When Do We Shout "Racism"?

[Correll]

That is utter nonsense.

That is what the 1% is telling you so you don't vote for Trump, who might upset their apple cart.

THEY want cheap Third World Labor to profit from, overseas and here.

THEY want Free Trade.

Actually, the guy who is doing the best job of talking me out of voting for Donald Trump is Donald Trump. The guy is his own worst enemy.

Nope.

This is what Obama ACTUALLY said... by the way..

And I say to them, "Listen, if you hear somebody using a racial epithet, if you hear somebody who's anti-Semitic, if you see an injustice, I want you to speak out. And I want you to be firm and clear and I want you to protect people who may not have voices themselves. I want you to be somebody who's strong and sees themselves as somebody who's looking out for the vulnerable."

But I tell 'em — "I want you also to be able to listen. I don't want you to think that a display of your strength is simply shutting other people up. And that part of your ability to bring about change is going to be by engagement and understanding the viewpoints and the arguments of the other side." And so when I hear, for example, you know, folks on college campuses saying, "We're not going to allow somebody to speak on our campus because we disagree with their ideas or we feel threatened by their ideas —" you know, I think that's a recipe for dogmatism. And I think you're not going to be as effective. And so, but I want to be clear here 'cause, and it's a tough issue because, you know, there are two values that I care about.

I care about civil rights and I care about kids not being discriminated against or having swastikas painted on their doors or nooses hung — thinking it's a joke. I think it's entirely appropriate for — any institution, including universities, to say, "Don't walk around in blackface. It offends people. Don't wear a headdress and beat your chest if Native American students have said, you know, 'This hurts us. This bothers us." There's nothing wrong with that.

Sounds to me like he really doesn't support your position, Macky.

Obama, in this quote, and thank you for posting the WHOLE thing and not just the bolded part, is trying to have it both ways, so that the listener(s) can hear what they want to hear, ie that Obama is agreeing with them.


The bolded part is there so that you can think that Obama is agreeing with you. He knows that that is what you think of when you think about people who are tired of Political Correctness. You think that they want to be able to be rude, racist assholes and not care about who they offend.

THIS PART HERE,

"I want you also to be able to listen. I don't want you to think that a display of your strength is simply shutting other people up. And that part of your ability to bring about change is going to be by engagement and understanding the viewpoints and the arguments of the other side." And so when I hear, for example, you know, folks on college campuses saying, "We're not going to allow somebody to speak on our campus because we disagree with their ideas or we feel threatened by their ideas —" you know, I think that's a recipe for dogmatism."



Is where he gave Mac what Mac wanted to hear.

Mac thinks of Political Correctness as a tool to shout down, marginalize and suppress other voices and points of view.


The question is, which is the real Obama?

Actually, in this thread the question is, which view of Political Correctness and the way the accusation of Racism is used today is correct?

There ARE a few sports teams with Native American names were the fans dress up for games, and people complain.

There is also plenty of recent examples of "protestors" using various tactics from threats of lawsuits to literal bloody mob violence to shut down voices that they don't want to be heard.

Mac hears you when you talk about your view that that is what his anti-PCness is about.


You don't hear him when he says that that is NOT what he is about.

YOu don't seem to hear him when he talks about the use of PC to shut down voices and viewpoints.


And that is not something that just happens in him imagination.

It is seen quite often, and is a GROWING PROBLEM as seen most recently in San Jose.

Joe/Jake thinks that PC is about not being able to tell dirty jokes at work. I'm not kidding, he said it multiple times on this thread.

You can't reason with a binary mind like that, even with dozens of liberals -- including Obama -- in your supporting evidence. He just denies it all.

"I don't see it. I don't. It's not there. It's not."

His little world is very, very small and very, very quiet. And VERY angry.
.

I've been seeing that too.

It is a clever defense tactic by the Hard Left.

Joe doesn't even realize that he was told that this is what the problem is, by the same people who want to shut down opposing voices and viewpoints.

He accepts it without question.

 

[Mac1958]

That is utter nonsense.

That is what the 1% is telling you so you don't vote for Trump, who might upset their apple cart.

THEY want cheap Third World Labor to profit from, overseas and here.

THEY want Free Trade.

