What should abortion laws be?

[Ipsl]

Its not my place to tell someone else to do to their body.

Why do people keep making this asanine argument? Im pretty libertarian myself I don't believe in laws whos only purpose is to protect people from their own stupidity. Do whatever the fuck you want to do yourself. I don't give a shit. Stop with the sanctimonious drivel above. No one is arguing agaisnt it.

I, and socities governed by laws in general, give a shit when what you do to yourself starts to negatively effect OTHER people. This isn't about what I think woman should be able to do to themselves. It's about what they can do to OTHERS.

It clearly IS about what one woman is goign to do to her body. If you want to have the "at what time is the fetus a person" debate is another issue. But to say its just wrong because of a persons religious beliefs is wrong.

On the other point if a life form can not live a sustained life on its own with out the using another lifeforms' energy, its usually defined as a parasite.

I would also rather see less babies suffering.

 

[AllieBaba]

Prove that not aborting contributes to the suffering of children. Use statistics, please.

Good luck. Can't be done.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Its not my place to tell someone else to do to their body.

Cool. So you have no objection to me strapping a bomb to it and detonating it in Times Square on New Years Eve?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

It clearly IS about what one woman is goign to do to her body

Wrong. Time for a remedial biology lesson: Another organism is not a part of your own body.

On the other point if a life form can not live a sustained life on its own with out the using another lifeforms' energy, its usually defined as a parasite.

Like you. See, you need the energy you get from other lifeforms- that's why you eat.

 

[Yukon]

Its not my place to tell someone else to do to their body.

Cool. So you have no objection to me strapping a bomb to it and detonating it in Times Square on New Years Eve?

By all means and hopefully it will detonate before you reach Times Square. By the way is it the 72 virgins that you want?

 

[Bern80]

It clearly IS about what one woman is goign to do to her body. If you want to have the "at what time is the fetus a person" debate is another issue. But to say its just wrong because of a persons religious beliefs is wrong.

My opinions about abortion have little to do with my relgious beliefs. I have yet to see a compelling argument that a baby is less of a human being moments before birth to moments after. If just doing something to one's own body is all this was about I would be right with you. But that isn't what abortion is. Abortion is doing something to another body that happens to reside within you.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Its not my place to tell someone else to do to their body.

Cool. So you have no objection to me strapping a bomb to it and detonating it in Times Square on New Years Eve?

By all means and hopefully it will detonate before you reach Times Square. By the way is it the 72 virgins that you want?

Awesome!


Let the record show Yukon supports mass murder.

 

[Yukon]

Mass murder is being committed every day in Iraq. Bombs are being dropped on innocent men, women, and children.

 

[Bern80]

Mass murder is being committed every day in Iraq. Bombs are being dropped on innocent men, women, and children.

Let the record show this is not a denial.

 

[JD_2B]

Its not my place to tell someone else to do to their body.

Why do people keep making this asanine argument? Im pretty libertarian myself I don't believe in laws whos only purpose is to protect people from their own stupidity. Do whatever the fuck you want to do yourself. I don't give a shit. Stop with the sanctimonious drivel above. No one is arguing agaisnt it.

I, and socities governed by laws in general, give a shit when what you do to yourself starts to negatively effect OTHER people. This isn't about what I think woman should be able to do to themselves. It's about what they can do to OTHERS.

It clearly IS about what one woman is goign to do to her body. If you want to have the "at what time is the fetus a person" debate is another issue. But to say its just wrong because of a persons religious beliefs is wrong.

On the other point if a life form can not live a sustained life on its own with out the using another lifeforms' energy, its usually defined as a parasite.

I would also rather see less babies suffering.

We just spent 40 pages discussing personhood, Bern the troll and I did, and guess what? Bern claims that peer reviewed medical research is worthless, because "he cant understand it", and thus, it does not "do anything to further my point", etc, etc. Cecile is the same way, as is pro.
In fact, Pro posted a ton of websites on here, all of which he obviously googled, which I copied and pasted relevant information from, which negated HIS points (they are saying that a fetus is a person!!) and supported mine (I am pro choice all the way). Of course, posts like that get drowned out by all the flaming and trolling this extremely long winded thread has seen.. but I guess that is just how the antis roll...

