What purpose does the constitution have if governors can make church illegal

[JoeB131]

Wrong the constitution allows that all churches be allowed to have services as they see fit.

No, actually, they really don't. Religion is not an excuse to break laws that otherwise exist.

It's why I can't kill people because I claim to be a follower of Quetzalcoatl.

Catholics can not be baptized with fake internet holy water or break the bread of Christ on TV.

You do raise an interesting question. If I put five bottles of water in front of you, can you tell me which one of them is filled with "Holy Water"? Is there a test where you can prove which one is full of holy water? The water only becomes "holy" if you believe it's holy.

None of the stay at home orders are legal either, however the deep state is killing tens of thousands who do not obey the master plan

And now you went full bore crazy.

 

[esalla]

Wrong the constitution allows that all churches be allowed to have services as they see fit.

No, actually, they really don't. Religion is not an excuse to break laws that otherwise exist.

It's why I can't kill people because I claim to be a follower of Quetzalcoatl.

View attachment 326051

Catholics can not be baptized with fake internet holy water or break the bread of Christ on TV.

You do raise an interesting question. If I put five bottles of water in front of you, can you tell me which one of them is filled with "Holy Water"? Is there a test where you can prove which one is full of holy water? The water only becomes "holy" if you believe it's holy.

View attachment 326053

None of the stay at home orders are legal either, however the deep state is killing tens of thousands who do not obey the master plan

And now you went full bore crazy.

OK son, you post more batman and robin cartoons

 

[OldLady]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.

Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

Yeah, it's awful how the government is pulling down all those online church services, isn't it?

The constitution specifies that anyone may practice their religion as they see fit.

So yes online church services are an awful violation of the constitution

Got that old woman?

I've got your number; new troll agitating for civil war.

FTR, praying and listening to sermons on line, even singing if the dog will permit it, IS practicing religion. The government is happy that ministers and parishioners have figured out how to do it. Check with China if you want to know what repressing religion is all about. They're experts.

Static on the radio is what your posts are.

 

[Likkmee]

BTW. Your bible is likely Chinese.Coronascribe
AMITY PRINTING - Exposing China's Nanjing Amity Printing Company

 

[OldLady]

Sacraments can not be performed over the internet, not communion anyway. Not as Jesus demonstrated at the last supper

It's really hard for me to believe you're worried about not being able to eat Jesus every week.

 

[HappyJoy]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.

Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

500 message in one week, all telling us what a great job Trump is doing covid. Now you're promoting civil war.

They want a redo of our last civil war. Slightly different boundaries but not much else changed.

Are you in line now for your arm tattoo and or implant identifier so you can be part of the new World order

Yeah, sorry I don't take Alex Jones seriously.

 

[HappyJoy]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.

Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

Church is illegal? Where?

The free exercise of religion is illegal in the USA at the moment you kenyan shitstain

It is? My Bishop cancelled our church, not the governor.

Because the hit men attacked Italy to secure the Bishops obedience to the deep state

Sorry ya' little shit, I hadn't gotten that far. Ok.

Amendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof , or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press , or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances .

Are you allowed to hold church in a burning building? Is government allowed to hold churches to a higher level, even ignore laws that others? Wouldn't that be making laws that respecting an establishment of religion?

Yes you can hold church services in a burning building and even with live rattlesnakes

Really

No, you can't. The state has the right to close down a burning building so that no one can enter, same with one that is condemned.

No church buildings have been condemned, only the free right of religion is condemned. Sacraments can not be performed over the internet, not communion anyway. Not as Jesus demonstrated at the last supper

If a state condemned a building do you think a church would have the right to hold services there?

Even better, because personally if a group of people want to willfully off themselves then I'm OK with that. What if a religion felt that they wanted to push that burning building over a cliff over a village below endangering others not belonging to this religion, do they have the right to do that?

What churches caught the covid and were structurally condemned?