Actually, the guy who is doing the best job of talking me out of voting for Donald Trump is Donald Trump. The guy is his own worst enemy.

Nope.

This is what Obama ACTUALLY said... by the way..

And I say to them, "Listen, if you hear somebody using a racial epithet, if you hear somebody who's anti-Semitic, if you see an injustice, I want you to speak out. And I want you to be firm and clear and I want you to protect people who may not have voices themselves. I want you to be somebody who's strong and sees themselves as somebody who's looking out for the vulnerable."

But I tell 'em — "I want you also to be able to listen. I don't want you to think that a display of your strength is simply shutting other people up. And that part of your ability to bring about change is going to be by engagement and understanding the viewpoints and the arguments of the other side." And so when I hear, for example, you know, folks on college campuses saying, "We're not going to allow somebody to speak on our campus because we disagree with their ideas or we feel threatened by their ideas —" you know, I think that's a recipe for dogmatism. And I think you're not going to be as effective. And so, but I want to be clear here 'cause, and it's a tough issue because, you know, there are two values that I care about.

I care about civil rights and I care about kids not being discriminated against or having swastikas painted on their doors or nooses hung — thinking it's a joke. I think it's entirely appropriate for — any institution, including universities, to say, "Don't walk around in blackface. It offends people. Don't wear a headdress and beat your chest if Native American students have said, you know, 'This hurts us. This bothers us." There's nothing wrong with that.

Sounds to me like he really doesn't support your position, Macky.

Obama, in this quote, and thank you for posting the WHOLE thing and not just the bolded part, is trying to have it both ways, so that the listener(s) can hear what they want to hear, ie that Obama is agreeing with them.


The bolded part is there so that you can think that Obama is agreeing with you. He knows that that is what you think of when you think about people who are tired of Political Correctness. You think that they want to be able to be rude, racist assholes and not care about who they offend.

THIS PART HERE,

"I want you also to be able to listen. I don't want you to think that a display of your strength is simply shutting other people up. And that part of your ability to bring about change is going to be by engagement and understanding the viewpoints and the arguments of the other side." And so when I hear, for example, you know, folks on college campuses saying, "We're not going to allow somebody to speak on our campus because we disagree with their ideas or we feel threatened by their ideas —" you know, I think that's a recipe for dogmatism."



Is where he gave Mac what Mac wanted to hear.

Mac thinks of Political Correctness as a tool to shout down, marginalize and suppress other voices and points of view.


The question is, which is the real Obama?

Actually, in this thread the question is, which view of Political Correctness and the way the accusation of Racism is used today is correct?

There ARE a few sports teams with Native American names were the fans dress up for games, and people complain.

There is also plenty of recent examples of "protestors" using various tactics from threats of lawsuits to literal bloody mob violence to shut down voices that they don't want to be heard.

Mac hears you when you talk about your view that that is what his anti-PCness is about.


You don't hear him when he says that that is NOT what he is about.

YOu don't seem to hear him when he talks about the use of PC to shut down voices and viewpoints.


And that is not something that just happens in him imagination.

It is seen quite often, and is a GROWING PROBLEM as seen most recently in San Jose.

Joe/Jake thinks that PC is about not being able to tell dirty jokes at work. I'm not kidding, he said it multiple times on this thread.

You can't reason with a binary mind like that, even with dozens of liberals -- including Obama -- in your supporting evidence. He just denies it all.

"I don't see it. I don't. It's not there. It's not."

His little world is very, very small and very, very quiet. And VERY angry.
.

I've been seeing that too.

It is a clever defense tactic by the Hard Left.

Joe doesn't even realize that he was told that this is what the problem is, by the same people who want to shut down opposing voices and viewpoints.

He accepts it without question.

If he doesn't see it, it doesn't exist.

Pretty easy to maintain an opinion with your eyes closed.
.

 

[JoeB131]

This is a perfect example of my point about you: "If I don't see it, it doesn't exist".

All the material you need to educate yourself has been provided, far MORE than you'd EVER need, and YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE IT.

So really, you've got nothing, then. And that's the way you like it.

Well, uh, no, guy. I ignore spammed crap with people with agendas.

