What Non-Christians Want Christians To Hear

[jillian]

Very interesting, I find. And it is sad and in some ways true. I am glad you cited this. A number of perspectives could be brought out here.

For starters though, I think it only fair for the author or for non-Christians to understand there are some very different beliefs as to how we treat our neighbor within the various Christian creeds and missions. You can start with Catholicism vs. all the rest, and then of course you can divide “all the rest” into about 10 main different beliefs or approaches, and you can divide the Catholic segment into at least three different ways. The point there is that some of these approaches may be representing Jesus Christ far more or far better than the others. And the ones on the internet or in the news are overstated and maybe the most judgmental. So which ones are the non-Christians who are listening to the media and the internet going to conclude about “your average Christian?” They are going to conclude we are mostly aggressive, arrogant and judgmental.

And they would be right. Preaching Christians are in many cases doing God a disservice. And even worse than the wrong attitude is the wrong theology! By and large the Protestant faiths got it wrong on what it takes to be “saved” and who is saved and who is not. First of all, none of those three questions can be answered, so do not pretend to know! That is judging. Also sometimes referred to as the sin of presumption. Quickly; you may get into heaven based on believing alone but you may also spend a thousand years in purgatory first being purified. And another may make it to heaven based on their charity to their fellow man, but they too may spend an “eternity” in purgatory learning about God and how they ignored him, even laughed at those who tended to Him, because they violated the first of the two great commandments, Love thy God with all thy heart, mind and strength --- but did well with the second to love thy neighbor as thyself.

So there it is. It’s too bad we Christians are sinfully ego-driven and either ignorant or naïve. We turn people off. And the Bible speaks to that, making us culpable for the fate of others in some cases.

As to the non-Christians who see no reason to believe. It is incumbent upon them to go further than to just use the weak or pompous voices on the internet as the only source for their searches.

do you assume that if someone doesn't believe in what you believe they are "searching"?

Well sure. Is that controversial?

I am not saying they are on a constant search for this personal God, if He exists or not as Christianity teaches. At a minimum I assume most people are always searching for knowing more about the universe and if what they are doing is the best use of their years.

it's didn't sound controversial. it sounded arrogant. you should probably assume that others' beliefs are as heartfelt as yours and that we think you're just as wrong as you think we are.

hence the o/p.

but as for personal searches? some are, some aren't. i think that's more about spirituality than religion which, unfortunately, aren't always the same thing.

 

[Dr Grump]

Does the religious opinion that it is better to forgive sin and love your neighbor have equal value to the religious opinion that sin must be punished by chopping off your neighbors hands and feet ?


Is it not true that some religious beliefs are completely false and defile and contaminate the mind and have absolutely no positive value at all?

Or equal value of burning somebody at the stake?

I think all religious beliefs are false, including yours.

What you are basically saying is Christianity rocks, Islam sux. No religion is innocent...

 

[vanityofvanitys]

do you assume that if someone doesn't believe in what you believe they are "searching"?

Well sure. Is that controversial?

I am not saying they are on a constant search for this personal God, if He exists or not as Christianity teaches. At a minimum I assume most people are always searching for knowing more about the universe and if what they are doing is the best use of their years.

it's didn't sound controversial. it sounded arrogant. you should probably assume that others' beliefs are as heartfelt as yours and that we think you're just as wrong as you think we are.

hence the o/p.

but as for personal searches? some are, some aren't. i think that's more about spirituality than religion which, unfortunately, aren't always the same thing.

Well just to keep this simple and not expand on all ideas here --- what did I say that sounded arrogant to you? I am not sure?

It had to have been more than just the fact I said (read: assumed) that most all of us are on a constant search for God or for the unknown?

EDIT: Ok, I re-read your answer and now I get the arrogant charge. Well then I can only speak for myself. I not only am not upset when others challenge my beliefs or tell me I am wrong, I welcome it. It becomes an exercise in learning and a trial of sorts. Why should we fear that?

Although you have made it clear that many do resent it. Unless they are being harangued about it, that sounds a little egotistical in some ways on the receiver's part, don't you think? At least to those who claim a good level of learning?

 

[jillian]

Well sure. Is that controversial?