All you are doing is making up nonsense to fuel your delusions

I'm giving an example of where your religious rights end.

 

[Seawytch]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.

Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

Yeah, it's awful how the government is pulling down all those online church services, isn't it?

The constitution specifies that anyone may practice their religion as they see fit.

So yes online church services are an awful violation of the constitution

Got that old woman?

The Constitution says no such thing. Can Rastafarians smoke pot anytime they want? Can a Satan Worshipper sacrifice a virgin?

Shut up, stay home and listen to Jesus.

But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.​

 

[Supposn]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.
Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

Esalla, you’re implying a single or a coalition of groups attempting to modify or reinterpret the first amendment?

If the U.S. Congress, and/or the U.S. Supreme Court, and/or the U.S. President enables, or fails to overcome any attempts to reverse or in any manner undermine the U.S. Constitution’s first amendment, that will eventually begin the end of our nation’s democratic republic character.

The first Constitutional Convention's deligates indicated their most critical concerns by including the first ten amendments along with the U.S. Constitution they accepted. I believe they indicated the importance of the first amendment issues by designating it to be the first amendment.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[ReinyDays]

You are not correct.

First of all, you and most other people making similar statements fail to recognize that is there is no "pandemic exception" to the fundamental liberties safeguarded by the Constitution. As several federal courts of appeal have recently emphasized in the present COVID-19 context, “individual rights secured by the Constitution do not disappear during a public health crisis.” In re Abbott, --- F.3d ---, 2020 WL 1685929, at *6 (5th Cir. Apr. 7, 2020). The protections in the Bill of Rights are always in force to restrain government action, even during a pandemic. And although the Supreme Court has held that the government is authorized to take certain temporary (and I emphasize temporary) action that might limit an individual's liberty interest in the face of an emergency that poses "great danger" to the public, those measures are scrutinized for whether they represent the least restrictive means necessary to accomplish a lawful government purpose, and whether the measures invade fundamental rights secured by the Constitution.

To that end, the Supreme Court mandates that federal courts intervene to strike down such a law "If [the] statute purporting to have been enacted to protect the public health, the public morals, or the public safety ... is, beyond all question, a plain, palpable invasion of rights secured by the fundamental law." Jacobson v. Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11, 29 (1905).

As it applies to the subject at hand, the "Free Exercise Clause" of the First Amendment guarantees to all Americans the “right to believe and profess whatever religious doctrine [they] desire[],” as well as their right to act on these beliefs through gathering for public worship or through other acts of religious exercise in their daily lives. Empl’t Div. v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872, 877 (1990). The test for determining whether a law unconstitutionally invades the First Amendment rights of religious believers or their practices under the Free Exercise Clause, as articulated by the Supreme Court, directs federal courts to “survey meticulously” the text and operation of a challenged law to ensure that it is neutral and of general applicability. Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah, 508 U.S. 520, 534 (1993).

As SCOTUS has explained, a law is not neutral if it treats the same conduct as lawful when undertaken for secular reasons but unlawful when undertaken for religious reasons, or visits “gratuitous restrictions on religious conduct,” among other things. Id. at 533-35, 538. A law is not generally applicable if “in a selective manner it imposes burdens only on conduct motivated by religious belief," including by “fail[ing] to prohibit nonreligious conduct that endangers [its] interests in a similar or greater degree than ... does the prohibited conduct.” Id. at 534.

In other words, under this test, as applied in the COVID-19 context, any state or local law that restricts a citizen's First Amendment right to religious exercise will be stricken down as unconstitutional--even when authorized under emergency powers--where it can be shown that the distinction between nonreligious essential services and religious essential services, as applied under the law, is not both neutral and generally applicable.