What I haven't heard yet is what you aren't allowed to talk about because of "the PC Police" you seem to think are hiding under your bed.

some Frat Boy getting called to the Chancellor's office for wearing blackface isn't it.

 

[JoeB131]

I've been seeing that too.

It is a clever defense tactic by the Hard Left.

Joe doesn't even realize that he was told that this is what the problem is, by the same people who want to shut down opposing voices and viewpoints.

He accepts it without question.

Except no one is shutting you down. Sweet Evil Jesus, you guys JUST NOMINATED A FUCKING NAZI.

I wish calling racists on their racism shut them down.

 

[JoeB131]

The Nazis were told that the people they were fighting against were Evil too.

They were told that that Jews were their enemy and had betrayed them and were out to get them.

That is what you have been told about Trump and trump supporters.

The nazi's felt their violence was justified.

You believe your side's violence is justified.

Justified? No. Excepted. Yes. When you villify people and threaten them, THEY WILL FIGHT BACK.

The moment Trump claimed that the Judge was biased against him he proved nothing.

The fact that you never considered for a single second that perhaps the HIspanic, Democratic appointed Judge might be biased against the person you consider a "nazi" shows that you are to biased to even THINK about this at all, let alone think objectively.

Well, first, this Judge wasn't Democratically appointed. He was appointed by Arnold Schwarzenegger and then nominated by President Bush the Dumber to the Federal Bench.

There's no other interpretation. Trump is a Nazi who just got slapped down, and his first reaction was to attack the man's ethnicity.

You've been told he is a Nazi.

Sending people home to Mexico, is not sending them to Death Camps.

You have been lied to.

Sending people anywhere they don't want based on their ethnicity is being a Nazi.

 

[Mac1958]

This is a perfect example of my point about you: "If I don't see it, it doesn't exist".

All the material you need to educate yourself has been provided, far MORE than you'd EVER need, and YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE IT.

So really, you've got nothing, then. And that's the way you like it.

Well, uh, no, guy. I ignore spammed crap with people with agendas.

What I haven't heard yet is what you aren't allowed to talk about because of "the PC Police" you seem to think are hiding under your bed.

some Frat Boy getting called to the Chancellor's office for wearing blackface isn't it.

It's all there, Joe. All of the ramifications of PC. How it destroys communication. How it retards progress. How it enables destructive behaviors. How it divides people. How it hurts people.

Just admit it. You don't want to know.

Just say it.
.

 

[JoeB131]

It's all there, Joe. All of the ramifications of PC. How it destroys communication. How it retards progress. How it enables destructive behaviors. How it divides people. How it hurts people.

Just admit it. You don't want to know.

Just say it.

I'm saying you haven't made a convincing argument that PC has cowed the racists when you guys just nominated a Nazi for President.

It would seem to be quite the opposite. Even though this sort of racist shit should have no place in polite conversation, it still does.

 

[Mac1958]

It's all there, Joe. All of the ramifications of PC. How it destroys communication. How it retards progress. How it enables destructive behaviors. How it divides people. How it hurts people.

Just admit it. You don't want to know.

Just say it.

I'm saying you haven't made a convincing argument that PC has cowed the racists when you guys just nominated a Nazi for President.

It would seem to be quite the opposite. Even though this sort of racist shit should have no place in polite conversation, it still does.

I already know that nothing I say will convince you, Joe. Nothing. I know you folks are.

That's why I so gleefully provide a nice, long list of honest liberals, and rub your nose in their honesty.

Rub rub rub!

Hopefully at some point you'll stop humping my leg on this.
.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Is Marilyn Mosby the stupidest most corrupt politiician in America? Heck no, that's Hillary Clinton. But she's a class by her own. Choosing to prosecute officers in the Freddie Gray despite any evidence of wrong doing. She's lost 2 cases already but that hasnt deterred her from trying a third one.
She needs to be Nifonged out of office forever.

someone is going to get held accountable for Grey's death, dude. deal with it.

She's already lost 2 or three cases. SO who is going to be held accountable?

The case involves blacks and whites. Who is this racism targeting?

 

[Correll]

I've been seeing that too.

It is a clever defense tactic by the Hard Left.

Joe doesn't even realize that he was told that this is what the problem is, by the same people who want to shut down opposing voices and viewpoints.