I am not saying they are on a constant search for this personal God, if He exists or not as Christianity teaches. At a minimum I assume most people are always searching for knowing more about the universe and if what they are doing is the best use of their years.

it's didn't sound controversial. it sounded arrogant. you should probably assume that others' beliefs are as heartfelt as yours and that we think you're just as wrong as you think we are.

hence the o/p.

but as for personal searches? some are, some aren't. i think that's more about spirituality than religion which, unfortunately, aren't always the same thing.

Well just to keep this simple and not expand on all ideas here --- what did I say that sounded arrogant to you? I am not sure?

It had to have been more than just the fact I said (read: assumed) that most all of us are on a constant search for God or for the unknown?

no. it was that i thought YOU were assuming that anyone who wasn't a christian was searching.

 

[Dr Grump]

[

no. it was that i thought YOU were assuming that anyone who wasn't a christian was searching.

I'm always searching for the meaning of life. All I know is that it is not in some belief system that cannot be proven

 

[Statistikhengst]

Well sure. Is that controversial?

I am not saying they are on a constant search for this personal God, if He exists or not as Christianity teaches. At a minimum I assume most people are always searching for knowing more about the universe and if what they are doing is the best use of their years.

it's didn't sound controversial. it sounded arrogant. you should probably assume that others' beliefs are as heartfelt as yours and that we think you're just as wrong as you think we are.

hence the o/p.

but as for personal searches? some are, some aren't. i think that's more about spirituality than religion which, unfortunately, aren't always the same thing.

Well just to keep this simple and not expand on all ideas here --- what did I say that sounded arrogant to you? I am not sure?

It had to have been more than just the fact I said (read: assumed) that most all of us are on a constant search for God or for the unknown?

EDIT: Ok, I re-read your answer and now I get the arrogant charge. Well then I can only speak for myself. I not only am not upset when others challenge my beliefs or tell me I am wrong, I welcome it. It becomes an exercise in learning and a trial of sorts. Why should we fear that?

Although you have made it clear that many do resent it. Unless they are being harangued about it, tat sounds a little egotistical in some ways on the receiver's part, don't you think?

The point I think jillian was trying to make was: we Jews HAVE ALREADY found G-d.

 

[vanityofvanitys]

no. it was that i thought YOU were assuming that anyone who wasn't a christian was searching.

Well I just edited my last post to you and I think you made a larger point than "just that" and I gave you credit for it to some extent.

Be that as it may, I am very glad you posted this article. I think it is very important and an indictment on many of us Christians.

Benedict XVI is my hero, no doubt, but what this new pope is doing is probably far greater in some ways. What Francis is doing is obvious. He is not preaching to the world, he is preaching to the Church. We are the target because we are the problem he is saying. He could not be more spot on! Until we take care of ourselves we can forget changing others. This pope is a gift.

 

[jillian]

The point I think jillian was trying to make was: we Jews HAVE ALREADY found G-d.

^^^^

that

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

[

no. it was that i thought YOU were assuming that anyone who wasn't a christian was searching.

I'm always searching for the meaning of life. All I know is that it is not in some belief system that cannot be proven

The problem is many persons of faith believe their religious doctrine and dogma is the ‘answer,’ when in fact it is not. And that those who have not found this ‘answer’ are somehow ‘lost’ and ‘searching,’ which is clearly not the case.

 

[Statistikhengst]

no. it was that i thought YOU were assuming that anyone who wasn't a christian was searching.

Well I just edited my last post to you and I think you made a larger point than "just that" and I gave you credit for it to some extent.

Be that as it may, I am very glad you posted this article. I think it is very important and an indictment on many of us Christians.

Benedict XVI is my hero, no doubt, but what this new pope is doing is probably far greater in some ways. What Francis is doing is obvious. He is not preaching to the world, he is preaching to the Church. We are the target because we are the problem he is saying. He could not be more spot on! Until we take care of ourselves we can forget changing others. This pope is a gift.

I like that idea, and I like this new pope, alot.

 

[jillian]

no. it was that i thought YOU were assuming that anyone who wasn't a christian was searching.

Well I just edited my last post to you and I think you made a larger point than "just that" and I gave you credit for it to some extent.

Be that as it may, I am very glad you posted this article. I think it is very important and an indictment on many of us Christians.

