When did Junk Plans become Junk Plans

[Flopper]

What those are what they represented were never quantified either.

You could have hospitalization with a massive deductable...would that be junk ?

And not all the plans that didn't qualify were not junk.

I go back to my OP.

Obama and co. were not as concerened about junk plans as they were concerned about finding something to deflect the fact that AAF was caught in the BIG LIE.

Hospitalization only would be considered under insured and would not meet the requirements of the law. I think calling it junk insurance would be a pretty loose use of the term. Most people consider junk insurance as insurance that pays little or nothing for major medical problems. A high deductible plan should not be considered either under-insurance or junk insurance unless the the deductible is so high as to make the plan of limited use for most people in paying for a major medical problem.

Thank you.

But that isn't what Obammy did.

He and his army of pricks basically said anything that did not qualify was junk. One leftist asshole on a talk show said anyone who bought a plan that didn't qualify was a "sucker".

It was a diversion to get away from the BIG LIE as told by the BIG LIAR and his army of ALMOST AS BIG LIARS.

I wonder if Al Franken will add a Chapter to his "book" on this one. Somehow I doubt it.

I appreciate your candor.

What Obama was aiming at during the early part of his campaign was single payer. Obama said, "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody." Once congressmen convinced him that there was no way of getting single payer passed, he settle on a private insurance with added regulations. Unfortunately, he didn't modify his rhetoric much and continued to stick by his campaign promises.

I don't like Obamacare but unlike you, I consider it better than nothing.

 

[Listening]

Hospitalization only would be considered under insured and would not meet the requirements of the law. I think calling it junk insurance would be a pretty loose use of the term. Most people consider junk insurance as insurance that pays little or nothing for major medical problems. A high deductible plan should not be considered either under-insurance or junk insurance unless the the deductible is so high as to make the plan of limited use for most people in paying for a major medical problem.

Thank you.

But that isn't what Obammy did.

He and his army of pricks basically said anything that did not qualify was junk. One leftist asshole on a talk show said anyone who bought a plan that didn't qualify was a "sucker".

It was a diversion to get away from the BIG LIE as told by the BIG LIAR and his army of ALMOST AS BIG LIARS.

I wonder if Al Franken will add a Chapter to his "book" on this one. Somehow I doubt it.

I appreciate your candor.

What Obama was aiming at during the early part of his campaign was single payer. Obama said, "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody." Once congressmen convinced him that there was no way of getting single payer passed, he settle on a private insurance with added regulations. Unfortunately, he didn't modify his rhetoric much and continued to stick by his campaign promises.

I don't like Obamacare but unlike you, I consider it better than nothing.

He changed his rhetoric...."you can keep your plan if you like it".

Face it...this Affirmative Action Failure is also a liar.

He has no idea of just how sad he looks to many of us (in terms of being a fish out of water). I recall watching GWB in debates against Kerry and thinking "This is is the moron I'm going to vote for"....now he looks smart.

 

[Trajan]

I doubt that there were any public discussions by Obama or Congress in which "junk" insurance was discussed per se. There have been many discussions about insurance that leaves people severely under-insured which includes junk insurance. Requiring that health insurance include hospitalization including surgery, drug coverage, emergency services, rehabilitation, etc will eliminate most of the junk insurance but of course not all.

ALL obamacare plans are extreme JUNK, especially the lower costs ones - they do not cover what people need and they have extreme deductibles and co-pays.

the ones which are a little bit better - are simply the road to bankruptcy if somebody is chronically ill and needs expensive medications and procedures.

or just can simply DIE - because the needed medications are NOT COVERED by this crappy junk insurance plans under obamacare.

Unless you qualify for a subsidy, there's no need to buy off the exchange. You can buy directly from the insurance companies and generally you will have a wider choice of both plans and insurers. If your income is low enough, you can quality for not only a big reduction in premium but a reduction in out of pocket cost if you buy through the exchange.

first- except in DC, those "citizens" must use the Marketplace exchange.

second- if they do that, the aca will fail.....not that that matters...why do you think they are cancelling the plans?

