What, specifically, do you think Obama has done wrong in terms of the economy?

[jgarden]

Obama's "crime" is that he failed to do a good enough job at fixing the "worst of both worlds" that he inherited from the Bush Administration.

Not only did Obama inherit a worldwide financial crisis, but 2 wars and a federal debt that was over 84% of the nation's GDP.

Faced with massive debt and tax cut policies that severely limited the government's ability to raise revenue, Obama was left with few options.

His solution was to increase the debt even further and expand the war in Afghanistan while losing the peace in Iraq.
Way to go.

Obama is the first Democratic president since 1945 to increase the federal debt/GDP ratio.

When the policies of the Reagan, GHW Bush and GW Bush Administrations added 60% increase in the debt/GDP ratio, the Republicans were mysteriously quiet about any debt crisis. Obama inherited a debt/GDP ratio of approximately 85% when he took office.

Apparently conservatives discovered the government debt problem only after they were voted out of office.

As for Iraq and Afghanistan, if the Republicans had done half as well, they would now be heralding it as one of their great foreign policy successes and dancing in the streets.

 

[The Rabbi]

Obama's "crime" is that he failed to do a good enough job at fixing the "worst of both worlds" that he inherited from the Bush Administration.

Not only did Obama inherit a worldwide financial crisis, but 2 wars and a federal debt that was over 84% of the nation's GDP.

Faced with massive debt and tax cut policies that severely limited the government's ability to raise revenue, Obama was left with few options.

His solution was to increase the debt even further and expand the war in Afghanistan while losing the peace in Iraq.
Way to go.

Obama is the first Democratic president since 1945 to increase the federal debt/GDP ratio.

When the policies of the Reagan, GHW Bush and GW Bush Administrations added 60% increase in the debt/GDP ratio, the Republicans were mysteriously quiet about any debt crisis. Obama inherited a debt/GDP ratio of approximately 85% when he took office.

Apparently conservatives discovered the government debt problem only after they were voted out of office.

As for Iraq and Afghanistan, if the Republicans had done half as well, they would now be heralding it as one of their great foreign policy successes and dancing in the streets.

If you want to make out that the deficit situation was dire when Obama took office then it kind of shoots your argument when I point out that he massively increased that deficit.
If deficits under Bush and Reagan were bad, they are horrendous under Obama. His deficit is bigger than Reagan's entire budget!

 

[cheetah440]

Yes, but why is it Obama's fault that the UE is up? That is the basic point of my OP.

He's been in charge for three years, for two years he had a majority in both houses

He did nothing for the economy and nothing for UE.

Why? I could conjecture to amuse myself, but I'd like to hear your reasons for his failures.

And please none of this party of no bs, that's been debunked by obama on 60 minutes.

Obama's hyper-diplomatic approach with Republicans has been costly. I also blame the inaction on the democrat controlled congress in the first two years. That being said, I think Obama has made a genuine effort to improve the economy. He was just a little misguided. How this has affected the UE is unclear, but there is no denying that there has been steady (although slight) economic growth in the past 9 months.

The main problem is that Obama is creating a business environment that is uncertain. Are taxes going up, or not. Bush tax custs going up or not. Obamacare, what the hell is the impact. Frank-Dodd regs, what does it mean. Take all of this together and business sits and waits. After a while, business will just get used to this and will start to move. That's sort of what is happening, but no enough. We were destined to have 10-11 UE, nothing he could do about it. But without all the uncertainty that was created, we would have had a more robust recovery. I still think we are facing longterm 6-7%UE. There's just too many uneducated, too many lifetime welfare recipients that really have no chance. The educated, the professionals are doing fine. UE is actually low for this group. The HS dropout or traditional blue collar type of person is struggling and going to struggle for a long time. Factories aren't coming back, efficiency is working. Many of these people can't adjust and adapt. We face long term structural problems that few are really talking about.
Tax policy won't solve it, it will just make some people feel better.

 

[DontBeStupid]

His solution was to increase the debt even further

The more I think about this comment, the more I am convinced it's not just a biased rant. It's a lie. A complete and total lie. Whatever you think of the Obama stimulus plan, we all know the plan was not simply about increasing the debt.

Why do you feel the need to lie about this? Shouldn't your point of view be able to stand on its own with out lying?