Don't waste your time, lol.. These guys aren't worth it!!

 

[Bern80]

Why do people keep making this asanine argument? Im pretty libertarian myself I don't believe in laws whos only purpose is to protect people from their own stupidity. Do whatever the fuck you want to do yourself. I don't give a shit. Stop with the sanctimonious drivel above. No one is arguing agaisnt it.

I, and socities governed by laws in general, give a shit when what you do to yourself starts to negatively effect OTHER people. This isn't about what I think woman should be able to do to themselves. It's about what they can do to OTHERS.

It clearly IS about what one woman is goign to do to her body. If you want to have the "at what time is the fetus a person" debate is another issue. But to say its just wrong because of a persons religious beliefs is wrong.

On the other point if a life form can not live a sustained life on its own with out the using another lifeforms' energy, its usually defined as a parasite.

I would also rather see less babies suffering.

We just spent 40 pages discussing personhood, Bern the troll and I did, and guess what? Bern claims that peer reviewed medical research is worthless, because "he cant understand it", and thus, it does not "do anything to further my point", etc, etc. Cecile is the same way, as is pro.
In fact, Pro posted a ton of websites on here, all of which he obviously googled, which I copied and pasted relevant information from, which negated HIS points (they are saying that a fetus is a person!!) and supported mine (I am pro choice all the way). Of course, posts like that get drowned out by all the flaming and trolling this extremely long winded thread has seen.. but I guess that is just how the antis roll...

Don't waste your time, lol.. These guys aren't worth it!!

Where did any peer reviewed medical research you posted ever broach the subject of personhood? I explained to you none of this is subjective. A person is defined is an alive human. You agreed a fetus is human. The definition of alive is not dead according to the dictionary. That is pretty clear cut that a a fetus is a person at some point in the womb.

 

[AllieBaba]

What the hell is JD babbling about now?

 

[Bern80]

What the hell is JD babbling about now?

At this point she is about as coherent as someone desperately trying convince people water isn't wet.

 

[JD_2B]

It clearly IS about what one woman is goign to do to her body. If you want to have the "at what time is the fetus a person" debate is another issue. But to say its just wrong because of a persons religious beliefs is wrong.

On the other point if a life form can not live a sustained life on its own with out the using another lifeforms' energy, its usually defined as a parasite.

I would also rather see less babies suffering.

We just spent 40 pages discussing personhood, Bern the troll and I did, and guess what? Bern claims that peer reviewed medical research is worthless, because "he cant understand it", and thus, it does not "do anything to further my point", etc, etc. Cecile is the same way, as is pro.
In fact, Pro posted a ton of websites on here, all of which he obviously googled, which I copied and pasted relevant information from, which negated HIS points (they are saying that a fetus is a person!!) and supported mine (I am pro choice all the way). Of course, posts like that get drowned out by all the flaming and trolling this extremely long winded thread has seen.. but I guess that is just how the antis roll...

Don't waste your time, lol.. These guys aren't worth it!!

Where did any peer reviewed medical research you posted ever broach the subject of personhood? I explained to you none of this is subjective. A person is defined is an alive human. You agreed a fetus is human. The definition of alive is not dead according to the dictionary. That is pretty clear cut that a a fetus is a person at some point in the womb.

By this logic, a sperm cell is a person...

Sperm is human... sperm is not dead... Sperm is a person. Fucking idiot. Try Try again...

 

[Ipsl]

It clearly IS about what one woman is goign to do to her body

Wrong. Time for a remedial biology lesson: Another organism is not a part of your own body.

On the other point if a life form can not live a sustained life on its own with out the using another lifeforms' energy, its usually defined as a parasite.

