What is the GOP doing?

[Marener]

Does that large staff have top secret clearance and sciff access? Or are you suggesting that Biden had top secret documents laying around and his staff just grabbed them and stuffed them into boxes as they were packing his things.

Yes, the large staff of the Vice president has top secret clearance.

Trump had top secret documents laying around. Documents getting swept up in folders and binders and boxes doesn’t seem unreasonable.

 

[Marener]

So, mishandling top secret documents amounts to. “Oops, my bad”? Is that what we are saying?

Sometimes. Depends on the facts and circumstances.

 

[Marener]

The Supreme Court also said it.

Irrelevant. The president’s ability to classify and declassify isn’t relevant to the point being made.

Your claim is (roughly) that the government would never misplace classified documents. That’s clearly not true because Trump hauled off hundreds of them unbeknownst to the government. If the president declassified them, he never told the government and so the government would and is still treating them classified. So this is irrelevant.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Irrelevant. The president’s ability to classify and declassify isn’t relevant to the point being made.

Your claim is (roughly) that the government would never misplace classified documents. That’s clearly not true because Trump hauled off hundreds of them unbeknownst to the government. If the president declassified them, he never told the government and so the government would and is still treating them classified. So this is irrelevant.

Of course it's relevant because the court ruled that the President has the power to classify and declassify at will. "The government" is not in charge of classified documents, only the President is. As the article points out congressional authority has no say in this matter. It's all the presidents call.

 

[Billiejeens]

Before Trump even took office in 2016, the DNC already had plans to impeach him once they took the House, which they did.

Now that the GOP has taken the House, why is the GOP not impeaching Biden? They have plenty with the Hunter lap top.

What's up with this?

This is how politics is done now, is it not, or is it just for the GOP?

Hell, DeSantis is not even running for President yet and they are already suing him.

The Democrats don't have any other strategy that will work for them.

 

[Billiejeens]

Democrats impeached Trump since day one and dragged his name through the mud

Then they won in 2020.

If the GOP wants to win, this is the formula for success.

The baselessness of the Russian collusion conspiracy shows you don't even need valid evidence to proceed.

Unvetted, unverifiable mail in ballots won the 2020 election.

Nothing else.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Yes, the large staff of the Vice president has top secret clearance.

Trump had top secret documents laying around. Documents getting swept up in folders and binders and boxes doesn’t seem unreasonable.

I’m not sure the presidents staffers…those people who would be charged with packing his office, would be qualified to have security clearances….even if they did, it still wouldn’t excuse those documents laying around in such a fashion that nobody knew they were among the documents being packed up.

 

[Marener]

Of course it's relevant because the court ruled that the President has the power to classify and declassify at will. "The government" is not in charge of classified documents, only the President is. As the article points out congressional authority has no say in this matter. It's all the presidents call.

If the government isn’t in charge of classified documents, who keeps track of where they are and who has them? You said they were all numbered and everything? Who do you think does that?

 

[ThisIsMe]

Sometimes. Depends on the facts and circumstances.

Really, then our system of keeping track of secure documents is really lackluster….If we’re going to be so casual about how Biden handled his documents, then why all the fuss that trump took them?

 

[Marener]

I’m not sure the presidents staffers…those people who would be charged with packing his office, would be qualified to have security clearances….even if they did, it still wouldn’t excuse those documents laying around in such a fashion that nobody knew they were among the documents being packed up.

Given the large quantity of classified material in the government, its hardly surprising that some material gets lost. Hell, even Pence found a classified document.

 

[ThisIsMe]

If the government isn’t in charge of classified documents, who keeps track of where they are and who has them? You said they were all numbered and everything? Who do you think does that?

Apparently nobody, because Biden had documents going back to his days in the senate, and nobody knew about it…..or they just didn’t care, until trump did it.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Given the large quantity of classified material in the government, its hardly surprising that some material gets lost. Hell, even Pence found a classified document.

Some of the items found were TS SCI….those documents don’t just “get lost”….

 

[Marener]

Really, then our system of keeping track of secure documents is really lackluster….If we’re going to be so casual about how Biden handled his documents, then why all the fuss that trump took them?

Yes, the system probably is lackluster.

There are numerous relevant and important distinctions that make Trump’s situation different.

One, the quantity. Trump had ten times the number of documents.

Two, some evidence suggests that Trump intentionally took classified documents.

Three, and perhaps most importantly, Trump didn’t give them back.

 

[Billiejeens]

I’m not sure the presidents staffers…those people who would be charged with packing his office, would be qualified to have security clearances….even if they did, it still wouldn’t excuse those documents laying around in such a fashion that nobody knew they were among the documents being packed up.

Marener lives in a entirely different reality.

 

[Marener]

Apparently nobody, because Biden had documents going back to his days in the senate, and nobody knew about it…..or they just didn’t care, until trump did it.

We are talking about a tiny number of documents compared to the overall number of materials he handled in those years. No system is perfect.

 

[Marener]

Some of the items found were TS SCI….those documents don’t just “get lost”….

Dunno. The handling of documents with presidents and vice presidents seems to be pretty different than for the rest of people in government.

Trump managed to take a bunch without being noticed. How did he do it?

 

[ThisIsMe]

Yes, the system probably is lackluster.

There are numerous relevant and important distinctions that make Trump’s situation different.

One, the quantity. Trump had ten times the number of documents.

Two, some evidence suggests that Trump intentionally took classified documents.

Three, and perhaps most importantly, Trump didn’t give them back.

One, the quantity. Trump had ten times the number of documents.