 

[The Rabbi]

His solution was to increase the debt even further

The more I think about this comment, the more I am convinced it's not just a biased rant. It's a lie. A complete and total lie. Whatever you think of the Obama stimulus plan, we all know the plan was not simply about increasing the debt.

Why do you feel the need to lie about this? Shouldn't your point of view be able to stand on its own with out lying?

Do you believe the stimulus did not increase the deficit? How do you think we paid for it?

 

[Sallow]

How large should it have been? It grew relentlessly as it was discussed, until they passed about the largest stimulus that had been talked about.
And it still failed.

There are absolutely zero studies showing the stimulus failed. At best you could find a study that shows a small positive, but you cannot find one that says it failed, because it did not fail.

Repeating that for the Perry fans: the stimulus did NOT fail.

The stimulus should have been closer to $2T and should have been all spending projects with no tax cuts. Had it been that size, we would not be having this conversation.

Please read:

Briebart?

Really?

 

[DontBeStupid]

His solution was to increase the debt even further

The more I think about this comment, the more I am convinced it's not just a biased rant. It's a lie. A complete and total lie. Whatever you think of the Obama stimulus plan, we all know the plan was not simply about increasing the debt.

Why do you feel the need to lie about this? Shouldn't your point of view be able to stand on its own with out lying?

Do you believe the stimulus did not increase the deficit? How do you think we paid for it?

If you're talking about a budget deficit, no, it didn't, since it was outside the budget. If you're talking about about our total deficit, then yes, it did in the short term. If you're talking about our total debt, then yes it did as well.

But of course, you weren't talking about any of that. You said, you think Obama's solution to the economic crisis was to "increase the debt even further" and that is a lie.

 

[cheetah440]

His solution was to increase the debt even further

The more I think about this comment, the more I am convinced it's not just a biased rant. It's a lie. A complete and total lie. Whatever you think of the Obama stimulus plan, we all know the plan was not simply about increasing the debt.

Why do you feel the need to lie about this? Shouldn't your point of view be able to stand on its own with out lying?

Actually I think that statement has merit. Obama is a spend and tax liberal. Liberal 2.0. Spend us so far into debt, the only answer is obvious. Tax. And whom shall we tax? Well certainly not those who reaped the vast benefit from the Bush tax cuts. No, for them we will cut even more. Payroll cuts for them. Well, now we are spending more and taking in even less??? Fiscal insanity? Nope, Liberal 2.0. Of course all those who are getting tax cuts will agree. TAX THEM!!, TAX THE RICH!!!.

The dream lives on, they want rates above 50% again. They need to avenge that bastard Reagan. Obama is smart, very smart. He knew he couldn't come in tax guns blazing. Spend first, spend fast, spend a lot and keep spending. When you've spent enough you simply cry about revenues. And when you've cut enough for the sheeple, they will follow. This is exactly why I was screaming at the deal done last December. Obama snookered the GOP bigtime.

 

[peach174]

His belief that Government can create jobs is wrong.
Government can create short term employment and long term government jobs.
The private sector creates the jobs.

 

[Sallow]

He's been in charge for three years, for two years he had a majority in both houses

He did nothing for the economy and nothing for UE.

Why? I could conjecture to amuse myself, but I'd like to hear your reasons for his failures.

And please none of this party of no bs, that's been debunked by obama on 60 minutes.

Obama's hyper-diplomatic approach with Republicans has been costly. I also blame the inaction on the democrat controlled congress in the first two years. That being said, I think Obama has made a genuine effort to improve the economy. He was just a little misguided. How this has affected the UE is unclear, but there is no denying that there has been steady (although slight) economic growth in the past 9 months.

The main problem is that Obama is creating a business environment that is uncertain. Are taxes going up, or not. Bush tax custs going up or not. Obamacare, what the hell is the impact. Frank-Dodd regs, what does it mean. Take all of this together and business sits and waits. After a while, business will just get used to this and will start to move. That's sort of what is happening, but no enough. We were destined to have 10-11 UE, nothing he could do about it. But without all the uncertainty that was created, we would have had a more robust recovery. I still think we are facing longterm 6-7%UE. There's just too many uneducated, too many lifetime welfare recipients that really have no chance. The educated, the professionals are doing fine. UE is actually low for this group. The HS dropout or traditional blue collar type of person is struggling and going to struggle for a long time. Factories aren't coming back, efficiency is working. Many of these people can't adjust and adapt. We face long term structural problems that few are really talking about.
Tax policy won't solve it, it will just make some people feel better.