In general, health policies effective Jan. 1, whether sold on the exchanges or off, must comply with the Affordable Care Act. That means they have to offer the same menu of essential benefits, like drug coverage and maternity care, and can’t deny you coverage if you’re already sick. And, insurers who sell policies both on and off the exchanges must sell the same plan for the same price.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/y...rent-limited-to-obamacare-exchanges.html?_r=0

third - if a NON grandfathered plan or any new privately purchased plans includes ANY , even one of the EHB's,( essential health benefits) they can impose NO annual or life time limits on the dollar values of those benefits...helllllloooo... ...apparently you didn't know that, you know why that and the rule for non-denial of coverage for precondition, is important and pulls the pin on your offer to buy 'privately' .....right?


forth-

here from the link-

Another possible reason for shopping off the exchanges is if the networks offered by the plans you find there don’t include your own doctor or hospital, said Sara R. Collins, a health policy expert at the Commonwealth Fund. In some cases, insurers are seeking to control costs by narrowing the networks of plans offered on the exchanges.


now for extra points; what did Ezekiel Emmanuel say last Sunday about this?

 

[Flopper]

Florida Blue is a wholly owned subsidiary of Florida Blue Cross Blue Shield and those listed above are the only companies on the exchange for Florida. So if you live in Florida and buy through the exchange, you will buy from one of those companies. Check it out.
www.healthcare.gov

I LIVE in Florida.

That is why I KNOW.

Florida Blue is the only insurance company which is enrolled in obvamacare.

all others ARE NOT.

In Colorado we have 5 on the Obamacare insurance exchange. Good Luck with your premiums if you only have one!

The Federal Government at work again!--

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NPzLBSBzPI]Lucy's Famous Chocolate Scene - YouTube[/ame]

This reminds me of how well Obamacare is working right now--

There is some protection against this. Under the 80/20 rule, if the insurance company spends less than 80 percent of premiums on medical care it must rebate the excess. Last year insurance companies refunded 1.1 billion dollars. In most counties where there is only one company listed, there is a very small market for individual insurance.

I counted 9 companies offering over 100 plans in Denver.

http://www.valuepenguin.com/ppaca/exchanges/co

 

[Flopper]

first- except in DC, those "citizens" must use the Marketplace exchange.

second- if they do that, the aca will fail.....not that that matters...why do you think they are cancelling the plans?

No, you don't have to buy individual insurance off the exchange. You can purchase plans from the carrier or their brokers. However you can only get a subsidy by buying off the exchange. The only people I'm aware of that must buy off the exchange are congressmen and staff. All plans must meet ACA requirements unless they have been grandfathered in. Grandfathered plans are not being marketed in 2014.

There are two reason plans were cancelled. They did not meet all ACA requirements and the insurer did not want to grandfather the plan because they could not be marketed in 2014 and it could not be changed, either premium or benefits.

http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Florida Blue is a wholly owned subsidiary of Florida Blue Cross Blue Shield and those listed above are the only companies on the exchange for Florida. So if you live in Florida and buy through the exchange, you will buy from one of those companies. Check it out.
www.healthcare.gov

I LIVE in Florida.

That is why I KNOW.

Florida Blue is the only insurance company which is enrolled in obvamacare.

all others ARE NOT.

No, that's not correct. Maybe in the county you live in there's only one carrier listed but that's not true for the state. If you check http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ chances are you will find only a few companies listed for your county possibly only one plus all companies are not on the exchange.

Click on the line below. It's from healthcare.gov for the state of Florida, Hillsborough County. On the left-hand side of the screen you will see a listing of all insurance companies listed on the exchange for that county. The number of companies will vary by county.

https://www.healthcare.gov/find-pre...type=med&state=FL&county=Hillsborough&age0=35

For Hillsborough County:
Humana Medical Plan, Inc.
Florida Blue (BlueCross BlueShield FL)
CoventryOne
Florida Blue HMO (a BlueCross BlueShield FL company)
Aetna
Cigna Health and Life Insurance Company

For Miami Dade there 9 companies companies on the exchange. I thought there were only 5 companies in the state that were listed but apparently there are more.

In some rural counties there maybe only one company serving that county. This happens in most states because the individual health insurance market isn't large enough to support a number of carriers in all counties.

Yesterday you said there were only 5 companies selling insurance on the exchange for the entire state of Florida, what happened?