I’m not sure why this matters. If you take 20 documents or 10,000, it’s still an issue. Also, I think the reporting on that was intentionally misleading. They said trump had “thousands of documents” and “Biden only had very few documents”. I think there is some word play going on there. When they said trump had thousands of documents, they were referring to individual pages of paper, but when they said Biden only had a few documents, they were referring to whole pamphlets or books, or folders meaning, if Biden had “30 documents” but each of those documents (folders) contained 200 pages, then Biden would have had just as many “documents”.

Two, some evidence suggests that Trump intentionally took classified documents.

He probably did, because he thought he had the right to declassify. If you think Biden just “accidently” had TS SCI documents show up in his boxes, I’ve got some land to sell you….

Three, and perhaps most importantly, Trump didn’t give them back.

Sure he did, he had given back…25 boxes? Something like that? The raid in mar a lago was a political sham because the fbi was already there and could have taken, or arranged to have the documents taken, but instead they just said “put another lock on the door”.

 

[Invisibleflash]

Before Trump even took office in 2016, the DNC already had plans to impeach him once they took the House, which they did.

Now that the GOP has taken the House, why is the GOP not impeaching Biden? They have plenty with the Hunter lap top.

What's up with this?

This is how politics is done now, is it not, or is it just for the GOP?

Hell, DeSantis is not even running for President yet and they are already suing him.

OP...

+

 

[Marener]

I’m not sure why this matters. If you take 20 documents or 10,000, it’s still an issue. Also, I think the reporting on that was intentionally misleading. They said trump had “thousands of documents” and “Biden only had very few documents”. I think there is some word play going on there. When they said trump had thousands of documents, they were referring to individual pages of paper, but when they said Biden only had a few documents, they were referring to whole pamphlets or books, or folders meaning, if Biden had “30 documents” but each of those documents (folders) contained 200 pages, then Biden would have had just as many “documents”.

The quantity does matter when you want to discuss intent. A few documents can easily be an oversight. The more documents we are dealing with, the harder it is to blame on a simple mistake. Last I checked, Biden had 30 classified documents, Trump had 300. Yes, they can be more pages per document which is equally true for Trump as it is with Biden. NARA said they recovered 100 documents with 700 pages from the first batch of stuff Trump turned over to them. Saying Trump had ten times more material is most likely very close to being accurate, if not a little generous.

He probably did, because he thought he had the right to declassify. If you think Biden just “accidently” had TS SCI documents show up in his boxes, I’ve got some land to sell you….

If you think Trump was actually declassifying TS SCI documents, I've got some land to sell you.

The allegation is that the government would never misplace such highly classified documents, well it did with Trump so I really don't know how far that argument goes.

Sure he did, he had given back…25 boxes? Something like that? The raid in mar a lago was a political sham because the fbi was already there and could have taken, or arranged to have the documents taken, but instead they just said “put another lock on the door”.

You are just repeating lies that the right wing media has perpetuated.

Trump was supposed to give everything back, he didn't. The FBI was there to take possession of documents which Trump was legally required to give back to them because they had a subpoena. Trump's lawyers gave the FBI the documents and signed a statement stating they'd searched everywhere and that they were turning over everything with classified markings on it. The FBI could not have just taken whatever they want and Trump's lawyers would not let them look through the boxes they left in the storage closet.

 

[ThisIsMe]

We are talking about a tiny number of documents compared to the overall number of materials he handled in those years. No system is perfect.

Hmm, but how do you know that?

Look at this as an example:

A side-by-side look at the Trump, Biden classified documents

The revelation that potentially classified materials were discovered at think tank offices formerly used by President Joe Biden has prompted questions on how the circumstance compares to the seizure last year of hundreds of classified documents at former President Donald Trump's residence.

apnews.com

Notice the difference in reporting? For Biden its: “It’s unclear precisely how many classified materials have been obtained from Biden’s office and home. Richard Sauber, special counsel to the president, said Monday that “a small number of documents with classified markings” were discovered on Nov. 2, 2022,”

It’s unclear, a small number of “classified documents”, no mention of what classification they were.

And then: “On Thursday, Sauber said a second batch of documents with classified markings — a “small number,” he said — had been found in a storage space in Biden’s garage near Wilmington, Delaware, with one document being located in Biden’s personal library in his home.”

Again, “a small number” no mention of the classification level either.

And then: On Saturday, Sauber said that a total of six pages of classified documents were found earlier in the week during a search at Biden’s homeand were handed over to Justice Department officials.”

Oh, now they say, six documents were discovered!

Now for trump?

“
Roughly 300 documents with classification markings — including some at the top secret level — have been recovered from Trump since he left office in January 2021. “

300 documents discovered! Some with top secret markings!

“National Archives and Records Administration retrieved 15 boxes of documents, telling Justice Department officials they contained “a lot” of classified material.”

15 boxes discovered! “A lot” worn classified material!


“FBI agents took about 33 boxes and containers of 11,000 documents from Mar-a-Lago, including roughly 100 with classification markings found in a storage room and an office.”

33 boxes!! 11,000 documents!! 100 with classification markings!!

Sure didn’t take them long to get very specific when it came to trump, but for Biden it was “unclear” and “small number”, they just remained very vague about it when it came to Biden.


And then when the documents were discovered?

“After the materials were discovered at the think tank, Biden’s personal attorneys immediately alerted the White House counsel’s office, which notified NARA, which took custody of the documents the next day, Sauber said”

“immediately notified the White House counsel office!

For trump?

“A Trump representative told NARA in December 2021 that presidential records had been found at Mar-a-Lago, nearly a year after Trump left office.”

Nearly a year after trump left office! Odd, no mention that Biden found his records after having them for over a decade….

We probably don’t know how many documents Biden actually had because 1) the differences in how the stories were reported and 2) bidens personal attorneys were able to conduct the search for the documents themselves, and 3) NARA only seemed to be concerned about the documents trump had, but not interested in the ones Biden had.