And really..how did he do that? By rescuing the financial industry? By rescuing GM? Remember that Bush let Lehman fail and then like paniced horses they cobbled together that mess known as TARP...a "no questions asked" tax payer bailout. And what did Dodd/Frank do exactly? Introduce oversite into derivatives trading? Boo fucking hoo.

Nothing Obama has done has done anything to spook markets. It's all smoke and mirrors by the very same people that brought you the financial calamity in the first place. They've been making record profits..and hoarding it away.

 

[DontBeStupid]

His solution was to increase the debt even further

The more I think about this comment, the more I am convinced it's not just a biased rant. It's a lie. A complete and total lie. Whatever you think of the Obama stimulus plan, we all know the plan was not simply about increasing the debt.

Why do you feel the need to lie about this? Shouldn't your point of view be able to stand on its own with out lying?

Actually I think that statement has merit. Obama is a spend and tax liberal. Liberal 2.0. Spend us so far into debt, the only answer is obvious. Tax. And whom shall we tax? Well certainly not those who reaped the vast benefit from the Bush tax cuts. No, for them we will cut even more. Payroll cuts for them. Well, now we are spending more and taking in even less??? Fiscal insanity? Nope, Liberal 2.0. Of course all those who are getting tax cuts will agree. TAX THEM!!, TAX THE RICH!!!.

The dream lives on, they want rates above 50% again. They need to avenge that bastard Reagan. Obama is smart, very smart. He knew he couldn't come in tax guns blazing. Spend first, spend fast, spend a lot and keep spending. When you've spent enough you simply cry about revenues. And when you've cut enough for the sheeple, they will follow. This is exactly why I was screaming at the deal done last December. Obama snookered the GOP bigtime.

That's a fascinating view of reality. How do you rationalize the fact that Obama cut spending in 2010 and revenue is at its lowest levels in generations?

Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

 

[Sallow]

His solution was to increase the debt even further

The more I think about this comment, the more I am convinced it's not just a biased rant. It's a lie. A complete and total lie. Whatever you think of the Obama stimulus plan, we all know the plan was not simply about increasing the debt.

Why do you feel the need to lie about this? Shouldn't your point of view be able to stand on its own with out lying?

Actually I think that statement has merit. Obama is a spend and tax liberal. Liberal 2.0. Spend us so far into debt, the only answer is obvious. Tax. And whom shall we tax? Well certainly not those who reaped the vast benefit from the Bush tax cuts. No, for them we will cut even more. Payroll cuts for them. Well, now we are spending more and taking in even less??? Fiscal insanity? Nope, Liberal 2.0. Of course all those who are getting tax cuts will agree. TAX THEM!!, TAX THE RICH!!!.

The dream lives on, they want rates above 50% again. They need to avenge that bastard Reagan. Obama is smart, very smart. He knew he couldn't come in tax guns blazing. Spend first, spend fast, spend a lot and keep spending. When you've spent enough you simply cry about revenues. And when you've cut enough for the sheeple, they will follow. This is exactly why I was screaming at the deal done last December. Obama snookered the GOP bigtime.

Most of the debt was larded on by conservatives. 2 wars, a department of homeland security, medicare part D, no child left behind and a plethora of other expensive stuff like the missile defense program and the joint strike fighter.

Obama got stuck with the check.

 

[cheetah440]

Obama's hyper-diplomatic approach with Republicans has been costly. I also blame the inaction on the democrat controlled congress in the first two years. That being said, I think Obama has made a genuine effort to improve the economy. He was just a little misguided. How this has affected the UE is unclear, but there is no denying that there has been steady (although slight) economic growth in the past 9 months.

The main problem is that Obama is creating a business environment that is uncertain. Are taxes going up, or not. Bush tax custs going up or not. Obamacare, what the hell is the impact. Frank-Dodd regs, what does it mean. Take all of this together and business sits and waits. After a while, business will just get used to this and will start to move. That's sort of what is happening, but no enough. We were destined to have 10-11 UE, nothing he could do about it. But without all the uncertainty that was created, we would have had a more robust recovery. I still think we are facing longterm 6-7%UE. There's just too many uneducated, too many lifetime welfare recipients that really have no chance. The educated, the professionals are doing fine. UE is actually low for this group. The HS dropout or traditional blue collar type of person is struggling and going to struggle for a long time. Factories aren't coming back, efficiency is working. Many of these people can't adjust and adapt. We face long term structural problems that few are really talking about.
Tax policy won't solve it, it will just make some people feel better.

