What's Christian About Denying Service To Any Individual?

[Quantum Windbag]

I keep thinking that Christians are not like the christians I see here on this board or the christians I see ranting about stories like this. There is nothing Christian-like about the hate that is preached here or in this idiotic hate bill.

What do others think? Is this common in churches/religions across the country/world? Is hate the family value that christians now embrace?

Tell me something, if Jesus was all about love, why the fuck did the Pharisees want him dead? Could it be because, like you, they thought his teachings ere full of hate because they challenged the way the government worked?


Mathew 23: “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

What basis, does one build this argument in the first place?

What the radical RW have done in Arizona is prove exactly how UNCHRISTLIKE they really are by trying to pass this law.

Anyone care to show me how that radical bill they were pushing is Christian?

I'd like to know.

MARC, do you not understand that there is no clear definition of what is Christian?

Seeking higher moral ground arguments in political debates is like dancing for architecture.

But, don't all Christians have in common the belief in the teachings of the Bible?

Who would Jesus discriminate against?

Pharisees and Sadducees mostly. You know what I mean, the people, like you, that think that their rules trump the individual relationship with God.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Thank you!

You are thanking the guy for lying to you? Have you ever read the Bible? Are you aware that there is a specific instruction in the New Testament not to associate with some people?

I actually read my Bible every morning. I just finished reading the book of Job and have moved on to the last book of poetry this morning. I also read a chunk of excerpts from Acts...this morning.

Can you point out those 5 Scriptures you're referring to please?

Thanks.

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

What basis, does one build this argument in the first place?

What the radical RW have done in Arizona is prove exactly how UNCHRISTLIKE they really are by trying to pass this law.

Anyone care to show me how that radical bill they were pushing is Christian?

I'd like to know.

What's 'un-Christ like' about it?

If you know anything about Christ's teachings, and I suspect you have but a cursory understanding, if any, you will understand that he taught to love and treat others as yourselves. He taught to turn the other cheek, he taught to minister with love, to heal, to lift up, not to bring down. I note the parable of the Good Samaritan at this time.

I also note that the ONLY time Jesus was recorded getting angry was to a certain sect of people...and these aren't the people you are angry at, in fact, I suspect that the type of people Jesus got angry at are the types of people you revere today.

So yes, nothing, whatsoever is Christlike about that bigoted Bill.

Even if I can't, I can actually prove you are wrong. Paul actually talked about this issue when he talked about food offered to idols, which was sold in the local markets. He pointed out that he, as a Christian, was perfectly free to eat that meat because he knew for a fact that the gods they were sacrificed to were not real. Yet, despite that knowledge, he was quite willing to go hungry himself to ensure that other Christians would not fall into sin.

Yet,. you, being a self righteous jerk wad, aka Pharisee, want to force weaker Christians to follow your rules simply because you know better than they do. If JEsus was actually around right now he would probably sit down to dinner with the LGBT community, but he would call you out for your hypocrisy.

Not that I expect you to acknowledge it, but this is something that you really need to think about.

1 Corinthians 8

Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2 Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3 But whoever loves God is known by God.[a] 4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

BTW, the way the AZ bill was written, it would have made it legal for Muslims to deny service to christians.

Does that little fact matter to any of the christians here?

By the way, you are wrong, but thanks for playing. Also, everyone here has already said they have no problem with that. That is because we have the ability to separate our principles form your stupidity.

 

[Sunshine]

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

What basis, does one build this argument in the first place?

What the radical RW have done in Arizona is prove exactly how UNCHRISTLIKE they really are by trying to pass this law.

Anyone care to show me how that radical bill they were pushing is Christian?

I'd like to know.

The government is secular. Even a Christian has the same rights as everyone else. They cannot be forced to do something that violates their beliefs. Obviously you don't like those beliefs. Well, that's just tough.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sir, do you believe that the government should be able to force discrimination against certain individuals?

Ma'am, do you always argue with imaginary people?

Why are you calling me "ma'am?"

Have I ever, in any way, gave you any indication that I am a racist fuckwad? Or that I approve of government ever forcing anyone to do anything?

If you want to pretend you don't know me, I will pretend you are a Ma'am.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But there is nothing in the Bible, either in the Old or New Testament, that prohibits Christians from associating with people they find undesirable. In fact, Jesus went out and preached to whores. In fact, he touched one and told her to go sin no more. But he didn't refuse to sell her a wedding cake.

In Judaism, it is forbidden for us to eat pork. But actually, it is not forbidden for us to sell pork to someone else. It is also not forbidden for us to sell kosher food to a Muslim, should he want to buy it.

By refusing to sell to someone who is not of your ideology, you are not defending your beliefs at all. You are just making them look ridiculous. I bet that Jesus is doing a facepalm right now.