 

[oreo]

Hospitalization only would be considered under insured and would not meet the requirements of the law. I think calling it junk insurance would be a pretty loose use of the term. Most people consider junk insurance as insurance that pays little or nothing for major medical problems. A high deductible plan should not be considered either under-insurance or junk insurance unless the the deductible is so high as to make the plan of limited use for most people in paying for a major medical problem.

Thank you.

But that isn't what Obammy did.

He and his army of pricks basically said anything that did not qualify was junk. One leftist asshole on a talk show said anyone who bought a plan that didn't qualify was a "sucker".

It was a diversion to get away from the BIG LIE as told by the BIG LIAR and his army of ALMOST AS BIG LIARS.

I wonder if Al Franken will add a Chapter to his "book" on this one. Somehow I doubt it.

I appreciate your candor.

What Obama was aiming at during the early part of his campaign was single payer. Obama said, "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody." Once congressmen convinced him that there was no way of getting single payer passed, he settle on a private insurance with added regulations. Unfortunately, he didn't modify his rhetoric much and continued to stick by his campaign promises.

I don't like Obamacare but unlike you, I consider it better than nothing.

Have you signed up yet and pushed the BUY button? If it's better than nothing--I have to assume you don't have medical insurance?

 

[Flopper]

I LIVE in Florida.

That is why I KNOW.

Florida Blue is the only insurance company which is enrolled in obvamacare.

all others ARE NOT.

No, that's not correct. Maybe in the county you live in there's only one carrier listed but that's not true for the state. If you check http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ chances are you will find only a few companies listed for your county possibly only one plus all companies are not on the exchange.

Click on the line below. It's from healthcare.gov for the state of Florida, Hillsborough County. On the left-hand side of the screen you will see a listing of all insurance companies listed on the exchange for that county. The number of companies will vary by county.

https://www.healthcare.gov/find-pre...type=med&state=FL&county=Hillsborough&age0=35

For Hillsborough County:
Humana Medical Plan, Inc.
Florida Blue (BlueCross BlueShield FL)
CoventryOne
Florida Blue HMO (a BlueCross BlueShield FL company)
Aetna
Cigna Health and Life Insurance Company

For Miami Dade there 9 companies companies on the exchange. I thought there were only 5 companies in the state that were listed but apparently there are more.

In some rural counties there maybe only one company serving that county. This happens in most states because the individual health insurance market isn't large enough to support a number of carriers in all counties.

Yesterday you said there were only 5 companies selling insurance on the exchange for the entire state of Florida, what happened?

As I said in a previous post, I was wrong. The county I was looking at had 5 insurance companies listed and I assumed that this was for the entire state. For Hillsobrough County which includes Tampa there are 6. In Miami, there're 9.

 

[oreo]

first- except in DC, those "citizens" must use the Marketplace exchange.

second- if they do that, the aca will fail.....not that that matters...why do you think they are cancelling the plans?

No, you don't have to buy individual insurance off the exchange. You can purchase plans from the carrier or their brokers. However you can only get a subsidy by buying off the exchange. The only people I'm aware of that must buy off the exchange are congressmen and staff. All plans must meet ACA requirements unless they have been grandfathered in. Grandfathered plans are not being marketed in 2014.

There are two reason plans were cancelled. They did not meet all ACA requirements and the insurer did not want to grandfather the plan because they could not be marketed in 2014 and it could not be changed, either premium or benefits.

http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/

No not quite correct. After OBAMA promised the American public that they could keep their plans if they liked them--we had democrats writing mandates for insurers to follow--to be entered onto the exchange. Democrats had the opportunity to grandfather the plans in--on a vote in September 2010 and they voted AGAINST it--thereby insuring that all these plans would no longer exist. IOW--the insurance companies didn't do it--Obama and Democrats did it.

Senate Democrats voted unanimously three years ago to support the Obamacare rule that is largely responsible for some of the health insurance cancellation letters that are going out. In September 2010, Senate Republicans brought a resolution to the floor to block implementation of the grandfather rule, warning that it would result in canceled policies and violate President Barack Obama’s promise that people could keep their insurance if they liked it. “The District of Columbia is an island surrounded by reality. Only in the District of Columbia could you get away with telling the people if you like what you have you can keep it, and then pass regulations six months later that do just the opposite and figure that people are going to ignore it.

