What Non-Christians Want Christians To Hear

[jillian]

No, that's not what I am saying.

What I am saying is that even in the world of opinions and the freedom of religious expression it doesn't take a genius to notice that some professed beliefs qualify as fruit that is pleasing to the eye and good to eat while other fruit is poisonous and defiles and contaminates the mind.

but that isn't the point of this thread, is it?

and if it were, who decides what beliefs are "poisonous"? you?

Who decides? people who have eyes that see.

How many thousands of years should observant Jews follow a literal interpretation of divine law and suffer all of the maledictions promised by Moses for setting aside the way he taught to follow the law before someone wakes up from the sleep of death and realizes there has to be a better way than the traditional literal interpretation and application??

How long do you have to talk with GISM before you realize that someone deliberately and criminally fucked up his mind for a price?

it doesn't work that way… no one has a lock on truth.

Whether I agree with you or not about him….

I simply think it is a shame that someone so young is so lost

 

[Gracie]

Awesome thread! Seriously.

 

[jillian]

[

no. it was that i thought YOU were assuming that anyone who wasn't a christian was searching.

I'm always searching for the meaning of life. All I know is that it is not in some belief system that cannot be proven

i believe we all search for meaning. it was the certitude that the meaning is in christianity to which i objected.

because i am quite certain it is not in that belief system.

 

[hobelim]

but that isn't the point of this thread, is it?

and if it were, who decides what beliefs are "poisonous"? you?

Who decides? people who have eyes that see.

How many thousands of years should observant Jews follow a literal interpretation of divine law and suffer all of the maledictions promised by Moses for setting aside the way he taught to follow the law before someone wakes up from the sleep of death and realizes there has to be a better way than the traditional literal interpretation and application??

How long do you have to talk with GISM before you realize that someone deliberately and criminally fucked up his mind for a price?

Can you define "Literal Interpretation"? Isn't that statement an oxymoron?

OK and, No, You already know that words can have a literal definition and one or more figurative meanings.

When Jesus told Peter, "if you love me, feed my sheep." he meant something specific. If what he said is to be interpreted literally then shouldn't peter have become a shepherd? If Christians fed and cared for farm animals for thousands of years maybe after people started walking around like gibbering idiots dying for lack of knowledge some genius might begin to wonder if Jesus wasn't being literal and may have meant something else not directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used?


If Jesus did mean something else aside from literally feeding sheep then wasn't all the efforts to care for animals wasted effort and weren't all the claims of being righteous and all the threats of divine retribution against those who refused to feed farm animals in the name of the Lord wasted effort, false claims, false accusations and empty threats?

In the same way it is already well known in Judaism that God spoke to the people through the prophets in figurative and allegorical language not directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used.

Why on earth would the same God speak in any other way when giving the law through Moses, a prophet??

 

[hobelim]

I believe that what you are getting at, Hobelim, is its wrong for one to use religion to teach their children it is justifiable to murder people, harm others in the name of their faith or in the name of G-d. It is a criminal thing to do to a child and denigrates the truth - that all life is precious and valuable. No religion should have the power or authority to kill others in Gods name.

When a religion gets so powerful that it has the ability to bring me before its courts - whether that was the time of the Inquisition or the time of the Crusades or the courts of Sharia law today - when religion becomes the weapon wielded for control? It is pure evil. Any church that claims to be THE CHURCH - the "one true faith" - should be a major warning sign that church has evil ambitions and is steeped in politics it has no business in.

yes Jeri, all of that and more. If the church teaches a child that human sexuality is sinful and an evil inclination, except in marriage between a man and a woman, then when that child matures and begins to have a sexual awakening, feelings, arousal etc, and they are not married and do not fit into the traditional format a conflict is bound to arise and the maturing child might as a response begin to hate as evil and deny that God given part of being human within themselves, repress those feelings only for them to come out in perverse ways, or pretend to not have them at all deliberately turning themselves into a completely false and duplicitous person.

My suggestion is that is not the way that leads to eternal life but a way that can only lead to destruction.


I see it as a logical conclusion that if the veracity or edifying benefit of any unsubstantiated religious assertion cannot be established or if its harm can be established then such beliefs should be restricted learning available only to adults who make a conscious decision to risk losing their sanity.

 

[hobelim]

but that isn't the point of this thread, is it?

and if it were, who decides what beliefs are "poisonous"? you?

Who decides? people who have eyes that see.