And really..how did he do that? By rescuing the financial industry? By rescuing GM? Remember that Bush let Lehman fail and then like paniced horses they cobbled together that mess known as TARP...a "no questions asked" tax payer bailout. And what did Dodd/Frank do exactly? Introduce oversite into derivatives trading? Boo fucking hoo.

Nothing Obama has done has done anything to spook markets. It's all smoke and mirrors by the very same people that brought you the financial calamity in the first place. They've been making record profits..and hoarding it away.

Let me give you one small anecdote. Take it for what you will, or don't. Hopefully someone will get a laugh. I just re-financed a mortgage on a second property. I had a buddy who owned a mort business for years (until 2009) and for years I could get a refi done very easily. Things are now absurdly difficult. Here is just one bit of the insanity. You now need 2 forms of ID. A DL and either A-SS card, or passport. Oops, passport just expired and SS care? really? Who the fuck has one of those. Hey, how about a birth cert? Nope. So, to the federal building I go to apply for a SS card. Guess what they need and all they need? A drivers license.

Just one bit of the insanity that is the over regulation knee jerk reaction from the Federal bureaucracy.

 

[DontBeStupid]

The main problem is that Obama is creating a business environment that is uncertain. Are taxes going up, or not. Bush tax custs going up or not. Obamacare, what the hell is the impact. Frank-Dodd regs, what does it mean. Take all of this together and business sits and waits. After a while, business will just get used to this and will start to move. That's sort of what is happening, but no enough. We were destined to have 10-11 UE, nothing he could do about it. But without all the uncertainty that was created, we would have had a more robust recovery. I still think we are facing longterm 6-7%UE. There's just too many uneducated, too many lifetime welfare recipients that really have no chance. The educated, the professionals are doing fine. UE is actually low for this group. The HS dropout or traditional blue collar type of person is struggling and going to struggle for a long time. Factories aren't coming back, efficiency is working. Many of these people can't adjust and adapt. We face long term structural problems that few are really talking about.
Tax policy won't solve it, it will just make some people feel better.

And really..how did he do that? By rescuing the financial industry? By rescuing GM? Remember that Bush let Lehman fail and then like paniced horses they cobbled together that mess known as TARP...a "no questions asked" tax payer bailout. And what did Dodd/Frank do exactly? Introduce oversite into derivatives trading? Boo fucking hoo.

Nothing Obama has done has done anything to spook markets. It's all smoke and mirrors by the very same people that brought you the financial calamity in the first place. They've been making record profits..and hoarding it away.

Let me give you one small anecdote. Take it for what you will, or don't. Hopefully someone will get a laugh. I just re-financed a mortgage on a second property. I had a buddy who owned a mort business for years (until 2009) and for years I could get a refi done very easily. Things are now absurdly difficult. Here is just one bit of the insanity. You now need 2 forms of ID. A DL and either A-SS card, or passport. Oops, passport just expired and SS care? really? Who the fuck has one of those. Hey, how about a birth cert? Nope. So, to the federal building I go to apply for a SS card. Guess what they need and all they need? A drivers license.

Just one bit of the insanity that is the over regulation knee jerk reaction from the Federal bureaucracy.

I don't know if it's funny or sad that you think this is a new situation.

 

[cheetah440]

The more I think about this comment, the more I am convinced it's not just a biased rant. It's a lie. A complete and total lie. Whatever you think of the Obama stimulus plan, we all know the plan was not simply about increasing the debt.

Why do you feel the need to lie about this? Shouldn't your point of view be able to stand on its own with out lying?

Actually I think that statement has merit. Obama is a spend and tax liberal. Liberal 2.0. Spend us so far into debt, the only answer is obvious. Tax. And whom shall we tax? Well certainly not those who reaped the vast benefit from the Bush tax cuts. No, for them we will cut even more. Payroll cuts for them. Well, now we are spending more and taking in even less??? Fiscal insanity? Nope, Liberal 2.0. Of course all those who are getting tax cuts will agree. TAX THEM!!, TAX THE RICH!!!.

The dream lives on, they want rates above 50% again. They need to avenge that bastard Reagan. Obama is smart, very smart. He knew he couldn't come in tax guns blazing. Spend first, spend fast, spend a lot and keep spending. When you've spent enough you simply cry about revenues. And when you've cut enough for the sheeple, they will follow. This is exactly why I was screaming at the deal done last December. Obama snookered the GOP bigtime.