Flashback: Senate Democrats Killed 'Keep Your Plan' Enforcement Bill in 2010 - Guy Benson

 

[Amelia]

Hospitalization only would be considered under insured and would not meet the requirements of the law. I think calling it junk insurance would be a pretty loose use of the term. Most people consider junk insurance as insurance that pays little or nothing for major medical problems. A high deductible plan should not be considered either under-insurance or junk insurance unless the the deductible is so high as to make the plan of limited use for most people in paying for a major medical problem.

Thank you.

But that isn't what Obammy did.

He and his army of pricks basically said anything that did not qualify was junk. One leftist asshole on a talk show said anyone who bought a plan that didn't qualify was a "sucker".

It was a diversion to get away from the BIG LIE as told by the BIG LIAR and his army of ALMOST AS BIG LIARS.

I wonder if Al Franken will add a Chapter to his "book" on this one. Somehow I doubt it.

I appreciate your candor.

What Obama was aiming at during the early part of his campaign was single payer. Obama said, "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody." Once congressmen convinced him that there was no way of getting single payer passed, he settle on a private insurance with added regulations. Unfortunately, he didn't modify his rhetoric much and continued to stick by his campaign promises.

I don't like Obamacare but unlike you, I consider it better than nothing.

That single-payer quote was from 2003. During the presidential campaign he had the gall to claim that he never said he was a proponent of single payer. If the media had treated lies like that from him the way they treated other people, America would be healthier now.

 

[Vox]

I doubt that there were any public discussions by Obama or Congress in which "junk" insurance was discussed per se. There have been many discussions about insurance that leaves people severely under-insured which includes junk insurance. Requiring that health insurance include hospitalization including surgery, drug coverage, emergency services, rehabilitation, etc will eliminate most of the junk insurance but of course not all.

ALL obamacare plans are extreme JUNK, especially the lower costs ones - they do not cover what people need and they have extreme deductibles and co-pays.

the ones which are a little bit better - are simply the road to bankruptcy if somebody is chronically ill and needs expensive medications and procedures.

or just can simply DIE - because the needed medications are NOT COVERED by this crappy junk insurance plans under obamacare.

Unless you qualify for a subsidy, there's no need to buy off the exchange. You can buy directly from the insurance companies and generally you will have a wider choice of both plans and insurers. If your income is low enough, you can quality for not only a big reduction in premium but a reduction in out of pocket cost if you buy through the exchange.

of course. - for the first bolded.

not true - for the second.

 

[oreo]

Thank you.

But that isn't what Obammy did.

He and his army of pricks basically said anything that did not qualify was junk. One leftist asshole on a talk show said anyone who bought a plan that didn't qualify was a "sucker".

It was a diversion to get away from the BIG LIE as told by the BIG LIAR and his army of ALMOST AS BIG LIARS.

I wonder if Al Franken will add a Chapter to his "book" on this one. Somehow I doubt it.

I appreciate your candor.

What Obama was aiming at during the early part of his campaign was single payer. Obama said, "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody." Once congressmen convinced him that there was no way of getting single payer passed, he settle on a private insurance with added regulations. Unfortunately, he didn't modify his rhetoric much and continued to stick by his campaign promises.

I don't like Obamacare but unlike you, I consider it better than nothing.

That single-payer quote was from 2003. During the presidential campaign he had the gall to claim that he never said he was a proponent of single payer. If the media had treated lies like that from him the way they treated other people, America would be healthier now.

Well--the media in this country has been in a love affair with Barack Obama. Many of them continue to be.

 

[Amelia]

ALL obamacare plans are extreme JUNK, especially the lower costs ones - they do not cover what people need and they have extreme deductibles and co-pays.

the ones which are a little bit better - are simply the road to bankruptcy if somebody is chronically ill and needs expensive medications and procedures.

or just can simply DIE - because the needed medications are NOT COVERED by this crappy junk insurance plans under obamacare.

Unless you qualify for a subsidy, there's no need to buy off the exchange. You can buy directly from the insurance companies and generally you will have a wider choice of both plans and insurers. If your income is low enough, you can quality for not only a big reduction in premium but a reduction in out of pocket cost if you buy through the exchange.

of course. - for the first bolded.

not true - for the second.

If you buy a silver plan it appears to be true.

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/cost-sharing-reduction/

 

[Flopper]

Thank you.