Like you. See, you need the energy you get from other lifeforms- that's why you eat.

Perhaps I should be more specific than since you don't understand what I meant.

While I do use energy from other lifeforms. I acquire the food on my own. Weather its go out and buy some meat or, in the animal world, hunting or grazing. A unborn fetus can't be removed from the host and still survive. Does that make more sense to you now?

On the other note about children suffering its pretty cut and dry. People are becoming sexually active at younger ages and many do not use protection. Now that child will/ could suffer from lack of real support monetarily and mentally. A 14 year old doesn't have the money or the maturity to raise a child properly.

 

[Bern80]

By this logic, a sperm cell is a person...

Sperm is human... sperm is not dead... Sperm is a person. Fucking idiot. Try Try again...

I used human as a noun modified by the word alive. You used human as an adjective to modify the noun sperm. I hope you have enough knowledge of the english language to understand the difference and the implications of it.

What you fail to accept is that you needed to come up with a term to justify your position on abortion. You came up with personhood. Which really wasn't the best choice, seeing as how the accepted definitions don't really fit that. Don't piss and moan at me. Take it up with Merriam-Webster. You will see mulitple defintions of the word person there. Some will fit a fetus and some will not. Pick one.

Main Entry: per·son
Pronunciation: \ˈpər-sən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu mask, from Greek prosōpa, plural of prosōpon face, mask — more at prosopopoeia
Date: 13th century
1 : human, individual &#8212;sometimes used in combination especially by those who prefer to avoid man in compounds applicable to both sexes <chairperson> <spokesperson>
2 : a character or part in or as if in a play : guise
3 a : one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians b : the unitary personality of Christ that unites the divine and human natures
4 a archaic : bodily appearance b : the body of a human being; also : the body and clothing <unlawful search of the person>
5 : the personality of a human being : self
6 : one (as a human being, a partnership, or a corporation) that is recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties
7 : reference of a segment of discourse to the speaker, to one spoken to, or to one spoken of as indicated by means of certain pronouns or in many languages by verb inflection

&#8212; per·son·hood \-&#716;hu&#775;d\ noun

&#8212; in person : in one's bodily presence <the movie star appeared in person>

 

[JD_2B]

Ipsl, I have made these same points over and over again with these idiots, and they do not seem to want to face facts on this issue.. I just don't want to see you wasting several weeks and forty more pages on people whose minds are too jaded by emotion to see the facts for what they are. =)

 

[JD_2B]

By this logic, a sperm cell is a person...

Sperm is human... sperm is not dead... Sperm is a person. Fucking idiot. Try Try again...

In this case you are using human as adjective to describe the sperm (obviously not all sperm is human sperm). In the case of the definition of person, human is used as a noun modified by the word alive.

Regardless those are the definitions of the terms. You either have to modify your qualifier for justifying abortion to something other than whether a fetus is a person or explain how your justification is compatible with the accepted definitions.

Oh for crying out loud- you have got to be kidding me. You are claiming that just because something has human DNA, and is growing, it is alive, and as long as it is human and alive then it is a person. This is YOUR logic that is wrong, not mine. By YOUR logic, you even think that a blastocyst or embryo is a person, based on it being human, and growing.

All I have ever asked of you is to be consistent with your logic, and you cant even do that much.

 

[JD_2B]

Fifty fucking pages.. 50!! Will this illogical, overemotional madness you people have ever end??? GOOD GRIEF!!!!

 

[&#9773;proletarian&#9773;]

In fact, Pro posted a ton of websites on here, all of which he obviously googled, which I copied and pasted relevant information from, which negated HIS points (they are saying that a fetus is a person!!) and supported mine (I am pro choice all the way). Of course, posts like that get drowned out by all the flaming and trolling this extremely long winded thread has seen.. but I guess that is just how the antis roll...

Don't waste your time, lol.. These guys aren't worth it!!

So you admit the studies agree with me and Cecile, yet think that in doing so they are negating that which they support?