Most of the debt was larded on by conservatives. 2 wars, a department of homeland security, medicare part D, no child left behind and a plethora of other expensive stuff like the missile defense program and the joint strike fighter.

Obama got stuck with the check.

Obama got stuck with the dinner bill but he has since ordered a round of drinks for the entire restaurant and every bar in town.

 

[NoNukes]

I wouldn't count on in depth analysis from this crowd, Billy.

But I'll chime in.

I believe of the things that this admin failed to do was make the stimulus large enough to have the impact it might have had.

$780 billion minus about 40% of it which came in form of tax breaks, just wasn't enough money to have a signficcant impact a fibrilating 14 trillion dollar GDP.

The stimulus should have been larger, but could he have gotten more money?

How large should it have been? It grew relentlessly as it was discussed, until they passed about the largest stimulus that had been talked about.
And it still failed.

At the time, economists were saying that it should have been much larger, but there was no way that he could have gotten the amount necessary.

 

[NoNukes]

How large should it have been? It grew relentlessly as it was discussed, until they passed about the largest stimulus that had been talked about.
And it still failed.

There are absolutely zero studies showing the stimulus failed. At best you could find a study that shows a small positive, but you cannot find one that says it failed, because it did not fail.

Repeating that for the Perry fans: the stimulus did NOT fail.

The stimulus should have been closer to $2T and should have been all spending projects with no tax cuts. Had it been that size, we would not be having this conversation.

When you spend a trillion dollars of borrowed money and the situation doesn't improve I find it hard to define that as a success. When you say that you have hundreds of thousands of "shovel ready" jobs and then admit a year later that the jobs didn't actually exist I find it hard to define that as a success. When you have to come back two years later and ask for further funds because without them you will have to lay off public sector workers and cease unemployment benefits I find it hard to define that as a success.

The situation improved because the country was headed into a depression.

 

[The Rabbi]

The stimulus should have been larger, but could he have gotten more money?

How large should it have been? It grew relentlessly as it was discussed, until they passed about the largest stimulus that had been talked about.
And it still failed.

At the time, economists were saying that it should have been much larger, but there was no way that he could have gotten the amount necessary.

Actually 300 economists took out an ad saying the stimulus wouldn't work at all.
What economists were saying it should be larger? Other than Krugman, who's an idiot?

 

[The Rabbi]

There are absolutely zero studies showing the stimulus failed. At best you could find a study that shows a small positive, but you cannot find one that says it failed, because it did not fail.

Repeating that for the Perry fans: the stimulus did NOT fail.

The stimulus should have been closer to $2T and should have been all spending projects with no tax cuts. Had it been that size, we would not be having this conversation.

When you spend a trillion dollars of borrowed money and the situation doesn't improve I find it hard to define that as a success. When you say that you have hundreds of thousands of "shovel ready" jobs and then admit a year later that the jobs didn't actually exist I find it hard to define that as a success. When you have to come back two years later and ask for further funds because without them you will have to lay off public sector workers and cease unemployment benefits I find it hard to define that as a success.

The situation improved because the country was headed into a depression.

Actually the economy had stabilized by then. There was no depression in the future.

 

[Oldstyle]

There are absolutely zero studies showing the stimulus failed. At best you could find a study that shows a small positive, but you cannot find one that says it failed, because it did not fail.

Repeating that for the Perry fans: the stimulus did NOT fail.

The stimulus should have been closer to $2T and should have been all spending projects with no tax cuts. Had it been that size, we would not be having this conversation.

When you spend a trillion dollars of borrowed money and the situation doesn't improve I find it hard to define that as a success. When you say that you have hundreds of thousands of "shovel ready" jobs and then admit a year later that the jobs didn't actually exist I find it hard to define that as a success. When you have to come back two years later and ask for further funds because without them you will have to lay off public sector workers and cease unemployment benefits I find it hard to define that as a success.

The situation improved because the country was headed into a depression.

I would contend that is was TARP that kept us from heading into a depression, NoNukes...the Obama Stimulus kept public sector workers from being laid off, unemployment money going out to the States and the tax rebate let Obama say he'd kept his campaign promise to lower taxes for the middle class even though it was a pittance...it didn't do diddly however when it came to stimulating the private sector.