But that isn't what Obammy did.

He and his army of pricks basically said anything that did not qualify was junk. One leftist asshole on a talk show said anyone who bought a plan that didn't qualify was a "sucker".

It was a diversion to get away from the BIG LIE as told by the BIG LIAR and his army of ALMOST AS BIG LIARS.

I wonder if Al Franken will add a Chapter to his "book" on this one. Somehow I doubt it.

I appreciate your candor.

What Obama was aiming at during the early part of his campaign was single payer. Obama said, "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody." Once congressmen convinced him that there was no way of getting single payer passed, he settle on a private insurance with added regulations. Unfortunately, he didn't modify his rhetoric much and continued to stick by his campaign promises.

I don't like Obamacare but unlike you, I consider it better than nothing.

Have you signed up yet and pushed the BUY button? If it's better than nothing--I have to assume you don't have medical insurance?

No, I have insurance and I have also had to buy individual insurance for 5 year prior to the ACA. I have just helped my son in Florida purchase insurance off the Federal exchange and my daughter in Washington off the Washington exchange.

So many people are criticizing the plans and have no I idea what the market looked like prior to the ACA. I suppose they're comparing it to their employer sponsored plans which are usually superior in almost all aspects. In general, premiums are higher in the individual market than they were but the coverage is better. In rural areas where there isn't much demand for individual plans, there's not much to choose from but these area's have always had little competition.

The ACA in the individual market is a godsend for those with pre-existing conditions, those that are seriously ill and those whose income qualifies them for Expanded Medicaid. For those whose income is a bit above Medicaid limits, subsidies on the exchanges will cover over 90% of the cost of insurance and will reduce out of pocket maximums. For those with a little higher income, it will be a wash. For those that don't qualify for subsidies, their costs will rise, how much depends on their state and county because competition and laws vary considerably between states.

 

[Listening]

Hey,

What happened to our 2,500/year savings ?

 

[Flopper]

Hey,

What happened to our 2,500/year savings ?

It paid for my kid's insurance who can't seem to earn a decent living. Obama said he could save $2500 but he didn't say for who.

 

[Listening]

Hey,

What happened to our 2,500/year savings ?

It paid for my kid's insurance who can't seem to earn a decent living. Obama said he could save $2500 but he didn't say for who.

I'm afraid that is a little weak. He pretty much indicated he'd "work with our employers" to save us that money. You know everyone in his camp or who listened to him wasn't thinking (that's for somebody else).

C'mon.

 

[Amelia]

Hey,

What happened to our 2,500/year savings ?

It paid for my kid's insurance who can't seem to earn a decent living. Obama said he could save $2500 but he didn't say for who.

He did. He said the savings would be for the "typical family".

 

[Flopper]

Hey,

What happened to our 2,500/year savings ?

It paid for my kid's insurance who can't seem to earn a decent living. Obama said he could save $2500 but he didn't say for who.

I'm afraid that is a little weak. He pretty much indicated he'd "work with our employers" to save us that money. You know everyone in his camp or who listened to him wasn't thinking (that's for somebody else).

C'mon.

You asked and that's where it went. My son's subsidy is just about $2500/yr.

"A system where we're gonna work with your employers to lower your premiums by up to $2,500 per family per year.
August 6, 2008

He said this over and over in 2008. However, that was long before any legislation was created. Also notice that he kept using the phrase "up to".

FREEDOM EDEN: Obama: 20 Promises for $2,500

 

[Amelia]

It paid for my kid's insurance who can't seem to earn a decent living. Obama said he could save $2500 but he didn't say for who.

I'm afraid that is a little weak. He pretty much indicated he'd "work with our employers" to save us that money. You know everyone in his camp or who listened to him wasn't thinking (that's for somebody else).

C'mon.

You asked and that's where it went. My son's subsidy is just about $2500/yr.

"A system where we're gonna work with your employers to lower your premiums by up to $2,500 per family per year.
August 6, 2008

He said this over and over in 2008. However, that was long before any legislation was created. Also notice that he kept using the phrase "up to".

FREEDOM EDEN: Obama: 20 Promises for $2,500

On at least 3 occasions he did not use the phrase "up to".

No matter what, the promise would imply some savings for "typical families". Not increases.