Thank you! You made the Christian argument so well! Christ was not shy about pointing out sin and telling the person or persons where their error was and that it should be corrected. "Go and sin no more!" Have you read the New Testament? Christ was not quiet about warning others of their behavior and actions and where it would lead them if they didn't change, pick up their cross, and follow Him. Following Him is not promoting sin, it's the opposite of that, so if as a Christian you think the gay lifestyle is a sinful ilfe style, then you are not to support it, you are to teach against it, just as He did. So to be Christ like would be to tell those gay patrons to ask for forgiveness, turn their lives around and follow Christ, not bake them a cake in celebration of their sin. Why is this concept so hard to understand? Why do all non-Christians seem to think that Christ would want Christians advocating or promoting what He would see as sin?

Where you, and others of your clearly radical ilk, are sadly mistaken is mixing government with religion.

Your personal views and beliefs should have absolutely NOTHING to do with the government's policies.

You keep mentioning how Christ spoke out against sin and "pointed out sin" you've posted to "read Matthew, Mark, Luke & John" yet not ONE specific example of these things.

Very suspicious.

I ask you, sir, to pin-point some examples of Christ "pointing out sin" please.

I also thank you in advance.

We leave that to the Pharisees, like you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They show their ignorance every time they start one of these ridiculous threads.

And yet, neither of you has provided even one single verse to back up your claims.

What you are promoting here is just patently un-christian. It goes against the very fabric of what Jeshuah taught. If he is really your Messiah, you sure don't show it very much.

Or do you think that Christians have never sold stuff to sinners in the past? Really? Can you possibly be that naive? Really?

BTW, you might want to look up the real meaning of ignorance. It is not necessarily an insult, but you are using it wrongly.

Thank you!!!

Wow, the Pharisee is applauding the Sadducee. Is there a crucifixion in the works we should know about?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

What basis, does one build this argument in the first place?

What the radical RW have done in Arizona is prove exactly how UNCHRISTLIKE they really are by trying to pass this law.

Anyone care to show me how that radical bill they were pushing is Christian?

I'd like to know.

MARC, do you not understand that there is no clear definition of what is Christian?

Seeking higher moral ground arguments in political debates is like dancing for architecture.

Actually, my brother, there is a clear definition of what a Christian is biblically.

Christ Himself said that the two greatest commandments, which the 10 Commandments hang (aka based on) are Love the Lord God w/all your heart and love thy neighbor as thyself.

See Matthew 22:37-40 KJV

Paul further illustrates what exactly is a Christian in the fruit of the Spirit illustration found in Galatians 5:22-23

I should have known you were as bad at understanding Scripture as you are everything else.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

When I worked for my first job, we could deny service to any individual. It was always a right in our state.

If you are running a business like a restaurant or movie theater, would you want to have a customer bring in a baby and scream if the dinner plate was $100 a plate and you had paying customers? Or would you want to operate a movie theater if a customer brought in a baby that would cry during a movie and you had customers not be able to hear the movie? Would you kick that customer out or refund 1,000 other customers?

How long would you stay in business?

When was the last time you heard of a lady w/a screaming baby getting kicked out of an eating establishment b/c of the screaming baby?

There was a thread where plenty of people were outraged when it didn't happen, so it must be a pretty common occurrence. That might be why you never read about it, just saying.

 

[Newby]

I keep thinking that Christians are not like the christians I see here on this board or the christians I see ranting about stories like this. There is nothing Christian-like about the hate that is preached here or in this idiotic hate bill.

What do others think? Is this common in churches/religions across the country/world? Is hate the family value that christians now embrace?

Tell me something, if Jesus was all about love, why the fuck did the Pharisees want him dead? Could it be because, like you, they thought his teachings ere full of hate because they challenged the way the government worked?


Mathew 23: “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

I don't know where people like macartl get their concepts of Jesus from, I guess just from reading snippets here and there on liberal websites. If he has truly read the Bible, he would understand that Jesus was not all sweetness and light, he was deadly serious about what he taught and preached and thought many he dealth with fools, and did not hesitate to tell them so.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When I worked for my first job, we could deny service to any individual. It was always a right in our state.

If you are running a business like a restaurant or movie theater, would you want to have a customer bring in a baby and scream if the dinner plate was $100 a plate and you had paying customers? Or would you want to operate a movie theater if a customer brought in a baby that would cry during a movie and you had customers not be able to hear the movie? Would you kick that customer out or refund 1,000 other customers?

How long would you stay in business?

When was the last time you heard of a lady w/a screaming baby getting kicked out of an eating establishment b/c of the screaming baby?

Our staff had to kick someone out because of multiple complaints which may have been high as 11 or 12. Our boss didn't like that and wanted to smooth things over with the customer.

