What is your background/interest in the Middle East?

[Saigon]

My interest are historical sociology, as far as the Jews and Arabs, they have been at each others throats for years. War is nothing new there and will continue even if the Jews were not there. the jews give the Arabs a focus on their plight and how they want to free themselves of foreign control.

There is an element of truth in that. I certainly agree that wars would continue in the ME even if Israel disappeared but at the same time - this does not justify the Israeli occupation of the West Bank.

spoils of war.

Yeah, well Hitler might have said the same about France, and Stalin about East Germany - that doesn't make it right.

 

[Hossfly]

I'll start with the introduction to a thread I started on 5/11(yesterday) and then, at my own speed, add my background/interest in the ME. I would advise those who have not done so to please read the novel "Exodus" by Leon Uris (1958.) This is the very book that started my interest for Israel and the ME in June 1958 during a stop on my way to Germany at Wheelus AFB in Tripoli, Libya.

This is the thread started 5/11.

A Short History: Israel Vs Islam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When the Creator introduced Israel to the world, it was as if a master gardener had planted a beautiful, immaculate lawn of fescue to complement the flora and fauna of nature. All would have gone well, but around the year 610, Satan walked by and in his envy and jealousy, planted a stalk of dock in the yard.
Fast forward to 2012 and we find the dock has almost completely choked off the fescue. But,hark, the Master Gardener has in his catalogue of plans, a recently discovered weed killer: the Zionist!
So there we have it and this is where it stands. And all lived happily everafter.
__________________

 

[Saigon]

JStone -

Please answer the question, or get off the thread.

 

[Saigon]

I'll start with the introduction to a thread I started on 5/11(yesterday) and then, at my own speed, add my background/interest in the ME.

PLEASE do not post 200 comments here, Hossfly.

You are more than welcome to post your connection with the ME, but everyone has managed to do that in a single post, and I dare say you can too.

Particularly not with 'Exodus' as your opening gambit.

 

[Lipush]

while "brother" Assad killing "brothers" in Syria, and we have yet to see your Ummah doing nothing more then scold him

I don't agree with that - the Arab Union have been quite vocal in their condemnation of the violence in Syria. Surprisingly so, IMHO.

It's also notable that what Arabic posters might say to each other on an Arabic forum, they may not always say here.

Were western countries now still caught up in Iraq and Afghanistant there might be a case for regime with Arabic support, but Syria is an almost impregnable target: vast distances, terrible terrain for an invading army, and large cities well suited for guerilla warfare.

I couldn't expect anyone to send troops into Syria.

With all due respect, we have seen how millions of people are being killed in Africa by regimes when nobody says nothing. Arabs and Israelis go through hell everyday without anyone caring. nearly 12,000 people were killed in Syria so far, and while they did made their voices heard, which is fine, that's all that there is.

This is no Europe 38, it's WORLD 2012.

For the sake of debate, the Arabs are not to be blaimed for this alone. We have seen that nobody really learns from history, except that we learn NOTHING from it

 

[Lipush]

I mean the Middle East. All the Ummah thing? Totally not an Islamic gig, because with all due respect, you might say you're all one and gathered and that, but so far it's only on paper, while "brother" Assad killing "brothers" in Syria, and we have yet to see your Ummah doing nothing more then scold him

Assad is Not a muslim; he is an Alawite.

Every mosque in my local area is taking up collections and sending money to help the Syrian people with food and medical supplies.

That is considered humanitarian aid under U.S. law and is legal to do so.

It is up to each individual muslim to decide how to help the people there.

Ok fair enough, but single action, while is respected, sometimes is not enough as group action.

 

[Saigon]

JStone -

Please do not spam the thread in an attempt to close down the discussion.

Please answer the question asked earlier - what is your personal experience of the Middle East, and/or, what Middle Eastern countries have you lived in?

Eveyrone else on this thread has posted about their own experience - you alone seem to lack the ability to post honestly and with respect for your fellow posters.