Benedict XVI is my hero, no doubt, but what this new pope is doing is probably far greater in some ways. What Francis is doing is obvious. He is not preaching to the world, he is preaching to the Church. We are the target because we are the problem he is saying. He could not be more spot on! Until we take care of ourselves we can forget changing others. This pope is a gift.

your new pope seems to be a great man.

but i don't see him saying catholics are a "target". i think he is saying that if you spend all your time focusing on things jesus didn't care about (e.g., birth control or homosexuality) then you're missing the point.

from an outsider's perspective, benedict was horrible and reversed much of what john paul II did.

 

[strollingbones]

i do not understand why not wanting to hear about some one's religion is offensive to anyone....

jillian and i are friends.....she never attempts to convert me to her ways nor do i try to convert her to my ways...we simply respect each other and it is that simple....

i love the rejection of certain bible verses and the acceptance of others....


and i think the jews had the greatest pr machine in the world....the bible...i assure you if i wrote a religious book...i would make my religion the star.....and that is what the jews did.....

 

[jillian]

i do not understand why not wanting to hear about some one's religion is offensive to anyone....

jillian and i are friends.....she never attempts to convert me to her ways nor do i try to convert her to my ways...we simply respect each other and it is that simple....

i love the rejection of certain bible verses and the acceptance of others....


and i think the jews had the greatest pr machine in the world....the bible...i assure you if i wrote a religious book...i would make my religion the star.....and that is what the jews did.....

i think every group thinks they're "IT".

but you'll never hear a jew say someone else is going to hell for not believing.

i agree though… that the point of the o/p was what we do… which is have respect for each other.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Those of us free from faith have always appreciated that aspect of Judaism, the propensity to not seek to proselytize, something most Christians need to learn to do.

 

[strollingbones]

ie....jesus says he came only for the jews....that is ignored by christians....and remember this comes after jesus has been in the his conversation with god for 40 days and 40 nights....

and what i love.....the blessed are the jews and those who support them.....that one verse...is just so great ...filled with the essence of 'take that bitch' to all other religions...either support us or not but choice the side of the lord etc....great pr that one....

let's go back to cain and abel....here poor cain is working his ass off....growing stuff...while abel is watching sheep fuck....but your god favors abel over cain...why....o could it be cause the jews were nomadic sheep herders....

well now my ranting husband is going on about jesus only selects jews as disciples......o i should not have gotten him started....

 

[strollingbones]

good point jillian about all religions thinking they are 'it'

 

[strollingbones]

ahhh correct me if i am wrong....jews dont believe in hell do they?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

i do not understand why not wanting to hear about some one's religion is offensive to anyone....

jillian and i are friends.....she never attempts to convert me to her ways nor do i try to convert her to my ways...we simply respect each other and it is that simple....

i love the rejection of certain bible verses and the acceptance of others....


and i think the jews had the greatest pr machine in the world....the bible...i assure you if i wrote a religious book...i would make my religion the star.....and that is what the jews did.....

It’s not, if one solicits that information voluntarily.

When not solicited voluntarily, that can be a problem.

With regard to Christianity, for example, it’s highly unlikely one born and raised in the United States is not familiar with Christian dogma.

And for those who are very familiar with the dogma, and have rejected it, hearing about it yet again from yet another Christian is pointless and unwarranted.

What’s offensive is to be told by Christians that one is ‘lost,’ or his faith – or lack thereof – is somehow ‘deficient,’ the arrogance of many Christians is offensive, as is the lack of respect for those who are not Christian.

 

[Stephanie]

Are NON-Christians and then add LIBERAL with it some of the most INTOLERANT people you've ever come across?

Like Christians are holding a gun to their heads "forcing" their religious beliefs on them

But, it's ok for them (non Christians) to impose themselves on everyone who doesn't agree with them and call them names like, morons, bigots, homophobe, racist, denier, etc

 

[Delta4Embassy]

What's always seemed most illogical about Christians (as a Jew) is how they elevate and deified a Jew. What good is another's religious figure (in the form of the Messiah) if you're not even of that faith? Be like me as a Jew reverieing or venerating Buddha or Mohammed. I might admire them as individuals and for what they did, but incorporating them into Judaism doesn't make any sense.