If you had 12 complaints, who do you side with? The one person or the twelve people?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When was the last time you heard of a lady w/a screaming baby getting kicked out of an eating establishment b/c of the screaming baby?

Our staff had to kick someone out because of multiple complaints which may have been high as 11 or 12. Our boss didn't like that and wanted to smooth things over with the customer.

If you had 12 complaints, who do you side with? The one person or the twelve people?

Which is exactly why the bill was vetoed.

Individual businesses don't want to turn away business. Nor does the state.

The worst of this is that it was not vetoed because its morally and ethically repugnant to discriminate against our fellow Americans.

Not to mention that pesky First Amendment that Brewer and other homophobes would love to see overturned.

No, the bill was vetoed because Brewer is a scared little bitch politician.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I keep thinking that Christians are not like the christians I see here on this board or the christians I see ranting about stories like this. There is nothing Christian-like about the hate that is preached here or in this idiotic hate bill.

What do others think? Is this common in churches/religions across the country/world? Is hate the family value that christians now embrace?

Tell me something, if Jesus was all about love, why the fuck did the Pharisees want him dead? Could it be because, like you, they thought his teachings ere full of hate because they challenged the way the government worked?


Mathew 23: “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

I don't know where people like macartl get their concepts of Jesus from, I guess just from reading snippets here and there on liberal websites. If he has truly read the Bible, he would understand that Jesus was not all sweetness and light, he was deadly serious about what he taught and preached and thought many he dealth with fools, and did not hesitate to tell them so.

Some churches teach that way because they don't want to offend anyone.

The problem is that the Gospel is offensive to the world, which is why Jesus taught that he came to bring a sword.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You are thanking the guy for lying to you? Have you ever read the Bible? Are you aware that there is a specific instruction in the New Testament not to associate with some people?

I actually read my Bible every morning. I just finished reading the book of Job and have moved on to the last book of poetry this morning. I also read a chunk of excerpts from Acts...this morning.

Can you point out those 5 Scriptures you're referring to please?

Thanks.

If you know anything about Christ's teachings, and I suspect you have but a cursory understanding, if any, you will understand that he taught to love and treat others as yourselves. He taught to turn the other cheek, he taught to minister with love, to heal, to lift up, not to bring down. I note the parable of the Good Samaritan at this time.

I also note that the ONLY time Jesus was recorded getting angry was to a certain sect of people...and these aren't the people you are angry at, in fact, I suspect that the type of people Jesus got angry at are the types of people you revere today.

So yes, nothing, whatsoever is Christlike about that bigoted Bill.

Even if I can't, I can actually prove you are wrong. Paul actually talked about this issue when he talked about food offered to idols, which was sold in the local markets. He pointed out that he, as a Christian, was perfectly free to eat that meat because he knew for a fact that the gods they were sacrificed to were not real. Yet, despite that knowledge, he was quite willing to go hungry himself to ensure that other Christians would not fall into sin.

Yet,. you, being a self righteous jerk wad, aka Pharisee, want to force weaker Christians to follow your rules simply because you know better than they do. If JEsus was actually around right now he would probably sit down to dinner with the LGBT community, but he would call you out for your hypocrisy.

Not that I expect you to acknowledge it, but this is something that you really need to think about.

1 Corinthians 8
____________________________
That is how I interpret it, Quantum. It is a matter of conscience. ( no one should be forced to act against their own conscience) Very good example of scripture - in my opinion.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Thank you! You made the Christian argument so well! Christ was not shy about pointing out sin and telling the person or persons where their error was and that it should be corrected. "Go and sin no more!" Have you read the New Testament? Christ was not quiet about warning others of their behavior and actions and where it would lead them if they didn't change, pick up their cross, and follow Him. Following Him is not promoting sin, it's the opposite of that, so if as a Christian you think the gay lifestyle is a sinful ilfe style, then you are not to support it, you are to teach against it, just as He did. So to be Christ like would be to tell those gay patrons to ask for forgiveness, turn their lives around and follow Christ, not bake them a cake in celebration of their sin. Why is this concept so hard to understand? Why do all non-Christians seem to think that Christ would want Christians advocating or promoting what He would see as sin?

I agree with you 50%. By telling people, if you think they are sinning, that they need to repent, is one thing. But to refuse to sell to them because you consider them a sinner, that is something entirely different.

And it is eerily reminiscent of the horror dreams of the Book of Revelations, where it is prophesied that one without the mark of the Beast cannot buy or sell....

How ironic that some Christians have taken this horror prophesy to use as their own model. How ironic that they would use the machinations of the devil for their own purposes.

And yes, I have read the NT, probably many times more than most people.