How many thousands of years should observant Jews follow a literal interpretation of divine law and suffer all of the maledictions promised by Moses for setting aside the way he taught to follow the law before someone wakes up from the sleep of death and realizes there has to be a better way than the traditional literal interpretation and application??

How long do you have to talk with GISM before you realize that someone deliberately and criminally fucked up his mind for a price?

it doesn't work that way… no one has a lock on truth.

Whether I agree with you or not about him….

I simply think it is a shame that someone so young is so lost

It would be extremely depressing to think it was not possible for anyone to have a lock on the truth. In the waters of contention the truth is brought out.

Yes, it is a shame that someone so old and so lost would appear to be so young and so lost and extremely scary to know that he can vote.

 

[Gracie]

ie....jesus says he came only for the jews....that is ignored by christians....and remember this comes after jesus has been in the his conversation with god for 40 days and 40 nights....

and what i love.....the blessed are the jews and those who support them.....that one verse...is just so great ...filled with the essence of 'take that bitch' to all other religions...either support us or not but choice the side of the lord etc....great pr that one....

let's go back to cain and abel....here poor cain is working his ass off....growing stuff...while abel is watching sheep fuck....but your god favors abel over cain...why....o could it be cause the jews were nomadic sheep herders....

well now my ranting husband is going on about jesus only selects jews as disciples......o i should not have gotten him started....

This has ALWAYS bugged me. Cain just isn't good enough, no matter what he did. Favoritism of God. And the Job thing. A bet with the devil Job would stay true so this guy has to suffer all kinds of horrible stuff. This.....thing about Jews being the "chosen ones", etc etc etc.

Which is why I don't believe in the bible. Some, yes. Things Jesus said in the NT. OT? Not so much. The God I believe in is above petty favoritism, doesn't make bets to see how much torment a guy can take and in general has the same human fallacy of humans. The bible was written BY imperfect man FOR imperfect man. And there was only ONE perfect "man" ever on this earth. Jesus.

So those who carry that book like a sword...don't wave it in my face. It pisses me off and makes me run the other way after I bonk you with it in retaliation. And is that what Jesus wanted? To drive people AWAY?
Which is what the author of this book was trying to fnd out. What Non Christians thought of "Christians" and their neverending thumping.

I have never experienced a Jew trying to convert someone. nor a wiccan. nor a buddhist. The only ones I have seen bickering is muslims and christians on what "the word" is supposed to mean.

Bah. No thanks.

Something to think about.

 

[Gracie]

PERFECT example. PERFECT.

THIS is what that article is about. EXACTLY.

Son of God - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I think what Chuck is saying, Jillian, is that the OP is negative and is asking others to join you in smearing Christians. If reading about the Gospel of Jesus Christ is an imposition to you don't click on the thread. There are plenty of forums on USMB. As to Christians who share the gospel.........

That is what Christians are commanded to do by Jesus Christ. Preach the Gospel.

* My fav. maxim on this board? Accentuate the positive!!

and where does this jesus say to pray?

pray not for the glory of man etc and so forth...why do you ignore that.....and no one is christian bashing......it is simply the view from another side.....and seems many simply cannot handle that

There is a difference between praying which can be done in a closet and evangelizing which obviously cannot. Christians believe the Bible to be the word of God and there is a Biblical basis for Christian proselytizing. Verses such as the following direct Christians to spread the Word:

“Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul” (Ezekiel 3:17-19, KJV).

“Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32; see also Luke 12:8, Romans 10:9, and 1 John 4:15, KJV).

If Christians feel they have found the truth and their lives have been enriched thereby, there is nothing wrong with them sharing their experiences and spreading their joy. In fact, I would expect them to react this way. Certainly, if I found something that changed my life for the better I would want others to know about it. And if I were genuinely convinced that those who did not believe in Christ were going to hell, I would do my very best to prevent this from happening; hell, I'd be preaching from the rooftops.

People have different ways of doing almost everything and when it comes to spreading the Word some Christians are more personable than others. During my long life, I have encountered both the rudely aggressive and the friendly persuader. Every time a Mormon comes to my door I feel good because I know I will meet sincere young men who are polite and upbeat. It has been over half a century since a non-Morman Christian attempted to convert me in person. The Internet is obviously another story and even here you can see the various styles of those Christians on a conversion mission. Some belittle and degrade, while others are positive and caring. It is what it is.

I suggest that when you criticize Christians for their attempts to convert you, it is proper to condemn their methods, but not their goals.