That is precisely what happened in Mississippi recently, where the city sent police to issue $500 fines and shut down a drive-in church service which exceeded the CDC's COVID-19 guidelines as congregants were required to remain in their cars with the windows rolled up, while at the same time permitting restaurants to operate which allowed citizens to have their windows rolled down. A federal lawsuit was then filed by the church/attendants, and the DOJ promptly intervened on their behalf citing the above principles. Just last week the city dropped all of the $500 citations it issued, conceding its error in an effort to limit its damages (though that will certainly not eliminate the claims pending against it for its clear violation of federal/constitutional rights).

Why am I not surprised nobody has responded to this post ... why am I not surprised everybody ignored this post ... did the actual legal citations scare y'all off ... [sigh] ... cherry picking the Constitution whilst ignoring Article III ...

I think the flaw in the OP is that the restrictions on gatherings doesn't affect The Church ... if we remember that The Church is The People ... not the building ... what I'd like to add is the concept of what is onerous to the freedom of religious belief ... or by extension, what is onerous to any of our Constitutional Rights ... does skipping mass on Sunday make you not a Catholic anymore? ... that's a ridiculous notion ... does not allowing services for a couple months force Lutherans to abandon their doctrine? ... I hope not ...

The 1st Amendment has never protected human sacrifice under the establishment clause ... just like is doesn't protect slander or libel under the Free Speech or Free Press clauses ... cartels are illegal in spite the Free Association clause ... these are all reasonable exceptions as none of these are particularly onerous to the free exercise of these rights ... I'm free to believe that cutting the beating heart out of a person and holding this still beating heart up to the sunset is the only way the sun will ever rise again ... I'm even allowed to peacefully say this is my belief ... nothing is this lock down state prevents me from either the belief or the speech about my belief ...

You don't think a SARS pandemic is reason enough to shut down the economy? ... then elect better State officials ... just don't tell the next State over how to handle their own affairs ...

 

[bodecea]

I can't believe that somebody is trying to pull off the "religious persecution" bit again. Most religions aren't complaining. It's just the same morons who usually whine; the theatrical ones who like to put on a show.

Grifters who can't get money if their parishioners are at home.

 

[bodecea]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.

Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

Church is illegal? Where?

The free exercise of religion is illegal in the USA at the moment you kenyan creep, how is your husband Mike

I beg your pardon?

 

[bodecea]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.

Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

Church is illegal? Where?

The free exercise of religion is illegal in the USA at the moment you kenyan shitstain

It is? My Bishop cancelled our church, not the governor.

Because the hit men attacked Italy to secure the Popes and Bishops obedience to the deep state

What a silly silly person you are.

 

[JWBooth]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.

Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

This was recognized over a century and a half ago.

 

[Dragonlady]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.

Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

500 message in one week, all telling us what a great job Trump is doing covid. Now you're promoting civil war.

They want a redo of our last civil war. Slightly different boundaries but not much else changed.

More likely a Russian bot paid to sew discord over this virus. Any poster who appears out of nowhere and starts with 500 anti-law and order posts in one week is highly suspect in my books.

Recent reports say that this level of anti-closure protest and dissension is being promoted by anti-government radical right wing radical groups, seeking anarchy and civil war in the US. They're using the pandemic to further undermine the government.

There are numerous radical right wing seditious groups in the USA seeking to destroy the US government, and regardless of what the conservative here keep saying about the Democrats, none of this shit is coming from the left.

 

[HappyJoy]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.

Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

500 message in one week, all telling us what a great job Trump is doing covid. Now you're promoting civil war.

They want a redo of our last civil war. Slightly different boundaries but not much else changed.

More likely a Russian bot paid to sew discord over this virus. Any poster who appears out of nowhere and starts with 500 anti-law and order posts in one week is highly suspect in my books.

Recent reports say that this level of anti-closure protest and dissension is being promoted by anti-government radical right wing radical groups, seeking anarchy and civil war in the US. They're using the pandemic to further undermine the government.

There are numerous radical right wing seditious groups in the USA seeking to destroy the US government, and regardless of what the conservative here keep saying about the Democrats, none of this shit is coming from the left.