He accepts it without question.

Except no one is shutting you down. Sweet Evil Jesus, you guys JUST NOMINATED A FUCKING NAZI.

I wish calling racists on their racism shut them down.

It is as absurd to pretend that Trump is a Nazi as it was for Nazis to pretend that Jews were responsible for their losing WWI.


Sending people HOME is not the same as committing Genocide on them.


YOUR side is the one with Brownshirts mobbing people in the streets to suppress political opposition.

 

[Correll]

The Nazis were told that the people they were fighting against were Evil too.

They were told that that Jews were their enemy and had betrayed them and were out to get them.

That is what you have been told about Trump and trump supporters.

The nazi's felt their violence was justified.

You believe your side's violence is justified.

Justified? No. Excepted. Yes. When you villify people and threaten them, THEY WILL FIGHT BACK.

The moment Trump claimed that the Judge was biased against him he proved nothing.

The fact that you never considered for a single second that perhaps the HIspanic, Democratic appointed Judge might be biased against the person you consider a "nazi" shows that you are to biased to even THINK about this at all, let alone think objectively.

Well, first, this Judge wasn't Democratically appointed. He was appointed by Arnold Schwarzenegger and then nominated by President Bush the Dumber to the Federal Bench.

There's no other interpretation. Trump is a Nazi who just got slapped down, and his first reaction was to attack the man's ethnicity.

You've been told he is a Nazi.

Sending people home to Mexico, is not sending them to Death Camps.

You have been lied to.

Sending people anywhere they don't want based on their ethnicity is being a Nazi.

1. YOur side is the one calling people Nazis. Your side is the one vilifying people. Your side is dong more than threaten. Your side has already moved up to mobbing them in the streets, and you support it.

2. There are plenty of other interpretations. Such as the possibility that the Judge, feels like you do, that Trump is a "nazi" and that he is thus biased against Trump. And that, thus Trump is right.

3. Sending people HOME based on their legal status is not being a Nazi. Indeed, sending them home based on their ethnicity would still not be worthy of being called a Nazi. You should save the term Nazi for people that want to commit genocide.

 

[Correll]

This is a perfect example of my point about you: "If I don't see it, it doesn't exist".

All the material you need to educate yourself has been provided, far MORE than you'd EVER need, and YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE IT.

So really, you've got nothing, then. And that's the way you like it.

Well, uh, no, guy. I ignore spammed crap with people with agendas.

What I haven't heard yet is what you aren't allowed to talk about because of "the PC Police" you seem to think are hiding under your bed.

some Frat Boy getting called to the Chancellor's office for wearing blackface isn't it.

It's all there, Joe. All of the ramifications of PC. How it destroys communication. How it retards progress. How it enables destructive behaviors. How it divides people. How it hurts people.

Just admit it. You don't want to know.

Just say it.
.

i haven't been giving him links. I've been explaining my position and viewpoints and reasoning very clearly and respectfully.


And he just dismissed me, pretty much the same as he is dismissing you.


His mind is completely closed, as you say.

As to enabling destructive behavior, he is supporting the use of political violence as a campaign tool, because he has been told that his enemies are nazis.

 

[Correll]

It's all there, Joe. All of the ramifications of PC. How it destroys communication. How it retards progress. How it enables destructive behaviors. How it divides people. How it hurts people.

Just admit it. You don't want to know.

Just say it.

I'm saying you haven't made a convincing argument that PC has cowed the racists when you guys just nominated a Nazi for President.

It would seem to be quite the opposite. Even though this sort of racist shit should have no place in polite conversation, it still does.

Actually, your reflexive calling people Nazis, without any real justification is what should not have a place in polite conversation.

 

[JoeB131]

It is as absurd to pretend that Trump is a Nazi as it was for Nazis to pretend that Jews were responsible for their losing WWI.

You mean other than the Jewish politicians who actually did convince the Kaiser to abdicate? Or the Jewish Communists who encourage the Keil Mutiny that brought about Germany's collapse. The Nazis didn't invent the "Stabbed in the back myth" any more than Trumpenfuhrer invented the Minuteman Movement.

Sending people HOME is not the same as committing Genocide on them.