 

[JStone]

My nephew married a girl from Palestine she is awesome ,,he was teaching English there..she speaks four languages and they now teach together in the United Arab Emirates..they have the sweetest little girl ever, my grand niece.. a wee Scottish /palestinian lass

You, your nephew and his muslima should try opening a quran since the Roman invention of palestine to call Israel does not appear in the quran.

Israel, the correct name of the land, appears numerous times in the quran.

In fact, the entire surah 17 is entitled Bani Israel [Children of Israel]

Quran 10:93: We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them.

 

[Saigon]

With all due respect, we have seen how millions of people are being killed in Africa by regimes when nobody says nothing. Arabs and Israelis go through hell everyday without anyone caring. nearly 12,000 people were killed in Syria so far, and while they did made their voices heard, which is fine, that's all that there is.

I couldn't agree more!

I was in DR Congo last year - 3.8 million people died in what Africans call The African World War, involving nine national armies. It is the largest armed conflict since WWII.

Globally, it has received only 15% of the coverage of Darfur and (surprise, surprise) I coudln't even sell my story.

No one cares.

But on the plus side, I did get to visit one of the world's great places, and met amazing people.

 

[Moonglow]

There is an element of truth in that. I certainly agree that wars would continue in the ME even if Israel disappeared but at the same time - this does not justify the Israeli occupation of the West Bank.

spoils of war.

Yeah, well Hitler might have said the same about France, and Stalin about East Germany - that doesn't make it right.

Monroe or many presidents said about the Natives , many other peoples have done it tgroygh the centuries, shall all land taken over the alst 3000 years be returned?

 

[Sunni Man]

Ok fair enough, but single action, while is respected, sometimes is not enough as group action.

It has been reported on the news that Mujahideen are slowly making their way into Syria.

Hopefully, with their previous experience, they will be able to turn the tide and defeat Assad and his Alawite minions.

 

[JStone]

Ok fair enough, but single action, while is respected, sometimes is not enough as group action.

It has been reported on the news that Mujahideen are slowly making their way into Syria.

Hopefully, with their previous experience, they will be able to turn the tide and defeat Assad and his Alawite minions.

muslimes are peace-loving, right?

Iran Iraq War, 1 million dead
Lebanese Civil War, 250,000 dead
Algerian Civl War: 300,000 dead
Bangladesh Civil War: 500,000 dead
Black Sept., Jordan's King Hussein murders, expells 80,000 Palestinians
Syrian army kills 20,000 Syrians at Hama
Iraq gases hundreds of thousands of Kurds
1400 year conflict between Sunnis and Shiites
Fratricide between Hamas and Fatah
Syria/Hizballah assassinate Lebanese PM Rafik Hariri

Alexis de Toqueville...

I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.

 

[docmauser1]

I watched a documentary on Palestine about ten years ago. It was the most disturbing thing I have seen. I couldn't sleep that night. Until that time I never knew about the conflict. Since then I have read everything I could find.

Conclusion - palistanian agitprop garbage is addictive for unsofisticated minds.

 

[docmauser1]

You are as filled with hatred as any Muslim I have ever met,

Ah, the "religion of peace".

 

[Lipush]

Ok fair enough, but single action, while is respected, sometimes is not enough as group action.

It has been reported on the news that Mujahideen are slowly making their way into Syria.

Hopefully, with their previous experience, they will be able to turn the tide and defeat Assad and his Alawite minions.

And then The Alawite people will be slaughtered by the Syrian people in an umpulse of wrath.

The Mujahideen? What good do more suicide bombers make?

 

[JStone]

You are as filled with hatred as any Muslim I have ever met,

Ah, the "religion of peace".