Wonderful post, Professor! You get it! Bravo!

- Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

What you want to hear and what you need to hear are usually two vastly different things.

And if you could see the PMs I have gotten here from the non Christians, you would see that it is clear they need some teaching.

This is true also, Sunshine. Although I wouldn't limit it to non Christians because I've read some pretty mean spirited things from people calling themselves Christians here too.

- Jeri

 

[strollingbones]

What you want to hear and what you need to hear are usually two vastly different things.

And if you could see the PMs I have gotten here from the non Christians, you would see that it is clear they need some teaching.

This is true also, Sunshine. Although I wouldn't limit it to non Christians because I've read some pretty mean spirited things from people calling themselves Christians here too.

- Jeri

it is always amusing to watch someone call themselves a christian but act so unholy.....
i see that daily on here and what is amazing is the other so called christians will jump to their defense due to them bunching together...even if the poster is acting very unchristian like....

 

[Statistikhengst]

What you want to hear and what you need to hear are usually two vastly different things.

And if you could see the PMs I have gotten here from the non Christians, you would see that it is clear they need some teaching.

This is an undesirable posting. First, how do you know for sure who is a Christian and who is not? Did G-d appoint you to be the special ambassador of litmus tests?

And that rot comes not just from non-christians. When one sees what a potty mouth you have and use, since you claim to be a Christian, I am amazed you were able to write that without throwing up from shame.

Just one look at the Repository of neg comments to laugh about will show very quickly how much you live up to your Christian ideals and then have the gall to write such drivel here. Your comments are full of jew-hate, bigotry and racism. They are also overbearing, haughty and harridanesque.


Here, have a house:

If I were a Christian, then the last person on Earth I would want representing my faith would be YOU.

 

[Statistikhengst]

What you want to hear and what you need to hear are usually two vastly different things.

And if you could see the PMs I have gotten here from the non Christians, you would see that it is clear they need some teaching.

This is true also, Sunshine. Although I wouldn't limit it to non Christians because I've read some pretty mean spirited things from people calling themselves Christians here too.

- Jeri

Indeed.

 

[strollingbones]

What you want to hear and what you need to hear are usually two vastly different things.

And if you could see the PMs I have gotten here from the non Christians, you would see that it is clear they need some teaching.

This is an undesirable posting. First, how do you know for sure who is a Christian and who is not? Did G-d appoint you to be the special ambassador of litmus tests?

And that rot comes not just from non-christians. When one sees what a potty mouth you have and use, since you claim to be a Christian, I am amazed you were able to write that without throwing up from shame.

Just one look at the Repository of neg comments to laugh about will show very quickly how much you live up to your Christian ideals and then have the gall to write such drivel here. Your comments are full of jew-hate, bigotry and racism. They are also overbearing, haughty and harridanesque.


Here, have a house:

If I were a Christian, then the last person on Earth I would want representing my faith would be YOU.

very well said, thank you.

 

[Statistikhengst]

What you want to hear and what you need to hear are usually two vastly different things.

And if you could see the PMs I have gotten here from the non Christians, you would see that it is clear they need some teaching.

This is an undesirable posting. First, how do you know for sure who is a Christian and who is not? Did G-d appoint you to be the special ambassador of litmus tests?

And that rot comes not just from non-christians. When one sees what a potty mouth you have and use, since you claim to be a Christian, I am amazed you were able to write that without throwing up from shame.

Just one look at the Repository of neg comments to laugh about will show very quickly how much you live up to your Christian ideals and then have the gall to write such drivel here. Your comments are full of jew-hate, bigotry and racism. They are also overbearing, haughty and harridanesque.


Here, have a house:

If I were a Christian, then the last person on Earth I would want representing my faith would be YOU.

very well said, thank you.

 

[editec]

Or equal value of burning somebody at the stake?

I think all religious beliefs are false, including yours.

What you are basically saying is Christianity rocks, Islam sux. No religion is innocent...

No, that's not what I am saying.

What I am saying is that even in the world of opinions and the freedom of religious expression it doesn't take a genius to notice that some professed beliefs qualify as fruit that is pleasing to the eye and good to eat while other fruit is poisonous and defiles and contaminates the mind.

but that isn't the point of this thread, is it?

and if it were, who decides what beliefs are "poisonous"? you?

SECULAR SOCIETY has no right to mess with beliefs.

But actions stemming from those "beliefs" had damned well better not violate SECULAR LAW.