YOUR side is the one with Brownshirts mobbing people in the streets to suppress political opposition.

strikes me that deporting people from their homes and sending them somewhere they have no relation to at this point in their lives is a pretty Nazi thing to do. Hitler's A plan was to send all the Jews to Palestine.

Sorry, guy Trump is a Nazi. Deal with it.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, your reflexive calling people Nazis, without any real justification is what should not have a place in polite conversation.

Uh, let's see.

Hitler blamed the Jews and Slavs for Germany's problems.
Trump blames the Mexicans and Muslims.

Trump is a Nazi. Deal with it.

 

[JoeB131]

1. YOur side is the one calling people Nazis. Your side is the one vilifying people. Your side is dong more than threaten. Your side has already moved up to mobbing them in the streets, and you support it.

Yes, when you threaten people, THEY WILL FIGHT BACK. Trump escalated this past just "illegals" when he started ranting about how the "Mexican" judge is out to get him.

2. There are plenty of other interpretations. Such as the possibility that the Judge, feels like you do, that Trump is a "nazi" and that he is thus biased against Trump. And that, thus Trump is right.

Except Trump hasn't made THAT argument in court, and never will. Because any lawyer who went in and made that argument in court would be disbarred for doing so. Reality is, the judge made a completely proper ruling that the statements of ex-Trump U employees - you know the ones who said they were SPECIFICALLY ordered to defraud and target economically vulnerable people - could be released to the press.

And here's the thing. Trump actually took a bad situation and made it worse. The unfavorable press over Trump U would have probably blown over by now, but by attacking this American-born judge as being a Mexican, a lot of Republicans are having second thoughts about a contested convention.

Do you really want that kind of recklessness running the military, CIA, IRS, FBI, ATF? I don't.

3. Sending people HOME based on their legal status is not being a Nazi. Indeed, sending them home based on their ethnicity would still not be worthy of being called a Nazi. You should save the term Nazi for people that want to commit genocide.

Hitler hadn't killed anyone yet by 1933. He was still a Nazi. Here's a crazy idea. How about we STOP the Nazi before he kills anyone?

i haven't been giving him links. I've been explaining my position and viewpoints and reasoning very clearly and respectfully.

I will give you credit for explaining your position, instead of whining about imaginary PC Police who are keeping him down like Macky does, but never produces an example of how the PC police have kept him down.

"Someone complained about hats once!" Why, that's the same as McCarthyism, to be sure, Mackie.

 

[Correll]

It is as absurd to pretend that Trump is a Nazi as it was for Nazis to pretend that Jews were responsible for their losing WWI.

You mean other than the Jewish politicians who actually did convince the Kaiser to abdicate? Or the Jewish Communists who encourage the Keil Mutiny that brought about Germany's collapse. The Nazis didn't invent the "Stabbed in the back myth" any more than Trumpenfuhrer invented the Minuteman Movement.

Sending people HOME is not the same as committing Genocide on them.

YOUR side is the one with Brownshirts mobbing people in the streets to suppress political opposition.

strikes me that deporting people from their homes and sending them somewhere they have no relation to at this point in their lives is a pretty Nazi thing to do. Hitler's A plan was to send all the Jews to Palestine.

Sorry, guy Trump is a Nazi. Deal with it.

1. Are you seriously defending the Nazi idea that the Jews were responsible for their losing WWI, in the same thread you are calling OTHER people Nazis?

2. All illegals have a relation to the nations they are citizens of.

 

[Correll]

Actually, your reflexive calling people Nazis, without any real justification is what should not have a place in polite conversation.

Uh, let's see.

Hitler blamed the Jews and Slavs for Germany's problems.
Trump blames the Mexicans and Muslims.

Trump is a Nazi. Deal with it.

Because once a long time ago, one bad man lied about other people causing problems, does not mean that other people NEVER cause problems.

 

[Mac1958]

1. YOur side is the one calling people Nazis. Your side is the one vilifying people. Your side is dong more than threaten. Your side has already moved up to mobbing them in the streets, and you support it.

Yes, when you threaten people, THEY WILL FIGHT BACK. Trump escalated this past just "illegals" when he started ranting about how the "Mexican" judge is out to get him.