When muslimes aren't killing infidels, they're killing each other

Iran Iraq War, 1 million dead
Lebanese Civil War, 250,000 dead
Algerian Civl War: 300,000 dead
Bangladesh Civil War: 500,000 dead
Black Sept., Jordan's King Hussein murders, expells 80,000 Palestinians
Syrian army kills 20,000 Syrians at Hama
Iraq gases hundreds of thousands of Kurds
1400 year conflict between Sunnis and Shiites
Fratricide between Hamas and Fatah
Syria/Hizballah assassinate Lebanese PM Rafik Hariri

 

[Lipush]

With all due respect, we have seen how millions of people are being killed in Africa by regimes when nobody says nothing. Arabs and Israelis go through hell everyday without anyone caring. nearly 12,000 people were killed in Syria so far, and while they did made their voices heard, which is fine, that's all that there is.

I couldn't agree more!

I was in DR Congo last year - 3.8 million people died in what Africans call The African World War, involving nine national armies. It is the largest armed conflict since WWII.

Globally, it has received only 15% of the coverage of Darfur and (surprise, surprise) I coudln't even sell my story.

No one cares.

But on the plus side, I did get to visit one of the world's great places, and met amazing people.

Honestly speaking, I simply asked that question because while many people died, I care mostly for the Syrian children. Because children are children.

Most Israelis don't care about Syria though, because as the saying goes, "don't put your healthy body in a sick bed". I don't get how with seeing how many children already died there, people keep quiet. And I don't even talk about the Syrian soldiers that are capable of slaying the children of their own people. WHO DOES THAT?

If they're capable of killing their own kids, I don't want to even think what they would have done to Jewish children if given the chance.

 

[Jos]

I think Israel has quite clearly shown how an invading army should treat civilians, during cast lead Why should you expect to be treated any differently?

 

[docmauser1]

Before I went to Africa I just thought of starving children and HIV and malnutrition and the animal life, and of course those things are there too, but there really is so much more that we NEVER see on TV.

Typical. We rescued a klingon ship, stranded on the dark side of the Moon, and didn't make any TV either.

 

[JStone]

I think Israel has quite clearly shown how an invading army should treat civilians, during cast lead Why should you expect to be treated any differently?

Colonel Richard Kemp was appointed Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE), Military Division, on 25 April 1994 in recognition of his intelligence work in Northern Ireland in 1993, and was awarded the Queen's Commendation for Bravery for service as a commander in the United Nations Protection Force in Bosnia in 1994 He was promoted Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE), Military Division, in the New Year Honours 2006

Colonel Richard Kemp...

I am the former commander of the British forces in Afghanistan. I served with NATO and the United Nations; commanded troops in Northern Ireland, Bosnia and Macedonia; and participated in the Gulf War. I spent considerable time in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, and worked on international terrorism for the UK Government’s Joint Intelligence Committee.

Mr. President, based on my knowledge and experience, I can say this: During Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.

Israel did so while facing an enemy that deliberately positioned its military capability behind the human shield of the civilian population.
Hamas, like Hizballah, are expert at driving the media agenda. Both will always have people ready to give interviews condemning Israeli forces for war crimes. They are adept at staging and distorting incidents.

The IDF faces a challenge that we British do not have to face to the same extent. It is the automatic, Pavlovian presumption by many in the international media, and international human rights groups, that the IDF are in the wrong, that they are abusing human rights.

The truth is that the IDF took extraordinary measures to give Gaza civilians notice of targeted areas, dropping over 2 million leaflets, and making over 100,000 phone calls. Many missions that could have taken out Hamas military capability were aborted to prevent civilian casualties. During the conflict, the IDF allowed huge amounts of humanitarian aid into Gaza. To deliver aid virtually into your enemy's hands is, to the military tactician, normally quite unthinkable. But the IDF took on those risks.

Despite all of this, of course innocent civilians were killed. War is chaos and full of mistakes. There have been mistakes by the British, American and other forces in Afghanistan and in Iraq, many of which can be put down to human error. But mistakes are not war crimes.

More than anything, the civilian casualties were a consequence of Hamas’ way of fighting. Hamas deliberately tried to sacrifice their own civilians.

Mr. President, Israel had no choice apart from defending its people, to stop Hamas from attacking them with rockets

And I say this again: the IDF did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo]Goldstone Gaza Report: Col. Richard Kemp Testifies at U.N. Emergency Session - YouTube[/ame]