I am sick of all my fellow believers who demand special consideration.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

What you want to hear and what you need to hear are usually two vastly different things.

And if you could see the PMs I have gotten here from the non Christians, you would see that it is clear they need some teaching.

This is true also, Sunshine. Although I wouldn't limit it to non Christians because I've read some pretty mean spirited things from people calling themselves Christians here too.

- Jeri

it is always amusing to watch someone call themselves a christian but act so unholy.....
i see that daily on here and what is amazing is the other so called christians will jump to their defense due to them bunching together...even if the poster is acting very unchristian like....

If you can show me where I've done that I'll apologise for it. I've read threads on the religion forum where there's been name calling and a lack of concern for the reputation of Christ ( very disturbing ) and I've read threads from non believers that have been combative and unkind and I find that equally repulsive. Maybe the answer is accepting that everyone is human and people say things they should not say sometimes. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

- Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

What you want to hear and what you need to hear are usually two vastly different things.

And if you could see the PMs I have gotten here from the non Christians, you would see that it is clear they need some teaching.

I responded to Strollingbones post and wanted to respond to this one also as someone brought this to my attention today, Sunshine. I've already addressed the second part of what you've said here so let me address the other thing you said.

Yes. What you want to hear and what you need to hear are usually two vastly different things. I agree with this. Truth is rarely recieved well if it compels the listener to change something they are resisting. It may even be deeply offensive to them and that is when they are going to feel as if it is a personal attack against them. All I can say to this is be led by the Spirit.
[MENTION=21954]Sunshine[/MENTION]
It may be that right now people appear not to listen to a word Christians are saying here but if they will be firm with the truth ( when asked about it ) then when the day of trouble hits that person they may very well come to you and ask questions because they know you won't lie to them. I believe you are an honest person and would be forthright with anyone including your own friends.

On a grander scale which has little to do with you personally, Sunshine, this is what I believe:

The greatest drawback to effectively sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ is our own behavior. Whether it is fair or unfair Christians are expected to be different than the world. We are in the world, not of it. We lift up, edify, encourage, love, speak truth but if we are telling people to go F themselves in between threads we're tearing down the kingdom of God with our own hands. I know unbelievers who behave better than believers. That should not be. I haven't been posting sermons on the religion forum for past few months but it would be a good idea for someone to post some on the beatitudes. imo.

When Jesus is lifted up all men will be drawn unto him. The answer is lifting up Jesus Christ in our lives. Not posting rapture ready posts every day or two. It isn't our words it is our life----> everything the Christian does has to be aligned with the Word to stand the test and that is not easy to do. Which is why the road is narrow. If it were so easy everyone would be doing it. It isn't.

 

[strollingbones]

This is true also, Sunshine. Although I wouldn't limit it to non Christians because I've read some pretty mean spirited things from people calling themselves Christians here too.

- Jeri

it is always amusing to watch someone call themselves a christian but act so unholy.....
i see that daily on here and what is amazing is the other so called christians will jump to their defense due to them bunching together...even if the poster is acting very unchristian like....

If you can show me where I've done that I'll apologise for it. I've read threads on the religion forum where there's been name calling and a lack of concern for the reputation of Christ ( very disturbing ) and I've read threads from non believers that have been combative and unkind and I find that equally repulsive. Maybe the answer is accepting that everyone is human and people say things they should not say sometimes. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

- Jeri

the post was not directed at you nor intended to cause you any reflections upon your behavior as a christian......i am sorry you took it to heart that way...unfortunately the ones that need the reflection..will simply deflect

 

[bodecea]

it is always amusing to watch someone call themselves a christian but act so unholy.....
i see that daily on here and what is amazing is the other so called christians will jump to their defense due to them bunching together...even if the poster is acting very unchristian like....

If you can show me where I've done that I'll apologise for it. I've read threads on the religion forum where there's been name calling and a lack of concern for the reputation of Christ ( very disturbing ) and I've read threads from non believers that have been combative and unkind and I find that equally repulsive. Maybe the answer is accepting that everyone is human and people say things they should not say sometimes. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

- Jeri

the post was not directed at you nor intended to cause you any reflections upon your behavior as a christian......i am sorry you took it to heart that way...unfortunately the ones that need the reflection..will simply deflect

Maybe what we should do is point out the un-christian behavior of seld-declared christians by answering their rude and crude posts with: "Is that the christian way to say things?" or something to that effect.