Oh, I didn't notice the posters join date.

And yes, I believe these protests are just a warmed over astro-turf tea party movment. Someone yelled jump and these idiots are reaching for the stars

 

[Dragonlady]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.

Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

Yeah, it's awful how the government is pulling down all those online church services, isn't it?

The constitution specifies that anyone may practice their religion as they see fit.

So yes online church services are an awful violation of the constitution

Got that old woman?

I've got your number; new troll agitating for civil war.

FTR, praying and listening to sermons on line, even singing if the dog will permit it, IS practicing religion. The government is happy that ministers and parishioners have figured out how to do it. Check with China if you want to know what repressing religion is all about. They're experts.

Static on the radio is what your posts are.

Jesus Christ preached His sermons outdoors, in the open air, not in any temple or synagogue. When he prayed, he didn't go to the synagogue to pray. He prayed outdoors, in quiet places, by himself. There is absolutely no need to go to church.

The 3rd Commandment only says to honour the Sabbath Day and keep it holy, but the Old Testament says nothing about going to Temple, only rules about not working, making extra food on the day before and keeping the leftovers for the Sabbath. Not one word about going to church, or worship services.

This is yet another example of radical right wingers seeking to cement their snowflake status as persecuted Christians. If these fools didn't represent such a danger to the rest of the population, I'd lock the lot of these protestors up together and let them infect one another. When they start dying, my response would be - "You made your choice. You knew the risks. Don't expect the rest of us to risk our lives to save you from the consequences of your bad decisions now. Personal responsibility folks!".

I'm watching foolish politicians opening up nail salons, massage clinics, and beaches. This will not end well.

 

[esalla]

? The constitution is no longer worth the paper that it is written on.

Time for a real hot and nasty civil war or as it be end to religious persecution

Yeah, it's awful how the government is pulling down all those online church services, isn't it?

The constitution specifies that anyone may practice their religion as they see fit.

So yes online church services are an awful violation of the constitution

Got that old woman?

I've got your number; new troll agitating for civil war.

FTR, praying and listening to sermons on line, even singing if the dog will permit it, IS practicing religion. The government is happy that ministers and parishioners have figured out how to do it. Check with China if you want to know what repressing religion is all about. They're experts.

Static on the radio is what your posts are.

Jesus Christ preached His sermons outdoors, in the open air, not in any temple or synagogue. When he prayed, he didn't go to the synagogue to pray. He prayed outdoors, in quiet places, by himself. There is absolutely no need to go to church.

The 3rd Commandment only says to honour the Sabbath Day and keep it holy, but the Old Testament says nothing about going to Temple, only rules about not working, making extra food on the day before and keeping the leftovers for the Sabbath. Not one word about going to church, or worship services.

This is yet another example of radical right wingers seeking to cement their snowflake status as persecuted Christians. If these fools didn't represent such a danger to the rest of the population, I'd lock the lot of these protestors up together and let them infect one another. When they start dying, my response would be - "You made your choice. You knew the risks. Don't expect the rest of us to risk our lives to save you from the consequences of your bad decisions now. Personal responsibility folks!".

I'm watching foolish politicians opening up nail salons, massage clinics, and beaches. This will not end well.

They will not allow Christians to worship outdoors either silly

Wake up

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I can't believe that somebody is trying to pull off the "religious persecution" bit again. Most religions aren't complaining. It's just the same morons who usually whine; the theatrical ones who like to put on a show.

Grifters who can't get money if their parishioners are at home.

Once again, you speak of that which you do not know, you carpet-muncher.

 

[esalla]

I can't believe that somebody is trying to pull off the "religious persecution" bit again. Most religions aren't complaining. It's just the same morons who usually whine; the theatrical ones who like to put on a show.

Grifters who can't get money if their parishioners are at home.

Once again, you speak of that which you do not know, you carpet-muncher.

Does your Bishop miss the altar boys yet