism food Etcetera Etcetera, I don't know what socialism you are talking about but it is probably like your US Communism, your own theory and you alone. I am 72 years old and your vision of the future will not take place in my lifetime if I live to be 110 LOL

You don't care about your children and grandchildren? You're not making any sense, really. Do you think that after we kick the bucket, it's the end? Our children and grandchildren and their children remain here. You're old enough to be my father. I'm 50 years old. Twenty years from now I will be 70 years old, assuming I live that long. What kind of world, do we want to leave our children in? I'm thinking about them. You understand, don't you? Automation is going to replace wage labor, and we need to transition to a non-profit system of production, that employs all of the intelligent robots, automating production as much as possible. Robots don't sleep, they work 24/7. Look at this, this is now:

Automated Cargo Ships: The Next Transport Revolution?

Fully automated warehouse with iFollow and stow robotics

Beyond Driverless Trucks: Building Autonomous EV Systems

Pioneering Mine Automation in South Korea​

I could continue here pasting hundreds of examples, of how automation technology will fully automate every component and task of our supply chain. From the mine and farm to your hand, every stage of production is now, not in ten or twenty years, but now in 2023, could be completely automated. Some of the videos that I just embedded are two and three years. The technology is even more advanced now, than what you saw in those videos.

Capitalists own all of that technology, with the facilities, factories, mines..etc. So the working class (94% of the population), needs to smell the coffee and wake up, or we're all going to end up in the most serious socioeconomic crises in modern history. The so-called "UBI" is like putting a bandaid on a large gaping, bleeding wound. We need to transition to a democratic, non-profit, centrally planned system of production or most people are in trouble.

Soylent Green (1973) Official Trailer - Charlton Heston, Edward G Robinson Movie HD

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ELYSIUM - Official Trailer (HD)

Release Date: 9 August 2013 (United States)In the year 2154, two classes of people exist: the very wealthy, who live on a pristine man-made space station cal...

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​

 

[francoHFW]

You don't care about your children and grandchildren? You're not making any sense, really. Do you think that after we kick the bucket, it's the end? Our children and grandchildren and their children remain here. You're old enough to be my father. I'm 50 years old. Twenty years from now I will be 70 years old, assuming I live that long. What kind of world, do we want to leave our children in? I'm thinking about them. You understand, don't you? Automation is going to replace wage labor, and we need to transition to a non-profit system of production, that employs all of the intelligent robots, automating production as much as possible. Robots don't sleep, they work 24/7. Look at this, this is now:

Automated Cargo Ships: The Next Transport Revolution?

Fully automated warehouse with iFollow and stow robotics

Beyond Driverless Trucks: Building Autonomous EV Systems

Pioneering Mine Automation in South Korea​

I could continue here pasting hundreds of examples, of how automation technology will fully automate every component and task of our supply chain. From the mine and farm to your hand, every stage of production is now, not in ten or twenty years, but now in 2023, could be completely automated. Some of the videos that I just embedded are two and three years. The technology is even more advanced now, than what you saw in those videos.

Capitalists own all of that technology, with the facilities, factories, mines..etc. So the working class (94% of the population), needs to smell the coffee and wake up, or we're all going to end up in the most serious socioeconomic crises in modern history. The so-called "UBI" is like putting a bandaid on a large gaping, bleeding wound. We need to transition to a democratic, non-profit, centrally planned system of production or most people are in trouble.

Soylent Green (1973) Official Trailer - Charlton Heston, Edward G Robinson Movie HD

Subscribe to CLASSIC TRAILERS: http://bit.ly/1u43jDeSubscribe to TRAILERS: http://bit.ly/sxaw6hSubscribe to COMING SOON: http://bit.ly/H2vZUnLike us on FACEB...

www.youtube.com

ELYSIUM - Official Trailer (HD)

Release Date: 9 August 2013 (United States)In the year 2154, two classes of people exist: the very wealthy, who live on a pristine man-made space station cal...

www.youtube.com

​

It is still science fiction that I am not going to argue about, hundred years in the future

 

[Red Front]

They have no plan other than stealing other peoples goods. That’s socialism/communism. That’s the entire basis of socialism. Taking from those that produced so you don’t have to.

Haiti is a great example of socialism. Those people are fleeing because only the government can do business and the government will take what you earn for the benefit of themselves and maybe some who didn’t work as hard as you. That boat is full of people who tried but socialism choked them to death.

And they are on that boat to get where? Not another government run country.

They have no plan other than stealing other peoples goods.

Sounds like capitalism. Capitalist employers steal our labor, by paying us less than what we produce. They call it "surplus value", but it's really a racket.

That’s socialism/communism.

That's you exposing your ignorance about socialism/communism.

That’s the entire basis of socialism.

In Missouri Mike's mind, yes. That's the only place where that's the "basis of socialism".

Taking from those that produced so you don’t have to.

Sounds exactly like capitalism. A tiny wealthy privileged elite living off of the labor of others like parasites.


Haiti is a great example of socialism. Those people are fleeing because only the government can do business and the government will take what you earn for the benefit of themselves and maybe some who didn’t work as hard as you.

In Haiti there are plenty of privately owned businesses, so you don't know what you're talking about. Haiti is a capitalist-run failed state.

That boat is full of people who tried but socialism choked them to death.

That's the case only in Missouri Mike's active imagination.

And they are on that boat to get where? Not another government-run country.

I never said all capitalist countries are poor. You're now creating what is called a "straw man argument". Those Haitians are trying to enter the capitalist empire, the "big kahuna"/USA, that will be in its own serious crisis in a few years due to advanced automation, taking tens of millions of jobs. The tech apocalypse is coming.

 

[Red Front]

It is still science fiction that I am not going to argue about, hundred years in the future

You're in the bad habit of completely ignoring everything I say to you.