When has socialism ever worked?

[GWV5903]

You haven't a clue have you? I mean, seriously....

Enlighten us, please…

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

View attachment 558357

 

[bripat9643]

The only decent parts of any society are the socialist parts, like public transportations systems, public school, the post office, libraries, non-profit hospitals, churches, fire fighters, police, defense, etc.
The capitalist parts are evil aspects that lie, cheat, steal, etc.

What's decent about organized plunder?

 

[bripat9643]

Every country that murders people always does it for profit, which is capitalism.
These is never an incentive to murder people under socialism, where profits do not matter.

What profit did we earn for saving the world from the NAZIs?

 

[bripat9643]

That is silly because every democratic republic always chooses to implement socialism as its economic system.
If you think there is any contradiction between socialism and a democratic republic, you are wrong.

I agree. That's why I despise democracy. As H.L. Mencken once said: an election is a present auction on future goods.

 

[bripat9643]

Venezuela is one of the least socialist countries in the world, and is the remnants of Spanish imperialism and colonialism.
The US also created a reactionary military elite in Venezuela.

The oil in Venezuela is not light sweet, but thick tar sands that is very hard to extract.
The US embargoes Venezuela, so they are having trouble getting broken equipment fixed.

You have to be joking.

 

[Dr Grump]

Enlighten us, please…

It needs explaining to you?

 

[Soupnazi630]

No, communism is where people voluntarily pool resources so that they can collectively create communal means of production they can cooperatively share.
That amount of mutual possession can't possibly be considered without a democratic representation and protection of individual rights.
And what you have in Russia and China were Stalinism, where the main goal was accumulation of wealth for the elite.
That is exactly capitalism, but since it was done by abusing the government coercion, it was state captialism.
Was wealth shared communally?
No.
So then it can't be communism.

Wrong.

Communism is authoritarian and forced on people placing themm in a state of slavery.It is never about communal sharing.

What you havde in china and had in the USSR was communism/

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Well, "socialism" sure worked for Bernie, didn't it? Made him downright rich without him having to work a day in his life, it did.


Thus is revealed the many allures of socialism.

 

[Dr Grump]

What you havde in china and had in the USSR was communism/

No they are not. I'm pretty confident there have been no Communist states, ever. A lot spruiking Communism. A lot claiming to be Communist. However, if you look at Marx and Engels wrote and discussed, what those countries had/have is/was not Communism. Totalitarian regimes the lot of them. I guess they had aspects of Communism in that the govt owned everything. However, the vast majority of what Marx and Engels wrote about was/has not been embraced by these regimes.

Communism itself is a nice idea, but doomed to failure. Human nature just doesn't sit well with it.

 

[Lesh]

No they are not. I'm pretty confident there have been no Communist states, ever. A lot spruiking Communism. A lot claiming to be Communist. However, if you look at Marx and Engels wrote and discussed, what those countries had/have is/was not Communism. Totalitarian regimes the lot of them. I guess they had aspects of Communism in that the govt owned everything. However, the vast majority of what Marx and Engels wrote about was/has not been embraced by these regimes.

Communism itself is a nice idea, but doomed to failure. Human nature just doesn't sit well with it.

And socialism isn't communism. And no socialist country ever devolved into communism

 

[GWV5903]

It needs explaining to you?

Your version? Yes…

 

[dudmuck]

Wrong.

Communism is authoritarian and forced on people placing themm in a state of slavery.It is never about communal sharing.

What you havde in china and had in the USSR was communism/

was communism?
USSR and China have devolved into state capitalism, which means there is still the employee - employer relationship, just with the state as the employer.

Marx ideology was about a temporary dictatorship, but power corrupts, hence we had stalinism, maoism, and other murderous tyrants.

North Korea, vietnam, china, laos, cuba all claim to be communist, but they all have drifted away. North Korea's primary ideology is self reliance; they called it "Juche", and it would impress the Koch Brothers. Vietnam, Laos, and China all have ultra wealthy people. Only Cuba comes close to marxism, but even that has secret wealthy.

 

[blackhawk]

Democrats have become ardent supporters of socialism...just look at the collapse of USSR in 1989, and China? Is THAT a political model we want?

It works just not for those they claim it works for.

 

[Colin norris]

Really? You admire "powerful countries" like China and Russia?
Powerful governments that took away personal freedoms of their citizens.
Be careful what you say over there, Colon.

I never said I admired them so don't distort things.
I don't recall China ever being democratic
and Russia always seemed to be under some despot or oligarch.

Maybe you could point to your evidence to prove otherwise.

 

[jackflash]

Democrats have become ardent supporters of socialism...just look at the collapse of USSR in 1989, and China? Is THAT a political model we want?

Nasty nazi Germany was the most successful(though short lived) example of socialism so far on planet earth. The nutcies managed to pull Germany's devastated economy out of the punitive Versailles treaty of 1919 by a massive increase in military production. Unfortunately this came @ QUITE A PRICE for Europe in general as by April of 1945 18 million+ innocent civilians from all stripes had been murdered by the knotcies. Some estimates range as high as 22-23 million European civilians had been murdered. The preceding number does NOT include murdered soviet POW's(around 5 million or so). Socialism, don't leave sanity without it!

 

[Soupnazi630]

was communism?
USSR and China have devolved into state capitalism, which means there is still the employee - employer relationship, just with the state as the employer.

Marx ideology was about a temporary dictatorship, but power corrupts, hence we had stalinism, maoism, and other murderous tyrants.

North Korea, vietnam, china, laos, cuba all claim to be communist, but they all have drifted away. North Korea's primary ideology is self reliance; they called it "Juche", and it would impress the Koch Brothers. Vietnam, Laos, and China all have ultra wealthy people. Only Cuba comes close to marxism, but even that has secret wealthy.

They are all communist according to Marx Ideology. The state employer was in fact the temporary dictatorship. Even Marx acknowledged that the temporary part was very vague. It could mean years or even centuries. So long as the dictatorship is giving a nod and a wink at eventually fading away it is still communism.

 

[Soupnazi630]

No they are not. I'm pretty confident there have been no Communist states, ever. A lot spruiking Communism. A lot claiming to be Communist. However, if you look at Marx and Engels wrote and discussed, what those countries had/have is/was not Communism. Totalitarian regimes the lot of them. I guess they had aspects of Communism in that the govt owned everything. However, the vast majority of what Marx and Engels wrote about was/has not been embraced by these regimes.

Communism itself is a nice idea, but doomed to failure. Human nature just doesn't sit well with it.

Yes they were or are. Yes the USSR was and China is communism exactly as Marx and Engels described. Communism is precisely about a totalitarian regime which is required by Marx/Engels for a a temporary but unspecified amount of time.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Personally I think communism is possible, but it likely would have to be very decentralized.
But it does not matter.
The world is extremely hostile and competitive, so then the innovations of capitalism likely seems necessary.


Humans normally always lived in communal groups like large extended families.
Isolated nuclear families is not normal, but a way of life capitalists sold to make more profits off us.

Communism can never happen because as you saw in the Soviet Union and China and North Korea and scuba and other places the elites still do not share, so on a large scale it will never happen!

 

[Godboy]

In the past, schools used to be all private, and you hired private Pinkerton Security guards if you wanted police.
So the public schools and cops took over and made public, what previously have been private means of production.
The "means of production" is anything you can charge money for.

Tha fuck? Bro, the history of public services goes back thousands of years.