Again, I state, with this kind of logic, if Christians are now predicating whether to sell a product to someone based on their estimation of the amount of sin in a person's life, then I would suspect that many Christian businesses are going to close for lack of sufficient business.

This is what happens when people mix religion and business.

It is just batshit crazy.

G-d bless you.

What's batshit crazy, are your illogical conclusions...

Don't you understand what you posted? What does having the 'mark of the beast so you can buy or sell' have to do with the topic at all? What that means is that at some point you will have to carry a 'mark', whatever form that may take in order to partake in the consumer market, and by taking that mark you're disavowing God. So the choice for Christians would be to take the 'mark' and disavow God, or not take the mark and not be able to participate in the consumer market.

Well, if you take just enough time, Sailor Boy, I bet you can connect the dots...

 

[Statistikhengst]

They show their ignorance every time they start one of these ridiculous threads.

And yet, neither of you has provided even one single verse to back up your claims.

What you are promoting here is just patently un-christian. It goes against the very fabric of what Jeshuah taught. If he is really your Messiah, you sure don't show it very much.

Or do you think that Christians have never sold stuff to sinners in the past? Really? Can you possibly be that naive? Really?

BTW, you might want to look up the real meaning of ignorance. It is not necessarily an insult, but you are using it wrongly.

I don't know what Bible you've read, but it's clearly not the same one I've read. Read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Jesus did not take sin lightly, so I don't know where people such as yourself come up with this distorted image of what He stood for.

You are absolutely right! Jeshua did not take sin lightly. In fact, Jeshuah said "I have come not to take away even one whit of the law (Halakha), but rather, to add to it".

So, Halakha has 613 commandments, many of which are prohibitions.

If you are so into making sure to rebuke people for their sins by refusing to do SECULAR business with them then you also cannot sell to people:

who have lusted in their hearts
slept with another man's woman
are slovenly
are obese
have ever walked more than 15 paces in the rain on the sabbath
have ever used an electronic device on the sabbath
have ever written a single word on the sabbath
who smoke
who drink any alcohol
have ever taken the Lord's name in vain
have ever eaten shrimp
have ever mixed milk products with meat products at the same meal
have ever gossiped about anyone else


for you see, all of those sins are equal in value to the sin of "Homosexuality".

Enjoy selling your product to: NO ONE, because by the time you are done with your litmus test, no one will pass and by then, they will buy from someone else and you will be broke.

It's really that simple.

 

[Statistikhengst]

So would you take your kids to Disney on Gay Day and be accosted with different values that you found offensive?

Businesses have signs on their door that says, "no solicitation". When you take your politics to an establishment, you are soliciting or promoting. Should I then sue businesses that have "no solicitation" on their door because they are discriminating?

Or is it private property and they can do what they want? Should the KKK be allowed to burn a cross on your lawn or is it private property?

Are you serious?

Why would I care if gays were at a business where I was? Hell, they are a lot less likely to accost me than the damn bible thumpers. But, I also would not care if the very objectionable bible thumpers were at a business at the same time as me as long as they left me alone.

The rest of your post has no bearing on this question.

I was a safety in elementary school and the kids would run from the bus to class and there was a rule against running in the halls so we would tell them to stop and they wouldn't so we would tell them to go back and walk and the principal called us to his office and said it was against their civil rights to tell them to go back and walk so we were like "uh oh, we're in trouble". We were told to stop.

If you are a baker and you are asked to write something obscene on a birthday cake, I feel it is a violating of the baker's civil rights to write something against his morals. You might call that discrimination. It is private property. What if I want to come and write on the walls of your house? Is that okay?

Were you planning to eat those walls like people eat cake?

 

[Statistikhengst]

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

What basis, does one build this argument in the first place?

What the radical RW have done in Arizona is prove exactly how UNCHRISTLIKE they really are by trying to pass this law.

Anyone care to show me how that radical bill they were pushing is Christian?

I'd like to know.

The government is secular. Even a Christian has the same rights as everyone else. They cannot be forced to do something that violates their beliefs. Obviously you don't like those beliefs. Well, that's just tough.

That posting was undesirable.

So, if a christian fighter pilot is assigned to a two man plane where the other pilot is non-christian and even (gasp!!) gay, the that pilot can decide to eject in mid-flight, amirite? Because his beliefs are more important than the life of his non-christian colleague, right? Remember, the Airforce is SECULAR. Just like the Gubbermint.

Your argument is just totally illogical.

We are talking about Christians conducting SECULAR business. A baker bakes cakes for all sorts of occasions, most of them secular. My G-d, if you Christians are gonna be that picky about your clientele and start judging whether a customer will be served based on your litmus test of them (Lord, what hubris), you may end up seeing lots of starving Christian businessmen who suddenly discover they have no clientele at all. But hey, you will have won the moral battle.

 

[daws101]