2. There are plenty of other interpretations. Such as the possibility that the Judge, feels like you do, that Trump is a "nazi" and that he is thus biased against Trump. And that, thus Trump is right.

Except Trump hasn't made THAT argument in court, and never will. Because any lawyer who went in and made that argument in court would be disbarred for doing so. Reality is, the judge made a completely proper ruling that the statements of ex-Trump U employees - you know the ones who said they were SPECIFICALLY ordered to defraud and target economically vulnerable people - could be released to the press.

And here's the thing. Trump actually took a bad situation and made it worse. The unfavorable press over Trump U would have probably blown over by now, but by attacking this American-born judge as being a Mexican, a lot of Republicans are having second thoughts about a contested convention.

Do you really want that kind of recklessness running the military, CIA, IRS, FBI, ATF? I don't.

3. Sending people HOME based on their legal status is not being a Nazi. Indeed, sending them home based on their ethnicity would still not be worthy of being called a Nazi. You should save the term Nazi for people that want to commit genocide.

Hitler hadn't killed anyone yet by 1933. He was still a Nazi. Here's a crazy idea. How about we STOP the Nazi before he kills anyone?

i haven't been giving him links. I've been explaining my position and viewpoints and reasoning very clearly and respectfully.

I will give you credit for explaining your position, instead of whining about imaginary PC Police who are keeping him down like Macky does, but never produces an example of how the PC police have kept him down.

"Someone complained about hats once!" Why, that's the same as McCarthyism, to be sure, Mackie.

Another example of how Joe simply cannot be honest.

Joe, I'll try to make this as clear as I can: In my 25,000+ posts, you will not be able to point to one (1) in which I said anyone is "holding me down", yet you claim that I say it. The fact that you simply cannot be honest tells me you know your position is weak. And since you lie with such regularity and frequency, I think at some level you know how dishonest you are in general.

And again, we both know you won't read what those honest liberals are saying because YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW.

YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW. So you hide from them like a little boy avoiding a spanking from Daddy.

There are many personality types on this board, Joe, but I think you're the most miserable.
.

 

[Correll]

1. YOur side is the one calling people Nazis. Your side is the one vilifying people. Your side is dong more than threaten. Your side has already moved up to mobbing them in the streets, and you support it.

Yes, when you threaten people, THEY WILL FIGHT BACK. Trump escalated this past just "illegals" when he started ranting about how the "Mexican" judge is out to get him.

2. There are plenty of other interpretations. Such as the possibility that the Judge, feels like you do, that Trump is a "nazi" and that he is thus biased against Trump. And that, thus Trump is right.

Except Trump hasn't made THAT argument in court, and never will. Because any lawyer who went in and made that argument in court would be disbarred for doing so. Reality is, the judge made a completely proper ruling that the statements of ex-Trump U employees - you know the ones who said they were SPECIFICALLY ordered to defraud and target economically vulnerable people - could be released to the press.

And here's the thing. Trump actually took a bad situation and made it worse. The unfavorable press over Trump U would have probably blown over by now, but by attacking this American-born judge as being a Mexican, a lot of Republicans are having second thoughts about a contested convention.

Do you really want that kind of recklessness running the military, CIA, IRS, FBI, ATF? I don't.

3. Sending people HOME based on their legal status is not being a Nazi. Indeed, sending them home based on their ethnicity would still not be worthy of being called a Nazi. You should save the term Nazi for people that want to commit genocide.

Hitler hadn't killed anyone yet by 1933. He was still a Nazi. Here's a crazy idea. How about we STOP the Nazi before he kills anyone?

i haven't been giving him links. I've been explaining my position and viewpoints and reasoning very clearly and respectfully.

I will give you credit for explaining your position, instead of whining about imaginary PC Police who are keeping him down like Macky does, but never produces an example of how the PC police have kept him down.

"Someone complained about hats once!" Why, that's the same as McCarthyism, to be sure, Mackie.

1. Claiming that a judge is biased against you is not escalating anything.

2. The fact that he hasn't made that argument in court does not mean it isn't true.

3. Actually in 1933 the Nazi had been violent street thugs for many years, and had already tried a coup at one point. Trump has had a reality tv show. I can see the similarities. NOT!

4. Would you like a link to an example of "pc police" shutting down their enemies political speech?